ADVERTISEMENT

Technical discussion: Taylor vs Nickal

diggerpup

diggerpup

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2007
3,764
9,694
1
Now that the smoke has cleared from OTTs, I am curious to hear opinions from forum members on what DT did -or- why DT defeated Bo so soundly.

To my untrained amateur eye, DT seemed stronger, more polished, fundamentally sound & finished his shots quickly and crisply. DT appeared to have an answer for everything Bo attempted.

But curious if anyone wants to break down certain exchanges or take a deep dive down the tactical rabbit hole.

I am very curious on what very knowledgeable folks see in these two matches.

I mean - how often does Bo Nickal wrestle 12 mins of freestyle and get shut out ??

Thanks !!

 
Bo Nickal got to DTs legs more than JB did the last time they wrestled.

I think Taylor just has really good position even when he shoots. He doesn't get extended very often and finishes fairly quickly. Bo really likes to take advantage of a guy who gets out of position on him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bigs22 and diggerpup
liex26 said:
Bo Nickal got to DTs legs more than JB did the last time they wrestled.

I think Taylor just has really good position even when he shoots. He doesn't get extended very often and finishes fairly quickly. Bo really likes to take advantage of a guy who gets out of position on him.
Click to expand...

This is where Taylor and Nickal working out in the room so often over the past years works against Bo. I remember Taylor saying something to the effect that Bo has caught everyone in practice with one of his funky pinning moves. Familiarity with Bo allows Taylor to know what positions to try and avoid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: a_mshaffer, Ja1339, JCPSU73-77 and 1 other person
Ski said:
This is where Taylor and Nickal working out in the room so often over the past years works against Bo. I remember Taylor saying something to the effect that Bo has caught everyone in practice with one of his funky pinning moves. Familiarity with Bo allows Taylor to know what positions to try and avoid.
Click to expand...
think it could be as simple as the experience factor. david's been through the wars with the world's best freestylers. bo is relatively new to big time freestyle wrestling. that's why i wish bo would junk mma(won't happen), as i think he could be david in a few years of concentrated freestyle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: steelhead52, nerfstate, diggerpup and 1 other person
Bo got in on 3 shots, but couldn't get his head up on any of them. Most of that is how good DT is in scrambling.

I was surprised to see Taylor use an underhook so much -- as in at all, which I don't recall seeing him do before. And he did it a fair amount, enough that Smith commented on Bo needing to clear the hooks. You'd think that would be playing to Bo's strength -- but then Bo only really locked an overhook once (early), otherwise stuck to collar ties. Which was also surprising.

Taylor didn't work it like Martinez or Hidlay. So maybe it was a defensive strategy. In which case it worked -- Bo didn't seem comfortable creating offense in close.

Or maybe it served to distract Bo's focus away from preventing shots. Which is what seemed to happen with the early 2nd period takedown -- when Taylor released the hook, he immediately hit a short arm drag into a shot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lionlover, jtothemfp, danoftw and 4 others
El-Jefe said:
Bo got in on 3 shots, but couldn't get his head up on any of them. Most of that is how good DT is in scrambling.

I was surprised to see Taylor use an underhook so much -- as in at all, which I don't recall seeing him do before. And he did it a fair amount, enough that Smith commented on Bo needing to clear the hooks. You'd think that would be playing to Bo's strength -- but then Bo only really locked an overhook once (early), otherwise stuck to collar ties. Which was also surprising.

Taylor didn't work it like Martinez or Hidlay. So maybe it was a defensive strategy. In which case it worked -- Bo didn't seem comfortable creating offense in close.

Or maybe it served to distract Bo's focus away from preventing shots. Which is what seemed to happen with the early 2nd period takedown -- when Taylor released the hook, he immediately hit a short arm drag into a shot.
Click to expand...
DT has added that underhook since coming back from injury. Its positional, allows him to move guys and most people who try to try to go offensive with an overhook pay for it. He baits you into it, switches head position and has s single leg open. After wrestling Yazdanni twice he grew to appreciate that underhook.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jtothemfp, nerfstate, diggerpup and 3 others
Muscle mass (tied to strength) maxes out at about age 25 by most accounts, but can be affected by exercise and diet. DT is 30 and Bo is 25 as I write this.

I believe DT is still at his peak, and likely will still be there in 3 years (next Olympic cycle) because he takes care of himself. Bo will continue to get stronger for the same reasons (exercise and diet).

I mention this because when it is combined with technique and experience, it's a tough blend to beat. Others have noted the addition of a more-frequently-used underhook, as well as DT's position (which he's rarely out of).

All of this together, and I see it as the savvy veteran that does everything right (sleep, eat, train, etc.) winning against his protege, who isn't quite there yet despite having tremendous talent and potential of his own.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ja1339, JCPSU73-77 and nerfstate
I know these guys are in the same room but how much do they actually show each other? Rhino nailed the Uhook addition, but maybe it was a slight surprise to Bo?
 
  • Like
Reactions: diggerpup
1) DT is the best in the world right now and in the prime of his career
2) My motto it takes 3 years of training to be able to compete at the highest levels. Bo is practically there but, spending those years on 60% technique, 40% remaking your body makes a big difference.

It is a real shame we won't get to see what Bo could have become in free given another 2 years. Imagine a jacked Bo, scarry. He certainly had the talent to have become the best in that discipline.

I am not so sure I want to see his face get pounded on in MMA either. I am not thrilled with Ruth either, but who am I to knock their choice of how to make a living
 
  • Like
Reactions: PSU Fan in TN
GogglesPaizano said:
1) DT is the best in the world right now and in the prime of his career
2) My motto it takes 3 years of training to be able to compete at the highest levels. Bo is practically there but, spending those years on 60% technique, 40% remaking your body makes a big difference.

It is a real shame we won't get to see what Bo could have become in free given another 2 years. Imagine a jacked Bo, scarry. He certainly had the talent to have become the best in that discipline.

I am not so sure I want to see his face get pounded on in MMA either. I am not thrilled with Ruth either, but who am I to knock their choice of how to make a living
Click to expand...
There are limits to my imagination. :)Ol’ noodle arms is probably about as jacked as he’s ever going to get. No matter, he’s super-strong right now which is one of the reasons he treated Downey like an hors d’oeuvre.
 
  • Like
Reactions: diggerpup
GogglesPaizano said:
1) DT is the best in the world right now and in the prime of his career
2) My motto it takes 3 years of training to be able to compete at the highest levels. Bo is practically there but, spending those years on 60% technique, 40% remaking your body makes a big difference.

It is a real shame we won't get to see what Bo could have become in free given another 2 years. Imagine a jacked Bo, scarry. He certainly had the talent to have become the best in that discipline.

I am not so sure I want to see his face get pounded on in MMA either. I am not thrilled with Ruth either, but who am I to knock their choice of how to make a living
Click to expand...
I'm not saying you are wrong, but Burroughs and Snyder would challenge the 3 years argument. Not that they weren't training at all, but Freestyle didn't receive the same attention as after they graduated. Sometimes you are ready other times you need to go back and get better.
 
liex26 said:
I'm not saying you are wrong, but Burroughs and Snyder would challenge the 3 years argument. Not that they weren't training at all, but Freestyle didn't receive the same attention as after they graduated. Sometimes you are ready other times you need to go back and get better.
Click to expand...
Gilman belongs on that exceptions list too -- silver at Worlds 5 months after his last NCAA tournament.

Though they all continue to improve, and most guys aren't ready to medal right out of the gate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lionlover
Nickal looked far stronger/bigger at 189 than he did at 197. Absolutely horsed Zahid a couple of times.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bwfight
AndEEss said:
Nickal looked far stronger/bigger at 189 than he did at 197. Absolutely horsed Zahid a couple of times.
Click to expand...
Looked bigger at 189 than at 197 🤔

Seriously, Bo made the Final X at 197, just so happens he went up against Cox. Not a fair comparison.
Bo has no where to go, therefore he’s going MMA.
 
Not really a technical discussion, but DT has been/is a better wrestler than Bo at every level. He's just better in every position. Not a slight to Bo, but I was astounded by how many people thought he could hang with DT. I think it could have been worse, but DT showed him a lot of respect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: diggerpup and nitlion6
AgSurfer said:
After reviewing both matches several times, I think Taylor's primary advantage was that he scored more points than Bo.
Click to expand...
I'll go with experience. I bet Bo will be a beast in three years just needs some strength and experience his ankle pick will be legendary. Bo knows wrestling that's what he does
 
  • Like
Reactions: nitlion6
District four said:
I'll go with experience. I bet Bo will be a beast in three years just needs some strength and experience his ankle pick will be legendary. Bo knows wrestling that's what he does
Click to expand...
Don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but I think Bo's wrestling career is over.
 
Brian LB-U said:
There are limits to my imagination. :)Ol’ noodle arms is probably about as jacked as he’s ever going to get. No matter, he’s super-strong right now which is one of the reasons he treated Downey like an hors d’oeuvre.
Click to expand...

Beg to differ. I think Bo was more defined in College than DT, and look at him now. It's been an extreme makeover, and good part of the reason for his success. Talent plus elite power is a dangerous combination.

Bo can get more jacked, much more if he wants to.
 
Last edited:
DT arguably has greater will and will power—drive, focus, and personal ambition (including negative aspects associated with that)—to succeed in freestyle and international wrestling than Nickal and many others.

At elite levels, in almost every pursuit (including the arts), it makes a great difference. However much talent you possess, if you are not extremely focused and motivated, you are not going to land at the top. Taylor lives, dreams, breathes, and is willing to sacrifice just about everything to reach his goals. Same with Dake and a very few others.

Nickal seems more relaxed and conflicted, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is probably more human and humane not to be so ruthless and monomaniacal.

As the saying goes, ambition is also the last refuge of scoundrels. Rarely, if ever, does one reach the pinnacle without trouncing on the bodies and beliefs of others.
 
dmm53 said:
As the saying goes, ambition is also the last refuge of scoundrels. Rarely, if ever, does one reach the pinnacle without trouncing on the bodies and beliefs of others.
Click to expand...
Damn, that's some solid sage Confucious sh!t brotha!
 
  • Like
Reactions: bwfight
Muscle mass (tied to strength) maxes out at about age 25 by most accounts,

Then tell me how I set my PR Bench in my 50's with a then undiagnosed case of lymphoma.
 
Pitchfork Rebel said:
Muscle mass (tied to strength) maxes out at about age 25 by most accounts,

Then tell me how I set my PR Bench in my 50's with a then undiagnosed case of lymphoma.
Click to expand...
Maybe you were below potential at age 25 due to too much sex drugs and rock and roll? :)
 
Pitchfork Rebel said:
Muscle mass (tied to strength) maxes out at about age 25 by most accounts,

Then tell me how I set my PR Bench in my 50's with a then undiagnosed case of lymphoma.
Click to expand...

The answer was in your question. You didn’t work hard enough when you were younger.
 
PAHURDLER said:
The answer was in your question. You didn’t work hard enough when you were younger.
Click to expand...

Actually, if the difference is in work effort, I worked too hard when I was younger.

Being older, married and more responsible means you have to balance gym time with real life and the limitations of age.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back