SIAP: Bates at Right Tackle

[royboy]

good stuff in the piece from the front page of this site, update with Ryan Bates
https://bwi.rivals.com/news/bates-is-back-staying-at-rt-through-fiesta

Lots of positive elements -- Bates is very high on Fries at LT, says he is fine working at Right Tackle (or wherever) and really likes the way the line shapes up for next year.

Left to right, I think we see Fries, Gonzalez, McGovern, Menet, Bates
Looks good!

 

[Saquon4Prez]

Excited about McGovern with another offseason behind him. Bates will be a great contributor anywhere on the line (I do with we could have kept him at guard though). If Fries turns out as good as advertised then look out.

 

[bmw199]

Excited about McGovern with another offseason behind him. Bates will be a great contributor anywhere on the line (I do with we could have kept him at guard though). If Fries turns out as good as advertised then look out.

Honestly, I can't believe it's not discussed more. I think we would have been way better off with Mahon at Tackle and Bates are Guard.

 

[sluggo72]

Honestly, I can't believe it's not discussed more. I think we would have been way better off with Mahon at Tackle and Bates are Guard.

why do you think Mahon would be a better OT than OG?

 

[bmw199]

why do you think Mahon would be a better OT than OG?

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/college-football-pff-team-week-selections-following-week-5
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/college-football-pff-team-of-the-week-selections-week-8

Twice graded as best tackle in the country. The eye test too. He set the edge better and was more comfortable in that position.

Probably had to do with weight advantages he had over DE vs DTs. Is I had to guess.

 

[joeparules]

good stuff in the piece from the front page of this site, update with Ryan Bates
https://bwi.rivals.com/news/bates-is-back-staying-at-rt-through-fiesta

Lots of positive elements -- Bates is very high on Fries at LT, says he is fine working at Right Tackle (or wherever) and really likes the way the line shapes up for next year.

Left to right, I think we see Fries, Gonzalez, McGovern, Menet, Bates
Looks good!

I like the look of that line for next year with the only questionable one being Gonzo. I've read threads that have talked about how good Miranda and Thorpe are looking at Guard. But if that is the starting lineup, what would the second string look like? My guess (left to right) would be Gellerstedt, Miranda, Simpson, Thorpe, Wright. Only Wright has any real experience if that is the case and injuries (as always) would be a huge concern.

 

[cavic]

why do you think Mahon would be a better OT than OG?

Primarily b/c he was markedly so all of last season. I don't claim to know more than the coaches, but from the outside looking in it seems like a weird move.

 

[sluggo72]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/college-football-pff-team-week-selections-following-week-5
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/college-football-pff-team-of-the-week-selections-week-8

Twice graded as best tackle in the country. The eye test too. He set the edge better and was more comfortable in that position.

Probably had to do with weight advantages he had over DE vs DTs. Is I had to guess.

why does it seem our OT's play better than our OG's no matter who they are?
I think we ask our OG's to make impossible blocks, especially on the backside when we man block the DT on run plays. When we 'fire out' we end up missing the DT as he can go 3 ways and it is tough to block each of the 3 ways when firing out. You can get 2 out of 3 but in they swim across your face and redirect, they can still make the play. See MSU.
Now look how Minny did it 2015 (yes this is an RPO they decided to throw off of, but watch the RG, does this look familiar?)


my conclusion is, its not that we dont have talent, its not that the OL is not nasty enough, it is we have to change our style of blocking. If we dont change, the same thing will happen to us next year. We will wonder why the OL is struggling.

 

[Saquon4Prez]

You are probably right, and perhaps that means we need truly special players at Guard - i.e. should our best linemen play Guard?

 

[blion72]

good stuff in the piece from the front page of this site, update with Ryan Bates
https://bwi.rivals.com/news/bates-is-back-staying-at-rt-through-fiesta

Lots of positive elements -- Bates is very high on Fries at LT, says he is fine working at Right Tackle (or wherever) and really likes the way the line shapes up for next year.

Left to right, I think we see Fries, Gonzalez, McGovern, Menet, Bates
Looks good!

seems logical 5 to start. I think Menet has been absent the conversations due to injuries since he got here. he is probably the highest rated OL we have gotten since Wiz.

 

[royboy]

Could we rush for more yards in 2018 even without #26?

yes, I think PSU 2018 could exceed the 2017 rushing avg. of 167 yards/game
an experienced, solid OL is one reason; also some capable ball carriers (Trace, Miles, Tommy, Slade, and others) and NOT seeing defenses that totally sell out to stop the run

 

[83wuzme]

Could we rush for more yards in 2018 even without #26?

yes, I think PSU 2018 could exceed the 2017 rushing avg. of 167 yards/game
an experienced, solid OL is one reason; also some capable ball carriers (Trace, Miles, Tommy, Slade, and others) and NOT seeing defenses that totally sell out to stop the run

I will miss JoMo, but not his running package. Having Saquon at a standstill after the snap for 90%+ of all rushing plays cost us a lot of negative yards.

 

[psualum10]

Bates will be at LG next year. He's only on the right side because it's easier on him for his injury. Left side of the line next year will be Fries-Bates-McGovern

 

[sluggo72]

Bates will be at LG next year. He's only on the right side because it's easier on him for his injury. Left side of the line next year will be Fries-Bates-McGovern

I think this will happen too. OT hasnt been a problem, OG has. So you can leave Big Bacon out at OT and move Gonzo to RG.

 

[royboy]

Bates will be at LG next year. He's only on the right side because it's easier on him for his injury. Left side of the line next year will be Fries-Bates-McGovern

You have some inside info, or just your opinion?

Here's what Bates said in the article that is linked in my initial post in this thread:

"Bates played sparingly in the Lions' 66-3 win at Maryland at right tackle. And, now said to be feeling much better, he's going to stay there for at least the time being.

"That’s the plan right now is me being at right tackle," said Bates.

And beyond the Fiesta Bowl?

"It’s up to coach. If I play good at right, I’ll stay at right. If he wants me to move back to left next spring ball, next season, I’ll move to left," said Bates, a redshirt sophomore this season. "I’ll play center if I have to."

 

[royboy]

I think this will happen too. OT hasnt been a problem, OG has. So you can leave Big Bacon out at OT and move Gonzo to RG.

Huh? We've had problems with speed rushers going around our tackles. I wouldn't say OT hasn't been a problem.

 

[sluggo72]

Huh? We've had problems with speed rushers going around our tackles. I wouldn't say OT hasn't been a problem.

that is true for 99.9% of the NCAA teams right now. I was referring more to the fact that we have really, really struggled inside the last 2-3 yrs.

 

[royboy]

that is true for 99.9% of the NCAA teams right now. I was referring more to the fact that we have really, really struggled inside the last 2-3 yrs.

Well, I guess we disagree. I think the larger problem has been finding good answers at tackles.

Please don't get me into an endless Sluggo loop; it's the Holiday season.

 

[sluggo72]

Well, I guess we disagree. I think the larger problem has been finding good answers at tackles.

Please don't get me into an endless Sluggo loop; it's the Holiday season.

Royboy not an endless loop here, so dont worry. I think we've had much better answers at OT while our guys inside have struggled. Last year we lost Nelson, and Big Bacon came on a played pretty well. This year we lost Bates and Fries played pretty well. We lost Nelson again and plugged in Big Bacon and Fries. I just think we have been able to put people in at OT easier than OG. And I think this because, the demand our blocking schemes and blocking techniques put on our OG.

 

[jrd23psu]

Right tackle, left tackle, I don't think it matters. We won't have a good OL until we get better players. We heard all of this last year, and the year before and we still cannot run the ball. Guys had their hands all over Barkley before he ever got the ball last year.

We just keep moving the goal posts on this. We keep telling ourselves that next year is the year the OL comes together. Last year we told ourselves the line would finally be good this year because we returned all kinds of guys with experience. Then the line wasn't any good this year, even before Bates was injured. The guys we have just aren't that good. We won't be able to run against UW, either and we'll have people suggesting that these guys are still young. Meanwhile, at this point they have tons of experience under their belt from last year and this year.

 

[PSU20]

The inexperience excuse we have used for 2-3 years is getting rather trite to say the least. Both MSU and Iowa each had two freshman starting on their OL's and they didn't have anywhere near the problems we had. The RPO we used for our running game with SB standing still at the LOS has been a disaster. The DT and LB's were in his face the second he got the hand off.

 

[djr4rebs]

Iowa isn't a very good example. Other than perhaps 3 plays, we stifled their offense completely. Additionally, they lost 5 games in total, but they did thump the Buckeyes. Is that the comparison one really wants to make?

Sparty I can at least get from the extent of they beat us this season and finished with a good record. Still, they threw all over us. Wasn't like they had 400 yards on the ground and pushed our defense off the field.

 

[1000_OaksLion]

If Holmes keeps improving over the winter and spring he could make a run for right tackle. Which would open the door for Bates to move to his more natural position OG. Holmes had a terrific year on the scout team and has a huge upside.

 

[PSU20]

Iowa isn't a very good example. Other than perhaps 3 plays, we stifled their offense completely. Additionally, they lost 5 games in total, but they did thump the Buckeyes. Is that the comparison one really wants to make?

Sparty I can at least get from the extent of they beat us this season and finished with a good record. Still, they threw all over us. Wasn't like they had 400 yards on the ground and pushed our defense off the field.

Just mentioning they had two freshman on the OL, as did MSU. They performed well against OSU who stuffed our OL the week before!

 

[djr4rebs]

Just mentioning they had two freshman on the OL, as did MSU. They performed well against OSU who stuffed our OL the week before!

They also didn't perform well enough in 5 other games to merit a victory. They couldn't even repeat that performance consistently.

 

[PSU20]

They also didn't perform well enough in 5 other games to merit a victory. They couldn't even repeat that performance consistently.

Iowa had 246 yards rushing against OSU one of the best DL's in the country; we had "93" with the best RB in the country. I guess those two freshman OL for Iowa blocked really well against the Buckeyes that day!

 

[djr4rebs]

I see your logic now: beat OSU, lose 5 other games, season will be deemed successful...

 

[PSU20]

I see your logic now: beat OSU, lose 5 other games, season will be deemed successful...

No, just pointing out that they had two freshman starting on their OL. That's all, nothing more. The rushing stats against OSU are fact, but the reason/s/ for their five losses are anecdotal.

 

[djr4rebs]

The rushing stats against OSU are fact, but the reason/s/ for their five losses are anecdotal.

Iowa rushing yards in losses:

PSU - 82
Spartys - 19
NW - 89
Wisky - 25
Purdue - 82

We should all be so lucky to start two freshman on our OL like Iowa... said nobody, but you. They didn't even have 100 yards TOTAL against the Badgers.

But they beat the Buckeyes...

 

[BBG65]

Even with an all-world running back, we have problems running the ball due to the RPO system. There's always room for improvement with the OL, but the root of the problem is the system. The decision to run or pass isn't made until after the ball is snapped. It certainly is great for the passing game and we score a lot of points, we're just not going to see a consistent, power, downhill running game.

 

[PSU20]

Iowa rushing yards in losses:

PSU - 82
Spartys - 19
NW - 89
Wisky - 25
Purdue - 82

We should all be so lucky to start two freshman on our OL like Iowa... said nobody, but you. They didn't even have 100 yards TOTAL against the Badgers.

But they beat the Buckeyes...

No one said they were lucky, did they? They started two freshman on the OL because they had to, just like MSU! Some of those rushing stats were better than PSU this year!

Whatever floats your boat........

 

[LaJolla Lion]

There is this one stat...forget what it is called for measuring an offense...oh yeah...total offense. PSU was #2 in the conference right behind tOSU. Buy hey...in an RPO offense when teams take away the rush...some of the good teams can still pass the ball and win games. PSU was second in passing offense and it was close as hell to being #1...and 5th in rushing. The offense is not broke. There are aspects of every offense that have some pros and cons and are ALWAYS going to be tweaked or criticized by so called "experts" online.

Now some people have OCD and think it is still 1968 and you have to run the ball 50 times a game to win in 2017...but the game has changed. Wisky can run the ball on pretty much anyone, but if they fall behind by 2 TD's...they lose...game over. UM finished ahead of PSU in rushing offense....how did that work out for them with an all world defensive line?

Take your eyse off the microscope and look around...things are better. There will NEVER ever be a perfect offense or team. 94 offense got slowed down on the road a couple of times...but they managed to squeak out those W's. PSU just happen to drop 2. Big picture is this is a good offense. Yes blocks were missed, reads were missed, but the overall product seems to produce points which is the goal of an offense.

 

[djr4rebs]

247
148
166
39
95
224
91
65
90
263
286

We had two terrible performances and three more that were subpar. In our case, we lost twice. In Iowa's, they lost each time they had terrible performances. Every Penn State fan is hoping for better OL play, but it is irrational to make a point using Iowa as your example in one game and ignoring the facts of their 5 losses. You won't even do that, opting to ignore the facts I presented for the ongoing conversation. Even in your deferment, I showed you that PSU won 3 of the 5 games with running woes; Iowa won 0.

 

[PSU20]

Good examples:
PSU 45 Ind 14 - PSU had a whooping 39 yards rushing against Indiana!

Against Rutgers, SB had 35 yards for a 2.5 average, against "Rutgers"

MSU - 65 yards total team rushing.

No one said that Iowa had a good OL this year, just that they were forced to start two freshman!

 

[djr4rebs]

Iowa each had two freshman starting on their OL's and they didn't have anywhere near the problems we had.

I find it hard to believe a team who lost 5 games had less trouble with their OL than a team who lost 2.

Good examples:
PSU 45 Ind 14 - PSU had a whooping 39 yards rushing against Indiana!

Against Rutgers, SB had 35 yards for a 2.5 average, against "Rutgers"

MSU - 65 yards total team rushing.

No one said that Iowa had a good OL this year, just that they were forced to start two freshman!

You said they had less trouble than us, and that they blocked really well vs OSU while ignoring 45% of their body of work. If you had refrained from implying that Iowa was doing better than us with two freshman OL, the rest of your initial post, while repetitive of common complaints, was fine. You can't imply the thrashing of the Buckeyes as proof and ignore the five losses (you even went as far as to say they were anecdotal because I had yet to provide the stats; I guess you could have but that would not help your narrative).