Well said. The’ why didn’t you tell me’ it was like this narrative fed into that. No way to describe it or be prepared.
Masters Of The Air
- Thread starter SR108
- Start date
Unfortunately, not impressed so far. Character development is eh.....the visuals are great the cinematography amazing, hopefully it develops better. I will rewatch both again and try to get a different impression in coming days.
As a Airborne Infantry veteran and avid WW2 buff before SPR......Pacific and BoB will not be duplicated unfortunately. People too often compare the aforementioned series unfairly. BoB is about a unit--Pacific is multi plot/character. Even though I am highly found of the ETO, I found Pacific much more impactful..the last scene Sledge and his father hunting and he broke down from PTSD was gut wrenching....the best scene from BoB was the German general's farewell speech to his men translated by Liebgott episode 10.
This June I am jumping 3x in Normandy for the 80th Anniversary out of actual C-47s . June 5th cross channel one in Upottery UK in am--back across channel afternoon jump in Auzerville...June 9th St. Mere Eglise jump!
The greatest generation remembrance!
As a Airborne Infantry veteran and avid WW2 buff before SPR......Pacific and BoB will not be duplicated unfortunately. People too often compare the aforementioned series unfairly. BoB is about a unit--Pacific is multi plot/character. Even though I am highly found of the ETO, I found Pacific much more impactful..the last scene Sledge and his father hunting and he broke down from PTSD was gut wrenching....the best scene from BoB was the German general's farewell speech to his men translated by Liebgott episode 10.
This June I am jumping 3x in Normandy for the 80th Anniversary out of actual C-47s . June 5th cross channel one in Upottery UK in am--back across channel afternoon jump in Auzerville...June 9th St. Mere Eglise jump!
The greatest generation remembrance!
The airmen in the 8th had it better than the guys in the 15th out of Italy. The guys in Italy lived in tents and the runways were temporary iron mesh. Don’t think the guys in Italy were near to many females either.
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Not sure that the main characters should have been Majors. The reality during the war was that the vast majority of the pilots, co pilots, navigators and bombardiers were lieutenants or 2nd lieutenants. The gunners and radio men were enlisted men and NCOs. Probably would have a better story line with the lower ranking airmen.
I thought the same thing at the beginning when they were at that half moon booth table dancing and ringing with those girls…they did narrate that they had been in basic together before the war….thats why they are majors in 1943
Just finished episode 2... disappointing. All the characters are just incredibly superficial. I wish the whole episode was dedicated to the grounds crew, instead we get a line about how important they are and a scene where they're connecting to kids, I guess to show how mature 19 year olds had to be. One of the main leads is just an a**hole, and the other is the definition of bland. Hint to producers: having your main character chew on a toothpick does not an interesting character make. Most egregious of all though is the absence of any dramatic tension. They could really go with the difference in strategy between the U.S. and England about how to conduct strategic bombing, but I have a feeling it won't be brought up as a major narrative point. Oh well, still like the little details like shooting flares from the B17.
As a young sales executive for a major hotel chain in the mid eighties and having the opportunity to host many, many bomber reunions visiting Dayton, Ohio because of the Air force museum. Three things were very prominent in discussions with these heroes.
1. Many guys were very young… I’m saying 18-25. Imagine college kids doing these missions.
2. In the early going, the gunners underneath were in a death bed if a plane came back without landing gear. Only way in and out of that spot was from the outside and not from inside the plane. Later versions were modified.
3. The most dangerous part of the mission was at takeoff because those early up had to circle, often times in fog, until all were in the air so they could fly in tight formation. There were many mid air collisions.
This was the greatest generation (born in the 1920’s) although many born in the 1840’s and late 1890’s and early 1900’s bore the brunt those early wars.
1. Many guys were very young… I’m saying 18-25. Imagine college kids doing these missions.
2. In the early going, the gunners underneath were in a death bed if a plane came back without landing gear. Only way in and out of that spot was from the outside and not from inside the plane. Later versions were modified.
3. The most dangerous part of the mission was at takeoff because those early up had to circle, often times in fog, until all were in the air so they could fly in tight formation. There were many mid air collisions.
This was the greatest generation (born in the 1920’s) although many born in the 1840’s and late 1890’s and early 1900’s bore the brunt those early wars.
I'm currently reading Gunner's Glory by Jonnie M Clark. It's about Marine Machine Gunners from WWII to Vietnam. Look it up. I think you will like it if you like to read.
So looks like we were all coming to the same conclusion that this series was based on the Air cinematography...
www.thedrive.com
Masters Of The Air's Aerial Sequences Are Terrifying, Game Changing
In just two episodes, Masters Of The Air has set a new standard for the depiction of aviation and air combat in Hollywood.
www.thedrive.com
Thanks for posting thatSo looks like we were all coming to the same conclusion that this series was based on the Air cinematography...
Masters Of The Air's Aerial Sequences Are Terrifying, Game Changing
In just two episodes, Masters Of The Air has set a new standard for the depiction of aviation and air combat in Hollywood.
The only thing that caught my eye is that I’ve read having the morning off a mission was considered bad luck. Maybe that is wrong or only in a single squadron. But there was talk of shaving and the pilots are clearly freshly shaved. Also note that these guys were often awoken at 4am and they didn’t even know they had a mission that day.
USA Today review…. They pan the first three episodes but say the story line gets better. I couldn’t care less as I am trying to understand the history and immerse in the experience.
…"Masters" really picks up in Episodes 4 and 5, when the story expands beyond planes coming and going from the base. Some men are stuck on the ground in occupied France and Belgium, working with the Resistance to get back to the Allies' side. Others are taken to Nazi prisoner-of-war camps. Star navigator Crosby (Anthony Boyle) is promoted and stops flying but is wracked with survivor's guilt. Ace pilot "Rosie" (Nate Mann) seems like the luckiest airman around. As D-Day, and an end, approaches, the legendary all-Black Tuskegee Airmen are finally introduced, which feels a little like tokenism considering how prominently the Black actors are featured in promotional materials….
I have to agree about the Tuskegee airmen. We’ll see hire they introduce them but they weren’t bombers but fighters. Perhaps as the air war continues it is part of the fighter escorts learned and used later.
…"Masters" really picks up in Episodes 4 and 5, when the story expands beyond planes coming and going from the base. Some men are stuck on the ground in occupied France and Belgium, working with the Resistance to get back to the Allies' side. Others are taken to Nazi prisoner-of-war camps. Star navigator Crosby (Anthony Boyle) is promoted and stops flying but is wracked with survivor's guilt. Ace pilot "Rosie" (Nate Mann) seems like the luckiest airman around. As D-Day, and an end, approaches, the legendary all-Black Tuskegee Airmen are finally introduced, which feels a little like tokenism considering how prominently the Black actors are featured in promotional materials….
I have to agree about the Tuskegee airmen. We’ll see hire they introduce them but they weren’t bombers but fighters. Perhaps as the air war continues it is part of the fighter escorts learned and used later.
Review: Austin Butler's WWII epic 'Masters of the Air' is way too slow off the runway
Starring Austin Butler, Callum Turner and Barry Keoghan, "Masters of Air" wants to be "Band of Brothers" but will lose viewers before it gets good.
www.usatoday.com
“Not Much Thicker Than A Coke Can”: Masters Of The Air Episode 1’s Gnarly Injury Explained By Expert
"More men were hospitalised due to frostbite..."
screenrant.com
So, episode three dropped and it is really good. It also sets up some story lines that will be interesting down the road (@SR108 will enjoy this). I won't do spoilers but if your like me, you have a hard time following the show due to the fact that they all look the same in their masks, jackets and helmets. I would have like them to put a short note up on the screen identifying the plane (Alice from Dallas, for example). Regardless, I find the reviews to be helpful. This one also gives you some background information on the battle that is not given in the show.
www.vulture.com
Masters of the Air Recap: Literally the Fog of War
The Bloody Hundredth’s numbers are further reduced.
www.vulture.com
While my father was on a B- 24, not a B-17, have often wondered how the airmen bailed out. I assumed it was out the side gunner opening. Now I know.So, episode three dropped and it is really good. It also sets up some story lines that will be interesting down the road (@SR108 will enjoy this). I won't do spoilers but if your like me, you have a hard time following the show due to the fact that they all look the same in their masks, jackets and helmets. I would have like them to put a short note up on the screen identifying the plane (Alice from Dallas, for example). Regardless, I find the reviews to be helpful. This one also gives you some background information on the battle that is not given in the show.
Masters of the Air Recap: Literally the Fog of War
The Bloody Hundredth’s numbers are further reduced.
Yeah the naming titles like they did in the old film Midway as an example...really like that!So, episode three dropped and it is really good. It also sets up some story lines that will be interesting down the road (@SR108 will enjoy this). I won't do spoilers but if your like me, you have a hard time following the show due to the fact that they all look the same in their masks, jackets and helmets. I would have like them to put a short note up on the screen identifying the plane (Alice from Dallas, for example). Regardless, I find the reviews to be helpful. This one also gives you some background information on the battle that is not given in the show.
Masters of the Air Recap: Literally the Fog of War
The Bloody Hundredth’s numbers are further reduced.
Spoiler Alert
Highlight this if you've seen episode 3 (first, when the radio guy goes to bail out and babyface is stuck in the ball turret is compelling and gives you a feel for what it took to bail out in a plane that was doomed and out of control plus the difficult decisions that had to be made. Second, when the radio guy is told by the existence "here is your choice. you can surrender and likely survive the war in a german POW camp. Or, you can try to escape but if caught, shot as a spy. Your choice. I thought about your father having to make that choice.)
After watching the first three episodes, I’m not sure how you could consider these airmen as masters of the air. The casualties were astronomical. I read somewhere that airmen casualties in the European theater were worse than what the marines had in the Pacific.So, episode three dropped and it is really good. It also sets up some story lines that will be interesting down the road (@SR108 will enjoy this). I won't do spoilers but if your like me, you have a hard time following the show due to the fact that they all look the same in their masks, jackets and helmets. I would have like them to put a short note up on the screen identifying the plane (Alice from Dallas, for example). Regardless, I find the reviews to be helpful. This one also gives you some background information on the battle that is not given in the show.
Masters of the Air Recap: Literally the Fog of War
The Bloody Hundredth’s numbers are further reduced.
I had to pick up my daughter after her first day of work at 11. At 9:15, I got an alert from Apple that MotA had dropped a day early (tonight is Curb Your Enthusiasm beginning of their last season).
I would guess way less chance of hitting the plane vs diving out the side.
I know skydivers jump put the side, but those planes are smaller and hopefully not on fire or falling apart.
When skydiving.. The cessnas are slower and u drop straight down hence u clear the tail.. Little different jumping from a c130 141 or a c47 doing 140mph..with no tail in the way of the aforementioned it rips u out like a horizontal slide till the shoot opens....in those bombers it's get out however u can and make sure u clear any of the tail etc.. Thus speed has everything to do with jumping out.. Same as u cant go to fast or it will rip the shoot and u can't get a good formed jump posture
Spoilers ahead....
So having watched Part 4, I'm sad to say that Masters of the Air hasn't gotten much better. I mean they're stuck in Africa and all they show is them posing in front of their B17 on sand? The part about downed crew being brought back to England by the underground had great potential and there was some drama when they entered the Paris rail station, but not enough to compensate for the thought of why would they go through Paris in the first place? If crews were actually brought through Paris, an explanation of why would've been helpful. They're about to head out on a life or death journey and they don't have a meeting about what to expect and how to behave? Then their guide decides she needs to use the bathroom right as they're entering the station? For Bucky's adventures in London, there is no motivation given for the woman to have fallen so deeply in love with Bucky that to spend one more day with him would make her devastated at the thought of him dying. Then finally, does anyone care that the most boring character in a WWII series ever is downed on a mission? Of course, he's not dead though because they don't show his plane going down. And if anything, this series is pretty obvious.
I'm just very disappointed in this series that I was really looking forward to. It did remind me of a great movie about the U.S. strategic bombing campaign in Europe called "Command Decision." Highly recommend it.
So having watched Part 4, I'm sad to say that Masters of the Air hasn't gotten much better. I mean they're stuck in Africa and all they show is them posing in front of their B17 on sand? The part about downed crew being brought back to England by the underground had great potential and there was some drama when they entered the Paris rail station, but not enough to compensate for the thought of why would they go through Paris in the first place? If crews were actually brought through Paris, an explanation of why would've been helpful. They're about to head out on a life or death journey and they don't have a meeting about what to expect and how to behave? Then their guide decides she needs to use the bathroom right as they're entering the station? For Bucky's adventures in London, there is no motivation given for the woman to have fallen so deeply in love with Bucky that to spend one more day with him would make her devastated at the thought of him dying. Then finally, does anyone care that the most boring character in a WWII series ever is downed on a mission? Of course, he's not dead though because they don't show his plane going down. And if anything, this series is pretty obvious.
I'm just very disappointed in this series that I was really looking forward to. It did remind me of a great movie about the U.S. strategic bombing campaign in Europe called "Command Decision." Highly recommend it.
I haven't seen the episode yet but will comment once I do. However, two points. The first is that, for me, I don't really care that much about the backstory of the movie's love stories and character development. I watched Ben Affleck's "Pearl Harbor" and got my fill of that! LOL
Second, pilots were taken through Paris. I don't know how usual or how realistic this story is, but here is an article about one such pilot that was downed in 1943 and the article written in 2019.
Shot Down by the Nazis and on the Run in Occupied France
On a 1943 bombing run, Sgt. Joe Caldwell parachuted into enemy territory when his plane was shot down. He didn’t know where he was. He didn’t speak French. He was terrified.
www.thedailybeast.com
Same here. I was hoping/expecting more of the story to be about how the missions were planned at a strategic and tactical level. How/who decided which groups took part in which missions? What was the pace of flying? What was the effect on the crews? What kind of training did the gunners get in order to shoot at enemy fighters instead of other B17s when they were so tightly packed together. How did they get into formation. Was there flak and fighters on the return flight? What if you had to use the bathroom while on a mission? etc. etc. I guess my biggest gripe though is the lack of dramatic tension.I haven't seen the episode yet but will comment once I do. However, two points. The first is that, for me, I don't really care that much about the backstory of the movie's love stories and character development. I watched Ben Affleck's "Pearl Harbor" and got my fill of that! LOL
Second, pilots were taken through Paris. I don't know how usual or how realistic this story is, but here is an article about one such pilot that was downed in 1943 and the article written in 2019.
Shot Down by the Nazis and on the Run in Occupied France
On a 1943 bombing run, Sgt. Joe Caldwell parachuted into enemy territory when his plane was shot down. He didn’t know where he was. He didn’t speak French. He was terrified.www.thedailybeast.com
Agreed. I stated before the guy who hired me out of college was the lead Nav for the 100th bomb group (351st squadron) when the war ended. His name was Norman Graham and he was from Jennette PA. Based on what he told me:
SPOILER ALERT!! Episode 4 Dont Read if haven't scene
Interesting last night episode...no way they kill of Buck without seeing what happened? Would they do that?
I cant believe they wouldn't show a dramatic scene with his end? Perhaps its trying to articulate the Airmen's POV with regards to their friends not knowing what happened to them.
Interesting last night episode...no way they kill of Buck without seeing what happened? Would they do that?
I cant believe they wouldn't show a dramatic scene with his end? Perhaps its trying to articulate the Airmen's POV with regards to their friends not knowing what happened to them.
Character development is pretty difficult when you have casualty rates as high as they did.
Just saw a WW II pilot’s bomber jacket appraised. Woman bough a house and the jacket was inside. It was 1942 jacket made from horse hide. Had the name of the plane, Rumbling Tom, and a painting of a black panther coming out of a cloud. And it had 26 bombs painted beneath the picture signifying 26 missions.
Appraised to be between $6,000 and $10,000. Didn’t see what year the show was filmed,
Edit: forgot to say it was the PBS show Antiques Roadshow.
Appraised to be between $6,000 and $10,000. Didn’t see what year the show was filmed,
Edit: forgot to say it was the PBS show Antiques Roadshow.
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I thought us Airborne Infantry guys had it tuff.....No thanks as an Airman in WW2 no way...
Yea I think they are doing a very good job capturing what had to be surreal experience of dwindling numbers till one crew all that's left and a whole lot of empty space in bunk house and mess hall.
It makes you wonder after the first sortie, how they ever got those guys to get back in the plane.
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What I thought---there is almost little to no skill of increasing your chances of survival....and how often do they make them fly missions. Its unreal. Again, the Greatest Generation.
Easy and forgiving society-- progress and technology.
I saw a meme the other day on instagram
"Men 80 years ago killed themselves if they couldn't serve. Men now change their gender to compete in womans sports"
Unreal....
@SR108 I asked that exact same question of Norm Graham (lead Nav for the Bloody 100th at the end of the war). His response was "Because my buddy did."
Spoiler Alert!: I took away the scene where the captain starts humming Artie Shaw's "The Chant"
The only pilot to successfully bring his men back to base was Major Robert “Rosie” Rosenthal (Nate Mann). While the other planes went down over occupied Europe, leaving surviving soldiers to fend for themselves behind enemy lines, Rosenthal managed to keep his panicking crew calm ahead of a harrowing dog fight by humming Artie Shaw’s “The Chant.” Masters of the Air Episode 5 “Part Five” depicts this as a terrifying, yet heroic moment, highlighting the bravery of real-life Jewish-American hero Robert Rosenthal.
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