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OT: New formulation for concrete.

The Spin Meister

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Nov 27, 2012
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An altered state
An additive consisting of graphene has been developed that is 50% stronger, more durable, and is cheaper overall.

Just talked to a developer that is considering using it. Anyone familiar with it? @step.eng69 ?

This could be great stuff if true. Hopefully it is far more resistant to salt and will allow bridges and roads to last much longer.

 
An additive consisting of graphene has been developed that is 50% stronger, more durable, and is cheaper overall.

Just talked to a developer that is considering using it. Anyone familiar with it? @step.eng69 ?

This could be great stuff if true. Hopefully it is far more resistant to salt and will allow bridges and roads to last much longer.

Looks interesting, but it seems to still be in the very early stages of development. A quick search yields nothing about it being available or used in the US for structural concrete.
 
Looks interesting, but it seems to still be in the very early stages of development. A quick search yields nothing about it being available or used in the US for structural concrete.
Here is an interesting article from the Pa Concrete Association from 2021. Some very interesting uses listed near the end.

 
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An additive consisting of graphene has been developed that is 50% stronger, more durable, and is cheaper overall.

Just talked to a developer that is considering using it. Anyone familiar with it? @step.eng69 ?

This could be great stuff if true. Hopefully it is far more resistant to salt and will allow bridges and roads to last much longer.

I’ve always wondered how they could try incorporating nanotechnology (e.g., carbon nanotubes) to make infrastructure more durable, but this seems like a good cost-efficient alternative. I also wouldn’t be surprised to see graphene replace lithium-ion for EV batteries for similar benefits mentioned in the OP.
 
An additive consisting of graphene has been developed that is 50% stronger, more durable, and is cheaper overall.

Just talked to a developer that is considering using it. Anyone familiar with it? @step.eng69 ?

This could be great stuff if true. Hopefully it is far more resistant to salt and will allow bridges and roads to last much longer.


Re post in about 20 years.

I am not familiar with it but I have seen hundreds of new and improved methods and products that failed the test of time.
 
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I’ve always wondered how they could try incorporating nanotechnology (e.g., carbon nanotubes) to make infrastructure more durable, but this seems like a good cost-efficient alternative. I also wouldn’t be surprised to see graphene replace lithium-ion for EV batteries for similar benefits mentioned in the OP.
Graphene is a tremendous superconductor. Hoping they can replace all the copper in the motors with graphene. The motors would be very light and very small permitting major design changes.
 
An additive consisting of graphene has been developed that is 50% stronger, more durable, and is cheaper overall.

Just talked to a developer that is considering using it. Anyone familiar with it? @step.eng69 ?

This could be great stuff if true. Hopefully it is far more resistant to salt and will allow bridges and roads to last much longer.

Interesting. I worked with a theoretical physicist whose research was primarily focused on graphene and graphene derivatives. It has very interesting strength and electrical properties. This theoretical physicist determined that a graphene derivative that didn't exist in nature should be a stable compound. He had a grad student run tests on various permutations of the derivative to determine which were most stable. Turns out that whether or not a hydrogen atom was bonded to a carbon atom in the hexagonal lattice or not changed whether or not that site was a conductive or insulative.

At any rate, if they would be able to find permutations that were structurally stable (H atoms may jump from the bonded lattice point to a more stable lattice point when some energy via vibrations, light, etc. were applied to the material) then the graphene derivative would potentially be able to create electrical circuits on an atomic scale. The practical applications of such nano-electric circuits would be mind blowing. Last I had heard, my friend had worked with chemists at his university to synthesize the graphene derivative that he had theorized should be stable.

I may need to check in with him and ask his thoughts about a concrete application. I know there is plenty of research on carbon nanotubes which are simply the hexagonal carbon lattice of the graphene molecule connected repetitively and 3 dimensionally "rolled" into the shape of a tube similarly to how a hexagon can be repeated and 3 dimensionally oriented to produce a soccer ball shape (or in chemistry, the Bucky ball shape or more formally as in the Buckminsterfullerene of the 1996 Nobel Prize). Anyway, the carbon nanotube would have incredible strength properties. They've tried using magnetic fields to grow carbon nanotubes (essentially aligning the carbon bonding about an axial center aligned with the magnetic field). So far it has proved difficult to take this nano-structure to macro-applications.
 
An additive consisting of graphene has been developed that is 50% stronger, more durable, and is cheaper overall.

Just talked to a developer that is considering using it. Anyone familiar with it? @step.eng69 ?

This could be great stuff if true. Hopefully it is far more resistant to salt and will allow bridges and roads to last much longer.

Reading the attached articles at the doctors this morning.
Really interesting stuff.
Thanks for in info. Meister
 
I have worked in low-dimensional physics (including carbon nanotubes and graphene) for over 20 years. Many uses have been proposed for both forms of crystalline carbon, most of them unrealistic, but some do pay off. I know little about concrete, but I assume that it must be strong in all directions. Graphene has extraordinary tensile strength onlly in its monolayer plane. Carbon nanotubes would seem to me a better option for reinforcing concrete; imagine them as nanoscopic rebar.

Here is one proposed application the board will love:

Graphene condoms

The problem with that (other than the image on the package, which would be a turnoff for most) is that graphene films large enough to form a condom have many defects and grain boundaries, which may negate "impenetrability". It does have very high thermal conductivity, but only in the plane, which is irrelevant for that "natural feel".
 
I have worked in low-dimensional physics (including carbon nanotubes and graphene) for over 20 years. Many uses have been proposed for both forms of crystalline carbon, most of them unrealistic, but some do pay off. I know little about concrete, but I assume that it must be strong in all directions. Graphene has extraordinary tensile strength onlly in its monolayer plane. Carbon nanotubes would seem to me a better option for reinforcing concrete; imagine them as nanoscopic rebar.

Here is one proposed application the board will love:

Graphene condoms

The problem with that (other than the image on the package, which would be a turnoff for most) is that graphene films large enough to form a condom have many defects and grain boundaries, which may negate "impenetrability". It does have very high thermal conductivity, but only in the plane, which is irrelevant for that "natural feel".
Have you heard any progress on engineering carbon nanotubes of macroscopic lengths? I haven't worked with graphene derivatives for about 15 years and am sadly not up to date on any progress. Thanks.
 
Have you heard any progress on engineering carbon nanotubes of macroscopic lengths? I haven't worked with graphene derivatives for about 15 years and am sadly not up to date on any progress. Thanks.
I have moved away from catbon nanotubes so I do not follow the literature closely. A few years ago my postdoc came running excitedly nto my office with a huge smile on his face while waving a printout of a manuscript he was asked to review. It was a paper on copper nanotubes by a Chinese group whose familiarity with English was more scientific than colloquial. Their abstract and paper were filled with the abbreviation C*NTs. (See Edit at bottom of post) He desperately wanted to approve it for obvious reasons (he is quite a character with a wicked sense of humor) but asked for my advice on how best to proceed. I asked him if the paper was scientifically sound. He replied that it was. I then asked if he had been asked to judge it solely on scientific merit or also to provide editorial language input. He replied, "solely on scientific merit". I then suggested that he constrain his comments to that, with the assumption that the editors would do their due diligence with the grammar, spelling, and other verbal specifics. He immediately replied to the journal, "Important scientific result; publish as is". It was published as is, and the paper has consistently made the top ten list of most hilarious scientific abstracts or papers. It probably got more citations because of that, so we probably did the authors a favor.

We find humor in physics wherever we can.

Edit:
This forum wrote the abbreviation as *****, not as the original abbreviation as published in the scientific journal, but the chemical symbol for copper is Cu, so fill in the blank.
 
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Not related to the OP but, @step.eng69 @The Spin Meister, did you see this?


Makes you wonder what kind if any, pre-ride inspection was done.

Wow. That fracture really opened up when the cars went by. Lucky they didn’t have a catastrophic failure.

I saw a still photo but not this video. Scary stuff. So who first saw it and reported it?
ironically, I took a short webinar on HSS members last week for PDH credits.
If you wish Download the presentation:
https://steeltubeinstitute.org/2023-webinar-series

Didn't know anything about this until posted the other day. The contraption was built in 2015, probably engineered a yr or two earlier, in accordance with AISC-10. The new designs are to be in an up-dated Limit States Design, controlling plastic shear and punch thru in HSS thin-walled members (like the column on the coaster).

It appears to be shear and wall bending-buckling failure.......the new Limit States design addresses this failure mode.

Additional Changes
Good article & Girl picture :p Link: https://informedinfrastructure.com/...-to-aisc-360-16-affect-hss-connection-design/

Reason for Change

"It wasn’t too long ago that a Hollow Structural Section (HSS) spec didn’t even exist. AISC 360-05 was the first time HSS connection provisions were brought into the main body of the specification and were introduced as Chapter K. Shortly after, AISC Design Guide 24 was published, which includes many charts for the various connections. The charts then were incorporated into the main specification in 2010."

• There is a “new” limit of applicability pertaining to the ends of members. If your connection occurs close to the end of the HSS member (which is the case here), the allowable resistance equations may not apply. This is not a new phenomenon. Hopefully, most designers have been adding cap plates or other means of stiffening the walls of a tube if the connection occurs in close proximity to the open end of the member.

"Carowinds shut down the ride. They released a statement on the subject, explaining that their team was “conducting a thorough inspection and the ride will remain closed until repairs have been completed.” They go on to explain;"

“Safety is out top priority, ad we appreciate the patience and understanding of our valued guests during this process. As part of our comprehensive safety protocols, all rides, including Fury 325, undergo daily inspections to ensure their proper functioning and structural integrity.”
🤔
 
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ironically, I took a short webinar on HSS members last week for PDH credits.
If you wish Download the presentation:
https://steeltubeinstitute.org/2023-webinar-series

Didn't know anything about this until posted the other day. The contraption was built in 2015, probably engineered a yr or two earlier, in accordance with AISC-10. The new designs are to be in an up-dated Limit States Design, controlling plastic shear and punch thru in HSS thin-walled members (like the column on the coaster).

It appears to be shear and wall bending failure.......the new Limit States design addresses this failure mode.

Additional Changes
Good article & Girl picture :p Link: https://informedinfrastructure.com/...-to-aisc-360-16-affect-hss-connection-design/

Reason for Change

"It wasn’t too long ago that a Hollow Structural Section (HSS) spec didn’t even exist. AISC 360-05 was the first time HSS connection provisions were brought into the main body of the specification and were introduced as Chapter K. Shortly after, AISC Design Guide 24 was published, which includes many charts for the various connections. The charts then were incorporated into the main specification in 2010."

• There is a “new” limit of applicability pertaining to the ends of members. If your connection occurs close to the end of the HSS member, the allowable resistance equations may not apply. This is not a new phenomenon. Hopefully, most designers have been adding cap plates or other means of stiffening the walls of a tube if the connection occurs in close proximity to the open end of the member.

"Carowinds shut down the ride. They released a statement on the subject, explaining that their team was “conducting a thorough inspection and the ride will remain closed until repairs have been completed.” They go on to explain;"

“Safety is out top priority, ad we appreciate the patience and understanding of our valued guests during this process. As part of our comprehensive safety protocols, all rides, including Fury 325, undergo daily inspections to ensure their proper functioning and structural integrity.”
🤔
Doesn’t look like that member was reinforced with a cap at all. And with a cross member adding rigidity below that point it certainly isolated all the stress to that point of failure.

Bet they add reinforcements to every one of the towers on that ride. And engineers around the globe are doing major recalculations.
 
Doesn’t look like that member was reinforced with a cap at all. And with a cross member adding rigidity below that point it certainly isolated all the stress to that point of failure.

Bet they add reinforcements to every one of the towers on that ride. And engineers around the globe are doing major recalculations.
I forgot to mention that metal fatigue probably played a major issue in failure. Stiffeners within the tube at the lines of intersection diagonal w/ vertical
 
Doesn’t look like that member was reinforced with a cap at all. And with a cross member adding rigidity below that point it certainly isolated all the stress to that point of failure.

Bet they add reinforcements to every one of the towers on that ride. And engineers around the globe are doing major recalculations.
The dynamic load is essentially in the horizontal plane at that point but there appears to be very little in terms of structural support in that plane. Most everything seems to be engineered for the static vertical load and the much smaller vertical dynamic loading.

But with the change in momentum of the car and however many people it holds being confined to almost entirely in the horizontal plane, it is imparting a significant time varying impulse in that horizontal plane on the mostly vertical structural elements of the track's support structure. This impulse would be at a maximum when it is aligned 90 degrees to the track surface which is where this member began to sheer. The impulse is responsible for a horizontally directed force function with respect to time.

I also notice that the area of application of this force function is pretty small so the force isn't spread out over much area thus causing a higher pressure exerted on that member at the point (small area) it is fixed to the track.

Notice there is a member which comes in at not quite a 45 degree angle which is the only member that handles the horizontal component of the dynamic loading and does so only along the horizontal component of this member in tension. If you notice the sheering failure is perpendicular to this angled member and the sheering begins nearest the small area of application of this horizontal dynamic force.

That joint needs to be reinforced and I would think additional members which can bear the horizontal dynamic load would be needed. In the video, I only see 2 such members that handle the dynamic loading over that entire horizontal portion of the track.

Further, I would add that this horizontal dynamic load caused repetition fatigue in the member. Essentially, if you repeatedly load a member over and over with a dynamic load, then the crystalline structure of the metal will undergo repeated plastic deformations which eventually cause the crystal imperfections called dislocations to eventually all move within the crystal grains and get trapped at the edges. So the more repeated dynamic loading, the more the dislocations pile up on the edges of the grain and thus the more susceptible that material is to shearing.

I don't know how long this ride has been in use but the longer it has been, the more the material had fatigued thus decreasing its maximum tensile and sheer strength. So now you have too little structural design for that dynamic horizontal loading and on top of that, the material strength has decreased over repetitive fatiguing.

Just my take from watching the video.
 
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The dynamic load is essentially in the horizontal plane at that point but there appears to be very little in terms of structural support in that plane. Most everything seems to be engineered for the static vertical load and the much smaller vertical dynamic loading.

But with the change in momentum of the car and however many people it holds being confined to almost entirely in the horizontal plane, it is imparting a significant time varying impulse in that horizontal plane on the mostly vertical structural elements of the track. This impulse would be at a maximum when it is aligned 90 degrees to the track surface which is where this member began to sheer. The impulse is responsible for a horizontally directed force function with respect to time.

I also notice that the area of application of this force function is pretty small so the force isn't spread out over much area thus causing a higher pressure exerted on that member at the point (small area) it is fixed to the track.

Notice there is a member which comes in at not quite a 45 degree angle which is the only member that handles the horizontal component of the dynamic loading and does so only along the horizontal component of this member in tension. If you notice the sheering failure is perpendicular to this angled member and the sheering begins nearest the small area of application of this horizontal dynamic force.

That joint needs to be reinforced and I would think additional members which can bear the horizontal dynamic load would be needed. In the video, I only see 2 such members that handle the dynamic loading over that entire horizontal portion of the track.

Further, I would add that this horizontal dynamic load caused repetition fatigue in the member. Essentially, if you repeatedly load a member over and over with a dynamic load, then the crystalline structure of the metal will undergo repeated plastic deformations which eventually cause the crystal imperfections called dislocations to eventually all move within the crystal grains and get trapped at the edges. So the more repeated dynamic loading, the more the dislocations pile up on the edges of the grain and thus the more susceptible that material is to shearing.

I don't know how long this ride has been in use but the longer it has been, the more the material had fatigued thus decreasing its maximum tensile and sheer strength. So now you have too little structural design for that dynamic horizontal loading and on top of that, the material strength has decreased over repetitive fatiguing.

Just my take from watching the video.
The diagonal member is performing well, resisting the centrifugal forces. It's difficult to determine whether the weld on the top of the diagional to column connection failed or the thin walled HSS pulled from the weld...sheared. Need a close up pic.

AISC-16 has up-graded their Limit States design to deal with end member connections such as this.

Night siblings......time for bourbon & movies
 
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I forgot to mention that metal fatigue probably played a major issue in failure. Stiffeners within the tube at the lines of intersection diagonal w/ vertical
The geometry/constructability of that weld connection is tricky, I have to wonder if it was the weld that failed first and then the rest was metal fatigue and whether it was a design or welding flaw that precipitated the failure.

Here's a wider shot photo showing the coaster.

 
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The diagonal member is performing well, resisting the centrifugal forces. It's difficult to determine whether the weld on the top of the diagional to column connection failed or the thin walled HSS pulled from the weld...sheared. Need a close up pic.

AISC-16 has up-graded their Limit States design to deal with end member connections such as this.

Night siblings......time for bourbon & movies
You guys are at several levels above mine so will sit out the rest of this conversation!
 
The diagonal member is performing well, resisting the centrifugal forces. It's difficult to determine whether the weld on the top of the diagional to column connection failed or the thin walled HSS pulled from the weld...sheared. Need a close up pic.

AISC-16 has up-graded their Limit States design to deal with end member connections such as this.

Night siblings......time for bourbon & movies
Thanks for the clarification. It isn't the diagonal member itself that failed, it appears to be at or very near the junction where the horizontal force was transferred to this member. I needed to be more specific in describing that.

I was focused more on the physics resulting in the direction of the dynamic load and the material properties which lead to failure.
 
Thanks for the clarification. It isn't the diagonal member itself that failed, it appears to be at or very near the junction where the horizontal force was transferred to this member. I needed to be more specific in describing that.

I was focused more on the physics resulting in the direction of the dynamic load and the material properties which lead to failure.
Couldn’t help myself…. Back in.

Looks like the failure followed the weld line. You can see how that segment is perpendicular to the diagonal member axis.

So the weld failed and the rest of the vertical member was insufficient and suffered metal fatigue.

Makes one wonder how long that weld was failing and never discovered. Need better daily inspection. And will likely X-ray all other critical welds.
 
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Some quotes from an industry insider in this article with attention on welds. Also, take a look at the photo within the article and notice how different some of the other connections look and a photo of the connection from a week ago.

This is amazing that pics were taken of the initial failure and the propagation to total failure of the connection.
Great information, SLUPSU

"about Fury… I haven’t been to the park since last Saturday, but I’ve always took photos from the parking lot of the skyline. I decided to look back and see if the crack was visible last week… well, it was. 😳🫣 Of course I’ll ride it when it’s repaired. Things happen… I just hope this leads to MORE inspections and extensive safety checks in the future. Thank God nothing bad came of it and no one was injured before this was caught. Get well soon, Fury. 🩹💚🐝"
May be an image of 1 person and roller coaster

May be an image of roller coaster and text
 
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You guys are at several levels above mine so will sit out the rest of this conversation!
Not really Meister,
Common sense is usually the best way to assess a situation like this. A certified welder dealing with HSS connections can tell you the down & dirty side (if any) of these connections.
These connections were welded in the fabrication shop with QA (Quality Assurance) on site.
If QA inspected the the welded joint and verified, then the failure probably is with the design,
Weld size & member wall thickness.

I'm sure the design was in accordance with the specifications at the time.
New design specifications have recognized the need for special design treatment for connections near the end of structural members, since adopted to address this type of HSS failure ....
Connections near the end of the member.
 
An additive consisting of graphene has been developed that is 50% stronger, more durable, and is cheaper overall.

Just talked to a developer that is considering using it. Anyone familiar with it? @step.eng69 ?

This could be great stuff if true. Hopefully it is far more resistant to salt and will allow bridges and roads to last much longer.

Check out it's use in a modern country Step. GMG on the Canadian Stock Exchange.
An additive consisting of graphene has been developed that is 50% stronger, more durable, and is cheaper overall.

Just talked to a developer that is considering using it. Anyone familiar with it? @step.eng69 ?

This could be great stuff if true. Hopefully it is far more resistant to salt and will allow bridges and roads to last much longer.


Check this out... From a modern country..
An additive consisting of graphene has been developed that is 50% stronger, more durable, and is cheaper overall.

Just talked to a developer that is considering using it. Anyone familiar with it? @step.eng69 ?

This could be great stuff if true. Hopefully it is far more resistant to salt and will allow bridges and roads to last much longer.


Here ya go Spin


My favorite Canadian Stock.
S2A uses graphene in construction in the US



ion
 
An additive consisting of graphene has been developed that is 50% stronger, more durable, and is cheaper overall.

Just talked to a developer that is considering using it. Anyone familiar with it? @step.eng69 ?

This could be great stuff if true. Hopefully it is far more resistant to salt and will allow bridges and roads to last much longer.

 
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Pretty creative. Just wish they would have been a little better at explaining how what green concrete is and how to accomplish it.
I'm confused.... 🤔

Now, we might know. Rice University researchers have successfully used a commercial laser to transform the surface carbon in foods–like toast, coconuts shells, potatoes, and Girl Scout cookies–into graphene. Without using any special vacuums or clean rooms, graphene can be patterned into an impossibly thin, edible circuit–including fuel cells to store power, radio hardware to transmit data, glowing elements to light up, and even all sorts of sensors, too. These circuits resemble a dark, inky tattoo, a bit like very burnt toast.
 
This is amazing that pics were taken of the initial failure and the propagation to total failure of the connection.
Great information, SLUPSU

"about Fury… I haven’t been to the park since last Saturday, but I’ve always took photos from the parking lot of the skyline. I decided to look back and see if the crack was visible last week… well, it was. 😳🫣 Of course I’ll ride it when it’s repaired. Things happen… I just hope this leads to MORE inspections and extensive safety checks in the future. Thank God nothing bad came of it and no one was injured before this was caught. Get well soon, Fury. 🩹💚🐝"
May be an image of 1 person and roller coaster

May be an image of roller coaster and text
They said that it is inspected daily. Is that something that would be routinely missed (repeatedly) in such an inspection or is that not part of the inspection or was it noticed but not deemed significant?
 
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