Southern Scuffle Thread
- Thread starter NittanyChris
- Start date
So much of this thread over the last several pages doesn't make any sense to me. I'm guessing it's because there's so many posts by the 2 users I have on Ignore and it seems like you others are just crazy and arguing with yourselves.
Ahhhh, ignorance is bliss. I highly recommend it!
Ahhhh, ignorance is bliss. I highly recommend it!
Actually, PSU not being there this year skews it more in our direction.
Sorry, I'm a data kind of a guy. I can't help myself. In fact, here's some more:
2016 full season bonus rates, for guys that returned this year:
OSU top 4: 54.5, 50, 48, 47.6
PSU top 4: 100, 89, 89, 66 (The 100% was Vincenzo on a short season, so it would be fair to throw that out, and replace it with the next best, 55.)
2017 Scuffle OSU total number of falls/tech falls through quarters: 1/4
2016 Scuffle PSU falls/tech falls for Zain, Nolf, Nickal, Cutch through quarters: 3/6
Bear in mind, also, Ohio State was at the Scuffle last year.
But the apples-to-oranges comparison is what makes his point even stronger. With a weaker field, OSU should have way more bonus.
Not sure I follow your point. With a stronger field last year, we had better bonus point results.
If they pull Hall's shirt, his chance of being an undefeated 4X champ would become zero since he's already lost once this year.
But I doubt that figures in the decision.
Not arguing so don't take it at that... your point is valid but I think it strengthens mine. He's managed that kind of atmosphere and brought the right people in. It's no surprise Zain and Nico and Matt Brown have all super high GPAs in hard programs. I wrestled at a rigorous D3 school and it amazes me how great these guys do academically. It almost seems impossible to me while managing wrestling and weight. He's brought the right people in around them. Based on some of the comments Hall has put out there he seems no different than any of them. So it all goes back to the chief of everything. He's the man and until I feel otherwise, I just sit back and read and watch all of his great acclomplishments. Even if Cael didn't win 4x or Olympic Gold, let's say he was mediocre like me, he would still have great success in the real world. He's a superb human being beyond wrestling.
Bonus Points are determined by simple math, but it's not the whole story. Our program has a reputation. I'm sure this reputation plays with the psyche of our opponent, much like the Hawks of old. But back to Bonus Points, since it's a measurable commodity.
Of our 5 recent championships, one could argue Bonus Points made a difference in 2013 (a 4-point win), and 2014 (a 5.5-point win). In those years, our BP advantage over the 2nd place team was 8.5 and 6.5 points respectively.
In all 5 of these championship seasons, PSU led the tournament in Bonus Points, as follows;
2011 PSU = 16.5, 2nd Place Cornell = 14 (Others of note; Ariz St = 11, American = 10)
2012 PSU = 25.5, 2nd Place Minny = 16.5 (Others of note; Illinois = 18)
2013 PSU = 29.5, 2nd Place Okie St = 21
2014 PSU = 20, 2nd Place Minny = 13.5 (Others of note; Edinboro = 18)
2016 PSU = 23, 2nd Place Okie St = 13.5 (Others of note; Ohio St = 16, Mizz = 16)
So, our average BP advantage over the team with the 2nd highest Bonus points is 5.5 Points, or like having an extra wrestler finishing as an 8th Place All-American. Our average BP advantage over the team that finished in 2nd Place each year is 7.2 Points, or like having an extra wrestler finishing as a 7th Place All-American. (Note: this is a change from my original post...thanks dice!!) My point is that an aggressive, point-scoring team mentality can earn the Bonus Points needed to win Championships, when they are the difference maker.
Of our 5 recent championships, one could argue Bonus Points made a difference in 2013 (a 4-point win), and 2014 (a 5.5-point win). In those years, our BP advantage over the 2nd place team was 8.5 and 6.5 points respectively.
In all 5 of these championship seasons, PSU led the tournament in Bonus Points, as follows;
2011 PSU = 16.5, 2nd Place Cornell = 14 (Others of note; Ariz St = 11, American = 10)
2012 PSU = 25.5, 2nd Place Minny = 16.5 (Others of note; Illinois = 18)
2013 PSU = 29.5, 2nd Place Okie St = 21
2014 PSU = 20, 2nd Place Minny = 13.5 (Others of note; Edinboro = 18)
2016 PSU = 23, 2nd Place Okie St = 13.5 (Others of note; Ohio St = 16, Mizz = 16)
So, our average BP advantage over the team with the 2nd highest Bonus points is 5.5 Points, or like having an extra wrestler finishing as an 8th Place All-American. Our average BP advantage over the team that finished in 2nd Place each year is 7.2 Points, or like having an extra wrestler finishing as a 7th Place All-American. (Note: this is a change from my original post...thanks dice!!) My point is that an aggressive, point-scoring team mentality can earn the Bonus Points needed to win Championships, when they are the difference maker.
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Cassar is back wrestling live now...He and clutch should be wrestling off this week....Cassar is very good....
No worries -- I don't take your point as argumentative at all. Maybe we're even saying the same thing. I thought you expressed some concern about the young guys not getting a holiday tournament under their belts this season, and my only point was really what you said just now. Cael recruits phenomenal leaders, which makes the coaching staff that much stronger (i.e., Zain, Nolf, etc. are extensions of that staff, almost literally). Peer leaders can be critical in guiding the young pups when they're in the trenches and "up against it" in the postseason. My opinion, at least.
On Usenet (dating myself here), a dumpster fire wasn't a dumpster fire until someone called the police and attempted to file a hilariously misguided copyright (usually for copying the text in reply) or defamation (even "moron" could trip this particular wire) complaint. So we've got plenty of space to grow still. I mean, no one's even invoked Brody Grothus yet.
Can't tell who wrote the article, so unable to give credit for this little nugget...
"When defending champion Oklahoma visited Iowa City in 1975, the Sooners had a reputation of wrestling on the edge, so Kurdelmeier pieced together four mats to create a 74-foot wrestling surface that would later be banned by the wrestling rules committee."
As an aside, current rules allow the mat to be 32 to 42 feet in diameter.
Roar - with the numbers you posted our average BP advantage over 2nd place is actually over 7 points, not 5.5 (2.5+9.0+8.5+6.5+9.5 = 36/5 = 7.2). In the past 4 championships it has averaged over 8 points.
Yeah, my model used the team with the 2nd highest bonus points, not the 2nd Place team...so for example, in 2014, the advantage was 2 (PSU's 20 minus Edinboro's 18), and if we do that for each year, the advantage is 5.5 average. Both stats are impressive...sorry for the confusion.
Last year saw the PAC 12 wrestling championship at OSU, they used both the 32 & 42 mats. Definitely made a difference in a couple matches.
Here's a cool story about Mark Hall's singlet:
http://www.forsythnews.com/section/110/article/31878/
(Sorry if it was posted in another thread.)
The best quote from the coach who lent Hall the singlet: “The next thing you know one of the best wrestlers in the country is wearing a North Forsyth singlet at the top regular season college wrestling tournament in the nation.”
http://www.forsythnews.com/section/110/article/31878/
(Sorry if it was posted in another thread.)
The best quote from the coach who lent Hall the singlet: “The next thing you know one of the best wrestlers in the country is wearing a North Forsyth singlet at the top regular season college wrestling tournament in the nation.”
"One of the best wrestlers in the country"?
Really? A few posters on here are busy reciting a list of everyone who can beat him.
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