Keep trying. But you'll still be out in left field because you're dead wrong.
OT: Is this the end of General Electric?
- Thread starter The Spin Meister
- Start date
LOL - Specifically what in my post is "dead wrong?"
Have we not had 9+ years of decreasing unemployment? Have we not had 9+ years of increased tax revenue? Was the tax cuts not in the middle of those consecutive years of lowered unemployment and increased tax revenue? Does correlation actually equal causation?
Which of those are "dead wrong?"
It's actually not. And I have no idea how you can't understand. There is absolutely no data that supports your position that the tax cuts caused an increase in tax revenue. If you think you've found some, please cite it.
Revenue increase from 2017 to 2018 was up a measly 14 billion, that's IT. Even though you had gdp of 2.9%, even though 2.6 million jobs were added. That's your sugar high, 2019 won't be anything like 18. But HEY, revenues are at a RECORD, I guess you'll hang on to that talking point for a few years.
Now compare that 14B in revenue increase to those measly growth years under Obama, when GDP was ~2% and job growth were consistently at 2.4 million per year.
2010 2,162,706 +58B
2011 2,303,466 +141B
2012 2,449,990 +147B
2013 2,775,106 +325B
2014 3,021,491 +246B
2015 3,249,887 +229B
Yup.... that those tax cuts are surely paying for themselves!!!!
Go ahead and spin those facts, here it comes.... it was SO MUCH easier for Obama!
Hmmm, a few of you need to brush-up on economics. It's been proven over and over and over that tax cuts for the wealthy do zilch for the economy. It's common sense really.
That is why these tax cuts were for everyone, including doubling the standard deduction.
Ldn
My first job after graduating in 1967 was the GE lamp division. Their biggest cash cow at the time. Their training and internal audit functions proved better than an MBA. It was my lowest offer, $7,800/yr, but by far the best. I did a lot of travel to other division facilities and met fabulously talented people. I owe my entire career to a man who managed their Pittsburgh operation, George Bechler. He hired many of the people in their distribution department. My grades were not stellar but a 36 on the Wonderlic and our interview prompted George to take a chance on a short kid from the sticks.
So sad to see their demise. They have sloughed off most of their manufacturing to China so God bless karma.
So sad to see their demise. They have sloughed off most of their manufacturing to China so God bless karma.
Same for me, @howie81. I’m in Massachusetts and after years of itemizing deductions, I was close but had no benefit from itemizing last year. I tried to move some things around so I have a better chance of itemizing for this year.
Same with me. You seem fine with that. I am not happy that my tax bill increased in 2018 due to loss of SALT deductions.
What about ignoring all the data and information to instead still believe what you "feel" (or wish) must be true, as you're doing? Does that make one a bad person? I don't want to think poorly of you, Howie, but I'm on the fence regarding that one.
If you live in NYC or San Francisco and have even one kid, you'd be scraping by on $100k due to the cost of living.
The US already had a competitive tax rate (once you take into account all the deductions, loopholes, etc. - lowering the effective tax rate), and now corporations not only got their tax rate cut, they still pretty much got to keep all the deductions, loopholes, etc. (even before the tax cut, there were corporations paying little to nothing in taxes).
But even w/ the lowered corp. tax rate, this hasn't stopped companies from continuing to use off-shore tax shelters and the like (why pay the lowered rate when you can pay even less?).
And on top of that, corporations still insist on state subsidies for new or continued investments (more corporate welfare).
The bulk of the savings went into share buybacks (gee, I wonder who that helps?).
And yet, despite all the savings - companies are still slashing jobs.
Even jobs w/ require a high degree of education/training are being cut and outsourced - whether that be via hiring cheaper workers w/ H1-B visas or off-shoring (a favorite for many large and immensely wealthy corporations is to cut their IT dept., but even accounting and basic legal work is being done off-shore).
Doesn't matter about the tax rate being cut - CEOs are always looking to continue cutting costs (as that increases share prices which directly benefits their bank accounts) and salaried workers are the easiest way of doing that.
A certain group wants to harken back to the good ol' days of the 1950s-1960s - back when the American middle class was at its peak.
But guess what?
That's when the US was most like a Scandinavian, socialist/capitalist democracy.
Top marginal tax rate of over 90% (am no way suggesting a return to that level).
CEOs making 20-25 times in pay of the avg. salary instead of 250-300x.
Govt. heavily subsidizing higher education and home ownership (via GI Bill).
Large infrastructure projects like the National Interstate Highway System.
All that - while paying down the immense debt accrued for WWII.
Last edited:
Great post. There was a time not long ago when we had adult discussions in this country - how to balance debt, tax burden, infrastructure and social programs. Eisenhower would not recognize his party today.
the scary thing i see now is what the poster commented above, now white collar jobs are being outsourced. we all know a lot of manufacturing jobs left in the 80, 90, and 2000s but now you are seeing engineering, accounting, business administration jobs being outsourced to India and Asia. you cannot have an economy based on purely service industry jobs as that is like in breeding as there is no source of outside income coming in to support. it is truly a worldwide economy now with the huge advances in IT over the past 5 years where now you can share everything in the cloud and video conferencing making outsourcing overseas so much more simple. Now you can pay a white collar worker $10-$12 an hour in India or Poland or Southeast Asia and that is who the competition is for american jobs.
It is a shame that the government isn't actually talking about how to fix the issues and make america a leader again as I think coming out of the next recession, and trust me a big recession is coming as I see it now working in industry that several large jobs have been canceled and several more put on hold until 2020 which means industry is back to hoarding cash again. And this next recession is going to be longer as the debt load is also starting to put a huge strain on the economy that when that recession is over, I am not sure america is the dominant economic power anymore. very scary.
It is a shame that the government isn't actually talking about how to fix the issues and make america a leader again as I think coming out of the next recession, and trust me a big recession is coming as I see it now working in industry that several large jobs have been canceled and several more put on hold until 2020 which means industry is back to hoarding cash again. And this next recession is going to be longer as the debt load is also starting to put a huge strain on the economy that when that recession is over, I am not sure america is the dominant economic power anymore. very scary.
I am waiting for a simple admission from a group of people who insisted the tax cuts would torpedo government income.
From there... we can debate other complexities but I wont get it.
A few years ago when govt started messing with taxes on dividenslds some corps borrowed to bring dividends forward.
Now people are going after stock buybacks.
Probably going to push buybacks offshore and create an expense vs retained earnings.
Corporate tax revenues get skewed pretty hard when you mess with taxes.
LdN
The number is posted showed that the increase in government income is much less in year one of the tax curt
There are so many talking points in here it is tough to respond to the serious issues.
1. Cant compare average ceos in the 50s to today. Companies are 50 to 100x the size. Whether or not that means the ceo should be paid 10x more than then I dont know.
2. The issue was that we did raise taxes on corps and they began moving... where? To our $hitty brother Canada of all places. So as we were increasing tax rates we were strsngling our corps out of the country.
3. Stock buybacks help shareholders. Full stop. That is who companies work for.
4. Visa workers I agree completely on. Walk around FiDi and you see the abuse. Most of these people are underpaid and cannot leave the company they work for. But also this happens at the low end with hourly wages and illegal immigrants. That isnt just south americans. Tons of eastern europeans.
5. Yes government fixes are mostly crap. But the crap comes in enforcement. Look at Madoff. All the rukes and oversight were there... just govt didnt care. That is the same for other govt agencies.
LdN
“ Common sense “ isn’t always confirmed by data.
Tell me, when are tax rates too high ?
Ok, here goes...
I love how the Right has redefined "socialist" to mean "rich people pay a penny of tax."
Just like how the Right redefined the First Amendment to mean "corporations are allowed to spend unlimited money to buy Congress."
Or "Christians are allowed to persecute gay people because their right to religious bigotry is more important than someone else's right to exist." How people get that out of the First Amendment is pretty astonishing, but we live in a country that is beyond Orwell.
What people call "socialist" -- things like Social Security and Medicare -- used to be mainstays of America. Now it's all under attack. The American Taliban won't stop until the whole country is a scorched earth desert and we are all servants to the wealthy.
I love how the Right has redefined "socialist" to mean "rich people pay a penny of tax."
Just like how the Right redefined the First Amendment to mean "corporations are allowed to spend unlimited money to buy Congress."
Or "Christians are allowed to persecute gay people because their right to religious bigotry is more important than someone else's right to exist." How people get that out of the First Amendment is pretty astonishing, but we live in a country that is beyond Orwell.
What people call "socialist" -- things like Social Security and Medicare -- used to be mainstays of America. Now it's all under attack. The American Taliban won't stop until the whole country is a scorched earth desert and we are all servants to the wealthy.
I don’t think so. JFK’s focus was civil rights, closing tax loopholes for oil companies, massive government funding for basic science research and the space program, Peace Corps, Food for Peace programs, etc.
Eisenhower would be called a RINO traitor today for his warnings on the military-industrial complex, high taxes to support infrastructure projects, support for social programs like the GI Bill...no comparison.
Actually, I think your "mainstays of America" started in the mid 1930s and mid 1960s. I think we had a country before then.
When people draw more benefits than they put into the system it is, in effect, like a Ponzi Scheme. There is no way to undo it at this point and still be fair to those who paid in to these programs. The crime was committed when these programs were invented without addressing the unintended consequences.
For example, old people on Medicare invariably go through massive amounts of defensive, unnecessary testing when they go to the hospital with an ailment. Why? Because most of the payment comes from public insurance, and doctors/hospitals can be privately sued. Others make up for the cost by paying higher premiums. Thus "Medicare for All" could never work without significant reforms in other areas, but I don't hear anyone talking about those details. So we really do not know who will pay, and what will be paid, should medicine become fully socialized.
As for your other musings, well, they seem to be coming from a frustrated, embittered Leftist. Not saying that those on the Right communicate constructively, but this sort of rhetoric is exactly the reason we are in a stalemate.
I don't know of a single "Christian" who believes gays do not have the right to exist. In fact the most Christian of "Christians" I know is a gay man, a missionary. But let's assume that there are such people. By labeling them in this way you've just alienated the majority of Christians who do believe gays have the right to exist. Think they are going to be sympathetic to your positions? On other matters?
This sort of extremism is exactly the thing that drives division in our country. Want to create more racism? Start calling people racists who are not really racists.
Last edited:
