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Only one 4* starter on defense right now

grinagrin

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2001
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Manny Bowen.

Patience people. Coach is recruiting very well and talent is coming up the pipelines.


Btw, seems like Khaleke Hudson is gunna be a huge miss. Had a great game against us and his line this past weekend was something like 13 tackles, 6.5 tfl, 2 sacks, and a forced fumble. Wow!
 
I said before the Michigan game that Hudon and Garry were the two that really got away... but Gary wasn’t ever really coming here. Hudson, on the other hand could have been a Nittany lion.
 
Manny Bowen.

Patience people. Coach is recruiting very well and talent is coming up the pipelines.


Btw, seems like Khaleke Hudson is gunna be a huge miss. Had a great game against us and his line this past weekend was something like 13 tackles, 6.5 tfl, 2 sacks, and a forced fumble. Wow!

Would kill to have all three star recruits play and contribute like Marcus Allen.
 
Would kill to have all three star recruits play and contribute like Marcus Allen.
So weird. Not that it matters, but I always thought Marcus Allen had a 4* rating. Rivals and 247 have him listed at 3 and what remains of TOS shows him at 4 on one page, but Then comes up as 3* when it links back to player profile at 247. So who knows.

Anyway, I thought Marcus Allen had 4, from somebody. I’d check ESPN but I don’t want to go there. Stars aren’t a problem going forward and they’re really getting a lot out of this year’s and last year’s upper class given how few top recruits they got-especially on D.
 
Manny Bowen.

Patience people. Coach is recruiting very well and talent is coming up the pipelines.


Btw, seems like Khaleke Hudson is gunna be a huge miss. Had a great game against us and his line this past weekend was something like 13 tackles, 6.5 tfl, 2 sacks, and a forced fumble. Wow!
IIRC, Farmer was a 4*...
 
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Our current starting defense is as follows, per 247 composite:

DE: Shareef Miller, 3 stars, .8681 (2015)
DT: Curtis Cothran, 3 stars, .8465 (2013)
DT: Parker Cothren, 3 stars, .8307 (2013)
DE: Kevin Givens, 3 stars, .8498 (2015),
LB: Manny Bowen, 4 stars, .9029 (2015)
LB: Jason Cabinda, 3 stars, .8477 (2014)
LB: Koa Farmer, 3 stars, .8807 (2014)
CB: Grant Haley, 3 stars, .8578 (2014)
CB: Christian Campbell, 3 stars, .8354 (2014)
S: Troy Apke, 3 stars, .8681 (2014)
S: Marcus Allen, 3 stars, .8877 (2014)

At one point, we had the following guys penciled in as starters who are now out with injury:

Torrence Brown, 3 stars, .8178 (2014)
John Reid, 4 stars, .9416 (2015)
Ryan Buchholz, 4 stars, .9056 (2015)

The long and short of it is that our starting defense as currently constructed is filled with a bunch of solid three-star guys, many of whom are upperclassmen and have been playing since they were underclassmen. All of them are arguably playing at a level exceeding their composite rating. That's a credit to our staff and their ability to scout and develop talent.

The issue remains - as it has for a few years now - that we have very few upperclassmen who are blue chip talents. And it hurts a lot more when the inevitable injuries that occur happen to occur to some of the precious few blue chip guys on the depth chart (Reid and Buchholz) or an upperclassmen who has developed (Brown). Replacing a .9056 Buchholz with an .8498 Givens hurts, and replacing .9416 Reid with .8354 Campbell hurts. That's no disrespect to Givens or Campbell who are both outplaying their ranking, but the top programs in the nation are replacing a .9500 player with another .9500 player. We're getting there, but we're obviously not there yet.
 
Think people underestimated the loss of Buchholz last two games, to me the best all around DL we have and his loss along with Brown really shortens the rotation along the entire DL.
 
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That is a really solid post, Raffy. Made a great point and supported it with plenty of facts.

And, yes, the future is bright; thought this might be a magical year, and we won't see the likes of #26 anytime soon again, but there were some thin spots on this team.
 
It’s rather sad, but telling, when posters not only believe “star ratings”, but waste the effort of trying to dissect and reassemble them into something meaningful 2-3 year’s after they (subjective stars) were assigned.

Cough...cough .0001 Raffycorn
 
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It’s rather sad, but telling, when posters not only believe “star ratings”, but waste the effort of trying to dissect and reassemble them into something meaningful 2-3 year’s after they (subjective stars) were assigned.

Cough...cough .0001 Raffycorn
Good to see you, Peetz! Do you believe Ohio State's defensive front was better than ours? If so, why do you think that was the case?

The fact is this: the better talent you have up and down your roster, the more margin for error you have when your program goal is winning double-digit games per year. Stars matter. It's been proven time and time again. We had the #15 class last year, and we have the #4 class in the country in 2018. Let's embrace it, because that is the #1 thing that will give us the best shot to win championships.
 
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So weird. Not that it matters, but I always thought Marcus Allen had a 4* rating. Rivals and 247 have him listed at 3 and what remains of TOS shows him at 4 on one page, but Then comes up as 3* when it links back to player profile at 247. So who knows.

Anyway, I thought Marcus Allen had 4, from somebody. I’d check ESPN but I don’t want to go there. Stars aren’t a problem going forward and they’re really getting a lot out of this year’s and last year’s upper class given how few top recruits they got-especially on D.

i think you are correct re Allen. also Reid was a 4* and Garret Taylor was a 4* - although he doesnt play. Bowen was a 4*. Simmons and YGM were 4*
 
Good to see you, Peetz! Do you believe Ohio State's defensive front was better than ours? If so, why do you think that was the case?

The fact is this: the better talent you have up and down your roster, the more margin for error you have when your program goal is winning double-digit games per year. Stars matter. It's been proven time and time again. We had the #15 class last year, and we have the #4 class in the country in 2018. Let's embrace it, because that is the #1 thing that will give us the best shot to win championships.
Recruiting AND good coaching (in game coaching, player development, etc.) AND keeping the players from screwing up (academically, socially, etc.). So basically, it’s everything.

Stars matter for sure. Can’t disagree there, although FSU fans may suggest they’re not enough.
 
Manny Bowen.

Patience people. Coach is recruiting very well and talent is coming up the pipelines.


Btw, seems like Khaleke Hudson is gunna be a huge miss. Had a great game against us and his line this past weekend was something like 13 tackles, 6.5 tfl, 2 sacks, and a forced fumble. Wow!

(Tic) Didn't realize MSU was 4 star U. Probably on both sides of the ball too.
 
Our current starting defense is as follows, per 247 composite:

DE: Shareef Miller, 3 stars, .8681 (2015)
DT: Curtis Cothran, 3 stars, .8465 (2013)
DT: Parker Cothren, 3 stars, .8307 (2013)
DE: Kevin Givens, 3 stars, .8498 (2015),
LB: Manny Bowen, 4 stars, .9029 (2015)
LB: Jason Cabinda, 3 stars, .8477 (2014)
LB: Koa Farmer, 3 stars, .8807 (2014)
CB: Grant Haley, 3 stars, .8578 (2014)
CB: Christian Campbell, 3 stars, .8354 (2014)
S: Troy Apke, 3 stars, .8681 (2014)
S: Marcus Allen, 3 stars, .8877 (2014)

At one point, we had the following guys penciled in as starters who are now out with injury:

Torrence Brown, 3 stars, .8178 (2014)
John Reid, 4 stars, .9416 (2015)
Ryan Buchholz, 4 stars, .9056 (2015)

The long and short of it is that our starting defense as currently constructed is filled with a bunch of solid three-star guys, many of whom are upperclassmen and have been playing since they were underclassmen. All of them are arguably playing at a level exceeding their composite rating. That's a credit to our staff and their ability to scout and develop talent.

The issue remains - as it has for a few years now - that we have very few upperclassmen who are blue chip talents. And it hurts a lot more when the inevitable injuries that occur happen to occur to some of the precious few blue chip guys on the depth chart (Reid and Buchholz) or an upperclassmen who has developed (Brown). Replacing a .9056 Buchholz with an .8498 Givens hurts, and replacing .9416 Reid with .8354 Campbell hurts. That's no disrespect to Givens or Campbell who are both outplaying their ranking, but the top programs in the nation are replacing a .9500 player with another .9500 player. We're getting there, but we're obviously not there yet.


Good post. and i think a few of those guys only became 3 stars after the PSU offer.
 
Pretty sure Iowa's and Wisconsin's rosters aren't exactly filled with 4&5 star recruits.
 
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