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OT: Ask Zig Anything . . . and interview with Chuck Buskirk

TenerHallTerror

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Oct 18, 2016
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Ziegler has the podcasts mislabeled, but some interesting stuff

Part 2 is the interview with Lock Haven resident Chuck Buskirk




Part 3 is the AJA . . . interesting point that he held open requests for a full week and NOT ONE of his critics bothered to post a question. hmmmmmmm

 
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Ziegler has the podcasts mislabeled, but some interesting stuff

Part 2 is the interview with Lock Haven resident Chuck Buskirk




Part 3 is the AJA . . . interesting point that he held open requests for a full week and NOT ONE of his critics bothered to post a question. hmmmmmmm


C’mon man! All the child sex abuse experts could tell you it’s perfectly normal behavior for a victim of child sex abuse to offer to buy his buddy a truck if he’d make up a story about witnessing a kiss that never happened.
 
C’mon man! All the child sex abuse experts could tell you it’s perfectly normal behavior for a victim of child sex abuse to offer to buy his buddy a truck if he’d make up a story about witnessing a kiss that never happened.

we know all the neighbors, all the ex girlfriends, all the ex friends . . . they are all lying. all of Lock Haven is lying except the rich people.
 
interesting point that he held open requests for a full week and NOT ONE of his critics bothered to post a question

<raises hand> I'll play. I was not aware Zig had this open request thing. And I'd be loathe to ask him anything after the way he treated me over the phone. That was pretty bad.

Anyway - Listened to the first podcast. Interesting the $7 Million this Neff guy got. I'd be curious if his lawyer will suffer any professional blowback on this, or decision makers at PSU that approved this, or is it just a matter that since Penn State rolled over and paid these unvetted claimants - it's just "oh well"? I have no idea how that works - and at this point, I don't give a rip how much Penn State has paid out. Eff Em.

My biggest question for Zig is why he doesn't address Jack Raykovitz's failure to implement a written safety plan after both the 1998 & 2001 reports. Jack knows full well that Jerry is accessing Second Mile kids in flagrant Out-Of-Program contact. Unless Jack was shitting us all in that Dauphin County courtroom last March, Jack pretty much admitted he knew Jerry was clearly acting outside his prescribed role with the charity, which places Jerry at massive risk.

This is a HUGE red flag - and Jack simply rolled it up and kicked it under his desk (or maybe the cocktail table over at the Autoport Lounge where Jack seemed to spend most of his time)

If CEO Jack and his charity VP/wife had practiced proper oversight - Aaron Fisher never happens. Which still begs the question - what the hell was Jack and Katherine doing?

I still can't get past the hurdle of an adult climbing into bed with a minor, disrobing & exposing yourself to a minor, kissing/cuddling a minor, personally communicating with a minor, babysitting a minor at their home, etc. These are all activities, especially when you add in the radioactive element of at-risk kids from dysfunctional families - just sets you up for MAJOR problems. A kids charity chairman, who can't grasp that......well, I just don't know what else to say.
 
Aaron Fisher never happened anyway.

As for your broken Jack R record, you had all week to ask JZ.

I was not aware there was an "Ask JZ" segment. I don't follow him on Twitter, nor do I follow him on Facebook. So I guess I whiffed there, huh?

As for "Aaron Fisher" - Jerry placed himself at risk. Sorry, but it's my opinion that had he practiced proper rules and just stuck to his Chairman/Fundraiser/Emcee role with the charity - and not gotten involved with a Second Mile minor that was OUTSIDE HIS ROLE with the charity, then "Aaron Fisher" never happens.

So I guess I'll stick to my broken Jack R record. Where is Jack and his wife in publicly supporting Zig's work? Why do they get to gad about town, not a care in the world?
 
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Shapiro's executive team knew of the Fake Accuser back in November 2016. I asked Zig about bringing it up with them. Zig, after insulting me over the phone with spittle-laced invectives, acquiesced and gave me the go-ahead. So I introduced him in an email to Josh's assistant, explained the situation about this "accuser" set up and fed by Centre County laywer Shubin and handed off the baton.

So in a reply email to me - Zig stated "What the f*ck do you think you're doing". Oh well.

I'd like to know where our state AG "No One Is Above The Law" Shapiro is regarding Andrew Shubin scamming both the system and a public institution.

Lastly, if I was accused of anally raping children, and my physical characteristics are such that it makes that activity just about impossible AND anyone who saw my genitals as they said they did, would be able to explain this - THEN why the HELL hasn't Jerry made that known? He's willing to get absolutely roasted at trial, his life destroyed, his family destroyed and be incarcerated over that? SERIOUSLY?

My God, we know more about MMQ's genitalia and we didn't have to ask for that sh*t.

I give up.
 
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He actually answers all your questions Wen in the ask zig hour. The first question was one of the best, and the answer was spot on.
 
Why not email him at talktozig@aol.com and (with his permission) share the response in this thread? He’s never not answered any of my questions, and usually does it pretty quickly.

Shapiro's executive team knew of the Fake Accuser back in November 2016. I asked Zig about bringing it up with them. Zig, after insulting me over the phone with spittle-laced invectives, acquiesced and gave me the go-ahead. So I introduced him in an email to Josh's assistant, explained the situation about this "accuser" set up and fed by Centre County laywer Shubin and handed off the baton.

So in a reply email to me - Zig stated "What the f*ck do you think you're doing". Oh well.

I'd like to know where our state AG "No One Is Above The Law" Shapiro is regarding Andrew Shubin scamming both the system and a public institution.

Lastly, if I was accused of anally raping children, and my physical characteristics are such that it makes that activity just about impossible AND anyone who saw my genitals as they said they did, would be able to explain this - THEN why the HELL hasn't Jerry made that known? He's willing to get absolutely roasted at trial, his life destroyed, his family destroyed and be incarcerated over that? SERIOUSLY?

My God, we know more about MMQ's genitalia and we didn't have to ask for that sh*t.

I give up.
 
I'm beginning to think the local automobile dealers were behind all this. $8 Million to Frank the Tank. Someone defend this.
 
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<raises hand> I'll play. I was not aware Zig had this open request thing. And I'd be loathe to ask him anything after the way he treated me over the phone. That was pretty bad.

Anyway - Listened to the first podcast. Interesting the $7 Million this Neff guy got. I'd be curious if his lawyer will suffer any professional blowback on this, or decision makers at PSU that approved this, or is it just a matter that since Penn State rolled over and paid these unvetted claimants - it's just "oh well"? I have no idea how that works - and at this point, I don't give a rip how much Penn State has paid out. Eff Em.

My biggest question for Zig is why he doesn't address Jack Raykovitz's failure to implement a written safety plan after both the 1998 & 2001 reports. Jack knows full well that Jerry is accessing Second Mile kids in flagrant Out-Of-Program contact. Unless Jack was shitting us all in that Dauphin County courtroom last March, Jack pretty much admitted he knew Jerry was clearly acting outside his prescribed role with the charity, which places Jerry at massive risk.

This is a HUGE red flag - and Jack simply rolled it up and kicked it under his desk (or maybe the cocktail table over at the Autoport Lounge where Jack seemed to spend most of his time)

If CEO Jack and his charity VP/wife had practiced proper oversight - Aaron Fisher never happens. Which still begs the question - what the hell was Jack and Katherine doing?

I still can't get past the hurdle of an adult climbing into bed with a minor, disrobing & exposing yourself to a minor, kissing/cuddling a minor, personally communicating with a minor, babysitting a minor at their home, etc. These are all activities, especially when you add in the radioactive element of at-risk kids from dysfunctional families - just sets you up for MAJOR problems. A kids charity chairman, who can't grasp that......well, I just don't know what else to say.

I agree 100% that if Jerry Sandusky is guilty, then it is complete outrage that Jack Raykovitz walks free while Curley, Schultz, and Spanier are thrown in jail. But John Ziegler believes Sandusky is innocent, so why should he focus on Jack Raykovitz, who at worst made a few unwise and careless choices while many worse injustices occurred at the hands of people like Andrew Shubin, Mike Gillum, Jonelle Eshbach, and some of the accusers?
 
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Shapiro's executive team knew of the Fake Accuser back in November 2016. I asked Zig about bringing it up with them. Zig, after insulting me over the phone with spittle-laced invectives, acquiesced and gave me the go-ahead. So I introduced him in an email to Josh's assistant, explained the situation about this "accuser" set up and fed by Centre County laywer Shubin and handed off the baton.

So in a reply email to me - Zig stated "What the f*ck do you think you're doing". Oh well.

I'd like to know where our state AG "No One Is Above The Law" Shapiro is regarding Andrew Shubin scamming both the system and a public institution.

Lastly, if I was accused of anally raping children, and my physical characteristics are such that it makes that activity just about impossible AND anyone who saw my genitals as they said they did, would be able to explain this - THEN why the HELL hasn't Jerry made that known? He's willing to get absolutely roasted at trial, his life destroyed, his family destroyed and be incarcerated over that? SERIOUSLY?

My God, we know more about MMQ's genitalia and we didn't have to ask for that sh*t.

I give up.

I admit the medical records thing still baffles me. I admit its hard to believe the defense didn’t bring that up. Is Amendola really that incompetent? On the other hand, I can’t possibly see the records being faked. I agree Ziegler’s an ass. He got pissed at me because I questioned his theory that Jerry was asexual, even though I do see eye to eye with him on almost everything. However, Ziegler has never gave me any reason to doubt his honesty on this issue. He is actually very careful about sharing evidence that favors Sandusky until it proves to be legit.
 
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I'm beginning to think the local automobile dealers were behind all this. $8 Million to Frank the Tank. Someone defend this.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/11...tate-coach-jerry-sandusky-touched-leg-in-car/

"The 24-year-old said he can’t recall any inappropriate behavior, though he says he started getting “uncomfortable” when Sandusky placed a hand above his knee while in a car."

So a hand on a knee gets $8 million. You don't have to even believe Sandusky was completely innocent to be completely outraged by that.
 
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As for "Aaron Fisher" - Jerry placed himself at risk. Sorry, but it's my opinion that had he practiced proper rules and just stuck to his Chairman/Fundraiser/Emcee role with the charity - and not gotten involved with a Second Mile minor that was OUTSIDE HIS ROLE with the charity, then "Aaron Fisher" never happens.

I coach my kid's 10-11 year old flag football team. Occasionally I will offer to give kids a ride to practice if needed, or offer to have a couple of kids over to go over some of our plays etc. Am I just opening myself up to trouble? Should I just stick to my coach role with the team, and not get involved at all outside of designated practice and game times?

I hope you see how ridiculous this sounds. Your hindsight bias is strong.
 
I coach my kid's 10-11 year old flag football team. Occasionally I will offer to give kids a ride to practice if needed, or offer to have a couple of kids over to go over some of our plays etc. Am I just opening myself up to trouble? Should I just stick to my coach role with the team, and not get involved at all outside of designated practice and game times?

I hope you see how ridiculous this sounds. Your hindsight bias is strong.
Do you lay in bed with them alone and blow on their stomachs and admit to it? Now you realize how awful your post really looks?
 
I admit the medical records thing still baffles me. I admit its hard to believe the defense didn’t bring that up. Is Amendola really that incompetent? On the other hand, I can’t possibly see the records being faked. I agree Ziegler’s an ass. He got pissed at me because I questioned his theory that Jerry was asexual even though I see eye to eye with him on almost everything. However, Ziegler has never gave me any reason to doubt his honesty on this issue. He is actually very careful about sharing evidence that favors Sandusky until it proves to be legit.

I thought Zig explained the medical records issue fairly well.

but (again, for the low IQ posters who accuse me of being "free Jerry") this issue cannot be isolated outside the shenanigans of the OAG.

they fought discovery tooth and nail. When Amendola finally prevailed, they dumped THOUSANDS of documents in his office, and the judge refused to give the defense any continuances to process the information.

We can parse Sandusky's tactics, guilt or innocence, all day and that's a fair argument.

What we cannot do it separate that discussion from the overwhelmingly shady and deceptive prosecution that essentially proceeded without control or punishment.
 
Do you lay in bed with them alone and blow on their stomachs and admit to it? Now you realize how awful your post really looks?

She was saying that Raykowitz should have taken action against Jerry for having "out of program" contact with kids. I'm just pointing out that the notion is kind of ridiculous when taking hindsight bias out of the picture. That "out of program" contact was undoubtedly looked upon as being a positive all around.
 
She was saying that Raykowitz should have taken action against Jerry for having "out of program" contact with kids. I'm just pointing out that the notion is kind of ridiculous when taking hindsight bias out of the picture.
Somewhat agree, but when your whole purpose is to help children you also have to ensure that you protect the children and set clear boundaries. Then again Jerry set this thing up and groomed the piss out of everyone so he was given a LONG leash.
 
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She was saying that Raykowitz should have taken action against Jerry for having "out of program" contact with kids. I'm just pointing out that the notion is kind of ridiculous when taking hindsight bias out of the picture. That "out of program" contact was undoubtedly looked upon as being a positive all around.

I agree with Wendy that Raykovitz did not follow proper state protocol. for out of program contact and the 2001 report from Curley, protocols were not followed. Regardless of how we feel about Sandusky's guilt or innocence.

As I pointed out to some blockhead sports writer, if you believe Sandusky is guilty, and the PSU admins are guilty, then you must believe Raykovitz is 1000 times more guilty than the admins.

If you believe Sandusky fooled everyone and Raykovitz is innocent, then you must believe the PSU admins are 1000 times more innocent.

The fact that Raykovitz was called as a PROSECUTION witness against Spanier is an egregious miscarriage of justice, but everyone seems to gloss over the fact that he did, in fact, testify that TSM was the proper authority in 2001 to which the PSU report should have gone.
 
She was saying that Raykowitz should have taken action against Jerry for having "out of program" contact with kids. I'm just pointing out that the notion is kind of ridiculous when taking hindsight bias out of the picture. That "out of program" contact was undoubtedly looked upon as being a positive all around.

Yes. Wendy and I have clashed over that before. When I was single, I served as a youth leader in my church. This was from 2004-2009 so it was after the Catholic Church Scandal. My pastor encouraged me to have "out-of-program contact" with the youth. I took them to Penn State and Pro Sports games. Teens often slept over my apartment. And the parents loved that I was able to invest in their lives and provide them a positive role model.
 
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Yes. Wendy and I have clashed over that before. When I was single, I served as a youth leader in my church. This was from 2004-2009 so it was after the Catholic Church Scandal. My pastor encouraged me to have "out-of-program contact" with the youth. I took them to Penn State and Pro Sports games. Teens often slept over my apartment. And the parents loved that I was able to invest in their lives and provide them a positive role model.

I'm trying to split the difference here, but I assume there were state protocols that guided that "out of program contact"?
 
<raises hand> I'll play. I was not aware Zig had this open request thing. And I'd be loathe to ask him anything after the way he treated me over the phone. That was pretty bad.

Anyway - Listened to the first podcast. Interesting the $7 Million this Neff guy got. I'd be curious if his lawyer will suffer any professional blowback on this, or decision makers at PSU that approved this, or is it just a matter that since Penn State rolled over and paid these unvetted claimants - it's just "oh well"? I have no idea how that works - and at this point, I don't give a rip how much Penn State has paid out. Eff Em.

My biggest question for Zig is why he doesn't address Jack Raykovitz's failure to implement a written safety plan after both the 1998 & 2001 reports. Jack knows full well that Jerry is accessing Second Mile kids in flagrant Out-Of-Program contact. Unless Jack was shitting us all in that Dauphin County courtroom last March, Jack pretty much admitted he knew Jerry was clearly acting outside his prescribed role with the charity, which places Jerry at massive risk.

This is a HUGE red flag - and Jack simply rolled it up and kicked it under his desk (or maybe the cocktail table over at the Autoport Lounge where Jack seemed to spend most of his time)

If CEO Jack and his charity VP/wife had practiced proper oversight - Aaron Fisher never happens. Which still begs the question - what the hell was Jack and Katherine doing?

I still can't get past the hurdle of an adult climbing into bed with a minor, disrobing & exposing yourself to a minor, kissing/cuddling a minor, personally communicating with a minor, babysitting a minor at their home, etc. These are all activities, especially when you add in the radioactive element of at-risk kids from dysfunctional families - just sets you up for MAJOR problems. A kids charity chairman, who can't grasp that......well, I just don't know what else to say.

If they were spending a lot of time at the Auto Port I have a pretty good idea.
Lots of stories about that place, some of them pretty "swinging". :D
 
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Yes. Wendy and I have clashed over that before. When I was single, I served as a youth leader in my church. This was from 2004-2009 so it was after the Catholic Church Scandal. My pastor encouraged me to have "out-of-program contact" with the youth. I took them to Penn State and Pro Sports games. Teens often slept over my apartment. And the parents loved that I was able to invest in their lives and provide them a positive role model.

Are you advocating that it is a good idea to have unsupervised one on one contact, including sleepovers, with non-relative minors? You can have the best intentions in the world but, you are putting yourself in an extremely risky situation. It would only take one child to make a claim, no matter how unsubstantiated, to ruin your life. The risk is exponentially greater when you are representing a multimillion dollar operation with deep pockets.
 
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I agree with Wendy that Raykovitz did not follow proper state protocol. for out of program contact and the 2001 report from Curley, protocols were not followed. Regardless of how we feel about Sandusky's guilt or innocence.

As I pointed out to some blockhead sports writer, if you believe Sandusky is guilty, and the PSU admins are guilty, then you must believe Raykovitz is 1000 times more guilty than the admins.

If you believe Sandusky fooled everyone and Raykovitz is innocent, then you must believe the PSU admins are 1000 times more innocent.

The fact that Raykovitz was called as a PROSECUTION witness against Spanier is an egregious miscarriage of justice, but everyone seems to gloss over the fact that he did, in fact, testify that TSM was the proper authority in 2001 to which the PSU report should have gone.

Bingo top to bottom, THT - Jack was required to put a plan in place once JS was indicated. That should have come in '01, but also likely in '98, since CYS and LE were involved. Hard to believe TSM wasn't informed of '98, but maybe not (I don't recall for sure from various testimonies/docs, and not much surprises us about all this anymore regardless).
 
She was saying that Raykowitz should have taken action against Jerry for having "out of program" contact with kids. I'm just pointing out that the notion is kind of ridiculous when taking hindsight bias out of the picture. That "out of program" contact was undoubtedly looked upon as being a positive all around.

Depends on what the laws, guidelines, and protocols were at the time for agencies such as TSM who fall under state authority (of some sort).

What guides their legal, mandated requirements could well have been (and still are) different from the unregulated programs, such as the youth sports coach or the Dad of one of a group of friends. Youth sports are beginning to get more focus in that area of awareness and prevention now. What once was commonly positive is now becoming more regulated in order to protect kids from the 1% or whatever small % of adults who take advantage of that alone time.

This also starts to touch on Pillar of the Community awareness, etc.
 
I coach my kid's 10-11 year old flag football team. Occasionally I will offer to give kids a ride to practice if needed, or offer to have a couple of kids over to go over some of our plays etc. Am I just opening myself up to trouble? Should I just stick to my coach role with the team, and not get involved at all outside of designated practice and game times?

I hope you see how ridiculous this sounds. Your hindsight bias is strong.

Completely different story if your son is in the car with you. Assuming you son is friends with these kids then it is to be expected that they would be at your house.
But, if you are choosing to be alone in a car with an unrelated child, you are definitely opening yourself up to accusations. It’s a potentially dangerous thing to do.
 
I thought Zig explained the medical records issue fairly well.

but (again, for the low IQ posters who accuse me of being "free Jerry") this issue cannot be isolated outside the shenanigans of the OAG.

they fought discovery tooth and nail. When Amendola finally prevailed, they dumped THOUSANDS of documents in his office, and the judge refused to give the defense any continuances to process the information.

We can parse Sandusky's tactics, guilt or innocence, all day and that's a fair argument.

What we cannot do it separate that discussion from the overwhelmingly shady and deceptive prosecution that essentially proceeded without control or punishment.

Most of the people who've I encountered who question the significance of the medical records do so based on the fact that Dottie Sandusky apparently told Mark Pendergrast in 2013 that her and Jerry had a normal sex life until about two years prior when Jerry began developing prostate problems. I proposed thay may occured a few years earlier as the spiked Newsweek article seems to indicate the prostate problems began in 2005 or 2006. Also, it seems weird Dottie would say about two years ago in 2013, rather than saying the year he was arrested. I think Dottie may have meant about two years before the first allegations, since Fisher came forward in late 2008. Ziegler basically called me a moron for even bringing this up. I have no idea why, other than of course burning bridges with his allies is just something John Ziegler does.

I still consider Aaron Fisher to be by far Sandusky's most credible accuser (other than V6 who never claimed a sexual act). While I find the interviews done with people who knew Aaron and his mother to be quite convincing (especially the one with Judy Fox), I understand that some people may not be convinced. I understand the potential rebuttals: Who are you to judge what Dawn does with Aaron's money? Maybe Aaron's macho, confiedent persona was him trying to compensate. Maybe Aaron was so disgusted by what Sandusky had him do he didn't notice that his testicles were so small. Etc. That's why I think its important for someone to determine exactly if Sandusky had any sexual function circa 2007-08 when Aaron Fisher claimed abuse.
 
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Completely different story if your son is in the car with you. Assuming you son is friends with these kids then it is to be expected that they would be at your house.
But, if you are choosing to be alone in a car with an unrelated child, you are definitely opening yourself up to accusations. It’s a potentially dangerous thing to do.

The concept of heterosexual man afraid being falsely accused of sexual abuse by teenage boys is relatively new concept. I doubt that fear existed ten years ago, let alone in 1998 or 2001.
 
The concept of heterosexual man afraid being falsely accused of sexual abuse by teenage boys is relatively new concept. I doubt that fear existed ten years ago, let alone in 1998 or 2001.

It absolutely existed if you worked in a position that involved contacting minors.
 
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It absolutely existed if you worked in a position that involved contacting minors.

As I stated, I volunteered as a youth leader at my church during my 20s from about 2004-2009. I always took great care to ensure I was never in a situation alone with teen girls and I made sure a female youth leader was also present even if I was in a mixed group. Boys not so much. But maybe I was just a "heteronormative" moron.
 
Bingo top to bottom, THT - Jack was required to put a plan in place once JS was indicated. That should have come in '01, but also likely in '98, since CYS and LE were involved. Hard to believe TSM wasn't informed of '98, but maybe not (I don't recall for sure from various testimonies/docs, and not much surprises us about all this anymore regardless).

Raykovitz has stated in deposition he wasn’t told about 1998. Harmon stated in his depo that neither he or any of his officers informed TSM about the investigation, and Laura admitted to Ganim he never told them.
 
As I stated, I volunteered as a youth leader at my church during my 20s from about 2004-2009. I always took great care to ensure I was never in a situation alone with teen girls and I made sure a female youth leader was also present even if I was in a mixed group. Boys not so much. But maybe I was just a "heteronormative" moron.

First off, good on you for the work you did. It’s commendable.
I have been working with kids for the last 20+ years and from the very beginning i have been taught to never be alone with a kid if it can be avoided. Same sex, opposite sex. No different. All it takes is one accusation and you are done.
 
I coach my kid's 10-11 year old flag football team. Occasionally I will offer to give kids a ride to practice if needed, or offer to have a couple of kids over to go over some of our plays etc. Am I just opening myself up to trouble? Should I just stick to my coach role with the team, and not get involved at all outside of designated practice and game times?

I hope you see how ridiculous this sounds. Your hindsight bias is strong.

Actually yes I think that you should carefully consider how you interact with these kids. An unfounded allegation can have serious negative consequences. Unfortunately in the world we live in with this kind of stuff I think that you are considered guilty until proven innocent.
 
I thought Zig explained the medical records issue fairly well.

but (again, for the low IQ posters who accuse me of being "free Jerry") this issue cannot be isolated outside the shenanigans of the OAG.

they fought discovery tooth and nail. When Amendola finally prevailed, they dumped THOUSANDS of documents in his office, and the judge refused to give the defense any continuances to process the information.

We can parse Sandusky's tactics, guilt or innocence, all day and that's a fair argument.

What we cannot do it separate that discussion from the overwhelmingly shady and deceptive prosecution that essentially proceeded without control or punishment.

I have a quick question for you Tenor. You seem to generally agree with Ziegler's conclusions, but do not believe Sandusky to be completely innocent. What crimes do you think were actually committed and what accusers do you believe were legit?
 
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Most of the people who've I encountered who question the significance of the medical records do so based on the fact that Dottie Sandusky apparently told Mark Pendergrast in 2013 that her and Jerry had a normal sex life until about two years prior when Jerry began developing prostate problems. I proposed thay may occured a few years earlier as the spiked Newsweek article seems to indicate the prostate problems began in 2005 or 2006. Also, it seems weird Dottie would say about two years ago in 2013, rather than saying the year he was arrested. I think Dottie may have meant about two years before the first allegations, since Fisher came forward in late 2008. Ziegler basically called me a moron for even bringing this up. I have no idea why, other than of course burning bridges with his allies is just something John Ziegler does.

I still consider Aaron Fisher to be by far Sandusky's most credible accuser (other than V6 who never claimed a sexual act). While I find the interviews done with people who knew Aaron and his mother to be quite convincing (especially the one with Judy Fox), I understand that some people may not be convinced. I understand the potential rebuttals: Who are you to judge what Dawn does with Aaron's money? Maybe Aaron's macho, confiedent persona was him trying to compensate. Maybe Aaron was so disgusted by what Sandusky had him do he didn't notice that his testicles were so small. Etc. That's why I think its important for someone to determine exactly if Sandusky had any sexual function circa 2007-08 when Aaron Fisher claimed abuse.
The issue with AF, for me, is as simple as a fairy tale my Mother read to me as a toddler,"The Boy who cried Wolf." I wonder how many teachers/administrators who knew this student, had doubts based on experience? If this time there really was a wolf.....it might be understandable why some were/are skeptical?
 
I have a quick question for you Tenor. You seem to generally agree with Ziegler's conclusions, but do not believe Sandusky to be completely innocent. What crimes do you think were actually committed and what accusers do you believe were legit?

At trial, I believed 3 victims, questioned the stories of 2 other, and totally dismissed 3 accusers.

It is hard to say what I believe now, except that the 3 victims I did believe whole heartedly now have a cloud of suspicion. I don't believe Sandusky was the monster he was made out to be.

I think he violated boundaries, possible grooming activity. I don't even know if that aroused him. It made him feel "something" outside normal, healthy relationships.

but I qualify my beliefs by saying . . . this is why he deserves a new trial. Because the OAG, the BoT, the media, and the governor so tainted the general public with so much BS, it is hard to discern what was true and what was not true at trial.
 
At trial, I believed 3 victims, questioned the stories of 2 other, and totally dismissed 3 accusers.

It is hard to say what I believe now, except that the 3 victims I did believe whole heartedly now have a cloud of suspicion. I don't believe Sandusky was the monster he was made out to be.

I think he violated boundaries, possible grooming activity. I don't even know if that aroused him. It made him feel "something" outside normal, healthy relationships.

but I qualify my beliefs by saying . . . this is why he deserves a new trial. Because the OAG, the BoT, the media, and the governor so tainted the general public with so much BS, it is hard to discern what was true and what was not true at trial.

Thanks dude. I first really looked into Ziegler's work when I was looking for rebuttal articles when the ridiculous 1970s accuser's stories became big news. I had written him off as a kook for the past couple years prior to that (because the Paterno family did not support him), but figured I'd give him a shot after that).

For a few months, I tried to buy in to the "celibate pedophile" theory he adhered to in 2013, but I now do find it tough to believe thatfor years he had to constantly be fighting a battle against these evil urges, but then refused to confess to the grooming/inappropriate touching after being arrested. Contrary to popular believe, I've noticed many "nice guy/pillar of the community offenders" receiving relatively light sentences after a plea bargain.

I sometimes wonder if that was the OAG's intent, throw every possible charge imaginable at Sandusky with the hope he would be more open to plea. I doubt they even believed they could get a conviction from Victim 9's sex dungeon story, or the non-existent Victim 8.
 
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Thanks dude. I first really looked into Ziegler's work when I was looking for rebuttal articles when the ridiculous 1970s accuser's stories became big news. I had written him off as a kook for the past couple years prior to that (because the Paterno family did not support him), but figured I'd give him a shot after that).

For a few months, I tried to buy in to the "celibate pedophile" theory he adhered to in 2013, but I now do find it tough to believe thatfor years he had to constantly be fighting a battle against these evil urges, but then refused to confess to the grooming/inappropriate touching after being arrested. Contrary to popular believe, I've noticed many "nice guy/pillar of the community offenders" receiving relatively light sentences after a plea bargain.

I sometimes wonder if that was the OAG's intent, throw every possible charge imaginable at Sandusky with the hope he would be more open to plea. I doubt they even believed they could get a conviction from Victim 9's sex dungeon story, or the non-existent Victim 8.

well there are a lot of elements of the Sandusky scandal that seem counter to the norms of a POC offender. Even decent people can question why that is.

I appreciate the work Zig does, even if he can be abusive and abrasive. I appreciate the work Clemente does, even if I think he is specifically wrong about several elements of this case. I appreciate the work Ray Blehar has done, even if I don't agree with all his conclusions.
 
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