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OT - How to calculate average height of a building (permit question)

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Mufasa2

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Feb 5, 2003
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My local zoning requires my proposed workshop/storage building have an average height of 15 feet. I was originally planning a 2 floor 15x30 structure but now have to scale back a bit. I was thinking of doing part of the building as a 2 story, and then the rest as 1 story (possibly with a flat roof/deck).

I've been researching and can't seem to find a simple calculation that i can run to try various structural designs. I was a poly sci major at PSU for the record, def not an engineer.. :)
 
Mufasa2 said:
My local zoning requires my proposed workshop/storage building have an average height of 15 feet. I was originally planning a 2 floor 15x30 structure but now have to scale back a bit. I was thinking of doing part of the building as a 2 story, and then the rest as 1 story (possibly with a flat roof/deck).

I've been researching and can't seem to find a simple calculation that i can run to try various structural designs. I was a poly sci major at PSU for the record, def not an engineer.. :)
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All of the Zoning Boards codes I've been introduced have a maximum height per zoning area. An average structure height must be defined (and how it's determined in the codes). No one can help you unless we see the codes. What are the determing parameters to "AVERAGE STRUCTURE HEIGHT".

Send me the zoning laws, maybe i can lead you in the right direction.
 
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step.eng69 said:
All of the Zoning Boards codes I've been introduced have a maximum height per zoning area. An average structure height must be defined (and how it's determined in the codes). No one can help you unless we see the codes. What are the determing parameters to "AVERAGE STRUCTURE HEIGHT".

Send me the zoning laws, maybe i can lead you in the right direction.
Click to expand...


It's Susquehanna township, right outside of Harrisburg. I can't find the exact language of the zoning regs though. I guess I need to followup with the zoning officer. :)
 
Mufasa2 said:
It's Susquehanna township, right outside of Harrisburg. I can't find the exact language of the zoning regs though. I guess I need to followup with the zoning officer. :)
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Sometimes the zoning codes are free to download, work has been a little slow, this may keep me interested in helping a brother in the insane era we live.

You do understand that Im a little crazed with our society. Just a thought to digest.
Good night my friend, I'm two fingers deep in my bourbon.
TStep
 
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step.eng69 said:
Sometimes the zoning codes are free to download, work has been a little slow, this may keep me interested in helping a brother in the insane era we live.

You do understand that Im a little crazed with our society. Just a thought to digest.
Good night my friend, I'm two fingers deep in my bourbon.
TStep
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I appreciate it! i'm still looking around for the zoning codes on the twp website. I was looking at the variance criteria and it really seems focused on "hardship criteria". I really can't claim any kind of hardship, the proposed building is for a workshop to do woodworking projects that I truly enjoy doing, but I'm not facing any gigantic "hardship".

I'm 3 glasses deep in my wine, how does that compare??? :)
 
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Mufasa2 said:
My local zoning requires my proposed workshop/storage building have an average height of 15 feet. I was originally planning a 2 floor 15x30 structure but now have to scale back a bit. I was thinking of doing part of the building as a 2 story, and then the rest as 1 story (possibly with a flat roof/deck).

I've been researching and can't seem to find a simple calculation that i can run to try various structural designs. I was a poly sci major at PSU for the record, def not an engineer.. :)
Click to expand...

For 10 grand a 20 foot building looks a lot like 15 feet.;)
 
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Mufasa2 said:
My local zoning requires my proposed workshop/storage building have an average height of 15 feet. I was originally planning a 2 floor 15x30 structure but now have to scale back a bit. I was thinking of doing part of the building as a 2 story, and then the rest as 1 story (possibly with a flat roof/deck).

I've been researching and can't seem to find a simple calculation that i can run to try various structural designs. I was a poly sci major at PSU for the record, def not an engineer.. :)
Click to expand...

I believe that the average height requirement is meant to address sloping properties. So if you have a flat lot, then the average height would be from the ground elevation to the highest point of the roof. If the land is sloping then you take the height at the ground low point to the top of the roof and average that dimension with the ground high point to the high point of the roof. Unless you're building into a really sloping site, I think you're probably stuck with one floor and whatever space you can use in an attic.

Without seeing the actual language though, this is just an educated guess.
 
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SLUPSU said:
I believe that the average height requirement is meant to address sloping properties. So if you have a flat lot, then the average height would be from the ground elevation to the highest point of the roof. If the land is sloping then you take the height at the ground low point to the top of the roof and average that dimension with the ground high point to the high point of the roof. Unless you're building into a really sloping site, I think you're probably stuck with one floor and whatever space you can use in an attic.

Without seeing the actual language though, this is just an educated guess.
Click to expand...

Mufasa2 said:
I've been researching and can't seem to find a simple calculation that
Click to expand...

Correct SLUPSU, but the ground elevation could be "the origional ground" prior to excavation or the finished grade, depending on the Twp codes. I understand that PA has adopted the 2018 IBC CODE, but so I would imagine the 2018 IRC Residential would also be included. I did not find the Susquehanna township code on line this morning.


 
If the out building has a 20 x 20 or similar footprint, use the center of the footprint as ground level, providing the existing ground is reasonably level, build the building to the height considered as "average"..15' or whatever is called out in the code.
 
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step.eng69 said:
Correct SLUPSU, but the ground elevation could be "the origional ground" prior to excavation or the finished grade, depending on the Twp codes. I understand that PA has adopted the 2018 IBC CODE, but so I would imagine the 2018 IRC Residential would also be included. I did not find the Susquehanna township code on line this morning.
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Step, I’m a zoning/codes officer. FYI, PA enforces the 2015 IBC and IRC (among other ICC codes) as the statewide building codes, not 2018. As far as the OP’s question, maximum building height is typically a zoning issue, not a building code issue and the definition may vary from municipality to municipality. In the Borough I work for, maximum building height is defined as the average height from finished grade.
 
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Pocono Lion said:
Step, I’m a zoning/codes officer. FYI, PA enforces the 2015 IBC and IRC (among other ICC codes) as the statewide building codes, not 2018. As far as the OP’s question, maximum building height is typically a zoning issue, not a building code issue and the definition may vary from municipality to municipality. In the Borough I work for, maximum building height is defined as the average height from finished grade.
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The reason I mentioned the IBC 2018....I was at Lehigh this past winter earning a days worth of PDH credits as necessary to comply with licensing requirements in the states I'm registered.

One of the topics was the new wind load requirements for structures in accordance w/IBC 2018. I questioned the instructor on that. He told me PA is in the process of adopting the 2018.


As far as I'm concerned, all of these people writing and rewriting codes every two years for the betterment of protecting the health and welfare of the public is a joke already. They can all go to hell. I'm not the only engineer that feels this way.

Several years ago, the American Society of Civil Engineers sent out some real life exam problems, as one would encounter in daily practice, to the membership requesting the applicable code wind loading be calculated for various building applications. A sad 5% were able to apply the code appropriately.
 
I doubt PA will be adopting the 2018 codes anytime soon, the revision to Act 45 adopting 2015 just took effect last October. If you know the history in PA, the Corbett administration had legislation passed doing away with the automatic 3 year rollover of the ICC codes, so the 2009 ICC codes were the law of the land for a long time. One issue with not adopting the most current ICC codes is that you take a big hit with ISO rating if you’re not enforcing the most current version of the Code.
 
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Pocono Lion said:
One issue with not adopting the most current ICC codes is that you take a big hit with ISO rating if you’re not enforcing the most current version of the Code.
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I understand fully where you are comming from Pocono Lion, these days, l see the higher the rating, the safety of the public ismuch enhanced, similarly as the children of PA are more protected from abuse thru the efforts of Louie the
Lip, the AGs office and the meathead politicals drafting multitudes of laws that can't be enforced.

Not directed at you Pocono, I greatly understand the seriousness of your position, but at 70, I feel like the dark era has arrived, with fools to the left and fools to the right directing society with nonsensical dribble as their need to be heard.
 
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Mufasa2 said:
My local zoning requires my proposed workshop/storage building have an average height of 15 feet. I was originally planning a 2 floor 15x30 structure but now have to scale back a bit. I was thinking of doing part of the building as a 2 story, and then the rest as 1 story (possibly with a flat roof/deck).

I've been researching and can't seem to find a simple calculation that i can run to try various structural designs. I was a poly sci major at PSU for the record, def not an engineer.. :)
Click to expand...

LINK

That reminds me of the story in the link. A con man got away with fraud because on building blueprints he used inches for external dimensions and nobody caught it. The result was a very weird building.
 
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