We accept tradeoffs every day. We don't outlaw autos in spite of traffic deaths.
My opinion.
- Thread starter NedFromYork
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Many people just don't care. THey just don't. It is a me, me, me world and screw everybody else. It is the same reason why selfies have become a thing in the last 10 years... it reinforces the me, me, me attitude.
OK, since you decided to chime in ... at what levels are you willing to make trade-offs for a situation like this? What nominal figure, in terms of deaths ... or percent of population dead, are you willing to accept here? In other words, how many deaths are you willing to accept before you say “hey, maybe we should close down some businesses for a bit?” Or, like I asked above, is it some sliding scale of X amount of deaths per perceived drop in GDP? I didn’t ask if we do or don’t make trade-offs. I’m quite certain we do. I’m asking about this particular situation, and others like it.
For these purposes, we’ll ignore the communicable nature of the problem when it comes to viruses, which has a unique impact on decision-making.
Didn't say it was like the flu. We'll see what the final numbers are compared to flu and pneumonia and other fatalities we permit on an annual basis.
So you don’t. Dr Fauci has said it’s stronger and more contagious. The numbers are jumping everywhere and that is with most in lockdown. The world is in a lockdown....do they do that for the flu?
The problem with this thing is we don’t know when the first case actually entered America. Who already had it. Who has it now but hasn’t been tested. How many people had it or have it with little or no symptoms. Everything is a crapshoot.
I’m go with Fauci on this one. He stated clearly this is more contagious and more deadly. Could you imagine what the numbers would be like without the lockdowns?
I agree it’s worse than the flu no doubt plus I like Fauci. Having said that without knowing when it first got here and who already had it or is undiagnosed the fatality rate could be significantly lower. I believe it was in our country well before the first diagnosed case on 01/21.
Thanks for what you're doing Storm. We're all in your debt.
What do you suggest? That we treat mortality like a winnable game? A lot of people living a really long time with a lot maladies that would naturally already have them in graves on a rock with only so much shit to support all of us wankers. Large scale death is about as ingrained in human culture as are dogs or fire or wheels.
Your sudden touching concern for the sanctity of life (as long as it doesn't interfere with your brand of ideology) is duly noted, Ding.
Honestly, it chokes me up.
But I don't know, how much social ruin in terms of devastated lives, destroyed families, social pathologies to include suicide and drug addiction and alcoholism and depression, offsets a certain number of old people with debilitating conditions delaying their deaths by a year or two in return for the survival of our economy?
Expound on those numbers please and thanks in advance.
Last week in December I had flu like symptoms. Fever lasted 2/3 days. Felt wiped out for a week. But what caught my attention was how labored my breathing became walking up one flight of stairs. I was like that for over a week.
I read an article today that stated Italy and France don't count deaths that occur at home or in a nursing home. If that is true.....so much for truth in numbers.
I also find it interesting that people bring up numbers in China and Russia. If I never believed anything coming out of those countries in the past.....why would I start now? Their numbers may be right or wrong....how would I know......but I'm just going to disregard them anyway due to the way they operate.
Had a real strange dry cough for almost 2 weeks back in February and lost my sense of taste to the point that I looked it up on Webmd. Now hearing that is a possible symptom. Felt like I had something in my chest and lungs but nothing would come up. Lost my breath a couple of times. Only had one day of a mild fever.
In Feb, I hope you would have heard about CV and self-quarantined. Thank you if you did.
That sounds very much like what I had. A nonproductive cough that lasted 2 weeks. I'm in pretty good shape for a 54 year old. Walking up about 20 stairs completely gassed me.
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Confirmation bias and denial are very strong protective mechanisms in the human brain. Most people have come around to realize the gravity of the threat, but not everyone is going to. Those that haven't come around by now probably will not ever. As long as they don't hurt the rest of us I've decided for me personally that it's best to just accept those folks as they are. Everyone has a story, and if we knew it the denialism would probably make more sense
Tens of thousands of lives could be saved, as well as hundreds of thousands of hospital visits, if we did this for the flu.
Oh my goodness, you just keep doubling down on this nonsense. The flu has a vaccine and a treatment and hopefully this will soon. At that point in time we won't have to lockdown...the sooner the better. I'm just not sure you comprehend what is happening....honestly. As Gregory stated above....some folks just will live in their own denial.
Not denial. Just observing society's hypocrisy. Swine Flu once had no treatment or vaccine, but the world wasn't burned down as a result.
Again, still in denial. It's as if you aren't watching what is happening or what the folks treating this are saying. You made some silly early comments about the numbers and how it wasn't any different from the flu and you're sticking with them. Meanwhile on planet earth that vast majority of the civilized world is in a lockdown like we have not seen in our lifetime. Just keep thinking this is the same or some plot that the entire planet used to leverage some political gain or whatever crazy angle you are taking. Maybe it's some sort of weird denial you need to keep sane...either way...I cannot help you there.
Covid-19 is worse than the flu - how can this be a debate?
Throwing out the high and the low, flu deaths in the US averaged about 40K over the past 9 years. Some get a vaccine and if you need care you go get it. The health care system is generally not taxed because flu season stretches over a long period and the death rate is 0.1%. As a society we accept the totals.
News sources are reporting that Whitehouse coronavirus response coordinator Dr. Brix is projecting 100-200K fatalities with Covid-19 doing what we are doing today. It is also reported that if we do nothing the death toll will be 2.2MM.
The numbers speak for themselves and they certainly get your attention . What is worse - the shutdown impact, or having the nation come to a halt because everyone is sick and people who need care can't get it and they suffer and die?
Throwing out the high and the low, flu deaths in the US averaged about 40K over the past 9 years. Some get a vaccine and if you need care you go get it. The health care system is generally not taxed because flu season stretches over a long period and the death rate is 0.1%. As a society we accept the totals.
News sources are reporting that Whitehouse coronavirus response coordinator Dr. Brix is projecting 100-200K fatalities with Covid-19 doing what we are doing today. It is also reported that if we do nothing the death toll will be 2.2MM.
The numbers speak for themselves and they certainly get your attention . What is worse - the shutdown impact, or having the nation come to a halt because everyone is sick and people who need care can't get it and they suffer and die?
I agree with you that Covid 19 is worse than the flu, in terms of being highly contagious. But I expect when this is all said and done, Dr. Brix's fatality estimate will be an order of magnitude too high. The 2.2 MM number will likely be two orders of magnitude too high.
Dr.Brix's numbers are intended to encourage people to keep practicing social distancing--that remains very important over the next couple of weeks. So I can't blame her too much. If she threw out a number like 20,000 fatalities, social distancing would go out the window and then the fatality number would probably be much higher.
Swine flu was a resurgence of the H1N1 strain which was so deadly in 1918-1919. First time around it killed over 50 million globally and the world sure as hell did burn. We don't want that again. Fortunately, the second time around there was fairly good herd immunity in the adult population and the death rate was much lower.
An important difference between flu and SARS-CoV-2 is how long we've been dealing with them. The flu has been transmitted between humans, at a minimum, for several thousand years. Possibly much longer. The virus has had time to mutate into over a hundred variations, and is ubiquitous in our environment. That horse left the barn long ago and we've long since come to accept that as a society. We still do our best with vaccines and treatment.
What if you could go back in time, to when the flu had only just become a disease that affected humans, and had only a couple of mutations...and prevent that? Stop it from ever taking hold, prevent it from ever becoming the killer that we know and accept?
Right now we have the ability to stop SARS-CoV-2 from becoming ubiquitous, from having the chance to mutate into 100 different flavors. We don't even need a time machine. We need to manage it the best we can it until we come up with a working vaccine and can create herd immunity. Last thing we need is to have another virus, more easily transmitted and more deadly than the flu, take root.
This novel coronavirus is a real sumbitch. It's really good at what it does. We're seeing a big economic cost right now, but it's nothing compared to the costs if we let it get away from us. That's tough to see when comparing a brand new desease to the damage we see from our old nemesis the flu, which has at least a 3000 year head start on SARS-CoV-2. Let's not let this new thing get any change to catch up.
It's hardly hypocrisy, it's simply about risk tolerance. Society does not want to risk another Spanish Flu situation, which is a real risk if nothing is done.
Swine flu had treatments and there was a vaccine developed just like any other one is developed for the seasonal flu. Swine flu ended up being 5 times less deadly than the typical seasonal flu. Swine flu didn't hide for 14 days...etc etc etc
it has been 12 days, we should be at peak today, right?
I would like you, seriously, to explain wtf nedmodel you were using to make these opinions.
for the rest of time, NedfromYork's coronavirus opinion puts him in the same class as PennStateNate's UVA is overated.
But seriously ned, how did you form your opinion?
Nah. Nate’s prediction was, in the end, harmless. The head in the sand crap on this virus has serious consequences.
Ned needs “just the flu” tattooed on his forehead
I have a couple theories ....
1. Ned did talk to people in China, but the people he talked to didn't tell him the extreme measure that China took to contain this.
2. Ned listened to some elected officials who said this is no big deal
Nice use of quotes for something I didn't write. I did caveat and say, we'll see so not completely close minded to other possibilities so I'll defer on the tattoo, you can save that for Cuomo, DeBlasio, and Whitmer.
Much better than your original snarky post so I appreciate the diplomacy in this one.
In the interest of accuracy and in fairness to those three, it was someone else who early on was beating the "It's just like the flu" drum.
50k from pneumonia per year, 30k for flu. I'll get a tattoo of 80k on my shoulder.
And which one are you forced to die alone because it’s so dangerous that no family members are allowed near you as you expire?
Yep, better to double down on the initial comments than admit they were way off the mark. Weird stand to take as we all know what is going on.
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