JFK assassination question.
- Thread starter SEPATOPTEN
- Start date
Why, do you plan on assassinating any presidents in the near future?
And, where were you on Nov 22nd, 1963? Any alibi??
6.5×52mm Italian Carcano M91/38 bolt-action rifle with a six-round magazine
Serial number C2766. Overall length when assembled: 40.2 inches (102.1 cm); longest piece when disassembled: 34.8 inches (88.4 cm)
Source: Warren Commission Hearings Volume III Page 395
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/html/WC_Vol3_0202a.htm
Serial number C2766. Overall length when assembled: 40.2 inches (102.1 cm); longest piece when disassembled: 34.8 inches (88.4 cm)
Source: Warren Commission Hearings Volume III Page 395
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/html/WC_Vol3_0202a.htm
PSU had a bye and in lieu of JVP being in charge of all child welfare and LE in the Commonwealth........I have long speculated that he was in fact the shooter on the grassy knoll (CIA Operative or Mafioso, take your pick).And, where were you on Nov 22nd, 1963? Any alibi??
The OU fark board was legendary. They had 2 great ones of Joe that I remember. One of his face shooting Oswalt instead of Ruby in the famous
pic. And, one of Joe at The Last Supper instead of you know who. He had his purple nike jacket and arms raised. Was pretty funny
because in 75 years everybody that was associated with the report in any fashion is supposed to be dead as to not be able to comment on it would be my bet.
That bit was priceless. The subtle part of it was that Neuman (Wayne Knight) was the one that was in the JFK movie scene.
Flawed logic. The official report was ALREADY released. They were all alive when the report was released. They were able to comment on the issued report for decades.
My conclusion is the sealed report is different than the original report. If it is the same then there was really no point in sealing it.
I think the more important question here is what happened to Art's post? could it be possible that he posted incorrect info?And, where were you on Nov 22nd, 1963? Any alibi??
I took it down because crm114 posted better info. I was going by the standard 91 carcano and, per the Warren Report, Oswald used a variation.
Wow. That goes back...I actually posted to that thread. Had Joe running from the Hindenburg disaster. Great stuff on that board.
A group of Dallas Police Department detectives, including Will Fritz, Seymour Weitzman, Roger Craig, Eugene Boone and Luke Mooney searched the Texas School Book Depository soon after the assassination of John F. Kennedy. On the sixth floor they discovered a rifle hidden beneath some boxes. The detectives identified it as a 7.65 Mauser. District Attorney Henry M. Wade, in a television interview, told the nation that the rifle was a Mauser. It was the FBI who announced that the officers had been mistaken. According to them it was a 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano, an Italian bolt-action rifle used in the Second World War. All the detectives agreed to change their mind about the rifle except Roger Craig.
The FBI discovered that the rifle had been purchased from Klein's sporting goods in Chicago on 12th March, 1963, by a man using the name, A. J. Hiddell. When Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested he was carrying a forged identity card bearing the name Alek J. Hiddell. A palm print taken from the barrel of the rifle was identified as belonging to Oswald.
It was during the month of March 1963 that Oswald obtained a rifle and a handgun, if we can rely on Marina's testimony. Not that it is greatly to be relied upon, as we saw earlier in discussion relating to an incriminating photograph in which both weapons were flaunted. Curiously, the weapons were bought, separately, under the name of A. J. Hidell, an alias which counted for little with Oswald other than in connection with the orders for the firearms. There was no reason whatever why Oswald should not have simply walked into a shop and bought what he wanted, obtaining the advantage and satisfaction of seeing what he was buying. Texas law imposed no control over the purchase of such weapons. There would have been very little - in fact virtually no - chance of Oswald being identified as the purchaser of the firearms had he bought them over the counter. So why did he buy them by mail order under this assumed name? There is strong evidence that the name was meaningful to those involved in intelligence. Army Intelligence, for instance, was known to have had a file on A. J. Hidell, the contents of which, significantly, were destroyed before it could be acquired by investigators.
It was not until the FBI said it had discovered that Oswald had purchased an Italian-made 6.5mm rifle from a Chicago mail-order house that the confusion was dispelled. Then all accounts and all sources agreed: The former .30 caliber-Enfield-7.65 Mauser was now a 6.5mm Italian-made rifle with telescopic sight. It was also at this time that all sources began agreeing that the gun had been found on the sixth floor - though some still held out for the open-window location, while others argued for the buried-behind-the-boxes theory.
During a thorough search of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository a rifle was found. Unhappily for the Warren Commissioners, the four police officers present at the time it was discovered, unanimously identified it as a German 7.65 Mauser. Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone found the rifle following the movement of book boxes by Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney and called Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman to witness his discovery. Another Deputy Sheriff, Roger Craig, was thereabouts and he saw the gun and heard the conversations of the others. The officers had no doubts about their identification and affidavits were drawn up by Boone and Weitzman, who described the weapon in detail, noting the colour of the sling and the scope. Police Captain Will Fritz was also present at the scene and he, also, is claimed to have agreed that the rifle was a 7.65 Mauser. Following the finding of the gun, however, it was collected by Lieutenant. C. Day and taken to Police Headquarters, where it was logged as a 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano, an Italian carbine, bearing the serial number C2766. Mannlicher-Carcano Italian carbine No. C2766, it was claimed, belonged to Lee Harvey Oswald.
Those concerned with the finding of the rifle at the Book Depository and who had written affidavits, Boone and Weitzman, were pressed, under questioning by the Commission, to review their identification of it. The Mannlicher-Carcano, at first glance, looked very much like 7.65 Mauser, it is true. How would they account, though, for a situation in which they had been close enough to describe the colour of the sling and yet had made an error in identifying the rifle itself? After all, the Mannlicher-Carcano bears the legend 'Made in Italy' on the butt, whereas the German gun has the name 'Mauser' stamped on the barrel! Were these officers unable to read? In spite of any argument which might be brought to bear, they both, nonetheless, changed their testimony and conceded they had made a mistake.
Young Roger Craig, who saw and heard all that had gone on in the Book Depository, refused to concede that he had been mistaken, or even that he might have been.
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKSmannlicher.htm
The FBI discovered that the rifle had been purchased from Klein's sporting goods in Chicago on 12th March, 1963, by a man using the name, A. J. Hiddell. When Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested he was carrying a forged identity card bearing the name Alek J. Hiddell. A palm print taken from the barrel of the rifle was identified as belonging to Oswald.
It was during the month of March 1963 that Oswald obtained a rifle and a handgun, if we can rely on Marina's testimony. Not that it is greatly to be relied upon, as we saw earlier in discussion relating to an incriminating photograph in which both weapons were flaunted. Curiously, the weapons were bought, separately, under the name of A. J. Hidell, an alias which counted for little with Oswald other than in connection with the orders for the firearms. There was no reason whatever why Oswald should not have simply walked into a shop and bought what he wanted, obtaining the advantage and satisfaction of seeing what he was buying. Texas law imposed no control over the purchase of such weapons. There would have been very little - in fact virtually no - chance of Oswald being identified as the purchaser of the firearms had he bought them over the counter. So why did he buy them by mail order under this assumed name? There is strong evidence that the name was meaningful to those involved in intelligence. Army Intelligence, for instance, was known to have had a file on A. J. Hidell, the contents of which, significantly, were destroyed before it could be acquired by investigators.
It was not until the FBI said it had discovered that Oswald had purchased an Italian-made 6.5mm rifle from a Chicago mail-order house that the confusion was dispelled. Then all accounts and all sources agreed: The former .30 caliber-Enfield-7.65 Mauser was now a 6.5mm Italian-made rifle with telescopic sight. It was also at this time that all sources began agreeing that the gun had been found on the sixth floor - though some still held out for the open-window location, while others argued for the buried-behind-the-boxes theory.
During a thorough search of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository a rifle was found. Unhappily for the Warren Commissioners, the four police officers present at the time it was discovered, unanimously identified it as a German 7.65 Mauser. Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone found the rifle following the movement of book boxes by Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney and called Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman to witness his discovery. Another Deputy Sheriff, Roger Craig, was thereabouts and he saw the gun and heard the conversations of the others. The officers had no doubts about their identification and affidavits were drawn up by Boone and Weitzman, who described the weapon in detail, noting the colour of the sling and the scope. Police Captain Will Fritz was also present at the scene and he, also, is claimed to have agreed that the rifle was a 7.65 Mauser. Following the finding of the gun, however, it was collected by Lieutenant. C. Day and taken to Police Headquarters, where it was logged as a 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano, an Italian carbine, bearing the serial number C2766. Mannlicher-Carcano Italian carbine No. C2766, it was claimed, belonged to Lee Harvey Oswald.
Those concerned with the finding of the rifle at the Book Depository and who had written affidavits, Boone and Weitzman, were pressed, under questioning by the Commission, to review their identification of it. The Mannlicher-Carcano, at first glance, looked very much like 7.65 Mauser, it is true. How would they account, though, for a situation in which they had been close enough to describe the colour of the sling and yet had made an error in identifying the rifle itself? After all, the Mannlicher-Carcano bears the legend 'Made in Italy' on the butt, whereas the German gun has the name 'Mauser' stamped on the barrel! Were these officers unable to read? In spite of any argument which might be brought to bear, they both, nonetheless, changed their testimony and conceded they had made a mistake.
Young Roger Craig, who saw and heard all that had gone on in the Book Depository, refused to concede that he had been mistaken, or even that he might have been.
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKSmannlicher.htm
The actual gun was a failure for the Italian army. It was poorly designed and not very accurate due to inferior manufacturing and loose tolerances. However, the 6.5 mm cartridge was a thing of genius. It's deadly up to 1000 yards and hits and maintains velocities that almost defy science. Also, the 6.5 mm cartridge is what most international snipers use today.
Not sure if your referring to me and my original post. I am looking for information about that rifle and that was all I was looking for from the board. Were you referring to me?
Well some of the guys gave some good information. Have we argued on YouTube because your name seems familiar. I am fascinated by the whole incident as I think you know and just am trying to educate myself more. I have a strong opinion but I realize I could be mistaken about some things. If we believe we are right about everything we most assuradly are wrong about plenty.
No problem. Deleted my own post because someone provided better, accurate information. Figured there was no point in having garbage, my own, in the thread.
The 6.5 cartridges produced by Italian munitions makers for the 91 Carcano was a major reason for the guns failures. Common to find different powder grades within the same clip. The 6.5 Lapua is a long way from the '30s-'40s vintage Modellos.
Snipers from NATO nations are pretty much free to chose their own weapons, with 6.5 and 50BMG as the most popular calibers.
Nope I've never made a YouTube comment in my life and I don't know a ton about the JFK assassination. I've just always been fascinated by the question of who ordered Ruby to kill Oswald. In my opinion it definitively disproves the idea that Oswald acted alone. Did any of the recently released files turn out to be revelatory?
And Jay Powell is causing the stock market to tank. Ooops, wrong religion; it's still Janet Yellen's fault.
Ruby decided to kill Oswald because he loved JFK and he was an unstable guy. Right before he shot Oswald he was at the Western Union (or whatever the place to wire money was called) and he was wiring money to one of his dancers, who needed money because she didn't earn any that weekend at Ruby's clubs because Ruby closed his clubs that weekend out of respect for JFK.
When Ruby got to Western Union there was one person ahead of him. He waited his turn, wired money to his dancer, walked over to where Oswald was being transferred and shot him a minute or so after he (Ruby) arrived. If there had been 2 or 3 or 4 people ahead of him in line at the Western Union instead of just 1 then he'd have still been waiting in line at Western Union when Oswald was transferred.
Ruby brought his favorite dog with him (he had several). He left it in his car.
When someone is planning on assassinating someone, who brings their dog with them and then stops at Western Union on the way? It was spur of the moment.
Plus the Oswald transfer was delayed. If he was acting on some kind of orders to kill Oswald, he would have been waaayyyy late.
That's a good thing about this board, you wait long enough and you'll find someone to make your point better than you ever could.
"A group of Dallas Police Department detectives, including Will Fritz, Seymour Weitzman, Roger Craig, Eugene Boone and Luke Mooney searched the Texas School Book Depository soon after the assassination of John F. Kennedy. On the sixth floor they discovered a rifle hidden beneath some boxes. The detectives identified it as a 7.65 Mauser. District Attorney Henry M. Wade, in a television interview, told the nation that the rifle was a Mauser."
But would the detectives have even touched or disturbed the rifle? One found it moving boxes, called another detective to witness the find. But if the gun is only partially exposed to them, they might not have seen the butt to check a stamp, and the serial # could be underneath and out of sight.
I don't know what police practices would have been in the early 60s, but if this was today, I doubt the detectives touch it and leave it in place for a forensics expert to recover it without disturbing any prints that might be present.
But would the detectives have even touched or disturbed the rifle? One found it moving boxes, called another detective to witness the find. But if the gun is only partially exposed to them, they might not have seen the butt to check a stamp, and the serial # could be underneath and out of sight.
I don't know what police practices would have been in the early 60s, but if this was today, I doubt the detectives touch it and leave it in place for a forensics expert to recover it without disturbing any prints that might be present.
I was wondering the same thing. Can I say pretty please, with cream and sugar on top?
Have any of you been to Dealey plaza? Very small area, amazing the grassy knoll and fence is right by the road...multiple buildings and their many windows provide many fields of fire. Crazy how the conspiracy was done. Fascinating stuff...
If you go to the museum on the 6th floor there, check out where the motorcade made the turn right in front of Oswald’s perch on the 6th floor. But the “lone shooter” didn’t shoot then when he had a clear shot at his target coming right towards him. Instead, he waited until the motorcade headed down the street away from Oswald’s window for a much tougher shot That part of the official story never made much sense to me.
When the motorcade was coming right for him the people he was shooting at and their bodyguards were looking straight back in the direction of Oswald too.
Also, when the motorcade was coming right for Oswald there were people in JFK's car between Oswald and JFK.
OTOH, when JFK's car was going away from Oswald, people were looking away from Oswald. And also, JFK, in the back of his car, didn't have people between him and the Oswald at that time.
Oswald was on the 6th floor. Note when he shot JFK. It was not when JFK was close to the building Oswald was in because if you're on the 6th floor and shooting at someone on the ground that is close to your building then any movement they make means you have to move your rifle a lot. OTOH when they're farther away from you then you have to move your rifle less.
And if they're moving away from you and you have to pause a second, then the amount by which you have to adjust your rifle is small. OTOH, if they're coming towards you, like JFK was right after he made the 90 degree turn and starting right towards the Schoolbook Depository, then if you have to pause a second then the amount by which you have to adjust your rifle is larger because they're coming closer and closer to the base of your building, while you're on the 6th floor looking down.
Here is Dealey Plaza.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?...607987936621626211&selectedIndex=1&ajaxhist=0
