Sad Airbnb story

[bdgan]

I saw that family is suing Airbnb because their daughter died from fentanyl at a place they stayed.

Does the family have some responsibility to oversee what their child is getting into?

Does the owner have responsibility to make sure drugs are removed before renting out their home?

Owner relied on a property manager. Is he liable for missing a pill that was left on the floor between rentals?

How is Airbnb responsible? Very sad story but I can't see what Airbnb did except to have deep pockets.

 

[Obliviax]

I saw that family is suing Airbnb because their daughter died from fentanyl at a place they stayed.

Does the family have some responsibility to oversee what their child is getting into?

Does the owner have responsibility to make sure drugs are removed before renting out their home?

Owner relied on a property manager. Is he liable for missing a pill that was left on the floor between rentals?

How is Airbnb responsible? Very sad story but I can't see what Airbnb did except to have deep pockets.

oofta. awful.

IMHO, a lot depends on who was supposed to clean the place but missed the fentanyl. Other than that, what was known and should have been known come into play. My guess is that this will all be settled out of court with insurance paying most of it. A cautionary tale, to be sure.

 

[bdgan]

oofta. awful.

IMHO, a lot depends on who was supposed to clean the place but missed the fentanyl. Other than that, what was known and should have been known come into play. My guess is that this will all be settled out of court with insurance paying most of it. A cautionary tale, to be sure.

No criminal charges have been brought, and investigators were unable to find evidence of the drug in the vacation rental, according to the Post.

Awful is an understatement. I just don't understand liability. I'll guess that a single pill was dropped on the floor. How can an owner or property manager catch everything? And how would Airbnb know? This would have ramifications for hotels, public transit, etc.

Family Sues Airbnb, Property Owner After Toddler Dies of Fentanyl Overdose on Vacation

The family of a 19-month-old girl who died from fentanyl overdose while staying at an Airbnb rental in 2021 is opening up about their story

people.com

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

No criminal charges have been brought, and investigators were unable to find evidence of the drug in the vacation rental, according to the Post.

Awful is an understatement. I just don't understand liability. I'll guess that a single pill was dropped on the floor. How can an owner or property manager catch everything? And how would Airbnb know? This would have ramifications for hotels, public transit, etc.

Family Sues Airbnb, Property Owner After Toddler Dies of Fentanyl Overdose on Vacation

The family of a 19-month-old girl who died from fentanyl overdose while staying at an Airbnb rental in 2021 is opening up about their story

people.com

There are loads of hotels in East Tn that would be closed if we had government that seriously wanted to shut them down. The numerous arrests that take place at these hotels bring in arrest related income to the communities. It is crazy but county and local governments here perceive the fines as tax revenue.

One of the hotels named Hill Top, of the many of such named, is locally refered to as 'Pill Top' another 'Needle Nest'.
Incredible.

 

[Obliviax]

No criminal charges have been brought, and investigators were unable to find evidence of the drug in the vacation rental, according to the Post.

Awful is an understatement. I just don't understand liability. I'll guess that a single pill was dropped on the floor. How can an owner or property manager catch everything? And how would Airbnb know? This would have ramifications for hotels, public transit, etc.

Family Sues Airbnb, Property Owner After Toddler Dies of Fentanyl Overdose on Vacation

The family of a 19-month-old girl who died from fentanyl overdose while staying at an Airbnb rental in 2021 is opening up about their story

people.com

A lot depends on the state and the jury. What is reasonable in terms of avoidance? A renter rents with the feeling that it isn't dangerous. The renter/AirBnb rent with a reasonable assurance that their home isn't a death trap. A big question is who was supposed to ensure that the home met all the reasonable assurances? An example is a CO2 detector. In almost every state, a home has to have working CO2 detectors. If they weren't working and a person died as a result, that would be criminal and other would be a substantial civil penalty awarded. But if a house is up to regulations and someone trips on well-maintained and compliant steps and dies, that is not a home-owner's problem.

A second issue is bad PR. Lawyers don't often understand the value of bad PR. You can be 100% protected by the law, as a business owners, but the suit can bring such bad PR that you are better off to negotiate a hefty settlement. In this case, this could be such bad PR that ABnB would consider paying the renters off just to make this go away rather than have a protracted court case in the news for the next two years

 

[Delco Lion]

No criminal charges have been brought, and investigators were unable to find evidence of the drug in the vacation rental, according to the Post.

Awful is an understatement. I just don't understand liability. I'll guess that a single pill was dropped on the floor. How can an owner or property manager catch everything? And how would Airbnb know? This would have ramifications for hotels, public transit, etc.

Family Sues Airbnb, Property Owner After Toddler Dies of Fentanyl Overdose on Vacation

The family of a 19-month-old girl who died from fentanyl overdose while staying at an Airbnb rental in 2021 is opening up about their story

people.com

I assume the child came in contact with crushed up fentanyl crystal/powder residue. Probably barely visible.

 

[voltz99]

oofta. awful.

IMHO, a lot depends on who was supposed to clean the place but missed the fentanyl. Other than that, what was known and should have been known come into play. My guess is that this will all be settled out of court with insurance paying most of it. A cautionary tale, to be sure.

Problem is fen5anyl is so potent a tiny bit can kill a lot of people. It is not like missing a pizza box.

 

[Obliviax]

Problem is fen5anyl is so potent a tiny bit can kill a lot of people. It is not like missing a pizza box.

correct...but good luck to AirBnb and their business model if people start to think they can get killed renting a home if the person before was a fent addict. I can't imagine it was on purpose or negligent...but can imagine ABnB wants to get this out of the news ASAP.

 

[bdgan]

correct...but good luck to AirBnb and their business model if people start to think they can get killed renting a home if the person before was a fent addict. I can't imagine it was on purpose or negligent...but can imagine ABnB wants to get this out of the news ASAP.

We don't even know if the child actually got it on the property they were renting. But if they did it might have been extremely difficult for the cleaners, property manager, or owners to detect.

A hospital recovery center near me brought dogs in to visit patients. A dog died because he swallowed a blood pressure pill somebody dropped. No huge lawsuit because it was a dog.

 

[bdgan]

correct...but good luck to AirBnb and their business model if people start to think they can get killed renting a home if the person before was a fent addict.

Or if they can be held liable for something they have no control over.

 

[bison13]

It's funny the people who dont think Fent coming across the border is an issue. The county/state is sending people to every HS in montgomery county md to talk to kids about it. There have been so many issues from the busloads of people dropped in this sanctuary county that they are finally realizing how bad it is.

 

[Obliviax]

It's funny the people who dont think Fent coming across the border is an issue. The county/state is sending people to every HS in montgomery county md to talk to kids about it. There have been so many issues from the busloads of people dropped in this sanctuary county that they are finally realizing how bad it is.

there is a push, in Ohio, to make selling Fent tantamount to manslaughter. Just selling it will get you 20 years.

 

[voltz99]

correct...but good luck to AirBnb and their business model if people start to think they can get killed renting a home if the person before was a fent addict. I can't imagine it was on purpose or negligent...but can imagine ABnB wants to get this out of the news ASAP.

Is there any business model not affected? Cops have ODd just making an arrest. The kid could come in contact with fentanyl anywhere. It could have been at a fast food, playground, grocery store, ect. The police did not even find any evidence the fentanyl was in the AirBB.

 

[Lion84]

cases like this are why I don’t understand why controlling the border is such a political issue - with the way it is it is damn near impossible to even slow down the drug flow into the country. Not having a clue who enters your country is just insane.

 

[PS4814]

This fentanyl crap is everywhere these days. Story out of Montgomery County.

"Buyer beware": Montgomery County DA issues warning after 2 overdose on THC edibles

Two people overdosed from eating Delta 8 THC edibles that appeared to contain fentanyl, warned Montgomery County DA Kevin Steele.

6abc.com

Montgomery County District Attorney Kevin Steele provided an update Monday after two people overdosed from eating THC edibles. Steele said it is "buyer beware" when it comes to certain THC gummies. The gummies are cannabis products infused with THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, which can legally be sold in Pennsylvania. Two people overdosed from eating Delta 8 THC edibles that appeared to contain fentanyl, Steele said Friday. The laced edibles were sold at three Tobacco Hut stores across the county. Steele said Monday that initial testing of over 100 products seized after the overdoses found the presence of one or more controlled substances in some of the edibles but not in all of them.

Also on the topic of the border a youtuber named Peter Santenello has done some really amazing on location videos from as much of a neutral standpoint as I've seen, maybe slightly right leaning but not off the deep end. In his most recent couple he rode (and filmed) along with the Sheriff from Yuma Arizona. Check it out if you have some time.

 

[LionDeNittany]

I saw that family is suing Airbnb because their daughter died from fentanyl at a place they stayed.

Does the family have some responsibility to oversee what their child is getting into?

Does the owner have responsibility to make sure drugs are removed before renting out their home?

Owner relied on a property manager. Is he liable for missing a pill that was left on the floor between rentals?

How is Airbnb responsible? Very sad story but I can't see what Airbnb did except to have deep pockets.

They are suing AirBnB because if they weren't you would never hear of this story.

AirBnB has deep pockets and will settle so this goes away.

I'd argue that this is a tough case. How can you prove the pill was at the rental?

 

[LionDeNittany]

there is a push, in Ohio, to make selling Fent tantamount to manslaughter. Just selling it will get you 20 years.

That would be great for the for profit prison system.

Not sure it helps anyone or anywhere else.

The average dealer has no concept of what that means.

 

[Obliviax]

That would be great for the for profit prison system.

Not sure it helps anyone or anywhere else.

The average dealer has no concept of what that means.

I agree with you, for the most part. What is the difference between five and 20 years? I don't think people think about that. On the other hand, Fent is a low cost drug. If you are dealing, you may consider leaving that out of your business plan. Lots of these sentences give prosecutors tools to make people flip. Perhaps a 20 year sentence will make a low to mid level dealer flip on a high level dealer or source to get a lower sentence. I don't know. What I do know is fent is killing people at a high rate and action needs to be taken.

 

[LionDeNittany]

I agree with you, for the most part. What is the difference between five and 20 years? I don't think people think about that. On the other hand, Fent is a low cost drug. If you are dealing, you may consider leaving that out of your business plan. Lots of these sentences give prosecutors tools to make people flip. Perhaps a 20 year sentence will make a low to mid level dealer flip on a high level dealer or source to get a lower sentence. I don't know. What I do know is fent is killing people at a high rate and action needs to be taken.

I agree with the last part.
But 20 years for selling is insane.

Once 20 years is on the table you will get a lot of people admitting to crimes they did not commit.

Reminds me of the 'Drug Free School Zone' when cops would park a school bus in an area before busting a dealer so they could hold 6 years over his head instead of 3.

Similar with 'hate crimes'. All ways for prosecutors to force confessions by holding ridiculous sentences over people's heads.

LdN

 

[fastlax16]

How can you prove the pill was at the rental?

Doesn’t need to be in a pill. Cocaine gets laced with it as well and they’ve confirmed prior guests were using it. Could have been powder spilled in a carpet.

As for proof it was inside the unit. They’d probably need to prove some sort of timeline. How much fentanyl did the baby ingest and how long would it take for that to kill them? If they’d been home for 3 hours and the dosage would be fatal in 30 minutes you’ve got your proof unless you want to argue the baby found it and saved it for later.

 

[LionDeNittany]

Doesn’t need to be in a pill. Cocaine gets laced with it as well and they’ve confirmed prior guests were using it. Could have been powder spilled in a carpet.

As for proof it was inside the unit. They’d probably need to prove some sort of timeline. How much fentanyl did the baby ingest and how long would it take for that to kill them? If they’d been home for 3 hours and the dosage would be fatal in 30 minutes you’ve got your proof unless you want to argue the baby found it and saved it for later.

On that part about the timeline, you get your expert and I get mine. They will habe 180 degree different answers.

 

[fastlax16]

On that part about the timeline, you get your expert and I get mine. They will habe 180 degree different answers.

Which is true but depends on how long the timeline is. It generally kills pretty quickly if you od, in as little as 2 minutes, from what I understand. if they’d been home for several hours your expert might come off as disingenuous arguing it could have been ingested 6 hours before death when they were somewhere else. If they’d just gotten back obviously it’s different.

You asked how they would prove it and that’s really the only way until they find the source. I didn’t say it would be successful.

 

[LionDeNittany]

Which is true but depends on how long the timeline is. It generally kills pretty quickly if you od, in as little as 2 minutes, from what I understand. if they’d been home for several hours your expert might come off as disingenuous arguing it could have been ingested 6 hours before death when they were somewhere else. If they’d just gotten back obviously it’s different.

You asked how they would prove it and that’s really the only way until they find the source. I didn’t say it would be successful.

Yes. I understand.
My guess is AirBnB settles. Just to get this out of the press.

LdN

 

[bdgan]

That would be great for the for profit prison system.

Not sure it helps anyone or anywhere else.

The average dealer has no concept of what that means.

You might have a point. I remember reading a study a few years ago that said criminals consider the likelihood of getting caught, not the severity of the penalty.

Regarding prisons.... I don't understand why they cost the taxpayers so much. I do understand that government run prisons have much higher pay and benefits (cost to taxpayers) and that's why some states outsource to private prisons. But here's my issue. Why aren't non violent prisoners put to work to cover the cost of their incarceration? I suspect one reason is that unions would see it as an infringement on their union jobs. Why doesn't the government sell prison labor to the private sector? At least the prisoners are paying their way and they come out with some work skills. I know some of this is done in agriculture but it's controversial because some view it as slave labor.

 

[LionDeNittany]

You might have a point. I remember reading a study a few years ago that said criminals consider the likelihood of getting caught, not the severity of the penalty.

Regarding prisons.... I don't understand why they cost the taxpayers so much. I do understand that government run prisons have much higher pay and benefits (cost to taxpayers) and that's why some states outsource to private prisons. But here's my issue. Why aren't non violent prisoners put to work to cover the cost of their incarceration? I suspect one reason is that unions would see it as an infringement on their union jobs. Why doesn't the government sell prison labor to the private sector? At least the prisoners are paying their way and they come out with some work skills. I know some of this is done in agriculture but it's controversial because some view it as slave labor.

Well making them work has its own set of problems. You can see many of them in Shawshank.

But why does it cost so much? That's easy. It is a function of government and this is ridiculously overpriced.

Once it goes private yoh have situations like the PA judge story a few years back.

I understand the need to incarcerate people. But the fact is that people need to understand there is a massive financial benefit on both sides. Longer sentences and shorter ones... private vs public.

The crime is often an afterthought in that money game.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Well making them work has its own set of problems. You can see many of them in Shawshank.

But why does it cost so much? That's easy. It is a function of government and this is ridiculously overpriced.

Once it goes private yoh have situations like the PA judge story a few years back.

I understand the need to incarcerate people. But the fact is that people need to understand there is a massive financial benefit on both sides. Longer sentences and shorter ones... private vs public.

The crime is often an afterthought in that money game.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Nice theory, but in practice privatization has driven up the cost of incarcerating prisoners and a few States that have instituted this. It has always amazed me when people propose another layer of administration, audits, extra links in a chain, that invite more to the table to add to lawsuits as a means of cutting cost.

 

[joeaubie21]

The size of a pin head can kill. Victim dependent.

 

[Obliviax]

Sounds like the case will get thrown out. There is, apparently, no evidence that it came from the house. The only evidence is that the house was used as a "party house" previously. But there is no evidence of the drug being there. At the same time, no drugs were found in the parents or in their blood. So nobody knows how the drug got into the 21-month-old child. They are claiming it is the only place that wasn't known to be clean.

 

[voltz99]

Nice theory, but in practice privatization has driven up the cost of incarcerating prisoners and a few States that have instituted this. It has always amazed me when people propose another layer of administration, audits, extra links in a chain, that invite more to the table to add to lawsuits as a means of cutting cost.

I can solve that problem. Use the death penalty. We can also put convicted criminals to work. Make them repay their debt to society while rebuilding our infrastructure for FREE.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

I can solve that problem. Use the death penalty. We can also put convicted criminals to work. Make them repay their debt to society while rebuilding our infrastructure for FREE.

Bwahaha same old failed bs driving us into oblivion.

 

[The Spin Meister]

The size of a pin head can kill. Victim dependent.

And that for adults. Imagine how small a dose would kill a toddler.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

A special of battery acid will kill a toddler... A curd of Green candy or Ramik.... So, it goes.

 

[bourbon n blues]

Make it 40.