Texas - free markets

rumble_lion

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2011
22,080
5,258
1
I'm glad Texas is 100% free market, otherwise things could get weird.

Tesla is going to build cars in Austin Texas that they cannot legally sell to someone living in Texas.

Under Texas franchise laws, which are similar to those in most other states, automakers like Toyota and General Motors cannot sell you a car. They must sell their cars to independently owned third-party businesses that in turn sell them to Texans—you know, new-car dealerships.​
As it stands, Tesla’s company-owned outlets cannot legally sell a car in Texas, nor can the company “deliver” a car within the state even if bought by a Texan. Owners had regularly rallied against this soft ban as early as 2013. There are workarounds, some detailed on forums within Tesla’s own website. The company has more than a dozen Texas “galleries,” where cars can be viewed and described—though staffers may not discuss prices.​
Any Texan can go online and order a Tesla through the company’s website. But no orders may be placed or processed within any Texas facility owned by Tesla. One buyer noted his paperwork had been FedExed to and from a Tesla Store in Nevada for completion.​
Once ordered, the vehicle is shipped to one of Tesla’s eight Texas service centers. The buyer must first pay for it online (from outside the facility grounds), and can then drive it away—meaning Tesla has not actually “delivered” the car to a buyer, but simply made it available to be “picked up” by an existing owner.​
Texas is quite happy to register it and collect sales tax on the purchase, of course.​
At last, change was expected by many in 2021 because the backdrop to the state’s legislative session was substantially different than it was in 2019. Following a highly publicized site search for its second U.S. vehicle assembly plant, the company announced in July 2020 it had chosen Austin, Texas. That Austin plant is now well into construction, and production of the Tesla Cybertruck and other EVs is to start within the next 12 months. Tesla has posted hundreds of job openings, and said it hopes to employ 5,000 people.​
Most of the auto industry presumed that in exchange for dropping a billion dollars or so into the Texas economy, Tesla had extracted a promise or a handshake deal that the ban on selling its vehicles would be lifted. Otherwise, it was noted at the time, Tesla would face the peculiar prospect of having to ship all Texas-built vehicles out of the state—even those to be delivered to buyers within five miles of its new plant. No way that would actually happen, right?​
On March 12, State Representative Cody Harris [R-District 8] introduced HB 4379, a bill that would have essentially permitted Tesla to deliver electric cars in the state. The bill crafted a narrow exception to the dealer franchise law that would allow automakers to sell cars directly in Texas if they solely built battery-electric vehicles and never maintained franchised distributors in Texas. Only Tesla and a handful of EV startups fit that description.​
HB 4379 was finally heard by the House Transportation Committee on May 11, two months after it was filed by Rep. Harris. That was a win, of sorts: Earlier versions of the bill in previous sessions hadn’t even gotten that far. Sadly for Tesla, that’s where it ended; the hearing was simply the first of seven steps that must occur within 140 days for a bill to become law in Texas. But the bill was not passed out of committee by the deadline of May 13, meaning it will progress no further. The direct-sale ban will remain in place.​
A different EV bill, HB 2221, filed by Transportation Committee chair Terry Canales [D-District 40] was voted out of committee. The “Electric Transportation Act” has five ambitious goals to spur EV usage in Texas, but it stalled after that step.​
Jeff Carlson, Harris’s chief of staff, was simply pleased HB 4379 got its committee hearing in the first place: “That’s a big deal,” he said. He expressed confidence the testimony would “open some eyes” in the state to the positive attributes of allowing direct EV sales. He suggested such sales would be “the future of the state,” which might well like to attract other EV makers once Tesla has opened its plant. He also pointed out that the outcome reflects the way the Texas Legislature is designed to operate. “It’s a process built to kill bills, not to pass them,” Carlson said.​
So another bill to exempt Tesla (and other direct-sale automakers) will have to be introduced two years hence, and the process will start all over again.​
 

LionDeNittany

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
45,263
19,523
1
DFW, TX
I'm glad Texas is 100% free market, otherwise things could get weird.

Tesla is going to build cars in Austin Texas that they cannot legally sell to someone living in Texas.

Under Texas franchise laws, which are similar to those in most other states, automakers like Toyota and General Motors cannot sell you a car. They must sell their cars to independently owned third-party businesses that in turn sell them to Texans—you know, new-car dealerships.​
As it stands, Tesla’s company-owned outlets cannot legally sell a car in Texas, nor can the company “deliver” a car within the state even if bought by a Texan. Owners had regularly rallied against this soft ban as early as 2013. There are workarounds, some detailed on forums within Tesla’s own website. The company has more than a dozen Texas “galleries,” where cars can be viewed and described—though staffers may not discuss prices.​
Any Texan can go online and order a Tesla through the company’s website. But no orders may be placed or processed within any Texas facility owned by Tesla. One buyer noted his paperwork had been FedExed to and from a Tesla Store in Nevada for completion.​
Once ordered, the vehicle is shipped to one of Tesla’s eight Texas service centers. The buyer must first pay for it online (from outside the facility grounds), and can then drive it away—meaning Tesla has not actually “delivered” the car to a buyer, but simply made it available to be “picked up” by an existing owner.​
Texas is quite happy to register it and collect sales tax on the purchase, of course.​
At last, change was expected by many in 2021 because the backdrop to the state’s legislative session was substantially different than it was in 2019. Following a highly publicized site search for its second U.S. vehicle assembly plant, the company announced in July 2020 it had chosen Austin, Texas. That Austin plant is now well into construction, and production of the Tesla Cybertruck and other EVs is to start within the next 12 months. Tesla has posted hundreds of job openings, and said it hopes to employ 5,000 people.​
Most of the auto industry presumed that in exchange for dropping a billion dollars or so into the Texas economy, Tesla had extracted a promise or a handshake deal that the ban on selling its vehicles would be lifted. Otherwise, it was noted at the time, Tesla would face the peculiar prospect of having to ship all Texas-built vehicles out of the state—even those to be delivered to buyers within five miles of its new plant. No way that would actually happen, right?​
On March 12, State Representative Cody Harris [R-District 8] introduced HB 4379, a bill that would have essentially permitted Tesla to deliver electric cars in the state. The bill crafted a narrow exception to the dealer franchise law that would allow automakers to sell cars directly in Texas if they solely built battery-electric vehicles and never maintained franchised distributors in Texas. Only Tesla and a handful of EV startups fit that description.​
HB 4379 was finally heard by the House Transportation Committee on May 11, two months after it was filed by Rep. Harris. That was a win, of sorts: Earlier versions of the bill in previous sessions hadn’t even gotten that far. Sadly for Tesla, that’s where it ended; the hearing was simply the first of seven steps that must occur within 140 days for a bill to become law in Texas. But the bill was not passed out of committee by the deadline of May 13, meaning it will progress no further. The direct-sale ban will remain in place.​
A different EV bill, HB 2221, filed by Transportation Committee chair Terry Canales [D-District 40] was voted out of committee. The “Electric Transportation Act” has five ambitious goals to spur EV usage in Texas, but it stalled after that step.​
Jeff Carlson, Harris’s chief of staff, was simply pleased HB 4379 got its committee hearing in the first place: “That’s a big deal,” he said. He expressed confidence the testimony would “open some eyes” in the state to the positive attributes of allowing direct EV sales. He suggested such sales would be “the future of the state,” which might well like to attract other EV makers once Tesla has opened its plant. He also pointed out that the outcome reflects the way the Texas Legislature is designed to operate. “It’s a process built to kill bills, not to pass them,” Carlson said.​
So another bill to exempt Tesla (and other direct-sale automakers) will have to be introduced two years hence, and the process will start all over again.​

What is your complaint here?
 

LioninHouston

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Dec 12, 2005
26,424
39,703
1
I'm glad Texas is 100% free market, otherwise things could get weird.

Tesla is going to build cars in Austin Texas that they cannot legally sell to someone living in Texas.

Under Texas franchise laws, which are similar to those in most other states, automakers like Toyota and General Motors cannot sell you a car. They must sell their cars to independently owned third-party businesses that in turn sell them to Texans—you know, new-car dealerships.​
As it stands, Tesla’s company-owned outlets cannot legally sell a car in Texas, nor can the company “deliver” a car within the state even if bought by a Texan. Owners had regularly rallied against this soft ban as early as 2013. There are workarounds, some detailed on forums within Tesla’s own website. The company has more than a dozen Texas “galleries,” where cars can be viewed and described—though staffers may not discuss prices.​
Any Texan can go online and order a Tesla through the company’s website. But no orders may be placed or processed within any Texas facility owned by Tesla. One buyer noted his paperwork had been FedExed to and from a Tesla Store in Nevada for completion.​
Once ordered, the vehicle is shipped to one of Tesla’s eight Texas service centers. The buyer must first pay for it online (from outside the facility grounds), and can then drive it away—meaning Tesla has not actually “delivered” the car to a buyer, but simply made it available to be “picked up” by an existing owner.​
Texas is quite happy to register it and collect sales tax on the purchase, of course.​
At last, change was expected by many in 2021 because the backdrop to the state’s legislative session was substantially different than it was in 2019. Following a highly publicized site search for its second U.S. vehicle assembly plant, the company announced in July 2020 it had chosen Austin, Texas. That Austin plant is now well into construction, and production of the Tesla Cybertruck and other EVs is to start within the next 12 months. Tesla has posted hundreds of job openings, and said it hopes to employ 5,000 people.​
Most of the auto industry presumed that in exchange for dropping a billion dollars or so into the Texas economy, Tesla had extracted a promise or a handshake deal that the ban on selling its vehicles would be lifted. Otherwise, it was noted at the time, Tesla would face the peculiar prospect of having to ship all Texas-built vehicles out of the state—even those to be delivered to buyers within five miles of its new plant. No way that would actually happen, right?​
On March 12, State Representative Cody Harris [R-District 8] introduced HB 4379, a bill that would have essentially permitted Tesla to deliver electric cars in the state. The bill crafted a narrow exception to the dealer franchise law that would allow automakers to sell cars directly in Texas if they solely built battery-electric vehicles and never maintained franchised distributors in Texas. Only Tesla and a handful of EV startups fit that description.​
HB 4379 was finally heard by the House Transportation Committee on May 11, two months after it was filed by Rep. Harris. That was a win, of sorts: Earlier versions of the bill in previous sessions hadn’t even gotten that far. Sadly for Tesla, that’s where it ended; the hearing was simply the first of seven steps that must occur within 140 days for a bill to become law in Texas. But the bill was not passed out of committee by the deadline of May 13, meaning it will progress no further. The direct-sale ban will remain in place.​
A different EV bill, HB 2221, filed by Transportation Committee chair Terry Canales [D-District 40] was voted out of committee. The “Electric Transportation Act” has five ambitious goals to spur EV usage in Texas, but it stalled after that step.​
Jeff Carlson, Harris’s chief of staff, was simply pleased HB 4379 got its committee hearing in the first place: “That’s a big deal,” he said. He expressed confidence the testimony would “open some eyes” in the state to the positive attributes of allowing direct EV sales. He suggested such sales would be “the future of the state,” which might well like to attract other EV makers once Tesla has opened its plant. He also pointed out that the outcome reflects the way the Texas Legislature is designed to operate. “It’s a process built to kill bills, not to pass them,” Carlson said.​
So another bill to exempt Tesla (and other direct-sale automakers) will have to be introduced two years hence, and the process will start all over again.​
Texans can’t buy a Tesla?

giphy.gif
 

Hotshoe

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Feb 15, 2012
25,618
41,539
1
I'm glad Texas is 100% free market, otherwise things could get weird.

Tesla is going to build cars in Austin Texas that they cannot legally sell to someone living in Texas.

Under Texas franchise laws, which are similar to those in most other states, automakers like Toyota and General Motors cannot sell you a car. They must sell their cars to independently owned third-party businesses that in turn sell them to Texans—you know, new-car dealerships.​
As it stands, Tesla’s company-owned outlets cannot legally sell a car in Texas, nor can the company “deliver” a car within the state even if bought by a Texan. Owners had regularly rallied against this soft ban as early as 2013. There are workarounds, some detailed on forums within Tesla’s own website. The company has more than a dozen Texas “galleries,” where cars can be viewed and described—though staffers may not discuss prices.​
Any Texan can go online and order a Tesla through the company’s website. But no orders may be placed or processed within any Texas facility owned by Tesla. One buyer noted his paperwork had been FedExed to and from a Tesla Store in Nevada for completion.​
Once ordered, the vehicle is shipped to one of Tesla’s eight Texas service centers. The buyer must first pay for it online (from outside the facility grounds), and can then drive it away—meaning Tesla has not actually “delivered” the car to a buyer, but simply made it available to be “picked up” by an existing owner.​
Texas is quite happy to register it and collect sales tax on the purchase, of course.​
At last, change was expected by many in 2021 because the backdrop to the state’s legislative session was substantially different than it was in 2019. Following a highly publicized site search for its second U.S. vehicle assembly plant, the company announced in July 2020 it had chosen Austin, Texas. That Austin plant is now well into construction, and production of the Tesla Cybertruck and other EVs is to start within the next 12 months. Tesla has posted hundreds of job openings, and said it hopes to employ 5,000 people.​
Most of the auto industry presumed that in exchange for dropping a billion dollars or so into the Texas economy, Tesla had extracted a promise or a handshake deal that the ban on selling its vehicles would be lifted. Otherwise, it was noted at the time, Tesla would face the peculiar prospect of having to ship all Texas-built vehicles out of the state—even those to be delivered to buyers within five miles of its new plant. No way that would actually happen, right?​
On March 12, State Representative Cody Harris [R-District 8] introduced HB 4379, a bill that would have essentially permitted Tesla to deliver electric cars in the state. The bill crafted a narrow exception to the dealer franchise law that would allow automakers to sell cars directly in Texas if they solely built battery-electric vehicles and never maintained franchised distributors in Texas. Only Tesla and a handful of EV startups fit that description.​
HB 4379 was finally heard by the House Transportation Committee on May 11, two months after it was filed by Rep. Harris. That was a win, of sorts: Earlier versions of the bill in previous sessions hadn’t even gotten that far. Sadly for Tesla, that’s where it ended; the hearing was simply the first of seven steps that must occur within 140 days for a bill to become law in Texas. But the bill was not passed out of committee by the deadline of May 13, meaning it will progress no further. The direct-sale ban will remain in place.​
A different EV bill, HB 2221, filed by Transportation Committee chair Terry Canales [D-District 40] was voted out of committee. The “Electric Transportation Act” has five ambitious goals to spur EV usage in Texas, but it stalled after that step.​
Jeff Carlson, Harris’s chief of staff, was simply pleased HB 4379 got its committee hearing in the first place: “That’s a big deal,” he said. He expressed confidence the testimony would “open some eyes” in the state to the positive attributes of allowing direct EV sales. He suggested such sales would be “the future of the state,” which might well like to attract other EV makers once Tesla has opened its plant. He also pointed out that the outcome reflects the way the Texas Legislature is designed to operate. “It’s a process built to kill bills, not to pass them,” Carlson said.​
So another bill to exempt Tesla (and other direct-sale automakers) will have to be introduced two years hence, and the process will start all over again.​
Lmao. No state has a free market. Only 22 states allow direct sales of cars. But hey, you go. You go after Texas. You think that stopped Tesla from going there? You keep supporting those unions as well.
 

Obliviax

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Aug 21, 2001
107,164
56,027
1
I'm glad Texas is 100% free market, otherwise things could get weird.

Tesla is going to build cars in Austin Texas that they cannot legally sell to someone living in Texas.

Under Texas franchise laws, which are similar to those in most other states, automakers like Toyota and General Motors cannot sell you a car. They must sell their cars to independently owned third-party businesses that in turn sell them to Texans—you know, new-car dealerships.​
As it stands, Tesla’s company-owned outlets cannot legally sell a car in Texas, nor can the company “deliver” a car within the state even if bought by a Texan. Owners had regularly rallied against this soft ban as early as 2013. There are workarounds, some detailed on forums within Tesla’s own website. The company has more than a dozen Texas “galleries,” where cars can be viewed and described—though staffers may not discuss prices.​
Any Texan can go online and order a Tesla through the company’s website. But no orders may be placed or processed within any Texas facility owned by Tesla. One buyer noted his paperwork had been FedExed to and from a Tesla Store in Nevada for completion.​
Once ordered, the vehicle is shipped to one of Tesla’s eight Texas service centers. The buyer must first pay for it online (from outside the facility grounds), and can then drive it away—meaning Tesla has not actually “delivered” the car to a buyer, but simply made it available to be “picked up” by an existing owner.​
Texas is quite happy to register it and collect sales tax on the purchase, of course.​
At last, change was expected by many in 2021 because the backdrop to the state’s legislative session was substantially different than it was in 2019. Following a highly publicized site search for its second U.S. vehicle assembly plant, the company announced in July 2020 it had chosen Austin, Texas. That Austin plant is now well into construction, and production of the Tesla Cybertruck and other EVs is to start within the next 12 months. Tesla has posted hundreds of job openings, and said it hopes to employ 5,000 people.​
Most of the auto industry presumed that in exchange for dropping a billion dollars or so into the Texas economy, Tesla had extracted a promise or a handshake deal that the ban on selling its vehicles would be lifted. Otherwise, it was noted at the time, Tesla would face the peculiar prospect of having to ship all Texas-built vehicles out of the state—even those to be delivered to buyers within five miles of its new plant. No way that would actually happen, right?​
On March 12, State Representative Cody Harris [R-District 8] introduced HB 4379, a bill that would have essentially permitted Tesla to deliver electric cars in the state. The bill crafted a narrow exception to the dealer franchise law that would allow automakers to sell cars directly in Texas if they solely built battery-electric vehicles and never maintained franchised distributors in Texas. Only Tesla and a handful of EV startups fit that description.​
HB 4379 was finally heard by the House Transportation Committee on May 11, two months after it was filed by Rep. Harris. That was a win, of sorts: Earlier versions of the bill in previous sessions hadn’t even gotten that far. Sadly for Tesla, that’s where it ended; the hearing was simply the first of seven steps that must occur within 140 days for a bill to become law in Texas. But the bill was not passed out of committee by the deadline of May 13, meaning it will progress no further. The direct-sale ban will remain in place.​
A different EV bill, HB 2221, filed by Transportation Committee chair Terry Canales [D-District 40] was voted out of committee. The “Electric Transportation Act” has five ambitious goals to spur EV usage in Texas, but it stalled after that step.​
Jeff Carlson, Harris’s chief of staff, was simply pleased HB 4379 got its committee hearing in the first place: “That’s a big deal,” he said. He expressed confidence the testimony would “open some eyes” in the state to the positive attributes of allowing direct EV sales. He suggested such sales would be “the future of the state,” which might well like to attract other EV makers once Tesla has opened its plant. He also pointed out that the outcome reflects the way the Texas Legislature is designed to operate. “It’s a process built to kill bills, not to pass them,” Carlson said.​
So another bill to exempt Tesla (and other direct-sale automakers) will have to be introduced two years hence, and the process will start all over again.​
I ended at this statement "I'm glad Texas is 100% free market". Simply isn't true, you know that isn't true and you know nobody has ever made that claim. it is one of the freer markets, certainly freer than peer group states like NY and CA. So like LdN, I have no idea why you posted this.
 

bourbon n blues

Well-Known Member
Nov 20, 2019
20,501
23,608
1
I ended at this statement "I'm glad Texas is 100% free market". Simply isn't true, you know that isn't true and you know nobody has ever made that claim. it is one of the freer markets, certainly freer than peer group states like NY and CA. So like LdN, I have no idea why you posted this.
He's a partisan moron.
 

LionDeNittany

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
45,263
19,523
1
DFW, TX
I ended at this statement "I'm glad Texas is 100% free market". Simply isn't true, you know that isn't true and you know nobody has ever made that claim. it is one of the freer markets, certainly freer than peer group states like NY and CA. So like LdN, I have no idea why you posted this.

Yes. Exactly. And this isn't just an issue in TX. Most states have dealership rules.

LdN
 
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LioninHouston

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Dec 12, 2005
26,424
39,703
1
Most states don't host a billion dollar Tesla manufacturing plant.

Someone can get a job at the Texas Tesla factory building vehicles they cannot even buy in their own state.

Of course you guys don't think it's a big deal.
Texans are able to buy a Tesla. Again, please tell us when you are able to come up with any sort of point. We’ll give you all the time you need.
 

rumble_lion

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2011
22,080
5,258
1
Texans are able to buy a Tesla. Again, please tell us when you are able to come up with any sort of point. We’ll give you all the time you need.

Not without jumping through a bunch of hoops.

Why don't all vehicle sales have to follow same restrictions that Tesla has to follow? That sounds fair to me.
 

LionDeNittany

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
45,263
19,523
1
DFW, TX
Not without jumping through a bunch of hoops.

Why don't all vehicle sales have to follow same restrictions that Tesla has to follow? That sounds fair to me.

There are tons of Teslas in TX.
Musk decided to bypass the dealership structure when he built Tesla for cost reasons.

Just because he doesnt want to have dealerships doesnt mean states need to change their laws.

California had the same issue.

LdN
 
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LioninHouston

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Dec 12, 2005
26,424
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Not without jumping through a bunch of hoops.

Why don't all vehicle sales have to follow same restrictions that Tesla has to follow? That sounds fair to me.
I know a few people who purchased them without much trouble. We got the jobs, so who gives a shit. Texas wins. I’ll ask again, what point were you trying to make?

Crap, I almost forgot! Don’t forget to tell everyone you know that Texas sucks, so they won’t move here.
 

Obliviax

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Aug 21, 2001
107,164
56,027
1
Most states don't host a billion dollar Tesla manufacturing plant.

Someone can get a job at the Texas Tesla factory building vehicles they cannot even buy in their own state.

Of course you guys don't think it's a big deal.
"As it stands, Tesla’s company-owned outlets cannot legally sell a car in Texas, nor can the company “deliver” a car within the state even if bought by a Texan."

I've been to Austin a thousand times. I've worked for two separate companies on the north side near Round Rock. There is a Tesla dealership within a walk of both offices. (hurry, they close at 7pm central tonight) How do I know this? I used to walk by them every morning on a team walk when I was in town. There is also one at the "Domain" near there, open until 10pm to catch the dinner crowd (the sushi place is awesome as is the Aloft and don't forget to get the TopGolf there). If you go eat at Jack Allen's kitchen, the parking lot looks like a Tesla Dealership. I'll bet 20% of the cars parked there are Teslas.
 
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rumble_lion

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2011
22,080
5,258
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There are tons of Teslas in TX.
Musk decided to bypass the dealership structure when he built Tesla for cost reasons.

Just because he doesnt want to have dealerships doesnt mean states need to change their laws.

California had the same issue.

LdN

There are tons of Teslas in TX.
Musk decided to bypass the dealership structure when he built Tesla for cost reasons.


That is not the only reason. Most people don't like buying cars from dealerships. Why would want to outsource your contact with your customers to a third party?

Just because he doesnt want to have dealerships doesnt mean states need to change their laws.


The laws were on the books to protect existing dealers from having to compete with their own car manufactures. Tesla never had a single dealership so there no one to protect. Most of these laws were modified recently to prevent Tesla from selling directly to customers.

This is what Michigan did in 2014:

General Motors, the largest U.S.-based automaker, released a statement today supporting a last-minute addition to Michigan House Bill 5606 that would effectively prohibit Tesla from selling cars in the state using its preferred business model, or even providing customers with information about its cars. It’s the classic David-versus-Goliath tale, where Goliath wants the state of Michigan to take away David’s slingshot.​
The Michigan bill, originally focused on franchise-dealership fees, included a last-minute amendment addressing direct-to-consumer auto sales through manufacturer-owned showrooms. That amendment, added by Republican State Senator Joe Hune, was tossed onto the bill at the very last minute, a procedural loophole that meant the amendment never underwent public comment or debate on the State Senate floor. Michigan Governor Rick Snyder just signed the bill into law.​
Snyder, also a Republican, is up for re-election in a couple of weeks. If he didn’t sign the bill, he would have likely faced an immediate onslaught of attack ads paid for by Michigan’s auto dealers—something that would not have helped his cause in a race he leads by a slim margin.​
In a statement, Governor Snyder said, “This bill does not, as some have claimed, prevent auto manufacturers from selling automobiles directly to consumers at retail in Michigan—because this is already prohibited under Michigan law.” The updated bill omits one word from the legal phrasing of the existing law, clarifying that manufacturers are only permitted to sell cars in Michigan through franchise dealerships.​

Why do dealerships get to decide how Tesla should sell it's vehicles? Shouldn't that be decided by the customers? If customers like buying from car dealers better than buying directly from Tesla then Tesla won't sell many cars. Why do the existing car dealers get to have their competition become illegal?

It's like if you wanted to open you own hamburger restaurant right next to a McDonald's and McDonald's got a law passed in your state that says the only legal way to sell a hamburger to someone is via a franchised restaurant. It's ridiculous.

California had the same issue.

Got a link for that?
 

rumble_lion

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2011
22,080
5,258
1
"As it stands, Tesla’s company-owned outlets cannot legally sell a car in Texas, nor can the company “deliver” a car within the state even if bought by a Texan."

I've been to Austin a thousand times. I've worked for two separate companies on the north side near Round Rock. There is a Tesla dealership within a walk of both offices. (hurry, they close at 7pm central tonight) How do I know this? I used to walk by them every morning on a team walk when I was in town. There is also one at the "Domain" near there, open until 10pm to catch the dinner crowd (the sushi place is awesome as is the Aloft and don't forget to get the TopGolf there). If you go eat at Jack Allen's kitchen, the parking lot looks like a Tesla Dealership. I'll bet 20% of the cars parked there are Teslas.

Right and if you went inside one the Tesla dealerships they would not be able to tell you how much it costs to buy one their vehicles. And if you wanted to buy a Tesla the paperwork could not be done at the dealership. The paperwork would have to be done outside of Texas.

And when the factory in Austin starts producing vehicles you would not be able to buy one and pick it up. The vehicle would have to be shipped from the Austin Texas factory to another state and then brought back into Texas before you could take delivery of it.
 

Obliviax

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Aug 21, 2001
107,164
56,027
1
Right and if you went inside one the Tesla dealerships they would not be able to tell you how much it costs to buy one their vehicles. And if you wanted to buy a Tesla the paperwork could not be done at the dealership. The paperwork would have to be done outside of Texas.

And when the factory in Austin starts producing vehicles you would not be able to buy one and pick it up. The vehicle would have to be shipped from the Austin Texas factory to another state and then brought back into Texas before you could take delivery of it.
who does paperwork?

Again...its not like its slowing anybody down. TX is adjusting to having manufacturer built cars being sold directly. You guys are like little girls.

Why are you not going gaga over Biden buying ice cream in CLE today like CNN is telling you to?
 

LionDeNittany

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
45,263
19,523
1
DFW, TX
There are tons of Teslas in TX.
Musk decided to bypass the dealership structure when he built Tesla for cost reasons.


That is not the only reason. Most people don't like buying cars from dealerships. Why would want to outsource your contact with your customers to a third party?

Just because he doesnt want to have dealerships doesnt mean states need to change their laws.

The laws were on the books to protect existing dealers from having to compete with their own car manufactures. Tesla never had a single dealership so there no one to protect. Most of these laws were modified recently to prevent Tesla from selling directly to customers.

This is what Michigan did in 2014:

General Motors, the largest U.S.-based automaker, released a statement today supporting a last-minute addition to Michigan House Bill 5606 that would effectively prohibit Tesla from selling cars in the state using its preferred business model, or even providing customers with information about its cars. It’s the classic David-versus-Goliath tale, where Goliath wants the state of Michigan to take away David’s slingshot.​
The Michigan bill, originally focused on franchise-dealership fees, included a last-minute amendment addressing direct-to-consumer auto sales through manufacturer-owned showrooms. That amendment, added by Republican State Senator Joe Hune, was tossed onto the bill at the very last minute, a procedural loophole that meant the amendment never underwent public comment or debate on the State Senate floor. Michigan Governor Rick Snyder just signed the bill into law.​
Snyder, also a Republican, is up for re-election in a couple of weeks. If he didn’t sign the bill, he would have likely faced an immediate onslaught of attack ads paid for by Michigan’s auto dealers—something that would not have helped his cause in a race he leads by a slim margin.​
In a statement, Governor Snyder said, “This bill does not, as some have claimed, prevent auto manufacturers from selling automobiles directly to consumers at retail in Michigan—because this is already prohibited under Michigan law.” The updated bill omits one word from the legal phrasing of the existing law, clarifying that manufacturers are only permitted to sell cars in Michigan through franchise dealerships.​

Why do dealerships get to decide how Tesla should sell it's vehicles? Shouldn't that be decided by the customers? If customers like buying from car dealers better than buying directly from Tesla then Tesla won't sell many cars. Why do the existing car dealers get to have their competition become illegal?

It's like if you wanted to open you own hamburger restaurant right next to a McDonald's and McDonald's got a law passed in your state that says the only legal way to sell a hamburger to someone is via a franchised restaurant. It's ridiculous.

California had the same issue.

Got a link for that?

Do you understand what consumer protection means?
 

bdgan

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May 29, 2008
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I'm glad Texas is 100% free market, otherwise things could get weird.

Tesla is going to build cars in Austin Texas that they cannot legally sell to someone living in Texas.

Under Texas franchise laws, which are similar to those in most other states, automakers like Toyota and General Motors cannot sell you a car. They must sell their cars to independently owned third-party businesses that in turn sell them to Texans—you know, new-car dealerships.​
As it stands, Tesla’s company-owned outlets cannot legally sell a car in Texas, nor can the company “deliver” a car within the state even if bought by a Texan. Owners had regularly rallied against this soft ban as early as 2013. There are workarounds, some detailed on forums within Tesla’s own website. The company has more than a dozen Texas “galleries,” where cars can be viewed and described—though staffers may not discuss prices.​
Any Texan can go online and order a Tesla through the company’s website. But no orders may be placed or processed within any Texas facility owned by Tesla. One buyer noted his paperwork had been FedExed to and from a Tesla Store in Nevada for completion.​
Once ordered, the vehicle is shipped to one of Tesla’s eight Texas service centers. The buyer must first pay for it online (from outside the facility grounds), and can then drive it away—meaning Tesla has not actually “delivered” the car to a buyer, but simply made it available to be “picked up” by an existing owner.​
Texas is quite happy to register it and collect sales tax on the purchase, of course.​
At last, change was expected by many in 2021 because the backdrop to the state’s legislative session was substantially different than it was in 2019. Following a highly publicized site search for its second U.S. vehicle assembly plant, the company announced in July 2020 it had chosen Austin, Texas. That Austin plant is now well into construction, and production of the Tesla Cybertruck and other EVs is to start within the next 12 months. Tesla has posted hundreds of job openings, and said it hopes to employ 5,000 people.​
Most of the auto industry presumed that in exchange for dropping a billion dollars or so into the Texas economy, Tesla had extracted a promise or a handshake deal that the ban on selling its vehicles would be lifted. Otherwise, it was noted at the time, Tesla would face the peculiar prospect of having to ship all Texas-built vehicles out of the state—even those to be delivered to buyers within five miles of its new plant. No way that would actually happen, right?​
On March 12, State Representative Cody Harris [R-District 8] introduced HB 4379, a bill that would have essentially permitted Tesla to deliver electric cars in the state. The bill crafted a narrow exception to the dealer franchise law that would allow automakers to sell cars directly in Texas if they solely built battery-electric vehicles and never maintained franchised distributors in Texas. Only Tesla and a handful of EV startups fit that description.​
HB 4379 was finally heard by the House Transportation Committee on May 11, two months after it was filed by Rep. Harris. That was a win, of sorts: Earlier versions of the bill in previous sessions hadn’t even gotten that far. Sadly for Tesla, that’s where it ended; the hearing was simply the first of seven steps that must occur within 140 days for a bill to become law in Texas. But the bill was not passed out of committee by the deadline of May 13, meaning it will progress no further. The direct-sale ban will remain in place.​
A different EV bill, HB 2221, filed by Transportation Committee chair Terry Canales [D-District 40] was voted out of committee. The “Electric Transportation Act” has five ambitious goals to spur EV usage in Texas, but it stalled after that step.​
Jeff Carlson, Harris’s chief of staff, was simply pleased HB 4379 got its committee hearing in the first place: “That’s a big deal,” he said. He expressed confidence the testimony would “open some eyes” in the state to the positive attributes of allowing direct EV sales. He suggested such sales would be “the future of the state,” which might well like to attract other EV makers once Tesla has opened its plant. He also pointed out that the outcome reflects the way the Texas Legislature is designed to operate. “It’s a process built to kill bills, not to pass them,” Carlson said.​
So another bill to exempt Tesla (and other direct-sale automakers) will have to be introduced two years hence, and the process will start all over again.​
Another misleading post by rumble. I personally don't like the laws protecting dealers so we ought to have common ground on this. But as usual you are dishonest or at least misleading by acting like this is just a Texas issue.
 

LionDeNittany

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May 29, 2001
45,263
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DFW, TX
Another misleading post by rumble. I personally don't like the laws protecting dealers so we ought to have common ground on this. But as usual you are dishonest or at least misleading by acting like this is just a Texas issue.

Why cant i just sell stocks? Why cant i just sell guns? How about alcohol? How about opening a casino at my bar?

Laws were put in place. We dont like all of them. Most are due to people like Rumble
 

bdgan

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May 29, 2008
60,325
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Why cant i just sell stocks? Why cant i just sell guns? How about alcohol? How about opening a casino at my bar?

Laws were put in place. We dont like all of them. Most are due to people like Rumble
I'm still trying to find out why rumble's family (or anybody) can't get a $15/hr job.
 
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rumble_lion

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Another misleading post by rumble. I personally don't like the laws protecting dealers so we ought to have common ground on this. But as usual you are dishonest or at least misleading by acting like this is just a Texas issue.

I never said it was just a Texas issue. I just thought it was particularly galling that vehicles produced in their new Texas plant would have to be shipped out of state before they could be sold to anyone in Texas. Especially since Texas claims to be business friendly vs. a state like California. It just points out how ridiculous these laws are.
 
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LionDeNittany

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I never said it was just a Texas issue. I just thought it was particularly galling that vehicles produced in their new Texas plant would have to be shipped out of state before they could be sold to anyone in Texas. Especially since Texas claims to be business friendly vs. a state like California. It just points out how ridiculous these laws are.

How many vehicles have been built in this plant?
 

pawrestlersintn

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Jan 26, 2013
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I never said it was just a Texas issue. I just thought it was particularly galling that vehicles produced in their new Texas plant would have to be shipped out of state before they could be sold to anyone in Texas. Especially since Texas claims to be business friendly vs. a state like California. It just points out how ridiculous these laws are.
It just blows my mind that the people at Tesla weren't smart enough to think about this before they decided to build the plant there. I mean, really, you should probably be working for them, just to avoid these types of pitfalls.
 
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m.knox

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I never said it was just a Texas issue. I just thought it was particularly galling that vehicles produced in their new Texas plant would have to be shipped out of state before they could be sold to anyone in Texas. Especially since Texas claims to be business friendly vs. a state like California. It just points out how ridiculous these laws are.

LOL... CA is sooooooooooooooooooooo business friendly that Tesla chose to make cars in a less business friendly state.......
 
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Cosmos

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I never said it was just a Texas issue. I just thought it was particularly galling that vehicles produced in their new Texas plant would have to be shipped out of state before they could be sold to anyone in Texas. Especially since Texas claims to be business friendly vs. a state like California. It just points out how ridiculous these laws are.

I don't see what the fuss is over. Today, should a Texan buy a Tesla it's made in Freemont, CA. That won't change...


So what the state assembly is mulling over is strategy. It's not something that needs to be resolved tomorrow, especially when other states have the same problem (i.e., dealers want to get their cut).

Lastly, Texas makes no such claims. It doesn't have to. It is a business-friendly state. Take for example the following list of corporate HQ relocations. The expectation is Austin-Round Rock would dominate because it is the "second Silicon Valley." But re-sort the list based on the last column and you'll find it does not. Cities which comprise the DFW Metroplex do. In fact, it won't be long before DFW overtakes Chicago as the third largest metro area in the country.


Bottom line, if you build it they will come. Musk saw it. He came. Might his HQ be next?
 

rumble_lion

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I don't see what the fuss is over. Today, should a Texan buy a Tesla it's made in Freemont, CA. That won't change...


So what the state assembly is mulling over is strategy. It's not something that needs to be resolved tomorrow, especially when other states have the same problem (i.e., dealers want to get their cut).

Lastly, Texas makes no such claims. It doesn't have to. It is a business-friendly state. Take for example the following list of corporate HQ relocations. The expectation is Austin-Round Rock would dominate because it is the "second Silicon Valley." But re-sort the list based on the last column and you'll find it does not. Cities which comprise the DFW Metroplex do. In fact, it won't be long before DFW overtakes Chicago as the third largest metro area in the country.


Bottom line, if you build it they will come. Musk saw it. He came. Might his HQ be next?

I don't see what the fuss is over. Today, should a Texan buy a Tesla it's made in Freemont, CA. That won't change...

It is changing. The factory in Texas will be producing vehicles in 2022 and it's the only facility that will be making the Telsa pickup truck. Think there will be anyone in Texas interested in buying a all electric pickup truck?

So what the state assembly is mulling over is strategy. It's not something that needs to be resolved tomorrow,

Not tomorrow but close, in 3 days.

Texas, the state that was once a country, has some unique features in its governance. One is that its state legislature meets only every other year for a maximum of 140 days, starting from “noon on the second Tuesday in January.” This year, the Legislature convened Jan. 12 and will wrap up its work on May 31 before breaking until 2023. And it will do so without making a widely expected change to Texas’ auto dealer franchise laws that would finally allow Tesla to sell its cars—many of which will be built at its new Austin factory next year—directly to the public in the nation’s second-largest state.​
 

Cosmos

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May 29, 2001
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I don't see what the fuss is over. Today, should a Texan buy a Tesla it's made in Freemont, CA. That won't change...

It is changing. The factory in Texas will be producing vehicles in 2022 and it's the only facility that will be making the Telsa pickup truck. Think there will be anyone in Texas interested in buying a all electric pickup truck?

So what the state assembly is mulling over is strategy. It's not something that needs to be resolved tomorrow,

Not tomorrow but close, in 3 days.

Texas, the state that was once a country, has some unique features in its governance. One is that its state legislature meets only every other year for a maximum of 140 days, starting from “noon on the second Tuesday in January.” This year, the Legislature convened Jan. 12 and will wrap up its work on May 31 before breaking until 2023. And it will do so without making a widely expected change to Texas’ auto dealer franchise laws that would finally allow Tesla to sell its cars—many of which will be built at its new Austin factory next year—directly to the public in the nation’s second-largest state.​

Being the 'pickup capital of the world' I think something which looks like this will be a hard sell here...

04_Desktop.jpg
 

pawrestlersintn

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Jan 26, 2013
15,804
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I don't see what the fuss is over. Today, should a Texan buy a Tesla it's made in Freemont, CA. That won't change...

It is changing. The factory in Texas will be producing vehicles in 2022 and it's the only facility that will be making the Telsa pickup truck. Think there will be anyone in Texas interested in buying a all electric pickup truck?

So what the state assembly is mulling over is strategy. It's not something that needs to be resolved tomorrow,

Not tomorrow but close, in 3 days.

Texas, the state that was once a country, has some unique features in its governance. One is that its state legislature meets only every other year for a maximum of 140 days, starting from “noon on the second Tuesday in January.” This year, the Legislature convened Jan. 12 and will wrap up its work on May 31 before breaking until 2023. And it will do so without making a widely expected change to Texas’ auto dealer franchise laws that would finally allow Tesla to sell its cars—many of which will be built at its new Austin factory next year—directly to the public in the nation’s second-largest state.​
Whatever will they do?!? It's a crisis of epic proportions! Children will starve. Grannies will fall off of a cliff. <snicker>

Are you wringing your hands over this? Don't you have your own life to concern yourself over and try to make better?
 
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Cosmos

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Texas, the state that was once a country, has some unique features in its governance. One is that its state legislature meets only every other year for a maximum of 140 days, starting from “noon on the second Tuesday in January.” This year, the Legislature convened Jan. 12 and will wrap up its work on May 31 before breaking until 2023. And it will do so without making a widely expected change to Texas’ auto dealer franchise laws that would finally allow Tesla to sell its cars—many of which will be built at its new Austin factory next year—directly to the public in the nation’s second-largest state.

Be careful slamming our state's governance relative to others. Texas state assemblyman is not a full time job. Base salary is only $7,200/year. But they say the retirement benefits are great if you serve eight years or more.:cool:

Some background: Members of the U.S. Congress all have the same base salary, but for state lawmakers, the pay can be wildly different. In Texas, there's a long tradition of the citizen legislature. Basically, lawmaking isn't supposed to be a full-time job.


 

rumble_lion

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Aug 7, 2011
22,080
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Being the 'pickup capital of the world' I think something which looks like this will be a hard sell here...

04_Desktop.jpg

You think so?

Tesla has already accumulated over 1 million Cybertruck reservations, according to the latest tally.​
The electric pickup truck still has strong momentum.​
When Tesla unveiled the Cybertruck back in November 2019, the automaker started taking reservations with $100 refundable deposits.​
It was the company’s lowest deposit amount, and therefore, it is a smaller commitment than with Tesla’s other vehicles, but it helped achieved more impressive numbers.​
CEO Elon Musk announced that Tesla received over 250,000 reservations for the Cybertruck within a week of unveiling the vehicle.​
Generally, Tesla receives a lot of reservations early after an unveiling, and then it tapers off — but that wasn’t the case with the Cybertruck​
The number was last updated in June 2020, and at that point, the number had risen to over 650,000 Cybertruck reservations.​
Now, a crowdsourced Cybertruck reservation tally put reservations to over 1 million:​
 

rumble_lion

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2011
22,080
5,258
1
Whatever will they do?!? It's a crisis of epic proportions! Children will starve. Grannies will fall off of a cliff. <snicker>

Are you wringing your hands over this? Don't you have your own life to concern yourself over and try to make better?

Making a post on a message board is going to ruin my life? Ahhh, ok then.