OT - Another fraternity gone at PSU

[BlueBand]

Looks like this fraternity didn't have a large presence, but as a result of this case the fraternity has been banned in the entire state of PA and the PSU chapter will have to close.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/4-men-frat-face-sentencing-baruch-college-hazing-050516661.html

 

[novaclassof90]

Good to see, that incident in the Poconos with the young student from Baruch was horrible.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

I found the judge's ruling kind of odd. Pi Delta Psi is a cultural frat of Asian Americans. The Pi Delta Psi chapter in question was a chapter from a New York university. Most cultural frats do not have houses. This chapter staged this event in the Poconos. Since the death took place in PA, the trial was held in PA.

I fail to see why this cultural frat should be banned at PA universities for 10 years due to the actions of a New York chapter. The members of the PSU chapter of Pi Delta Psi had nothing to do with the incident that took place in the Poconos.

 

[LionDeNittany]

I found the judge's ruling kind of odd. Pi Delta Psi is a cultural frat of Asian Americans. The Pi Delta Psi chapter in question was a chapter from a New York university. Most cultural frats do not have houses. This chapter staged this event in the Poconos. Since the death took place in PA, the trial was held in PA.

I fail to see why this cultural frat should be banned at PA universities for 10 years due to the actions of a New York chapter. The members of the PSU chapter of Pi Delta Psi had nothing to do with the incident that took place in the Poconos.

I agree. But we live in an age of outrage. Who can we be outraged at if not Fraternities.

As the poster above so eloquently put it... a tragedy involving a young man. Outrage at the Fraternity system in PA.

LdN

 

[jerseylion109]

yeah the PA ban makes little sense...but hey fraternities are evil!!

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

Sounds like a wonderful opportunity to fan the flames of faux rage and score brownie points for prosecutors/judges. Never let a crisis go to waste.

 

[Pardlion]

Looks like this fraternity didn't have a large presence, but as a result of this case the fraternity has been banned in the entire state of PA and the PSU chapter will have to close.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/4-men-frat-face-sentencing-baruch-college-hazing-050516661.html

Wow, that's weird. It's like being banished from the kingdom.

 

[BlueBand]

I found the judge's ruling kind of odd. Pi Delta Psi is a cultural frat of Asian Americans. The Pi Delta Psi chapter in question was a chapter from a New York university. Most cultural frats do not have houses. This chapter staged this event in the Poconos. Since the death took place in PA, the trial was held in PA.

I fail to see why this cultural frat should be banned at PA universities for 10 years due to the actions of a New York chapter. The members of the PSU chapter of Pi Delta Psi had nothing to do with the incident that took place in the Poconos.

I agree. But I'm assuming the judge wanted to send a message to the national fraternity, and he only has jurisdiction over PA.

 

[BobPSU92]

I found the judge's ruling kind of odd. Pi Delta Psi is a cultural frat of Asian Americans. The Pi Delta Psi chapter in question was a chapter from a New York university. Most cultural frats do not have houses. This chapter staged this event in the Poconos. Since the death took place in PA, the trial was held in PA.

I fail to see why this cultural frat should be banned at PA universities for 10 years due to the actions of a New York chapter. The members of the PSU chapter of Pi Delta Psi had nothing to do with the incident that took place in the Poconos.

Yeah, that’s horseshit.

 

[NittPicker]

I found the judge's ruling kind of odd. Pi Delta Psi is a cultural frat of Asian Americans. The Pi Delta Psi chapter in question was a chapter from a New York university. Most cultural frats do not have houses. This chapter staged this event in the Poconos. Since the death took place in PA, the trial was held in PA.

I fail to see why this cultural frat should be banned at PA universities for 10 years due to the actions of a New York chapter. The members of the PSU chapter of Pi Delta Psi had nothing to do with the incident that took place in the Poconos.

I have no legal training whatsoever therefore I hope someone more knowledgeable can answer a question for me. Does the judge even have the authority to issue a statewide ban for Pi Delta Psi, especially given the facts Tom points out?

 

[TheBigUglies]

News flash. Banned frats still exist they just go underground.

 

[LafayetteBear]

I found the judge's ruling kind of odd. Pi Delta Psi is a cultural frat of Asian Americans. The Pi Delta Psi chapter in question was a chapter from a New York university. Most cultural frats do not have houses. This chapter staged this event in the Poconos. Since the death took place in PA, the trial was held in PA.

I fail to see why this cultural frat should be banned at PA universities for 10 years due to the actions of a New York chapter. The members of the PSU chapter of Pi Delta Psi had nothing to do with the incident that took place in the Poconos.

This was my reaction as well, Tom. I sure would like to know what particular conduct their National Fraternity (as opposed to the local chapter) engaged in that would justify banning it from having chapters on any other campus in the Commonwealth. In cases like this one, the most common fact pattern has the national fraternity being completely unaware of the incident until after the fact, and its liability being premised on a "vicarious liability" basis (e.g., negligent failure to sufficiently train, supervise or discipline the chapter and/or its members). That is a far cry from intentional misconduct.

If I was a member of a Pennsylvania chapter of this fraternity that is now forced to close because of what these undergraduates from a New York chapter did while in Pennsylvania, I would be feeling distinctly unhappy about the situation. I never did like collective punishment.

 

[ejb25]

"Pi Delta Psi's attorney, Wes Niemoczynski, argued that Pi Delta Psi had developed a "no excuses" hazing policy before Deng's death but said the policy worked on the "honor system" and proved to be inadequate."

I think the State of Pennsylvania is trying to send a message that a National Organization should not just rely on honor system, but should have some accountability. I see it as punishing the National Organization within the jurisdiction of the State of Pennsylvania. In our recent history the NCAA overstepped their authority, but in this case the State of Pennsylvania did not.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

This was my reaction as well, Tom. I sure would like to know what particular conduct their National Fraternity (as opposed to the local chapter) engaged in that would justify banning it from having chapters on any other campus in the Commonwealth. In cases like this one, the most common fact pattern has the national fraternity being completely unaware of the incident until after the fact, and its liability being premised on a "vicarious liability" basis (e.g., negligent failure to sufficiently train, supervise or discipline the chapter and/or its members). That is a far cry from intentional misconduct.

If I was a member of a Pennsylvania chapter of this fraternity that is now forced to close because of what these undergraduates from a New York chapter did while in Pennsylvania, I would be feeling distinctly unhappy about the situation. I never did like collective punishment.

The judge fined the national $110,000 for its role in the pledge's death. "The Judge and a prosecutor slammed Pi Delta Psi for calling itself a victim of rogue fraternity members, saying the fraternity tolerated and even encouraged hazing for years."

The case was brought by Monroe County's DA office.

The judge also stated at the sentencing for the 4 defendants that:

"Not one person out of 37 picked up a telephone and called an ambulance. I cannot wrap my head around it. So there’s something greater going on here, and I think it’s probably really prevalent. We see across the country these issues in fraternities."

Sadly, the judge seems to have lumped in cultural frats with social frats, and made a rather sweeping statement about all of them, without exhibiting much knowledge about their differences.

 

[LafayetteBear]

The judge fined the national $110,000 for its role in the pledge's death. "The Judge and a prosecutor slammed Pi Delta Psi for calling itself a victim of rogue fraternity members, saying the fraternity tolerated and even encouraged hazing for years."

The case was brought by Monroe County's DA office.

The judge also stated at the sentencing for the 4 defendants that:

"Not one person out of 37 picked up a telephone and called an ambulance. I cannot wrap my head around it. So there’s something greater going on here, and I think it’s probably really prevalent. We see across the country these issues in fraternities."

Sadly, the judge seems to have lumped in cultural frats with social frats, and made a rather sweeping statement about all of them, without exhibiting much knowledge about their differences.

When a tragedy like this happens, the plight of the deceased undergraduate's poor family frequently obscures some things. Like the notion that punishment (particularly criminal punishment) should be reserved for those directly responsible for the undergraduate's death.

Another thing that gets obscured is the difference between the local fraternity chapter and its members, and the national fraternity. I see the report quoting the judge and/or prosecutor as concluding that the national fraternity "tolerated and even encouraged hazing for years." That is a conclusion. I'm wondering what evidence was introduced to support it.

 

[massimoManca II]

Looks like this fraternity didn't have a large presence, but as a result of this case the fraternity has been banned in the entire state of PA and the PSU chapter will have to close.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/4-men-frat-face-sentencing-baruch-college-hazing-050516661.html

In all fairness, this really wasn't much of a fraternity at Penn State...

 

[PearlSUJam]

Is it a coincidence that they mentioned that the deceased was a frat member in this article?

 

[PearlSUJam]

 

[wbcincy]

I found the judge's ruling kind of odd. Pi Delta Psi is a cultural frat of Asian Americans. The Pi Delta Psi chapter in question was a chapter from a New York university. Most cultural frats do not have houses. This chapter staged this event in the Poconos. Since the death took place in PA, the trial was held in PA.

I fail to see why this cultural frat should be banned at PA universities for 10 years due to the actions of a New York chapter. The members of the PSU chapter of Pi Delta Psi had nothing to do with the incident that took place in the Poconos.

We Penn Staters should be well accustomed to guilt by association by now.

 

[Nitt1300]

I'm not convinced that the PA court system is any less corrupt than the legislature

 

[Raffycorn]

Is it a coincidence that they mentioned that the deceased was a frat member in this article?

View embedded media

I suspect that they would have mentioned if the deceased was a member of a THON org like Atlas, or if he was a student athlete, or if he was in student government, too. Not everything is some kind of anti-frat conspiracy.

 

[LafayetteBear]

View embedded media

Anyone heard anything new on this latest tragedy? Googled his name and don't see anything new.

 

[manatree]

The judge fined the national $110,000 for its role in the pledge's death. "The Judge and a prosecutor slammed Pi Delta Psi for calling itself a victim of rogue fraternity members, saying the fraternity tolerated and even encouraged hazing for years."

Sadly, the judge seems to have lumped in cultural frats with social frats, and made a rather sweeping statement about all of them, without exhibiting much knowledge about their differences.

If I remember correctly, it came to light during the trial that the local chapter members called their national officers and the national folks told them to clean up, hide evidence, etc. in order to make it appear that it was not a fraternity related event.

Also, I don't see how knowledge of the differences between cultural and social fraternities would have made much of a difference to the judge and prosecutors. Is this hazing death any less criminal because it involved a cultural fraternity?

 

[LafayetteBear]

If I remember correctly, it came to light during the trial that the local chapter members called their national officers and the national folks told them to clean up, hide evidence, etc. in order to make it appear that it was not a fraternity related event.

Also, I don't see how knowledge of the differences between cultural and social fraternities would have made much of a difference to the judge and prosecutors. Is this hazing death any less criminal because it involved a cultural fraternity?

If their national fraternity in fact told them to "hide evidence," then their national deserves every punishment that has been meted out. I find that hard to credit, because that would be beyond stupid.

 

[joeparules]

I found the judge's ruling kind of odd. Pi Delta Psi is a cultural frat of Asian Americans. The Pi Delta Psi chapter in question was a chapter from a New York university. Most cultural frats do not have houses. This chapter staged this event in the Poconos. Since the death took place in PA, the trial was held in PA.

I fail to see why this cultural frat should be banned at PA universities for 10 years due to the actions of a New York chapter. The members of the PSU chapter of Pi Delta Psi had nothing to do with the incident that took place in the Poconos.

Agree with Bob that this ruling is complete horseshit. A "rogue" group of fraternity brothers from a different state ignore fraternity policies and all of the members in the state they were visiting are told to disband?! I'm not trying to make light of this tragedy, but ONCE AGAIN why don't we keep the punishment to the guilty individual(s)? Guess that no longer works in the effing PC society we are now forced to live in where everyone remotely associated must also pay.

 

[ejb25]

"Prosecutors said the students delayed in seeking medical aid for Mr. Deng, and instead tried to resuscitate him themselves and called fraternity leaders who told them to hide anything bearing the fraternity’s name or symbol."

It sounds like their national leaders panicked by having them try to hide it was a fraternity event.

Rather than save this kid's life, they wanted to remove any Fraternity symbols or associations.

If I remember correctly, it came to light during the trial that the local chapter members called their national officers and the national folks told them to clean up, hide evidence, etc. in order to make it appear that it was not a fraternity related event.

Also, I don't see how knowledge of the differences between cultural and social fraternities would have made much of a difference to the judge and prosecutors. Is this hazing death any less criminal because it involved a cultural fraternity?

If their national fraternity in fact told them to "hide evidence," then their national deserves every punishment that has been meted out. I find that hard to credit, because that would be beyond stupid.