Read this article and tell me what you think about Imhotep Charter School
- Thread starter EPC FAN
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As with many good ideas, people quickly figure a way to make money from that idea. Maybe the Charter Schools were developed as a money making scheme to start with. In either case, people are making big bucks and others are getting screwed in the name of educating our young people. As far as sports, the PIAA needs to get hold of these recruiting schools and put them in their own category. They are killing high school football as we used to know it.
Never expected to see a PIAA Championship game in which Erie Cathedral Prep looked like they were 2 classes below their opponent. That was not a fair fight last night.
Interesting article. Not a fan of charters one bit. They suck the lifeblood out of the public school system and, by and large, underperform academically. I wonder how Shaka Toney's grades are after reading the proficiency levels at Imhotep?
Wrong. The public schools went down the toilet on their own which is what opened the doors for charters. The public schools went down the toilet FIRST and then the charters started opening.
The Philly voters destroyed the schools. They were more interested in protecting the violent kids than the masses. In Philly you have teachers getting knocked out. Bartram had teachers knocked out two weeks in a row. A cop was found dead at George Washington HS last year.
Can you tell us which public high schools in Philly had the lifeblood sucked out of them? They were problem schools BEFORE the charters.
In the 50s Philly had a total of ZERO school cops. Now they have 650 full time school cops. The cops are not there to protect the students. The cops are there to protect the teachers FROM the students. That is Philly's idea of progress.
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Parkland, one of the best schools in the state, has a full time police officer in the high school. Parkland School District consists of South Whitehall Twp, North Whitehall Twp, and Upper Macungie Twp. Not exactly inner city America.
I would agree. Looked up some things about Imhotep online to try and base an opinion on at least a little more than 1 article. What hit me is that most of the places that had links to PA Dept of Education reviews were a mess- lots of BS but no direct link to any meaningful reports. Did notice the 1 link of the Philadelphia schools and there was waaaay more red 'corrective action taken' labels for the public schools (listed individually) than any green 'met standards' ones. I certainly see why parents there look for alternatives.
Late wife taught in the Philadelphia school system for 40 years. A major problem from day one 1962. Was underfunding and a refusal to recognize a need for very early intervention.
Philadelphia was undergoing another major influx of blacks from the south.
Many of them functionally illiterate. Products of separate but equal school that had no interest in educating them.
Their aspirations for their children were no different than most of ours. Unfortunately they could not help at home. Could not provide the enrichment we take forbgrantedl.
Charter schools were not created to educate but to find ways to publicly fund the schools set up to prevent integration in the South.
Then the entrepreneurs found the fountain of money.
Philadelphia was undergoing another major influx of blacks from the south.
Many of them functionally illiterate. Products of separate but equal school that had no interest in educating them.
Their aspirations for their children were no different than most of ours. Unfortunately they could not help at home. Could not provide the enrichment we take forbgrantedl.
Charter schools were not created to educate but to find ways to publicly fund the schools set up to prevent integration in the South.
Then the entrepreneurs found the fountain of money.
It is actually considered a pretty good school. I never hear any negative Imhotep stories on the news. You would campout for three days to get your kid into a lottery for a 1 in a 100 chance to send your kid to Imhotep instead of sending them to a typical public school.
Funding is NOT the problem. Philly had a $3.2 billion budget for 160k kids under Ackerman. How many millions did Philly pay Ackerman to leave? That fountain of money you referenced was flowing long before the charters.
Philly has THOUSANDS of unnecessary people on the payroll. Philly has 18,000+ teachers on the payroll. Philly is about 10x the size of a typical suburban district and has 20x the number of teachers. Notice the problem?
In the burbs they have a librarian and nurse in each school but no metal detectors and not many cops. In Philly they have tons of cops, metal detectors, million dollar security cameras, free breakfast, free lunch, and so on. Philly made their bed. They created the mess.
Philly is a total joke when it comes to education. The problem has NEVER been funding. The problem is violent students from broken families and clueless politicians who were only elected because they promised more welfare. In a typical Philly public high school there are kids running wild attacking students and attacking teachers. It is the norm. The districts solution is to do NOTHING. Philly has created a situation where the good kids have to leave the schools and find a better alternative. In the burbs we kick the problem students out of school. The violence in Philly created a need for charters. Philly then built dozens of charters at a cost of billions. Once the charters were built all the good kids applied to the charters. That lead to half the public schools being half empty. Now Philly has to close schools. The billions that are wasted is unbelievable. Lincoln HS was built in the 50s for 5000 students. In about 2000 the enrollment was down to under 2000 so they demolished the school and built a new school for 2000 students. That school is now having problems. New school but same old problems.
Philly, Detroit, Camden, Chicago are examples of what NOT to do when it comes to education. If a Harvard Prof wrote a book about a successful education system then Philly would do the exact opposite.
Philly, Detroit, Camden, Chicago are examples of what NOT to do when it comes to education. If a Harvard Prof wrote a book about a successful education system then Philly would do the exact opposite.
Zwick, sounds like you know a lot about this topic so I won't doubt you. But given the scores on their placement tests I cannot see how it is "considered a pretty god school". It may be the residents of that area have been convinced it is pretty good. But the scores would seem to debunk that belief.
Ok so dumb question here maybe but what exactly is "African-centered curriculum"? Whatever it is, I'm sure if a school came out with a "Caucasian-centered curriculum" that is might be a little controversial. Par for the course though unfortunately.
I know very little about coach Albie Crosby, but he always came across as a good guy. Have to wonder though how Imhotep is consistently loaded with athletes in both football and basketball. Their basketball program has won 3 PIAA state championships in the past 7 years.
Pretty good read on Crosby. He does mention the classroom several times.
http://www.libertycitypress.com/pla...-charter-keeps-getting-better-and-better.html
Pretty good read on Crosby. He does mention the classroom several times.
http://www.libertycitypress.com/pla...-charter-keeps-getting-better-and-better.html
Believe me, they are held more accountable at Imhotep Charter than the schools they would be otherwise attending. Additionally, it's much safer. Public schools in Philly, like most all U.S. urban school districts, are a disaster.
Cruising Route 66
Well-Known Member
Seems to be premature to offer any opinion on imhotep's financial standing or academic metrics until the investigations are completed. I'm familiar with the report card for NYC Charter schools and it shows that collectively they outperform their district counterparts in math and slightly underperform in ELA. Just like district schools, each Charter school's performance stands on its own.
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Public schools did not go downhill on their own. They were subject to assinine regulations from the federal and state level (see No Child Left Behind). They also must take ALL students regardless of learning level, something charters are not obligated to do. We could argue the public vs. charter debate forever and still not come up with any solution. My biggest gripe is that charters take $XK per student from public schools and still underperform, using the public money to float their financial boat but not produce good academic results across the board.. Are there some good charters? Yes, we have ONE here in the Lehigh Valley that produces good results, but that's an exception to the norm. Philly schools are not a good example of having the lifeblood sucked out of them. That happened because of social responsibility at home that translates into the schools. RU kidding me? How do you expect kids in Philly public schools - or anywhere else - to succeed when parents can'e even manage their own lives. Lose-lose situation. I'm not smart enough to come up with solution unless you want to mandate that parents attend parenting school, which would be a good idea Philly, Allentown, Reading , parts of Bethlehem and umpteen other districts across the state and America. Society is falling apart, ladies and gentlemen. Haven't you noticed?
AllI know is that a Republican ex-Governor and his cohort of "porn-addicted civil servants and PSU BOT accomplices" nearly brought down my Alma Mater.
I have never been a Democrat, used to be a Republican. but now vote for whichever person appears to, and has a history of being, the lesser of evils.
The shades of gray are so close that they're almost indistinguishable.
I have never been a Democrat, used to be a Republican. but now vote for whichever person appears to, and has a history of being, the lesser of evils.
The shades of gray are so close that they're almost indistinguishable.
Yea right. http://www.schooldigger.com/go/PA/districtrank.aspx Imhotep is ranked 543 out of 577 state wide. The Philadelphia School District while poor is ranked 499. If you don't like school digger, then go to the PA Dept of Ed. The PA Dept of Ed School Performance scores from last year has them at basically the same academic performance as their Phila neighbors. The school rating is 48 which is horrible. An example of a public school with a bad rep is West Philadelphia HS (44 rating). Statistically little to no difference. Their are some charters that do well but basically for the same reason that Central Phila HS (rating 97). They take only the top academics. Both sides of the political aisle are idiots when it comes to education. Some day people will understand that schools have no chance in these neighborhoods. If the school and teachers matter, lets take all the teachers and administrators from Radnor and switch them with Chester. Come back in 6 years and you will see no difference in performance.
They had gone down hill *long* before No Child Left Behind....
Thanks. Do you have the numbers on violence within Imhotep as opposed to the other schools?
And the deterioration is caused more by an attitude change more than any federal curriculum change.
The academics bother me but are they worse or better than black kids in public schools. There are a few educators having success breaking the culture barriers in educating black kids. Why are not all schools practicing them. Why are we spending $10,000+ per child on failed practices? Fix the family and you fix education. You must change hearts to do this. Money has no effect.
I don't necessarily agree with you on the "long" before No Child Left Behind. But it's all part of a long-term societal upheaval that will one day end in anarchy and revolution. Worldwide.
If you have a problem with underperforming charters then where is your gripe with public schools taking money that underperform?
You are all over the place on blame. You go from regulations to funding to PARENTING. You got 1 out of 3 right. The problem is PARENTING. The regulations had nothing to do with the problems in the Philly schools. All the great schools have the same regulations. Philly schools were failing before NCLB. Funding is not the problem either. The USA has the second highest funded schools in the world.
Teachers are part of the problem. They support the same politicians year after year. The politican's base in Philly happens to be the same people who have destroyed the schools with violence. Let me know when the PHilly teachers union is willing to support a different political party.
Not only does Philly have bad schools but Philly has EXPENSIVE schools. Philly has 18,000 teachers for about 160,000 students. Arlene Ackerman had a budget of $3.2 billion.
Philly teachers keep crying about funding but the reality is Philly has way MORE teachers on the payroll/student as the suburban districts. Philly should layoff about half the teachers. 18k teachers for 160k students is absurd. That is about 1 teachers for every 8.2 students or so. No wonder the union does not want change. They are bilking the district out of hundreds of millions.
Sorry, I do not and do not know where to get that data. Part of public school ratings from the state of PA is tied to expulsions, suspensions, etc. They are penalized for disciplining students. Private schools don't have to worry about that. They can remove whomever they want. I don't know if charter schools are penalized in ratings and therefore funding if they expel or discipline students. Even when a public school expels a student, they still have to pay their education whether cyber or alternative school often at a higher cost than leaving them in school. For these two reasons, public schools are in a no win situation. I have nothing against charter or private schools, I am just saying that it is the neighborhoods that are failing these kids and not the schools.
YOu can thank Philly for that problem. In the suburbs we don't have any problems removing violent students. In Philly they make the good kids leave.
That is $18,500 per student and obscene. Nothing will improve until the hearts in the community are changed.
Charter schools have all the teachers that couldn't get public education jobs. Nobody is graduating Penn State in education and applying to a charter school. Why would you want less pay and benefits? The people running the charter are in it for the money and the people teaching are the lowest quality teachers out there. If they are safer, so be it, but if your goal is to be safe and not learn, might as well stay at home and do your own portfolio (as a student).
No. THe city public schools have some of the worst teachers becuase of the violence. Philly actually had to lower their standards and will actually hire teachers WITHOUT teacher certificates. THe good teachers want to teach in the BURBS where they make more and do not get attacked.
It is ironic that you say the people running charters are in it for the money but then you ask why teachers would want less pay and benefits. Notice the flaw? The teachers unions are all about the money.
Can you tell us the good public high schools in PHilly?
It is actually 20k per but a lot of that money gets wasted. Philly also distorts the figures. THey count all the students but do not count funding that goes to charters so they report about 10-12k/student or somthing like that.
I could fix Philly schools but the voters would never elect me. The first thing they need to do is get rid of thousands of unnecessary teachers on the payroll. Philly has about twice as many teachers/student as a typical suburban district. The second thing to do is stop building charters when the existing schools are half empty. Only in PHilly would they do somethign so stupid. I would then eliminate school choice and busing. The kids should go to school in their own neighborhood. No more free septa passes to commute across town to destroy another school. I would actually close most of the charters. I would then convert the worst school in each section of the city into a reform school. The violent kids will get sent to the reform schools.
Well I speak in generalities. NOBODY wants to teach in a city school. That's nobody's goal. I was speaking more about the burbs. I don't know anyone who graduates PSU and heads to the city. Fairfax county is where the PSU grads head if they can't find a job where they want.
Philly is taking in Teach for America kids with no skills, no aspirations or passion for teaching. I would say it is a cultural problem. We certainly don't have fights between students and teachers in Centre County.
