OT: In no surprise Dustin Johnson chases Saudi cash

[Obliviax]

The events you mentioned are much older than the LIV Tour. The Ryder Cup started in '27; the President's Cup started in '94, and the Fed Ex Cup in 2007. The PGA Tour isn't "putting them together"; they've been together. The reason for the later two was draw additional fan interest apart from the majors with the claimed intent of "growing the game." Ironically, the President's Cup and Fed Ex Cup were two things some of the LIV Tour players complained about.

I don't particularly care if players want to move to LIV; it's their call. If it's better for them - fewer tournaments, fewer rounds, and good pay, go for it. At the same time, I don't mind if the other tours don't welcome them. They support a competitor, why would any organization treat them like they didn't?

Fair comments...thank you.

PGA has been using them as tools to keep players on the US Tour and to "qualify" for those events. That is what the LIV players complained about. Being a 40 year old guy with 20 years on the tour having to play a ton of events to get the points to qualify.

You may agree or disagree with that policy but I can't fault a player for wanting to get paid more for less work. As DJ said in the Netflix show "it was a simple decision, I could make twice as much with half the work. Who wouldn't take that offer?"

I also agree, if the tours don't welcome them, that is their business. But I feel that this is really short-term thinking. the world is getting smaller and is now a world economy. This is going to happen, be it LIV or somebody else. People can complain about LIV but it can also be described as greed on the part of the PGA.

Bottom line is the competition makes everybody better.

 

[86Engineer]

The events you mentioned are much older than the LIV Tour. The Ryder Cup started in '27; the President's Cup started in '94, and the Fed Ex Cup in 2007. The PGA Tour isn't "putting them together"; they've been together. The reason for the later two was draw additional fan interest apart from the majors with the claimed intent of "growing the game." Ironically, the President's Cup and Fed Ex Cup were two things some of the LIV Tour players complained about - both required them to play more and more often.

I don't particularly care if players want to move to LIV; it's their call. If it's better for them - fewer tournaments, fewer rounds, and good pay, go for it. At the same time, I don't mind if the other tours don't welcome them. They support a competitor, why would any organization treat them like they didn't?

Your recent posts are very good, OaktonDave.

Suggesting that the PGA or European tours should embrace/welcome LIV golfers is like suggesting that the NFL should invite the USFL and/or XFL champions into their league, or worse yet, into their playoffs.

The USGA and R&A are there to grow the game. The tours can certainly help, but after all, for example, we don't expect Formula 1 or NASCAR to be the driving force behind the growth of the automobile industry.

 

[Obliviax]

Your recent posts are very good, OaktonDave.

Suggesting that the PGA or European tours should embrace/welcome LIV golfers is like suggesting that the NFL should invite the USFL and/or XFL champions into their league, or worse yet, into their playoffs.

The USGA and R&A are there to grow the game. The tours can certainly help, but after all, for example, we don't expect Formula 1 or NASCAR to be the driving force behind the growth of the automobile industry.

couple of things. I think there can be a good argument made that the NFL is a better league today because of the American Football League and USFL. Second, there is not "playoff". The four majors are really independent of the PGA. There was never any real reason why all the qualified players couldn't play despite what league they play in.

Lastly, the PGA was fat and complacent. One only needs to look at the massive increase in purses for PGA that suddenly appeared this year. And there are plenty of stories where the PGA was abusive (not like beating but they were the only game in town) toward players. Phil Mickelson, who can be bit salty, was a tour hero until he left then was suddenly called a pariah. I don't get that level of discourse.

When all is said and done, ten years from now, I think we'll be singing a different toon. There is a ton more money in the game today than two years ago and ratings are up.

 

[ncgolfer]

This issue has me perplexed. Don't we get tons of golfers from around the world playing on the PGA tour? don't they often play in the Euro tour? Why is the Saudi tour any different?

I was shocked at the ferociousness of the attack the Golf Channel took on Michelson. Of course, as soon as somebody doesn't do their bidding, they are suddenly hooked on coke and gambling. Why didn't they expose that back when they were doing the PGA's bidding? Seems odd that they'd suddenly get virtuous. Why is a player playing out his contract with the Guardians and taking a huge payday from the Red Sox or Yankees OK if an independent PGA player not be allowed to play in another tour?

Good reading on Vijay Sing's issues with the PGA tour. The PGA publicly hammered him until it was proven he did nothing wrong. Then, the PGA figures "ah what the hell, no problem ruining his chances to get endorsements. We are the effing PGA dammit!".

time for the PGA to get taken down a few notches, IMHO>

Rory McIlroy seemed to be one of the lead complainers about PGA players leaving for LIV money. But isn’t that one of Rory’s motivations for coming to the much wealthier PGA from the European Tour. And Rory, among others, has taken shots at the questionable history of Saudi Arabia. But Rory had no problem playing in and winning the WGC-HSBC in Shanghai. And nothing happens in China without CCP support and approval.

 

[ryoder1]

Rory McIlroy seemed to be one of the lead complainers about PGA players leaving for LIV money. But isn’t that one of Rory’s motivations for coming to the much wealthier PGA from the European Tour. And Rory, among others, has taken shots at the questionable history of Saudi Arabia. But Rory had no problem playing in and winning the WGC-HSBC in Shanghai. And nothing happens in China without CCP support and approval.

Rory McIlroy needs to shut up and play better so he can maybe make the U.S. Open cut since he couldn't do that at Augusta. Stop meddling in what Phil or other LIV tour players decide to do. They can do whatever they want and the PGA just has to sit there and take it up the you know what.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

This issue has me perplexed. Don't we get tons of golfers from around the world playing on the PGA tour? don't they often play in the Euro tour? Why is the Saudi tour any different?

I was shocked at the ferociousness of the attack the Golf Channel took on Michelson. Of course, as soon as somebody doesn't do their bidding, they are suddenly hooked on coke and gambling. Why didn't they expose that back when they were doing the PGA's bidding? Seems odd that they'd suddenly get virtuous. Why is a player playing out his contract with the Guardians and taking a huge payday from the Red Sox or Yankees OK if an independent PGA player not be allowed to play in another tour?

Good reading on Vijay Sing's issues with the PGA tour. The PGA publicly hammered him until it was proven he did nothing wrong. Then, the PGA figures "ah what the hell, no problem ruining his chances to get endorsements. We are the effing PGA dammit!".

time for the PGA to get taken down a few notches, IMHO>

Agree. And it has been a long time coming. The snobbery of the PGA has mutated over time but has never left the organization.

 

[fkkkjm]

Rory McIlroy needs to shut up and play better so he can maybe make the U.S. Open cut since he couldn't do that at Augusta. Stop meddling in what Phil or other LIV tour players decide to do. They can do whatever they want and the PGA just has to sit there and take it up the you know what.

In his defense, he was doing most of his talking when Mickelsen was doing his in support of LIV. Rory seems like a good guy, so I hope he can refocus. He’s been one of the most vocal supporters of the PGA, and I’m sure it’s affected his game to some degree.

 

[Obliviax]

Looks like Tiger, who recently had surgery on his leg, is done for the year. He just gave his caddie (Joe LaCava) permission to carry for Patrick Cantlay for the remainder of the year.

Joe LaCava to caddie for Patrick Cantlay for 'the foreseeable future,' according to report

Tiger Woods' longtime looper Joe LaCava is on the bag of Patrick Cantlay at the Wells Fargo, and it's reportedly a permanent move.

www.golfdigest.com

 

[Cletus11]

i stumbled upon LIV this weekend. I watched for about 20 minutes. Looked like I was watching some charity tournament with the way the guys looked and generally carried on. I was suspecting that I was going to see the beer girl come around in the cart and these guys to pop open a few beers on the tee.

 

[Obliviax]

i stumbled upon LIV this weekend. I watched for about 20 minutes. Looked like I was watching some charity tournament with the way the guys looked and generally carried on. I was suspecting that I was going to see the beer girl come around in the cart and these guys to pop open a few beers on the tee.

totally agree. the music is the thing that bothers me most. The shorts are second. But the overall production value sucks IMHO. The graphic, the contrived "Teams", the video...at the end of the day, the PGA production makes you feel like you are on a beautiful fairway at a quite golf course.

Having said that, the quality of play is just as good, if not better, than the PGA.

 

[Obliviax]

the last golfers involved with the LIV lawsuit against the PGA dropped out leaving zero golfers as plaintiffs. Looks like there is a thaw between the PGA and LIV. there have also been rumors that LIV golfers have quietly approached the PGA about coming back.

Jones, DeChambeau Officially Leave LIV Golf v. PGA Tour Lawsuit

In an expected move, Matt Jones and Bryson DeChambeau have withdrawn from LIV's lawsuit against the PGA Tour, leaving no golfers as part of the case.

www.sportico.com

 

[Cletus11]

the last golfers involved with the LIV lawsuit against the PGA dropped out leaving zero golfers as plaintiffs. Looks like there is a thaw between the PGA and LIV. there have also been rumors that LIV golfers have quietly approached the PGA about coming back.

Jones, DeChambeau Officially Leave LIV Golf v. PGA Tour Lawsuit

In an expected move, Matt Jones and Bryson DeChambeau have withdrawn from LIV's lawsuit against the PGA Tour, leaving no golfers as part of the case.

www.sportico.com

as i mentioned, watching the LIV was like a bunch of guys playing in a charity scramble event on a summer Saturday. just did not look serious or professional. wonder if some of the golfers that are still in their general prime of career are the one's wanting to come back. I think for guys like Mickelson that are getting paid huge money and are really looking for less events and probably don't care as much about the competitive being the best in the world the LIV tour is perfect.

 

[Obliviax]

as i mentioned, watching the LIV was like a bunch of guys playing in a charity scramble event on a summer Saturday. just did not look serious or professional. wonder if some of the golfers that are still in their general prime of career are the one's wanting to come back. I think for guys like Mickelson that are getting paid huge money and are really looking for less events and probably don't care as much about the competitive being the best in the world the LIV tour is perfect.

yep...Phil is not going to win very many, if any at all, tournaments so why not take the $200m and run? he's also had lots of run ins with the PGA over the years.

I watched a little of their last two events and I noticed the music wasn't playing. Perhaps they toned that down. But it does look like its geared toward kids. Personally, I like the relaxing hushed tones and birds chirping on the PGA events. But I will say this, LIV has the stronger field of golfers right now. And, who knows how well this is playing in the middle east, India and far east. it may well end up being a boon for the game.

 

[Erial_Lion]

But I will say this, LIV has the stronger field of golfers right now.

Couldn't disagree more...on what basis are they putting out stronger fields? The PGA is clearly much stronger.

 

[Obliviax]

Couldn't disagree more...on what basis are they putting out stronger fields? The PGA is clearly much stronger.

Just looking at head to head in the Masters and, so far, at the PGA.

dustin johnson, Koepka, DeChambeau, Mito Pereira all playing well. Given that they only have 50 golfers or so, they are performing very well.

 

[Relayer]

Just looking at head to head in the Masters and, so far, at the PGA.

dustin johnson, Koepka, DeChambeau, Mito Pereira all playing well. Given that they only have 50 golfers or so, they are performing very well.

If Chase Koepka is one of LIV's top 48 players, I am not impressed. The guy would struggle to qualify for Korn Ferry tournaments.

 

[Obliviax]

Well, a LIV player won the PGA Championship with two more finishing in the top 10 (DeChambeau and Cam Smith). Reed & Pereira finished in the top 20. Varner, Pieters, Brumeister Michelson Kim and DJ all made the cut and finished.

But a star was born. Rocherster's own Michael Block stole the show as one of the invited club pros. Not only did he enter Sunday in the top ten (paired with superstar Rory McIlroy) he played well finishing in the top 15. But what was truly amazing, he shot a hole-in-one on the par 3 16th hole. He ****ing swished it! If you haven't seen the video, it was one of those incredible sports moments we'll never see again. He simply could not believe it and kept asking "is it in the hole?" In the post-game, he noted (after being is awe of playing with world superstar, Rory) that Rory gave him a hug. He didn't know why but, hey, if Rory wants to hug you, you hug him back.

After the tournament, The Colonial (next week's tour event) invited him to play as an exception and the Canadian Open also invited him. He is not a card-carrying tour PGA pro.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Well, a LIV player won the PGA Championship with two more finishing in the top 10 (DeChambeau and Cam Smith). Reed & Pereira finished in the top 20. Varner, Pieters, Brumeister Michelson Kim and DJ all made the cut and finished.

But a star was born. Rocherster's own Michael Block stole the show as one of the invited club pros. Not only did he enter Sunday in the top ten (paired with superstar Rory McIlroy) he played well finishing in the top 15. But what was truly amazing, he shot a hole-in-one on the par 3 16th hole. He ****ing swished it! If you haven't seen the video, it was one of those incredible sports moments we'll never see again. He simply could not believe it and kept asking "is it in the hole?" In the post-game, he noted (after being is awe of playing with world superstar, Rory) that Rory gave him a hug. He didn't know why but, hey, if Rory wants to hug you, you hug him back.

After the tournament, The Colonial (next week's tour event) invited him to play as an exception and the Canadian Open also invited him. He is not a card-carrying tour PGA pro.

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Won a cool 300k too

 

[Obliviax]

Won a cool 300k too

He needs to hire an agent, and quickly. Clearly the colonial and Canadian open want his new "star power" to get additional revenue. He should negotiate a fee for that. At the same time, every golf equip manufacturer will want him for endorsements. He should get that too.

With some luck, if he never makes a PGA cut again, he should be able to make several million.

 

[rrdd2021]

Well, a LIV player won the PGA Championship with two more finishing in the top 10 (DeChambeau and Cam Smith). Reed & Pereira finished in the top 20. Varner, Pieters, Brumeister Michelson Kim and DJ all made the cut and finished.

But a star was born. Rocherster's own Michael Block stole the show as one of the invited club pros. Not only did he enter Sunday in the top ten (paired with superstar Rory McIlroy) he played well finishing in the top 15. But what was truly amazing, he shot a hole-in-one on the par 3 16th hole. He ****ing swished it! If you haven't seen the video, it was one of those incredible sports moments we'll never see again. He simply could not believe it and kept asking "is it in the hole?" In the post-game, he noted (after being is awe of playing with world superstar, Rory) that Rory gave him a hug. He didn't know why but, hey, if Rory wants to hug you, you hug him back.

After the tournament, The Colonial (next week's tour event) invited him to play as an exception and the Canadian Open also invited him. He is not a card-carrying tour PGA pro.

View embedded media

Well, a LIV player won the PGA Championship with two more finishing in the top 10 (DeChambeau and Cam Smith). Reed & Pereira finished in the top 20. Varner, Pieters, Brumeister Michelson Kim and DJ all made the cut and finished.

But a star was born. Rocherster's own Michael Block stole the show as one of the invited club pros. Not only did he enter Sunday in the top ten (paired with superstar Rory McIlroy) he played well finishing in the top 15. But what was truly amazing, he shot a hole-in-one on the par 3 16th hole. He ****ing swished it! If you haven't seen the video, it was one of those incredible sports moments we'll never see again. He simply could not believe it and kept asking "is it in the hole?" In the post-game, he noted (after being is awe of playing with world superstar, Rory) that Rory gave him a hug. He didn't know why but, hey, if Rory wants to hug you, you hug him back.

After the tournament, The Colonial (next week's tour event) invited him to play as an exception and the Canadian Open also invited him. He is not a card-carrying tour PGA pro.

View embedded media

The LIV has a few really good players, no doubt. My problem is where the money is coming from. Sorry, I still have those horrendous images of 9 / 11 and just can't stomach anything Saudi. If anyone thinks that they wouldn't love to see us destroyed and burn in hell, they're sadly mistaken.

 

[86Engineer]

The LIV has a few really good players, no doubt. My problem is where the money is coming from. Sorry, I still have those horrendous images of 9 / 11 and just can't stomach anything Saudi. If anyone thinks that they wouldn't love to see us destroyed and burn in hell, they're sadly mistaken.

I'm getting a little tired of the LIV folk patting themselves on the back for Koepka's PGA win. One guy won, not the entire tour.

Anyone with 1/2 a brain realizes that Koepka, DJ, DeChambeau and a handful of others are capable of winning a major. Doesn't change the fact that the other bums on the LIV tour need to qualify for the majors, same as everyone else. That said, the OWGR needs to adjust for their watered-down tour that has weaker overall competition and no cut, and if that means fewer LIV golfers in majors, then so be it.

 

[Obliviax]

The LIV has a few really good players, no doubt. My problem is where the money is coming from. Sorry, I still have those horrendous images of 9 / 11 and just can't stomach anything Saudi. If anyone thinks that they wouldn't love to see us destroyed and burn in hell, they're sadly mistaken.

I am getting to the point where I believe that Saudi money, is at least, from bad guys that don't try to hide it. USA money isn't much, if any, better. After COVID, and several other incidents I don't care to name on this board, it is becoming clear to me that this notion of justice in America no longer exists.

The PGA, finally dealing with pressure, screwed up. We have worldwide markets today. Golf will be better over the long run. Somebody once said "Iron sharpens Iron".

Dustin Johnson had a good response on the series "Full Swing" on Netflix. When asked about leaving the PGA for LIV, he said "It was pretty simple. I could make twice as much working half as hard. What would you do?"

IMHO, the PGA now has a problem on their hands. They had hoped the LIV players wouldn't perform well in the majors. Right now, they have a win and second place in the two majors. (actually, two LIV players tied for second place so they really had a 2nd and 3rd). Now, keeping them off the Ryder Cup looks like spite.