Somewhat agree this could be a factor. I don't think it has to do with games being harder to master, and more appealing today. I think any impact caused by gaming would be from the advent of online multiplayer. Multiplayer games like Call of Duty have no start and end point, you just play over and over with your friends. When I was a kid I would ride my bike to a friend's house to play video games together, now that is done from home.
Rates of youth participation in organized sports dropping...Why?
- Thread starter Judge Smails
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Somewhat agree this could be a factor. I don't think it has to do with games being harder to master, and more appealing today. I think any impact caused by gaming would be from the advent of online multiplayer. Multiplayer games like Call of Duty have no start and end point, you just play over and over with your friends. When I was a kid I would ride my bike to a friend's house to play video games together, now that is done from home.
Both of those points are valid, and neither one is absolute. Some cities are not dangerous, although they may lack open spaces to play in. Other cities are conducive to kids playing outside together. Some suburbs isolate kids, while others have housing developments where many kids live close to each other with playing fields.
Yeah, understand completely. I do see your point and it's surely plausible that the decline in overall participation is related to the increase in year-round expectations. It's not a good thing. But year, nice water-cooler banter, appreciated.
I don't think the time spent on video games really impacts the time that a kid devotes to sports. From what I've seen, video gaming has replaced watching TV as activities for kids, at least from my own anecdotal evidence. I could rip out all of the TV's in my house except for the one dedicated to the Xbox and my son wouldn't notice.
He still plays sports, rides his bike and races his RC cars. Kids just have much better toys today than we did to occupy their time.
He still plays sports, rides his bike and races his RC cars. Kids just have much better toys today than we did to occupy their time.
The parents are trying to create their own social networks tied to the kids sports. They think spending every waking minute driving little Johnny around to tournaments and practices is important but it's more about the parents hanging out with other parents than the kids. I've seen tailgating in pee wee football lots by the parents. It's absurd.
I agree about the TV bit. TV isn't the past time that it used to be. Now it's old folks that sit around with the TV on all day. Younger folks don't veg in front of the TV, rather they watch what they want when they want and at other times they do something else. Turning on the TV and leaving it on isn't a default for them like it has been for so many kids for so long. This is having repercussions for the cable companies too.
It's funny....for all of the people railing about this horrible "culture" of the traveling teams, there doesn't seem to be a shortage of kids showing up to tryouts for the team to be a part of it. "No kid" (zero) wants to be involved in the work involved in a travel team? It's all the parents, huh? Wow, you got some proof for that?
MMA is mostly a spectator sport. You aren't seeing many MMA youth leagues. I doubt many consider gaming a sport.
Uh.....I think I specifically said this:
"Yes, there are great "sports parents" and there are great coaches out there (I have - personally - had the good fortune to have MOST of the teams my kids were on led by good people)......and there are kids who will thrive under a 12 month per year ultra-competitive environment. These are not absolutes."
But, it is what it is....horse is plenty dead by now anyway.
Freakanomics post here: It doesn't give an overall percent comparison of who plays any sport.... If I had to think about it, I'd say the specialization in one sport is a bigger factor than no participation. Kids who are good at Baseball play/train year round and don't participate in as many sports as they used to.
I don't agree with this, but I don't have a lot of time to elaborate. I was thin, had a necessarily long, sweeping swing, and did fine. There are a lot of strong, fast swingers that just don't "feel" the timing and contact part of hitting.
Many kids play AAU sports to play at a high level of competition, receive good coaching and play in tournaments with teammates who have the same goals and against other good teams. In the process, they acquire skills often needed to make their middle/high school teams.
Not to say that a kid can't get those skills playing pick-up. It's my experience players with lots of AAU experience often make the school teams over the players who don't.
This is exactly the reason. I see what look like 6-7 year olds running around in full pads now. It's a joke. What happened to seasons and starting some of this stuff when you got near high school? Too much time, too much money, burning out, etc.
But if a guy has bat speed, you can teach him to hit. Without it, it's very difficult.
Yeah, no. Video game usage stats over this same time period don't back up this theory. Little to no increase.
Sluggo,
I coach soccer at a high level, and can tell you that you are incorrect, sorry. Now, if they kid is lightning fast, a HS coach may give them a break, but I mean a real sprinter, which is kind of an exception, most soccer players at that level are "fast" already.
If your technical skills stink in 6th grade, you will not make a legit travel team in your area, if the program is quality I should say. Thus, you'll end up in County, almost all County soccer coaches suck, that is another sad fact.
Technical skills need years of practice to compete at more elite levels.
what I have learned from this thread (and I never mentioned the sport soccer in any of my comments) is, no wonder soccer is where it is today!! Its too hard to play!! if you are unwilling to trade your youth, you have no chance to make a soccer team!! So why bother!!
Some points:
1. I do not believe the statistic that kids are playing less sports than before, you can doctor up stats to prove whatever point you want to make by manipulating data and how you actual get the data.
2. No way can you make a high school team now in a major sport (as a male) without playing that sport on travel teams since you were 6-8 years old unless you are a superior athlete to everyone else (ie...Div 1A elite type athlete). If you are normal height and weight (ie...not really tall for BBall or really big for football) then by the time you get to high school, if you have not played the sport for a long time the no way you make it at a medium or large high school, that is just reality.
3. Kid are getting burnt out today with the 365 day sports requirements. I know several families and kids where the kid was really good and played year round for many years and just told there parents they are done. That the sport was no longer fun and they were tired of it and wanted out. That is the thing that parents now a days have to be very careful of.
4. There are a lot of crazy parents out there. I know many parents who are paying $6,000 - $10,000 per year for their kids to do private sports and get private training, etc...which is perfectly fine if you have the money and your kid enjoys it. The issue I have is these parents literally and honestly think that their kid is going to get a college schollie and that is why they are doing it. They are essentially taking the money they should be putting away to pay for college and actually believing their kid is good enough in that sport to get a full ride. That is a real travesty.
5. I personally have not pushed my kids into a pure team sports, all individual type sports...swimming, diving, wrestling, tennis, track, etc...because I did not want the politics and headache of coaches who play favorites. I wanted my kids to participate in sports where a stopwatch or 1vs1 play decides who 'starts' or who 'plays' and not a coach. I had several bad experiences growing up with bad coaches who played the kids they liked and/or family friends and did not want my kids to have to go through the same thing.
6. Football is going to be in trouble in a couple of decades. I know a ton of parents who will not let their kids play football because of concussions. And these are dad's who played football growing up and love football today but just do not want their kids to take the risk. And that is a growing number.
1. I do not believe the statistic that kids are playing less sports than before, you can doctor up stats to prove whatever point you want to make by manipulating data and how you actual get the data.
2. No way can you make a high school team now in a major sport (as a male) without playing that sport on travel teams since you were 6-8 years old unless you are a superior athlete to everyone else (ie...Div 1A elite type athlete). If you are normal height and weight (ie...not really tall for BBall or really big for football) then by the time you get to high school, if you have not played the sport for a long time the no way you make it at a medium or large high school, that is just reality.
3. Kid are getting burnt out today with the 365 day sports requirements. I know several families and kids where the kid was really good and played year round for many years and just told there parents they are done. That the sport was no longer fun and they were tired of it and wanted out. That is the thing that parents now a days have to be very careful of.
4. There are a lot of crazy parents out there. I know many parents who are paying $6,000 - $10,000 per year for their kids to do private sports and get private training, etc...which is perfectly fine if you have the money and your kid enjoys it. The issue I have is these parents literally and honestly think that their kid is going to get a college schollie and that is why they are doing it. They are essentially taking the money they should be putting away to pay for college and actually believing their kid is good enough in that sport to get a full ride. That is a real travesty.
5. I personally have not pushed my kids into a pure team sports, all individual type sports...swimming, diving, wrestling, tennis, track, etc...because I did not want the politics and headache of coaches who play favorites. I wanted my kids to participate in sports where a stopwatch or 1vs1 play decides who 'starts' or who 'plays' and not a coach. I had several bad experiences growing up with bad coaches who played the kids they liked and/or family friends and did not want my kids to have to go through the same thing.
6. Football is going to be in trouble in a couple of decades. I know a ton of parents who will not let their kids play football because of concussions. And these are dad's who played football growing up and love football today but just do not want their kids to take the risk. And that is a growing number.
The graph at the OP shows it is the 2nd most played youth sport next to basketball. Not sure what you are trying to say.
so, in my area, the teams my kids were on from say 7 to 12 in age, if there was an overlap, you had to make a decision. The soccer coach was telling my son if you miss practice or a game for baseball, you will sit and vice versa. There was never any effort foe coaches to work it out.
I was an assistant coach and tried to be reasonable but I never was successful at that so that's another topic.
By junior high my kids had had enough of organized sports they went in a different direction. To much specialization, travel, peer pressure, jerk coaches, politics, etc. Music was their passion anyway so it was all cool and they could hang out all over the place without any supervision which was much more to their liking. Easier for me to run them around to lessons and practices as well.
I was an assistant coach and tried to be reasonable but I never was successful at that so that's another topic.
By junior high my kids had had enough of organized sports they went in a different direction. To much specialization, travel, peer pressure, jerk coaches, politics, etc. Music was their passion anyway so it was all cool and they could hang out all over the place without any supervision which was much more to their liking. Easier for me to run them around to lessons and practices as well.
Re the above points:
- The anecdote about the baseball player who was transformed by coaching is a good one... but not realistic in today's sports environment. There are almost no HS sports without cuts today. If you haven't played before HS, you won't make the team. Coaches don't want to spend the time and effort to put in the hard work if they have someone else who is already better and they can raise their competition level.
How many articles do you read that encourage multi-sport athletes? Many. How many individual coaches encourage multi-sport athletes when that takes away from SPORT 1 team? Few. It is a massive struggle when sports collide and you end up with no coach happy and multiple coaches ticked when they perceive your kid as prioritizing the OTHER sport higher. This equals less playing time and less skill development. It is a struggle to find sports that complement each other without conflicts (I'm still trying to find them).
Years of practice to become an amateur or low-paid soccer player competing with millions of others?
If your goal is to have your kid get good and even make money by playing a sport, teach him golf.
The competition is less than with other sports - few kids play golf, especially hungry minority kids. Most people take it up later in life and so are at a disadvantage. Also, the kid doesn't have to be athletic, just practice some.
If the kid isn't good enough to be on tour, they can get a job at a country club.
Failing that, it comes in handy in business and you can play with clients until you retire.
Another benefit: No concussions.
But if you want the kid to get a lot of aerobic exercise, forget the golf.
from US News and World reports
That's the concern for MLS: Now that more and more Americans have been exposed to phenomenal soccer, will they buy into a U.S. soccer league that is markedly inferior, or will they clamor for more of England's Premier League and Spain's La Liga? According to the website MLS Attendance, 8 of the 19 MLS teams are averaging fewer fans this season than last; the 2013 MLS Cup drew an 0.5 television rating -- about 1/50th the size of the ratings for U.S.-Portugal last week. Finding a national fan base would be an uphill climb for MLS without the competition from overseas.
I guess it says, who in the US really cares about soccer other than the kids that play it?? and you have to start when you are 6 yrs old, and if you read your point 3 above, most will get burnt out. And you don't really play soccer in the HS, you have to be on some 'elite' travel team, and pay some numb nuts to coach you, so you can not watch it on tv when you get older.
One of the theories of my wife and I is that the different generations react to the way they were brought up. Kids that were raised in the 60s and 70s by baby boomer parents who (generally) didn't put as much effort and attention into their kids' activities produced a generation who really focused on getting their kids into organized sports and trying to see they reach their full potential. Is the recent drop in youth sports participation a reaction to that by young parents who resented the constant drive to practices all the time? Or is it a function of shrinking middle class disposable income?
Root Cause: High taxes at all levels of government. This forces both parents to work. Parents are worn out from working. Kids are being raised in day care. No time for taking kids to activities. Not only is sports participation decreasing but other activities like Boy and Girl Scouts, church activity attendance, band, etc. are also in decline.
Another factor is the increasing number of single parent households. Working single parents have no time or energy to take their kids to outside activities.
This is an unintended consequence of high taxes and single parent households. It is going to get worse rather than better.
Lots of us.... Or NBC would not have bought rights to the EPL. And Fox to the Bundesliga. And check out the owner-investors of MLS. Some smart, rich guys in there.
People that think baseball is boring have never watched a soccer match.
Lots of really good discussion so far.
To the OP about why participation numbers are down, kids have a lot more opportunity to participate in something (anything) versus back in the dark ages when I was younger. For the most part, it's all good.
I have 4 of the best, well adjusted young adult offspring imaginable. They all participated in youth rec league, church league, Catholic grade school and high school sports. The youngest played club volleyball for a long time (12 - 17). I can write a book about the experiences - lot of good, some bad.
Concurrent with this athletic activity was the demand from their parents that they apply themselves and do well in school, and that they try to develop some other talent/activity besides all the sports stuff. Big demands from the parents, but these were the ground rules.
They played sports in season until they were 12 or 13. Then they started to specialize, each going in their own direction. Nobody ever made a big splash for their athletic prowess, but they all "participated".
When the games were over, we had a lot of good memories and the kids wound up having a strong work ethic.
One of my kids' favorite movies is "The Sandlot" - no parents coaching in that one, just some great neighborhood kids making their own baseball field on an empty lot and playing a lot of baseball together. Come to think of it, it is one of my favorites too.
To the OP about why participation numbers are down, kids have a lot more opportunity to participate in something (anything) versus back in the dark ages when I was younger. For the most part, it's all good.
I have 4 of the best, well adjusted young adult offspring imaginable. They all participated in youth rec league, church league, Catholic grade school and high school sports. The youngest played club volleyball for a long time (12 - 17). I can write a book about the experiences - lot of good, some bad.
Concurrent with this athletic activity was the demand from their parents that they apply themselves and do well in school, and that they try to develop some other talent/activity besides all the sports stuff. Big demands from the parents, but these were the ground rules.
They played sports in season until they were 12 or 13. Then they started to specialize, each going in their own direction. Nobody ever made a big splash for their athletic prowess, but they all "participated".
When the games were over, we had a lot of good memories and the kids wound up having a strong work ethic.
One of my kids' favorite movies is "The Sandlot" - no parents coaching in that one, just some great neighborhood kids making their own baseball field on an empty lot and playing a lot of baseball together. Come to think of it, it is one of my favorites too.
Creative way to work "high taxes" into the conversation. 7/10
Yeah, just like anything else, it's all Washington's fault. "Creative?" I think not. I've had my fill of this thread anyway, got enough out of it as it is. Good thread, actually. When people stay focused on this board you can get a whole lot out of a thread.
Dead wrong. Real median wages have been declining since the 1980s. Today everybody works, whether a single or double parent family. That's because the average family needs two incomes to make ends meet - family income is stagnant despite dual earners. Also many women today aren't happy not working. That's why kids are in day care.
Boy scouts, band and church attendance is down? Good. They get enough structure at day care and school. Let the neighborhood kids play with each other more. They won't need anyone to "take them to outside activities" every day and spend more money on gas, uniforms and support of the organizations sponsoring the activities.
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Two parents working is definitely an issue. Cannot go outside and play after school with friends if you are not at home because your parents are working. And when weekends role around, there are more things to do with those parents as that is the time they have to do things with kids and therefore kids not around to play outside and make those connections/friendships.
I was one of those parents who attended weekend volleyball matches in the "off season". My kid wanted to play after her high school season was over and had been playing club ball since age 10. Yes it was costly and time consuming but the outlay of cash was made up in one year with the scholarship she received to play D-1 volleyball.
The competition for athletic scholarships is fierce and if your child is not playing year round, they are at a disadvantage, at least with volleyball. My daughter wanted to advance, play tough competition and extend her talents to the limit. Her choice. I fortunately was able to fund this endeavor. It is not for everyone due to the time and financial commitment. Unquestionably, it necessary in order to compete these days. Rare it is for an "athlete" to walk out on a court and compete at the highest club ball levels. High school is very different in that regard since the talent is diluted.
Is it a good development? I can make strong arguments either way. But the reality is that any child with talent must devise a way to maximize it to maximize the return on that talent. Playing is the only way to do that and the standard is to play a lot.
The competition for athletic scholarships is fierce and if your child is not playing year round, they are at a disadvantage, at least with volleyball. My daughter wanted to advance, play tough competition and extend her talents to the limit. Her choice. I fortunately was able to fund this endeavor. It is not for everyone due to the time and financial commitment. Unquestionably, it necessary in order to compete these days. Rare it is for an "athlete" to walk out on a court and compete at the highest club ball levels. High school is very different in that regard since the talent is diluted.
Is it a good development? I can make strong arguments either way. But the reality is that any child with talent must devise a way to maximize it to maximize the return on that talent. Playing is the only way to do that and the standard is to play a lot.
I have read though this entire thread. And every kid is different. Some want to play team sports, some want to skateboard, ski, golf, surf, rock climb, or music. That is all great. Who cares if team sports are down? If you are a good parent, you should just encourage your kid to participate in the activity that they enjoy. (as long as it's not bad).
I would learn how to play trombone if my kid wanted to do that.
I coach her soccer and lacrosse leagues and these girls are awesome!! I had a girl come up to me and say, "Last year I sucked. This year I am good"
It's a combination of coaching, kids, and parents.
I would learn how to play trombone if my kid wanted to do that.
I coach her soccer and lacrosse leagues and these girls are awesome!! I had a girl come up to me and say, "Last year I sucked. This year I am good"
It's a combination of coaching, kids, and parents.
I'm inclined to agree, and would like to see some research on the total number of kids playing any sport and compare it with figures from 20-30 years ago. My son was 8 the first time someone told me he needed to pick on sport and focus on it. Part of that guidance was that if he picked baseball, I need to stop taking him to the driving range because golf would mess up his baseball swing. It's nonsense, but there are plenty of people in youth sports who think and talk that way. I'm a big believer in giving kids chances to experience lots of things. The likelihood that they will find their true passion while in grade school is close to nil, and forcing them into a box at an early age is only going to hurt them in the long run.
What you say is true, at each margin. The fact is with many sports that it is efficient for coaches to take (promote) more experienced kids from the next lower level. It simply is too much of an investment to look for diamonds in the rough or take the time to do any remedial coaching without knowing what the end result will be. I really doubt that a 12 year old generally great athlete cannot enter a sport (soccer if you wish) and get to the level of a seasoned, less athletic kid over time. It's just highly unlikely he'll get noticed (or advance as quickly skillwise because he doesn't need to to win) when he plays only against lesser competition.
