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National Emergency declared in Texas

I'm really interested in the exact equipment that failed. Supplier and part number. I design Smart Grid equipment (IEEE-1613) for a living. The standard requires -40C (-40F) cold start and -40C sustained requirements for all equipment. 5F or -20F should never be an issue by itself. On the other end, it also must operate at 85C (185F) for a minimum of 16 hours without any errors (we design and test for >96 hours). Our equipment is incrementally more expensive than many of our competitors (+15%), and we lose deals on cost. A few of our competitors only operate 0 to 70C, and are less expensive for certain.

The outdoor equipment is also tested to ice buildup in the NEMA/IP standards and testing. The water goes through multiple freeze/thaw cycles to verify and validate all seals (and thus water ingress capability)

This is why I'm very interested in what specifically failed. We'll never get the information, as that will put a few bureaucrats and purchasing agents at severe risk. These people are very good at covering their tracks and diverting blame. We'll see
Crazy test board talk!

There will be lots of studying into find out what went wrong . @Obliviax posted on the test board that many of the nat gas pumping stations used electricity from wind turbines to power them. Didn’t post a link.But when the turbines shut down that shut down many nat gas pipelines.

And the problem with the turbines doesn’t appear to be the cold but the heavy icing. I hear turbines in northern areas, especially off shore, have heated blades to shed ice but not this far south.
 
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It might be interesting to see those on the same scale. Is that available?
 
I like gas. It works and keeps working, period. My TX friends are running their gas ovens and stoves to stay warm. Many have gas fireplaces, which work well if you have the right setup and fan. A gas generator is cool too.

Looks like rolling gas outages are on their way.
 
I'm really interested in the exact equipment that failed. Supplier and part number. I design Smart Grid equipment (IEEE-1613) for a living. The standard requires -40C (-40F) cold start and -40C sustained requirements for all equipment. 5F or -20F should never be an issue by itself. On the other end, it also must operate at 85C (185F) for a minimum of 16 hours without any errors (we design and test for >96 hours). Our equipment is incrementally more expensive than many of our competitors (+15%), and we lose deals on cost. A few of our competitors only operate 0 to 70C, and are less expensive for certain.

The outdoor equipment is also tested to ice buildup in the NEMA/IP standards and testing. The water goes through multiple freeze/thaw cycles to verify and validate all seals (and thus water ingress capability)

This is why I'm very interested in what specifically failed. We'll never get the information, as that will put a few bureaucrats and purchasing agents at severe risk. These people are very good at covering their tracks and diverting blame. We'll see
Apparently ERCOT did their winterization equipment checks remotely this year due to COVID. I don't know enough about this stuff to know if that can be effective, but some are speculating it was part of the issue.

Austin has been placed under a city wide boil water notice as of last night. In spots it's been turned off. People are laughing at this point. They have no electricity to boil the water that's been shut off so they need to get to a store on roads that are nearly impassable due to ice buildup only to find out that stores are either closed or sold out of water. What a disaster, it's one for the Texas weather history books.
 
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I'm really interested in the exact equipment that failed. Supplier and part number. I design Smart Grid equipment (IEEE-1613) for a living. The standard requires -40C (-40F) cold start and -40C sustained requirements for all equipment. 5F or -20F should never be an issue by itself. On the other end, it also must operate at 85C (185F) for a minimum of 16 hours without any errors (we design and test for >96 hours). Our equipment is incrementally more expensive than many of our competitors (+15%), and we lose deals on cost. A few of our competitors only operate 0 to 70C, and are less expensive for certain.

The outdoor equipment is also tested to ice buildup in the NEMA/IP standards and testing. The water goes through multiple freeze/thaw cycles to verify and validate all seals (and thus water ingress capability)

This is why I'm very interested in what specifically failed. We'll never get the information, as that will put a few bureaucrats and purchasing agents at severe risk. These people are very good at covering their tracks and diverting blame. We'll see
I am interested as well but you area way beyond me in the understanding of those systems.!
 
Just lost power. Luck ran out. See you on the other side.
CMT, all OK? Haven't seen you post since you power outage. Looks like Austin proper had some snow this morning. We missed it. But driving is ridiculous now. Just enough melt yesterday, that the tire ruts are solid ice.
 
I'm really interested in the exact equipment that failed. Supplier and part number. I design Smart Grid equipment (IEEE-1613) for a living. The standard requires -40C (-40F) cold start and -40C sustained requirements for all equipment. 5F or -20F should never be an issue by itself. On the other end, it also must operate at 85C (185F) for a minimum of 16 hours without any errors (we design and test for >96 hours). Our equipment is incrementally more expensive than many of our competitors (+15%), and we lose deals on cost. A few of our competitors only operate 0 to 70C, and are less expensive for certain.

The outdoor equipment is also tested to ice buildup in the NEMA/IP standards and testing. The water goes through multiple freeze/thaw cycles to verify and validate all seals (and thus water ingress capability)

This is why I'm very interested in what specifically failed. We'll never get the information, as that will put a few bureaucrats and purchasing agents at severe risk. These people are very good at covering their tracks and diverting blame. We'll see
Are you saying your competitors only test, design, and honor their equipment to freezing? 0C = 32F. If so that is paltry.
 
CMT, all OK? Haven't seen you post since you power outage. Looks like Austin proper had some snow this morning. We missed it. But driving is ridiculous now. Just enough melt yesterday, that the tire ruts are solid ice.
I got power back a few hours ago so I walked out to a relatively busy road to see if I could travel back home. I've been staying with friends since my home hasn't had power for 4 days. I saw the same, tire tracks were a sheet of solid ice. I'm hopeful that with more traffic it gets better and I can get home before sunset. Otherwise I'm iced in until tomorrow when the sun comes back.
 
Have a cousin north of Austin in hill district. Only received one text on Mon and one yesterday. All she said was power has been off nine times. That’s all I know about her or her daughter that lives a little more north.

Old college roommate, Humble NE suburb of Houston, had to move in with daughter. She has power only because her grid is the same as the water system. No idea how his home is.
 
yep...there are two main issues. The first is that it was state wide, meaning, the entire state. With such a large state that is pretty unreal. Even when the Hurricanes hit, other parts of TX were able to pick up the energy needs for that area. Secondly, the amount of weather impact. It looks like this was 10 Degrees, or more, colder than what anyone in TX has experienced in their lifetimes. That is amazing. So I've experienced 17 below. What if it hit 27 below and sustained for several days? At the same time, many homes in TX are single pane windows, aren't insulated, are on a slab, only have a single source of heat (often, electric), often heat with a heat pump (which won't work in that cold of weather even if it had electricity), etc.

I am hearing, now, that the fuel system to keep gas flowing was from the wind turbine so when the wind farms froze up, that resulted in the gas systems freezing up.

Crazy.
Here we are with more unfounded rumors from politically biased sources.
The facts are simple. WIND TURBINES AREN'T TO BLAME

Wind turbines are part of the solution (but they need to be weatherized). They are reliable in all climates (Manitoba, Germany, Sweden, etc.) and are actually the cheapest per KW*hr of any potential new electric power installation.
 
Here we are with more unfounded rumors from politically biased sources.
The facts are simple. WIND TURBINES AREN'T TO BLAME

Wind turbines are part of the solution (but they need to be weatherized). They are reliable in all climates (Manitoba, Germany, Sweden, etc.) and are actually the cheapest per KW*hr of any potential new electric power installation.
you read my post incorrectly.

I was told, but haven't verified, that the planners heated the gas pumping facilities with power taken from the wind turbines. The idea is that they wouldn't be wholly dependent on either source for whatever may come. But the massive cold weather, both in terms of temperature and size of the front, killed the power from the Turbines first which caused them to not be able to heat the equipment for gas. The gas facilities then failed.
 
Here we are with more unfounded rumors from politically biased sources.
The facts are simple. WIND TURBINES AREN'T TO BLAME

Wind turbines are part of the solution (but they need to be weatherized). They are reliable in all climates (Manitoba, Germany, Sweden, etc.) and are actually the cheapest per KW*hr of any potential new electric power installation.

Shhhh be careful, he might put you on ignore because you disagree with him.
He knows people who have working gas ovens and know how to use them.
 
Crazy test board talk!

There will be lots of studying into find out what went wrong . @Obliviax posted on the test board that many of the nat gas pumping stations used electricity from wind turbines to power them. Didn’t post a link.But when the turbines shut down that shut down many nat gas pipelines.

And the problem with the turbines doesn’t appear to be the cold but the heavy icing. I hear turbines in northern areas, especially off shore, have heated blades to shed ice but not this far south.
just from a friend of mine in texas...unverified and why I posted it there and not here.
 
BTW, who remembers the great upper midwest power outage of 2003? I was without power for three full days.

Seriously? You think they had a dedicated wind turbine to power their gas pipeline? Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me, but I am probably the naive one.
 
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I work on Turbines here in PA. We have seen issues with instrumentation in similar conditions. Northern climates use better housings, insulation, heat tracing, sometimes even portable heaters directly on the instruments.
During severe weather the wind and ice find a way into the housings causing false readings. The program shuts the turbine down believing their is an issue, prior to causing a catastrophic failure.
Warmer climates don’t spend the extra $$$ to winterize. With hundreds of transmitters and miles of heat tracing and insulation they save millions.

Just so people realize a natural gas power plant can produce 1000-1500 Mw’s of power. A wind turbine produces 1.5Mw’s. It takes 4 acres of solar panels to produce 1 Mw.
 
Are you saying your competitors only test, design, and honor their equipment to freezing? 0C = 32F. If so that is paltry.
There are two options, usually, for ambient temp grades; -40C to 85C, and 0C to 70C. We only make the former as it is our belief that the 15% incremental cost to cover both ends of the spectrum, is worth it. I want to know what ERCOT installed, and I'm betting they picked the latter to save a little bit of $'s. But even so, I would expect them to pick the wide range, especially for the high temp perspective.
 
CMT, all OK? Haven't seen you post since you power outage. Looks like Austin proper had some snow this morning. We missed it. But driving is ridiculous now. Just enough melt yesterday, that the tire ruts are solid ice.
Oh, mine lasted for 10 min only - a Christmas Miracle! I posted on a few other threads. Like I said - I’ve been way lucky. Spent most of this morning getting a big water jug from work - only a few sketchy black ice patches on mopac south of town on flyovers and ramps, but generally only 1 clear lane - and checking on my and my ex-wife’s water heaters and such. Back to my “Shooter” marathon for the afternoon. Thx for asking

We’ll finally get significant melting tomorrow at least.
 
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I got power back a few hours ago so I walked out to a relatively busy road to see if I could travel back home. I've been staying with friends since my home hasn't had power for 4 days. I saw the same, tire tracks were a sheet of solid ice. I'm hopeful that with more traffic it gets better and I can get home before sunset. Otherwise I'm iced in until tomorrow when the sun comes back.
30 degrees now and the ice is melting from underneath. Been watching Toyota Corollas and Hondas zipping by, so I think I could make it if I had to. My ranch neighbors checked in on the animals today, so I don't have to make the 30 mile trip. They don;t have electricity there, after 3 days now. They have water (SW Milam County), but it is a boil request. As you said, hard to do without electricity. I did have 3 cases of water in my barn that I told the neighbor to take, as well as a few large round bales of hay (he told me he is rationing until the spring crop comes in - and I have 50 extra bales). So it all even ups nicely. It is calf and kid season now. He had two baby goats die when it hit 3F out there, and is bottle feeding another (mother didn't take to it with the cold). Really a bad time to have the cold hit

Be safe down there PSUSignore. Hope everything works out, and LMK if you need anything
 
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I work on Turbines here in PA. We have seen issues with instrumentation in similar conditions. Northern climates use better housings, insulation, heat tracing, sometimes even portable heaters directly on the instruments.
During severe weather the wind and ice find a way into the housings causing false readings. The program shuts the turbine down believing their is an issue, prior to causing a catastrophic failure.
Warmer climates don’t spend the extra $$$ to winterize. With hundreds of transmitters and miles of heat tracing and insulation they save millions.

Just so people realize a natural gas power plant can produce 1000-1500 Mw’s of power. A wind turbine produces 1.5Mw’s. It takes 4 acres of solar panels to produce 1 Mw.
We use a lot of GE 2.5sthough I think their real rating is around 2.82. As you know, bigger ones in this current generation due to higher hub heights and, of course, offshore WTGs are much stronger
 
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I just listened to interview with this guy... he called this back in 2013.

 
For the next 12 months the first question a prospective home owner will ask a relator about a home...

"Is there a hospital nearby... and if so is this home on the same power grid?"

Every person I know in DFW area living close to a hospital did not lose power once.
Exactly - instead of how good the schools are. Another savior are these out of the way elder-care joints stuck in neighborhoods
 
I just listened to interview with this guy... he called this back in 2013.

This story doesn't provide much depth and it's totally mislabeled because in the Soviet Union, the rules would at least exist even if they weren't followed. In Texas the rules are the utility makes their own rules and the consumer pays the price. ERCOT is just a cartel of providers. They formed it to avoid being regulated by the guvmnt.
 
For the next 12 months the first question a prospective home owner will ask a relator about a home...

"Is there a hospital nearby... and if so is this home on the same power grid?"

Every person I know in DFW area living close to a hospital did not lose power once.
Agreed. We might even see this proactively in the listings in the short term future. I was fortunate to have a friend that didn't lose power only a few miles away without a lot of hilly roads in between so it was much easier for me to find a warm place to stay than it was for many others.
 
Seriously? You think they had a dedicated wind turbine to power their gas pipeline? Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me, but I am probably the naive one.
No one said anything about dedicated windmills. Or should that be deadicated?
Pipelines, wells, compressor stations are very widespread. I am sure many are in areas where the main electrical source are wind turbines. They shut down.....the whole system shuts down.
 
BTW, who remembers the great upper midwest power outage of 2003? I was without power for three full days.

We we not impacted by that particular outage but just prior to Christmas that year, I think, or the next, an ice storm hit that put us out of power for 8 days. That was nasty and revealing. Our 20 mile stretch of line, twice the approved lenght, was also the LAST priority of the entire system. We were served by a rural electric coop and the outage had many treees downing lines. On the eight day, when their PR lady announced that all power had been restored, funny, ours wasn't restored, to call in if someone saw a limb hanging on a line. I called them to explain my power hadn't bee restored, emphatically, got put on the "irate customer line" - a new distinction and got to speak directly to the CEO. We had a nice discussion, I explained my frustration and within an hour the power came on. That was a difficult week, food placed outside on deck as it was below 15 degrees all week, fireplace running all week long, our only heat, etc. Power outages prove our reliance on electricity and the expectation of a constant supply.
 
No one said anything about dedicated windmills. Or should that be deadicated?
Pipelines, wells, compressor stations are very widespread. I am sure many are in areas where the main electrical source are wind turbines. They shut down.....the whole system shuts down.
Just not so. The grid is only dependent on a small fraction of its power from windmills (average of 7% in the winter with the stated ability to cover all of it with coal and gas) and their stated plan is to rely more heavily on gas and coal in the winter. None of the real issues are caused by the lack of wind power. The blaming of "green energy" for this fiasco is just another diversionary political ploy initiated by Abbot. It has been completely debunked. But lots of folks are doubling down.
 
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We we not impacted by that particular outage but just prior to Christmas that year, I think, or the next, an ice storm hit that put us out of power for 8 days. That was nasty and revealing. Our 20 mile stretch of line, twice the approved lenght, was also the LAST priority of the entire system. We were served by a rural electric coop and the outage had many treees downing lines. On the eight day, when their PR lady announced that all power had been restored, funny, ours wasn't restored, to call in if someone saw a limb hanging on a line. I called them to explain my power hadn't bee restored, emphatically, got put on the "irate customer line" - a new distinction and got to speak directly to the CEO. We had a nice discussion, I explained my frustration and within an hour the power came on. That was a difficult week, food placed outside on deck as it was below 15 degrees all week, fireplace running all week long, our only heat, etc. Power outages prove our reliance on electricity and the expectation of a constant supply.
ouch. we had two major outages. The first was the 2003 one I linked. The good news was it was during a pleasant time to no heating or AC wasn't a big problem. I recall people biking and walking and enjoying themselves. The other was in the hurricane that hit NJ/NY. What people don't know is that it moved west. Another front came from the west moving east. They both collided over Cleveland so we had sustained 80mph winds for a day. I watched a tree blow over in my front yard. The local power company sent all of their truck and repair people to NJ as you could see that coming. What happened in CLE was unforeseen, we were supposed to get 30 to 40 mph winds. But when we got 80, many power lines got knocked down and we had no repair trucks. They had people drive in from Oklahoma and Iowa to repair. I was down for five days. The first day I stayed home. The Second day I drove until I saw power and stayed at a hotel. The last four days I stayed at my in-laws house that is about 40 minutes away.
 
No one said anything about dedicated windmills. Or should that be deadicated?
Pipelines, wells, compressor stations are very widespread. I am sure many are in areas where the main electrical source are wind turbines. They shut down.....the whole system shuts down.

That sounds too ridiculous to be true, I would assume that all grid generation is interconnected, one fails and another attempts to "backfill."
 
This story doesn't provide much depth and it's totally mislabeled because in the Soviet Union, the rules would at least exist even if they weren't followed. In Texas the rules are the utility makes their own rules and the consumer pays the price. ERCOT is just a cartel of providers. They formed it to avoid being regulated by the guvmnt.
The Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) manages the flow of electric power to more than 26 million Texas customers -- representing about 90 percent of the state’s electric load. As the independent system operator for the region, ERCOT schedules power on an electric grid that connects more than 46,500 miles of transmission lines and 680+ generation units. It also performs financial settlement for the competitive wholesale bulk-power market and administers retail switching for 8 million premises in competitive choice areas. ERCOT is a membership-based 501(c)(4) nonprofit corporation, governed by a board of directors and subject to oversight by the Public Utility Commission of Texas and the Texas Legislature. Its members include consumers, cooperatives, generators, power marketers, retail electric providers, investor-owned electric utilities, transmission and distribution providers and municipally owned electric utilities.

This is straight from the ERCOT website and the second to last sentence there (I'll just assume you can read) clearly states they are subject to oversight by the PUCT and the Texas Legislature. They ARE regulated by the government but don't let facts get in the way of your BS.
 
Just not so. The grid is only dependent on a small fraction of its power from windmills (average of 7% in the winter with the stated ability to cover all of it with coal and gas) and their stated plan is to rely more heavily on gas and coal in the winter. None of the real issues are caused by the lack of wind power. The blaming of "green energy" for this fiasco is just another diversionary political ploy initiated by Abbot. It has been completely debunked. But lots of folks are doubling down.
Wow would you look at that! We almost agree on something. I'll certainly give you that "green energy" didn't cause this but I would still like to know if it's part of the solution. You tried to tell me before about statistics and if 33000 MW of installed wind generation isn't enough, then how much is? How much more should we invest in something that is clearly not able to reliably produce power when needed? Or should we invest in upgrading the rest of the infrastructure that IS reliable? Or used to be.
 
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The Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) manages the flow of electric power to more than 26 million Texas customers -- representing about 90 percent of the state’s electric load. As the independent system operator for the region, ERCOT schedules power on an electric grid that connects more than 46,500 miles of transmission lines and 680+ generation units. It also performs financial settlement for the competitive wholesale bulk-power market and administers retail switching for 8 million premises in competitive choice areas. ERCOT is a membership-based 501(c)(4) nonprofit corporation, governed by a board of directors and subject to oversight by the Public Utility Commission of Texas and the Texas Legislature. Its members include consumers, cooperatives, generators, power marketers, retail electric providers, investor-owned electric utilities, transmission and distribution providers and municipally owned electric utilities.

This is straight from the ERCOT website and the second to last sentence there (I'll just assume you can read) clearly states they are subject to oversight by the PUCT and the Texas Legislature. They ARE regulated by the government but don't let facts get in the way of your BS.
Read a bit more about it. You might be surprised that the ERCOT website doesn't tell the whole story. Even in the story linked by the rush chairman, you will see that. The reason Texas went it alone was so their utilities could avoid oversight.
 
Wow would you look at that! We almost agree on something. I'll certainly give you that "green energy" didn't cause this but I would still like to know if it's part of the solution. You tried to tell me before about statistics and if 33000 MW of installed wind generation isn't enough, then how much is? How much more should we invest in something that is clearly not able to reliably produce power when needed? Or should we invest in upgrading the rest of the infrastructure that IS reliable? Or used to be.
It is reliable if you install it properly. It's still providing power in Canada and Germany and the northern part of the USA. But you have to buy the fancy winter weather package if you want it to work in the winter.
In Texas they avoided that package on their gas fired plants too. Seems like it was a problem for all of them. Even their nuclear plants aren't working properly due to frozen cooling water.
 
That sounds too ridiculous to be true, I would assume that all grid generation is interconnected, one fails and another attempts to "backfill."
I am sure it is all interconnected. But when a large number of turbines are shutdown it increases loads not only on other generation sources but also the transmission system. Add in extreme weather causing transmission issues it makes the entire system that much less stable.
 
Agreed. We might even see this proactively in the listings in the short term future. I was fortunate to have a friend that didn't lose power only a few miles away without a lot of hilly roads in between so it was much easier for me to find a warm place to stay than it was for many others.
I'm certainly "using" this if/when I sell my home. I had trepidation when the city told me they were building the new fire station adjacent to my 1 acre lot. I figured it would be noisy and busy. But they have been great. Better than an apartment building or retail place for certain (my lot was re-zoned to commercial a few years ago). But, having power on, all the time was the crème de la crème. And being on my private well, no need for boiling the failed city water (which happens monthly here). Great suggestion!!
 
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