Football Rivals Analysts react to the news of Franklin staying at PSU

[Richie O]

Happy Valley Insider - Rivals Analysts react to the news of James Franklin staying at Penn State

Some of the top guns from around the Rivals Network react to the new of James Franklin staying in Penn State.

pennstate.rivals.com

 

[LMTLION]

Those analysts obviously did not consult the real experts posting on our message board. 🤪

 

[blmr31]

Exactly, a small bunch of dolts on this board completely shot down by those in the know. Maybe they can create their own little Mom's boy in the basement club.

 

[SR108]

Happy Valley Insider - Rivals Analysts react to the news of James Franklin staying at Penn State

Some of the top guns from around the Rivals Network react to the new of James Franklin staying in Penn State.

pennstate.rivals.com

The only real question in my mind is 10 years.

 

[psu1969a]

My question revolves around a $500,000 retention bonus if you signed a 10 year contract with fairly restrictive buyout figures.

 

[heckmans]

Those analysts obviously did not consult the real experts posting on our message board. 🤪

I don't think those analysts contradicted most of the criticism that most PSU fans have. Notice that not one of the analysts said Franklin was a good 'football' coach. The praise was for recruiting, personality, and stability. I'm not part of the Fire Franklin crowd, but that doesn't mean I don't see his shortcomings as a game-day coach and suggest that a $7.5M guy should be better at executed the PRIMARY part of his job. It's fair to say that Franklin has not performed well against teams with similar talent. When there is same/similar talent, coaching (ie scheme, game management) becomes significant. Based on his 8 year track record, it's fair to say that Franklin gets out-coached regularly.

I think Gorney provides a good assessment


NATIONAL RECRUITING DIRECTOR ADAM GORNEY: "In a year where the coaching carousel has been kicked into high gear and there are significant changes being made across the country, stability at Penn State could be really important for recruiting and keeping a coaching staff together. That was not always certain with Franklin, who was rumored for many openings and possible openings and when he switched to a new agent there were definitely a lot of rumors flying. There have been some critics of Franklin, some of it justified, some of it not and he does need to do better against highly-rated teams. But stability is important as high-profile jobs become open and it will only help recruiting which has always been a strong suit of Franklin during his tenure in Happy Valley."

 

[doctornick]

The only real question in my mind is 10 years.

Agree. A long term commitment makes sense for all parties and should help with stability and the perpetual "will he go?" discussions but I think it would have been achieved with a 7 or 8 year deal. 10 years is a lot of money the school now has an obligation to pay.

 

[bvillebaron]

I don't think those analysts contradicted most of the criticism that most PSU fans have. Notice that not one of the analysts said Franklin was a good 'football' coach. The praise was for recruiting, personality, and stability. I'm not part of the Fire Franklin crowd, but that doesn't mean I don't see his shortcomings as a game-day coach and suggest that a $7.5M guy should be better at executed the PRIMARY part of his job. It's fair to say that Franklin has not performed well against teams with similar talent. When there is same/similar talent, coaching (ie scheme, game management) becomes significant. Based on his 8 year track record, it's fair to say that Franklin gets out-coached regularly.

I think Gorney provides a good assessment


NATIONAL RECRUITING DIRECTOR ADAM GORNEY: "In a year where the coaching carousel has been kicked into high gear and there are significant changes being made across the country, stability at Penn State could be really important for recruiting and keeping a coaching staff together. That was not always certain with Franklin, who was rumored for many openings and possible openings and when he switched to a new agent there were definitely a lot of rumors flying. There have been some critics of Franklin, some of it justified, some of it not and he does need to do better against highly-rated teams. But stability is important as high-profile jobs become open and it will only help recruiting which has always been a strong suit of Franklin during his tenure in Happy Valley."

Please provide me with a specific example of any in game decision Franklin made this year which determined the outcome of a game. Based on his 8 year track record, it’s fair to state he gets outcoached regularly. But of course the performance of the players don’t have a damn thing to do with the outcome of the game.

 

[SUPERTODD]

Please provide me with a specific example of any in game decision Franklin made this year which determined the outcome of a game. Based on his 8 year track record, it’s fair to state he gets outcoached regularly. But of course the performance of the players don’t have a damn thing to do with the outcome of the game.

Playing Roberson against Iowa instead of Villieux. It cost us the game. Playing an injured Clifford over Villieux. It cost us the season.

 

[fastlax16]

The only real question in my mind is 10 years.

Symbolic.

 

[fastlax16]

Playing Roberson against Iowa instead of Villieux. It cost us the game. Playing an injured Clifford over Villieux. It code us the season.

Christian looked good, no doubt. But Rutgers at home with good starting field position isn't a good barometer for how he would have fared at Iowa with starting field position basically in our own end zone. That said, couldn't have gone worse than it did. Won't argue about Illinois. Would have also given Cliff another week to rest for OSU.

 

[heckmans]

Please provide me with a specific example of any in game decision Franklin made this year which determined the outcome of a game. Based on his 8 year track record, it’s fair to state he gets outcoached regularly. But of course the performance of the players don’t have a damn thing to do with the outcome of the game.

I'm not sure what point you are arguing. In fact, you seem to be agreeing with me.

 

[Wallace Breen]

Happy Valley Insider - Rivals Analysts react to the news of James Franklin staying at Penn State

Some of the top guns from around the Rivals Network react to the new of James Franklin staying in Penn State.

pennstate.rivals.com

I agree with just about everything said here. The big issue with Franklin is his football philosophy. It is a self imposed ceiling and will continue to prevent dear old state from getting over the hump. An extension is unlikely to put a stop to his constant whining about assistant pay (they haven't earned it) or unnecessary facility upgrades. Bottom line, he has been given everything he need and more to get it done but his limitations continue to stand in the way.

 

[Ohio_Pirate]

I agree with just about everything said here. The big issue with Franklin is his football philosophy. It is a self imposed ceiling and will continue to prevent dear old state from getting over the hump. An extension is unlikely to put a stop to his constant whining about assistant pay (they haven't earned it) or unnecessary facility upgrades. Bottom line, he has been given everything he need and more to get it done but his limitations continue to stand in the way.

LOL. You must have linked the wrong article because absolutley nothing you say is mentioned or justified by any of these Rivals analysts. But glad you agree with everything said there!

 

[heckmans]

Playing Roberson against Iowa instead of Villieux. It cost us the game. Playing an injured Clifford over Villieux. It code us the season.

Humbly, I don't think this is fair.
Iowa on the road, early in the season. Tough for any player to get their first real game action, let alone a true freshman
Conversely, Rutgers at home, at the end of the season, after weeks of getting reps...against RUTGRES is very different.
Further, CV came in, in relief. Rutgers had no film on him or reason to think he would he would be playing. Did I mention it was Rutgers. If CV plays this week in East Lansing, you'll see a much different result from a better defense that has more film than ZERO.

Now, there is a bigger issue here that shouldn't be ignored. 2021 is Roberson 3rd year in the program and with Levis leaving, was the obvious choice at QB2 going into the season. At some point prior to Iowa City this year, TR should have gotten some snaps...Ball State, Villanova, and Indiana all provided some oppty to get TR some in-game passing reps. I do understand wanting to give the 1st team offense as much work together in a new offense prior to tougher games, but this has been a theme for Franklin's entire tenure. It's not unique to 2020 and 2021. Depth throughout the roster was exposed this year, but none greater than at QB.

 

[danvillenit]

In game decisions and clock management are always overrated by fans relative to the impact on the game. It is something that is easy to second guess after the fact but rarely is the difference between winning and losing.

also, fans look at decisions as static events. For example, if the team kicked the field goal at the end of the half they wouldn’t have lost by two points. It assumes they make the FG and neither team would have done anything different the entire second half despite a different score

 

[MaconNitt]

Christian looked good, no doubt. But Rutgers at home with good starting field position isn't a good barometer for how he would have fared at Iowa with starting field position basically in our own end zone. That said, couldn't have gone worse than it did. Won't argue about Illinois. Would have also given Cliff another week to rest for OSU.

this, plus the fact that he was arrested for pot possession in June may have had him in the doghouse or on double secret probation

 

[SUPERTODD]

Humbly, I don't think this is fair.
Iowa on the road, early in the season. Tough for any player to get their first real game action, let alone a true freshman
Conversely, Rutgers at home, at the end of the season, after weeks of getting reps...against RUTGRES is very different.
Further, CV came in, in relief. Rutgers had no film on him or reason to think he would he would be playing. Did I mention it was Rutgers. If CV plays this week in East Lansing, you'll see a much different result from a better defense that has more film than ZERO.

Now, there is a bigger issue here that shouldn't be ignored. 2021 is Roberson 3rd year in the program and with Levis leaving, was the obvious choice at QB2 going into the season. At some point prior to Iowa City this year, TR should have gotten some snaps...Ball State, Villanova, and Indiana all provided some oppty to get TR some in-game passing reps. I do understand wanting to give the 1st team offense as much work together in a new offense prior to tougher games, but this has been a theme for Franklin's entire tenure. It's not unique to 2020 and 2021. Depth throughout the roster was exposed this year, but none greater than at QB.

I think it can be argued that Christian might not have been able to come in during the Iowa game and light them up. It is hard to imagine he could have looked worse than Roberson. Not sure who is responsible for watching practice and evaluating QB play but these are top professional coaches. Either their evaluation of Roberson was so far off that someone should be fired or their ability to prepare a player to make a meaningful contribution in pressure-packed situation is so poor someone should be fired.

 

[MaconNitt]

I think it can be argued that Christian might not have been able to come in during the Iowa game and light them up. It is hard to imagine he could have looked worse than Roberson. Not sure who is responsible for watching practice and evaluating QB play but these are top professional coaches. Either their evaluation of Roberson was so far off that someone should be fired or their ability to prepare a player to make a meaningful contribution in pressure-packed situation is so poor someone should be fired.

there is a big difference between practice and real game experience in a hostile environment. obviously Roberson was not ready for that....so lets fire someone

 

[LMTLION]

there is a big difference between practice and real game experience in a hostile environment. obviously Roberson was not ready for that....so lets fire someone

You just never know until they get into a game. I am sure that Trace was never a Heisman winning practice quarterback, but put him in a game and he shines with his grit and confidence. Some people truly just crumble under pressure. Roberson may simply not have ‘it’ mentally to succeed in a game but may have looked good in practice. On a scale of 1 to 10 he performed at a 1 in that game, and merely a three or four would probably have won that game against Iowa.

 

[fastlax16]

there is a big difference between practice and real game experience in a hostile environment. obviously Roberson was not ready for that....so lets fire someone

Especiallly when he was 4th string until earlier this year and the other backup is a true freshman who was arrested over the summer.

 

[PSU Mike]

Those analysts obviously did not consult the real experts posting on our message board. 🤪

Oh look, you’re brilliant now. It is all symbolic as far as being designed to retain him without a renegotiation. We’ll see how stable we are in two years if he manages to do something big. It’s already gonna be tough to make a run next year. If he manages to make one the following year, with the lowering of the buyout he’ll be mentioned for any high profile opening again. I’m thinking it all “works out,” meaning we average 9.x wins/year and it’s not enough after 10-12 years of not getting over the hump that he’ll be the top name for a top-10 gig, but not bad enough that there will be any serious firing threat. If that’s considered good for PSU in your eyes then we’re thinking differently.

I think he’s worthy of a new deal, but I’d rather it had been more incentive laden with a higher buyout to leave and a lower bill if he fails. I’m okay with him getting a $9MM base with a chance to make $12MM if we could dump him for less if it goes the wrong direction.

 

[elfman]

I’m sorry but this is a horrible contract.

After the mediocrity of the past 2 seasons, I was lamenting that he was signed through 2025, and hoping that if things didn’t improve over the next couple seasons the administration would have the guts to buy him out.

Now there is no way to get rid of him for a long time, and he can leave easily enough in just a few years.

I think it’s time to officially change the football program’s motto to “Penn State football: We strive for mediocrity but we’ll settle for less.”

 

[jbenedict]

Bet! He will be renegotiating his 10 year contract next year.

 

[LMTLION]

I don't think those analysts contradicted most of the criticism that most PSU fans have. Notice that not one of the analysts said Franklin was a good 'football' coach. The praise was for recruiting, personality, and stability. I'm not part of the Fire Franklin crowd, but that doesn't mean I don't see his shortcomings as a game-day coach and suggest that a $7.5M guy should be better at executed the PRIMARY part of his job. It's fair to say that Franklin has not performed well against teams with similar talent. When there is same/similar talent, coaching (ie scheme, game management) becomes significant. Based on his 8 year track record, it's fair to say that Franklin gets out-coached regularly.

I think Gorney provides a good assessment


NATIONAL RECRUITING DIRECTOR ADAM GORNEY: "In a year where the coaching carousel has been kicked into high gear and there are significant changes being made across the country, stability at Penn State could be really important for recruiting and keeping a coaching staff together. That was not always certain with Franklin, who was rumored for many openings and possible openings and when he switched to a new agent there were definitely a lot of rumors flying. There have been some critics of Franklin, some of it justified, some of it not and he does need to do better against highly-rated teams. But stability is important as high-profile jobs become open and it will only help recruiting which has always been a strong suit of Franklin during his tenure in Happy Valley."

My post is in response to the idea that we could do better with a different coach. College football has changed dramatically since Paterno's prime years. First, it is definitively closer to semi-pro ball now. That transition away from the "student athlete" happened in the 90s, and perhaps even started in the 80s. Franklin to his credit continues to try to maintain a student athlete culture. We will never be as consistent as an Alabama or Ohio State without sacrificing that to some degree and this is probably the reason why truly we have been truly special (at an Alabama level) only twice since the 90s. I am not sure that is that our alumni-base wants us to sacrifice the idea of the student athlete. I do think Franklin performs at a level that a serious run at the playoffs can occur once every 4 years, and a run at an NY6 bowl is possible most years (throw out the 2020 covid year, it is meaningless.) While we all fantasize about being as consistent as an Alabama, I am ok where we are now.
Secondly, the reality is that PA is not what it was for high school football talent. Particularly western PA is a shell of what it was in the 60s, 70s, and 80s for high school football as the youth population out there has fallen off the cliff. Eastern PA from Harrisburg to the east is still pretty solid, but the reality is that PA football overall is not what it was. NJ, MD, and OH still seem pretty strong, but recruiting has turned into a national effort. Joe started to face that as well in the final 10 years or so and Franklin pretty much has to recruit nationally and quite frankly international as he goes into Canada now!
I think Franklin is a great representative of the university, puts kids into the NFL (the reason why they are here, not school) and has brought the program back from the brink of ruin. Yes, I think he does occasionally suffer from a bit of in-game anxiety in big games. That is the only point I will concede and honestly it may not be completely fixable. He may need to learn to trust his assistants in those situations. But overall, I think he is fantastic for the program. Quite frankly, who the hell else is out there? Seriously.

 

[bvillebaron]

I'm not sure what point you are arguing. In fact, you seem to be agreeing with me.

Really? Why don’t you put on your thinking cap and try again. You could start by answering my question.

 

[bvillebaron]

I think it can be argued that Christian might not have been able to come in during the Iowa game and light them up. It is hard to imagine he could have looked worse than Roberson. Not sure who is responsible for watching practice and evaluating QB play but these are top professional coaches. Either their evaluation of Roberson was so far off that someone should be fired or their ability to prepare a player to make a meaningful contribution in pressure-packed situation is so poor someone should be fired.

Or maybe the coaches were right and CV wasn’t ready to play against Iowa. As one of the other posters said, there is a big difference between playing Rutgers at home and Iowa on the road. Roberson was not good but the false starts and dropped passes sure didn’t help.

 

[heckmans]

My post is in response to the idea that we could do better with a different coach. College football has changed dramatically since Paterno's prime years. First, it is definitively closer to semi-pro ball now. That transition away from the "student athlete" happened in the 90s, and perhaps even started in the 80s. Franklin to his credit continues to try to maintain a student athlete culture. We will never be as consistent as an Alabama or Ohio State without sacrificing that to some degree and this is probably the reason why truly we have been truly special (at an Alabama level) only twice since the 90s. I am not sure that is that our alumni-base wants us to sacrifice the idea of the student athlete. I do think Franklin performs at a level that a serious run at the playoffs can occur once every 4 years, and a run at an NY6 bowl is possible most years (throw out the 2020 covid year, it is meaningless.) While we all fantasize about being as consistent as an Alabama, I am ok where we are now.
Secondly, the reality is that PA is not what it was for high school football talent. Particularly western PA is a shell of what it was in the 60s, 70s, and 80s for high school football as the youth population out there has fallen off the cliff. Eastern PA from Harrisburg to the east is still pretty solid, but the reality is that PA football overall is not what it was. NJ, MD, and OH still seem pretty strong, but recruiting has turned into a national effort. Joe started to face that as well in the final 10 years or so and Franklin pretty much has to recruit nationally and quite frankly international as he goes into Canada now!
I think Franklin is a great representative of the university, puts kids into the NFL (the reason why they are here, not school) and has brought the program back from the brink of ruin. Yes, I think he does occasionally suffer from a bit of in-game anxiety in big games. That is the only point I will concede and honestly it may not be completely fixable. He may need to learn to trust his assistants in those situations. But overall, I think he is fantastic for the program. Quite frankly, who the hell else is out there? Seriously.

I agree with your post..playing devils advocate on your last sentence, it's fair to point out that James Franklin wasn't "out there" until he was hired by PSU.

 

[heckmans]

Really? Why don’t you put on your thinking cap and try again. You could start by answering my question.

I really don't understand your hostility. I stated that Franklin gets outcoached and has a poor result against teams of similar talent levels. You stated that Franklin has generally gotten outcoached during his 8 years at PSU. We seem to be in agreement. What point are you trying to get at here? What did I say that you disagree with?

 

[Cowbell Man]

Symbolic.

Yes…with the buyout for other schools to try to sign him, if he is successful here in the next two years they will be at the door in year three with a $6M buyout.

on the other hand, they have match or raise the value of the remaining contract life…about $56M at that time, for him to leave.

Regardless, if he is succeeding, plan on the merry go round again in 2024.

If he isn’t doing well on the field, he won’t be bought out by PSU for $56M so he would be here to stay for a while. To do well next year he will have to finish with a flourish because the 6 game start is ugly.

 

[fastlax16]

Yes…with the buyout for other schools to try to sign him, if he is successful here in the next two years they will be at the door in year three with a $6M buyout.

on the other hand, they have match or raise the value of the remaining contract life…about $56M at that time, for him to leave.

Regardless, if he is succeeding, plan on the merry go round again in 2024.

If he isn’t doing well on the field, he won’t be bought out by PSU for $56M so he would be here to stay for a while. To do well next year he will have to finish with a flourish because the 6 game start is ugly.

So hard to predict things so far in advance with the portal, questions around the qb position with Clifford possibly returning and there potentially being some good transfer options with most of the traditional powers looking like theyre set at starter in 22 at first glance.

Michigan was ass last season and now they're knocking on the playoffs door. There are ways to plug holes quickly that didnt exist even just a few years ago. The Riley move could put Williams, Rattler and Dart on the move. Myles Brennan out of LSU could be a solid 1 year guy. One of the UF qbs probably moves on.

If (and its a big if) they can figure out the O-Line, next year doesnt need to be a train wreck. I guess the bright side is that I'm not sure how the OL could possibly play worse unless they never get out of their stances.

 

[LMTLION]

So hard to predict things so far in advance with the portal, questions around the qb position with Clifford possibly returning and there potentially being some good transfer options with most of the traditional powers looking like theyre set at starter in 22 at first glance.

Michigan was ass last season and now they're knocking on the playoffs door. There are ways to plug holes quickly that didnt exist even just a few years ago. The Riley move could put Williams, Rattler and Dart on the move. Myles Brennan out of LSU could be a solid 1 year guy. One of the UF qbs probably moves on.

If (and its a big if) they can figure out the O-Line, next year doesnt need to be a train wreck. I guess the bright side is that I'm not sure how the OL could possibly play worse unless they never get out of their stances.

Let’s be fair. The pass blocking was pretty good this year. It was the run blocking that royally sucked, and it was not just the OL. Our TEs routinely missed blocks as well. How often I saw the TE go the opposite direction as the designed run.

 

[N&B4PSU]

I don't think those analysts contradicted most of the criticism that most PSU fans have. Notice that not one of the analysts said Franklin was a good 'football' coach. The praise was for recruiting, personality, and stability. I'm not part of the Fire Franklin crowd, but that doesn't mean I don't see his shortcomings as a game-day coach and suggest that a $7.5M guy should be better at executed the PRIMARY part of his job. It's fair to say that Franklin has not performed well against teams with similar talent. When there is same/similar talent, coaching (ie scheme, game management) becomes significant. Based on his 8 year track record, it's fair to say that Franklin gets out-coached regularly.

I think Gorney provides a good assessment


NATIONAL RECRUITING DIRECTOR ADAM GORNEY: "In a year where the coaching carousel has been kicked into high gear and there are significant changes being made across the country, stability at Penn State could be really important for recruiting and keeping a coaching staff together. That was not always certain with Franklin, who was rumored for many openings and possible openings and when he switched to a new agent there were definitely a lot of rumors flying. There have been some critics of Franklin, some of it justified, some of it not and he does need to do better against highly-rated teams. But stability is important as high-profile jobs become open and it will only help recruiting which has always been a strong suit of Franklin during his tenure in Happy Valley."

End of the day, does he keep the great '22 recruiting class? If yes and and '23's class is successful (maybe some nice portal add-ons), then by '24 he should be producing a high end product. He does that, all is well. If not...

But it starts with keeping the '22 kids in place... a large part of why I think they went ahead and "locked" him down.

 

[97Lion]

Agree. This is a long term commitment only for the school, not for JF:

James Franklin’s 100 Games and Penn State Contract: I Crunched the Numbers so You Don’t Have to

This was a big week, both good and bad, for James Franklin and Penn State. Franklin, who is in his eighth season at PSU, signed a six-year contract

www.statecollege.com