Listening to NJ governor’s daily update...

[delcoLion]

I was slightly distracted but I think I heard one of his people mentioned that the state is using 40 year old mainframes and asking for COBOL volunteers? Wow, didn’t know that language was still around.

note: not a criticism, just surprised that these systems haven’t been upgraded.

 

[BobPSU92]

Maybe they could upgrade to modern systems if we paid high taxes in NJ.

 

[TFBaum]

I was slightly distracted but I think I heard one of his people mentioned that the state is using 40 year old mainframes and asking for COBOL volunteers? Wow, didn’t know that language was still around.

note: not a criticism, just surprised that these systems haven’t been upgraded.

COBOL programmers are some of the highest paid programmers in the banking industry

 

[bdgan]

On a related subject...

I have had numerous healthcare providers. Doctors, radiologists, specialists, etc. If they aren't in the same network I ask them to send my diagnosis and test results to one another. For example to myself, my primary care physician my cardiologist, etc. They can only send it by fax. Otherwise it's a HIPPA violation.

Seriously, who still uses fax machines these days?

 

[interrobang]

COBOL is very much still in demand.

And why can't your doctor send your info if you the patient approves it? That's not a HIPAA violation at that point. Plus they don't even need your permission to share info if it's for treatment purposes.

https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-profe...ation-for-treatment-over-the-phone/index.html

 

[rigi11]

Does closed captioning not exist?

 

[bdgan]

COBOL is very much still in demand.

And why can't your doctor send your info if you the patient approves it? That's not a HIPAA violation at that point. Plus they don't even need your permission to share info if it's for treatment purposes.

https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-profe...ation-for-treatment-over-the-phone/index.html

They can send it but it has to be by mail or fax. I can get a hard copy in the office but they can't e-mail it. That's what I've been told by multiple providers in FLA.

Even a lab request to draw blood. They can fax the order to me or the lab or I can pick up a hard copy in the office. They will not email, text, etc.

 

[Chris92]

COBOL programmers are some of the highest paid programmers in the banking industry

100% correct. The Social Security Administration I believe is still in the midst of converting off the mainframe and COBOL.

 

[Madsol]

They can send it but it has to be by mail or fax. I can get a hard copy in the office but they can't e-mail it. That's what I've been told by multiple providers in FLA.

Even a lab request to draw blood. They can fax the order to me or the lab or I can pick up a hard copy in the office. They will not email, text, etc.

Sounds more like they're being overly cautious to the point of being absurd. If you sign a release, they could print your record in the newspaper and not violate HIPAA.

 

[TTman]

Organizations have these applications, developed as you said 40 years ago, they have been tested and certified, so the are basically afraid to replace them. They have put in many updates over the years, the documentation is not always good, so there is great concern that they cannot actually replace them without inducing major issues....so they just keep shoehorning in updates. Obviously someday in will all come crashing down, but they hope the will be gone before that happens!

 

[LionDeNittany]

On a related subject...

I have had numerous healthcare providers. Doctors, radiologists, specialists, etc. If they aren't in the same network I ask them to send my diagnosis and test results to one another. For example to myself, my primary care physician my cardiologist, etc. They can only send it by fax. Otherwise it's a HIPPA violation.

Seriously, who still uses fax machines these days?

That is written into the law. Faxing. Updating the laws is nearly impossible... thus they still fax.

LdN

 

[OaktonDave]

Organizations have these applications, developed as you said 40 years ago, they have been tested and certified, so the are basically afraid to replace them. They have put in many updates over the years, the documentation is not always good, so there is great concern that they cannot actually replace them without inducing major issues....so they just keep shoehorning in updates. Obviously someday in will all come crashing down, but they hope the will be gone before that happens!

One of the problems that some of the oldest of the dinosaur systems are also managing the most data. The gap between the technological eras is so great that there is significant risk in trying to get the data from one system to the next.

 

[AvgUser]

Damn. I only remember FORTRAN

 

[The Spin Meister]

Sounds more like they're being overly cautious to the point of being absurd. If you sign a release, they could print your record in the newspaper and not violate HIPAA.

Could be more a liaility issue. Fear of hackers

 

[interrobang]

Could be more a liaility issue. Fear of hackers

Or they fear technology and don't understand HIPAA

 

[Norm Petersin]

You know what they say, Garbage state in, garbage state out

 

[Cletus11]

goto an airport lately, the gates print off the captain pilots checklist and other information on a 1980's dot matrix type printer. I asked the gate attendant what was up with that and she said that the cost to keep up the printers is cheaper than spending the money to reprogram everything and until all the printers run out of spares/spare parts, it will stay this way. She said she would give it about 3-4 more years as the spare/spare parts are becoming more scarce and now continue to take longer and longer to be fixed when they break.

 

[interrobang]

goto an airport lately, the gates print off the captain pilots checklist and other information on a 1980's dot matrix type printer. I asked the gate attendant what was up with that and she said that the cost to keep up the printers is cheaper than spending the money to reprogram everything and until all the printers run out of spares/spare parts, it will stay this way. She said she would give it about 3-4 more years as the spare/spare parts are becoming more scarce and now continue to take longer and longer to be fixed when they break.

They're cheap, reliable, and can print multi-part printouts. Why change? Companies still make and support them, so no reason to change. Plus airlines aren't the only industry to still rely on them.

 

[YeOldeCup]

Damn. I only remember FORTRAN

Programmed in PL1 and Fortran WATFIV at PSU, then picked up COBOL in the AF (PSU only taught it once per year back then). Hands on programming for the AF's global logistics system at Scott AFB and Dover AFB for six years before moving on to an agency on Bolling AFB. From then on it was Pascal, Ada, and on to the 4GLs.

 

[ILLINOISLION]

Still think Sony’s Betamax was the better system and here to stay.....

Bought my first recording system (VHS) the day before PSU - Georgia!

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Damn. I only remember FORTRAN

Nothing wrong with Fortran, either. It is still very much in use. I think the Bloomberg terminal is written in Fortran, or was. It's extremely fast

 

[bison13]

Damn. I only remember FORTRAN

Ha. I instead took Comp sci 271 which was c++, or as we called it B-

 

[dbaguy]

100% correct. The Social Security Administration I believe is still in the midst of converting off the mainframe and COBOL.

Just curious. What is the target software/hardware environment?

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Just curious. What is the target software/hardware environment?

I have never understood why organizations will spend time and money to re-write programs, that already work, into a different language. The number of things that can go wrong when you convert is unbounded.

The excuse is usually that they can't find people who learn the old language coming out of college. Who cares? All of the programming languages do the same basic things. Here's a secret - If somebody can't learn a new one, then they aren't good at any of them.

 

[Chris92]

Just curious. What is the target software/hardware environment?

This article is a coupe of years old, but it has the details.
https://federalnewsnetwork.com/all-...urity-on-schedule-to-modernize-it-systems-by/

 

[Lion8286]

Wanted urgently: People who know a half century-old computer language so states can process unemployment claims

On top of ventilators, face masks and health care workers, you can now add COBOL programmers to the list of what several states urgently need as they battle the coronavirus pandemic.

In New Jersey, Gov. Phil Murphy has put out a call for volunteers who know how to code the decades-old computer programming language called COBOL because many of the state's systems still run on older mainframes.

In Kansas, Gov. Laura Kelly said the state's Departments of Labor was in the process of modernizing from COBOL but then the virus interfered. "So they're operating on really old stuff," she said.

Connecticut has also admitted that it's struggling to process the large volume of unemployment claims with its "40-year-old system comprised of a COBOL mainframe and four other separate systems." The state is working to develop a new benefits system with Maine, Rhode Island, Mississippi and Oklahoma. But the system won't be finished before next year.

"Literally, we have systems that are 40-plus-years-old," New Jersey Gov. Murphy said over the weekend. "There'll be lots of postmortems and one of them on our list will be how did we get here where we literally needed COBOL programmers?"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/business/coronavirus-cobol-programmers-new-jersey-trnd/index.html

 

[bdgan]

Wanted urgently: People who know a half century-old computer language so states can process unemployment claims

On top of ventilators, face masks and health care workers, you can now add COBOL programmers to the list of what several states urgently need as they battle the coronavirus pandemic.

In New Jersey, Gov. Phil Murphy has put out a call for volunteers who know how to code the decades-old computer programming language called COBOL because many of the state's systems still run on older mainframes.

In Kansas, Gov. Laura Kelly said the state's Departments of Labor was in the process of modernizing from COBOL but then the virus interfered. "So they're operating on really old stuff," she said.

Connecticut has also admitted that it's struggling to process the large volume of unemployment claims with its "40-year-old system comprised of a COBOL mainframe and four other separate systems." The state is working to develop a new benefits system with Maine, Rhode Island, Mississippi and Oklahoma. But the system won't be finished before next year.

"Literally, we have systems that are 40-plus-years-old," New Jersey Gov. Murphy said over the weekend. "There'll be lots of postmortems and one of them on our list will be how did we get here where we literally needed COBOL programmers?"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/business/coronavirus-cobol-programmers-new-jersey-trnd/index.html

How will more programmers help make the current system run faster?

 

[TFBaum]

How will more programmers help make the current system run faster?

Zero

 

[bobroars]

Asking for volunteers to come program your mainframe........ Hmmm, do you think that's like giving a hacker a license to steal? What could possibly go wrong?

 

[psufan1999797]

Aren't all of our banking transactions done on ancient, dinosaur systems? How about SABRE for airline reservations? Maybe I'm part of the "get off my lawn crowd" but seems like the cost to forklift some of these systems to a sexy, cloud-based solution might outweigh the benefits...

 

[TFBaum]

Asking for volunteers to come program your mainframe........ Hmmm, do you think that's like giving a hacker a license to steal? What could possibly go wrong?

The hackers would be lost. It is a main frame

 

[interrobang]

100% correct. The Social Security Administration I believe is still in the midst of converting off the mainframe and COBOL.

I think they've been trying to do that since like 2004. HHS loves IBM products. It'll be tough to cut that cord.

 

[lein]

I was slightly distracted but I think I heard one of his people mentioned that the state is using 40 year old mainframes and asking for COBOL volunteers? Wow, didn’t know that language was still around.

note: not a criticism, just surprised that these systems haven’t been upgraded.

The punch card lobby and key punch Union has a lot of clout.

 

[TFBaum]

I think they've been trying to do that since like 2004. HHS loves IBM products. It'll be tough to cut that cord.

Can you imagine the conversation between the Microsoft/Oracle/whomever engineers versus the main frame folks lol

 

[IrishHerb]

Damn. I only remember FORTRAN

And FORTRAN is still used in some places. NASA for one.

 

[lionville]

I still have my COBOL, FORTRAN, and Assembler books. Where do I apply?????

 

[delcoLion]

The punch card lobby and key punch Union has a lot of clout.

LOL, I have a bunch of punch cards that I acquired over the years, use them for book marks, notes. Showed one to my millennial nieces and she was wondering what it was.

 

[psuro]

Looks like non essential construction projects will be stopped as of 8 pm Friday. However, the exception list is fairly long, and includes residential construction, even if all you did was sign a contract with the contractor. (Bold is my edit)

Governor Murphy Issues Executive Order 122
Shutting Down Non-Essential Construction
Projects in New Jersey
April 9, 2020

In an intensifying effort to combat the impacts of COVID-19 as it spreads in New Jersey, Governor Phil Murphy issued Executive Order 122 on April 8, 2020, shutting down the "physical operations" of all "non-essential" construction in the state as of Friday, April 10, 2020 at 8:00 pm.

According to Executive Order 122, exceptions or "essential" construction include:

1. Projects necessary for the delivery of health care services, including but not limited to hospitals, other health care facilities and pharmaceutical manufacturing facilities;
2. Transportation projects, including roads, bridges and mass transit facilities or physical infrastructure, including work done at airports and seaports;
3. Utility projects, including those necessary for energy and electricity production and transmission, and any decommissioning of facilities used for electricity generation;
4. Residential projects that are exclusively designed as affordable housing;
5. Projects involving pre-K-12 schools, including but not limited to projects in Schools Development Authority districts, and projects involving higher education facilities;
6. Projects already underway involving individual single-family homes, or an individual apartment unit where an individual already resides, with a construction crew of 5 or fewer individuals. This includes additions to single-family homes such as solar panels;
7. Projects already underway involving a residential unit for which a tenant or buyer has already entered into a legally binding agreement to occupy the unit by a certain date, and construction is necessary to ensure the unit's availability by that date;
8. Projects involving facilities at which any one or more of the following takes place: the manufacture, distribution, storage, or servicing of goods or products that are sold by online retail businesses or essential retail businesses, as defined by Executive Order No. 107 (2020) and subsequent Administrative Orders adopted pursuant to that Order;
9. Projects involving data centers or facilities that are critical to a business's ability to function;
10. Projects necessary for the delivery of essential social services, including homeless shelters;
11. Any project necessary to support law enforcement agencies or first responder units in their response to the COVID-19 emergency;
12. Any project that is ordered or contracted for by Federal, State, county, or municipal government, or any project that must be completed to meet a deadline established by the Federal government;
13. Any work on a non-essential construction project that is required to physically secure the site of the project, ensure the structural integrity of any buildings on the site, abate any hazards that would exist on the site if the construction were to remain in its current condition, remediate a site, or otherwise ensure that the site and any buildings therein are appropriately protected and safe during the suspension of the project; and
14. Any emergency repairs necessary to ensure the health and safety of residents.

Executive Order 122 notes that "construction sites are inherently difficult environments for social distancing to occur, as they frequently require large numbers of individuals to touch the same surfaces, gather closely together in area such as service elevators, an use common facilities such as portable restrooms . . . ." Yet, it acknowledges that "some construction is needed to expand our health care system's capacity, address immediate infrastructure deficiencies, and prevent future disruptions in various areas such as education, housing, and transportation, which are themselves tied to the public health and safety . . . ."

The Executive Order attempts to balance the competing interests of worker health and safety with the need for "essential" construction by requiring essential construction projects to comply with certain minimum requirements:

• Prohibit non-essential visitors from entering the worksite;
• Limit worksite meetings to groups of fewer than ten individuals;
• Require individuals to maintain six feet or more distance between them wherever possible;
• Stagger work start and stop times to limit the number of persons at the worksite;
• Stagger lunch breaks;
• Restrict the number of individuals who can access restrooms and breakrooms concurrently;
• Require workers and visitors to wear cloth face coverings with limited exceptions;
• Require infection control practices, including proper hand washing and coughing and sneezing etiquette;
• Limit sharing of tools, equipment, and machinery;
• Provide hand sanitizer and sanitizing wipes; and
• Require frequent sanitization of high-touch areas like restrooms, breakrooms, equipment, and machinery.

Executive Order 122 attempts to meet the practical reality of construction in New Jersey as many projects struggle in the face of COVID-19. While construction workers have continued to show up for work on New Jersey projects before this latest Executive Order, sailing has been anything but smooth, Projects throughout New Jersey have been facing labor shortages as a result of skittish workers concerned that they cannot effectively maintain the requisite social distancing as they carry out their work. Laborers are worried about their personal health, as well as the health of their family members. As a result, some workers have simply stopped showing up to jobsites. Other construction workers have shown up but have been quietly disgruntled, demoralized or just plain fearful as they attempt to comply with social distancing requirements at a cramped construction site.

While Executive Order 122 does not change the reality for "essential" construction workers, it does offer several prophylactic measures beyond merely complying with the requisite social distancing and CDC guidelines.

With Executive Order 122, New Jersey now joins New York, which late last month narrowed the definition of "essential" construction projects. New York Governor Andrew Cuomo shuttered most New York projects following concerns about the spread of COVID-19 throughout in that state. The Empire State Development Corporation (ESD) issued guidelines following Governor Cuomo's issuance of revised Executive Order 202.6. The ESD noted that all non-essential construction must shut down except emergency construction, which can continue. According to the ESD, "essential" construction in New York includes roads, bridges, transit facilities, utilities, hospitals or health care facilities, affordable housing, and homeless shelters.