If and when the BIG expands
- Thread starter sammyk
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I'm not sure what you're getting at. Cable companies would like to charge for channels people don't watch and for a long time they were able to do so but things are gradually changing. Cable companies know it's happening but they can't stop it because they're facing more competition. It used to be "Screw the customer over because they have no other options" but more and more now it's "Treat customer nice because they have other options."
No more expansion, if they do though another Rutgers is preferable to more bluebloods tbh. There's only so many conference championships to go around. Winning it more than once every couple of decades would be nice. Call me selfish.
Targets the Big Ten Should go after (assuming SEC schools aren't leaving):
1) Texas
2) Notre Dame
3) FSU
4) GA Tech
5) UNC
6) Oklahoma
7) Kansas
8) USF (some might say UCF here, but the academics (particularly programs and rankings) approach relevance at USF, not so much at UCF).
9) Colorado
There's no combination of two schools in there that ends up disappointing. Even a mix of USF and Colorado has an enormous alumni presence ensuring acceptability. I live in South Florida. A ton of big ten transplants down here.
Texas and Notre Dame are the no-brainer two big fish. I don't see a whole lot of cultural fit with FSU, but as part of the ACC and their location in Florida there is some strategic worth. That said, they are pretty far away from population hubs in Florida. Not a whole lot of transplants near them. Tremendous brand for football though.
GA Tech and UNC have some pretty solid strategic value and cultural fit (particularly GA Tech). GA Tech also has the Atlanta market, where again there is a sizable big ten alumni presence.
Oklahoma - Great football brand. Not so great at everything else.
Kansas - Great Basketball brand. Not so good at everything else.
USF doesn't have the academic profile you'd normally like to see, but its up and coming academically. They have some solid programs in a place (Tampa) littered with big ten alumni. Phenomenal recruiting ground. If they can improve the academic reputation (the programs are actually pretty solid), they might be a sneaky good fit.
Colorado is an institutional fit, but from a football perspective, doesn't move the needle too much. Decent market, but not great recruiting ground. Decent alumni connection.
1) Texas
2) Notre Dame
3) FSU
4) GA Tech
5) UNC
6) Oklahoma
7) Kansas
8) USF (some might say UCF here, but the academics (particularly programs and rankings) approach relevance at USF, not so much at UCF).
9) Colorado
There's no combination of two schools in there that ends up disappointing. Even a mix of USF and Colorado has an enormous alumni presence ensuring acceptability. I live in South Florida. A ton of big ten transplants down here.
Texas and Notre Dame are the no-brainer two big fish. I don't see a whole lot of cultural fit with FSU, but as part of the ACC and their location in Florida there is some strategic worth. That said, they are pretty far away from population hubs in Florida. Not a whole lot of transplants near them. Tremendous brand for football though.
GA Tech and UNC have some pretty solid strategic value and cultural fit (particularly GA Tech). GA Tech also has the Atlanta market, where again there is a sizable big ten alumni presence.
Oklahoma - Great football brand. Not so great at everything else.
Kansas - Great Basketball brand. Not so good at everything else.
USF doesn't have the academic profile you'd normally like to see, but its up and coming academically. They have some solid programs in a place (Tampa) littered with big ten alumni. Phenomenal recruiting ground. If they can improve the academic reputation (the programs are actually pretty solid), they might be a sneaky good fit.
Colorado is an institutional fit, but from a football perspective, doesn't move the needle too much. Decent market, but not great recruiting ground. Decent alumni connection.
After LA and San Fran, Denver has the largest B1G alumni population of cities not already in the B1G footprint.
Realistically, just curious why Boston College is never mentioned. Northeast team in larger market. Fits into east nicely. I know they are locked into ACC and Texas and Oklahoma are much better options...just curious.
BC football doesn't have a particularly large following in the Boston Metro area as the ACC has become painfully aware.
No one should be mentioning ACC Schools whatsoever at this point. The conference is locked up into the 2030's with a very substantial media rights deal that no one is getting out of including ND.
JMO but The B1G blew it by targeting UVA and UNC when things were heating up in 2012. Going after two founding ACC Members whose entire athletic identities are tied to the conference was a bad move. The B1G should have made a power play for VPI and GT. Both schools are solid in academics, located in populous states for TV and recruiting, and most important would have been receptive to the financial package The B1G was offering up at the time. Money is never going to be a key factor for wealthy schools like UNC or UVA.
Realistically I'd say the final schools will likely come from The Big 12. I'll go with Oklahoma and Kansas to the West with Purdue moving to the East. If the conference goes beyond 16 teams then schools like Colorado, Connecticut, or Missouri could become potential options. I can't see any of the directional Florida Schools, or any city schools like Houston ever being given serious consideration. Obviously Texas if interested would be in, but I see no scenario where they cede authority to anyone.
JMO but The B1G blew it by targeting UVA and UNC when things were heating up in 2012. Going after two founding ACC Members whose entire athletic identities are tied to the conference was a bad move. The B1G should have made a power play for VPI and GT. Both schools are solid in academics, located in populous states for TV and recruiting, and most important would have been receptive to the financial package The B1G was offering up at the time. Money is never going to be a key factor for wealthy schools like UNC or UVA.
Realistically I'd say the final schools will likely come from The Big 12. I'll go with Oklahoma and Kansas to the West with Purdue moving to the East. If the conference goes beyond 16 teams then schools like Colorado, Connecticut, or Missouri could become potential options. I can't see any of the directional Florida Schools, or any city schools like Houston ever being given serious consideration. Obviously Texas if interested would be in, but I see no scenario where they cede authority to anyone.
Never going to happen...and there aren't too many teams. 16 can work but there's pretty much no difference between 12 and 14
I'd rather win an elite conference any day than an average one even if it is less often
I know they dont fit the $analysis, but cant we bring poor WVU home.
They have no business traveling halfway cross country to play those teams.
Besides, wouldnt you Pitt haters enjoy seeing us add WVU but not Pitt.
They have no business traveling halfway cross country to play those teams.
Besides, wouldnt you Pitt haters enjoy seeing us add WVU but not Pitt.
New England doesn't care about college ball. It's all Patriot's/NFL there - I lived there for 7 years recently.
I agree. I get the nose-in-the-air argument about academics and the fact West Virginia isn't a high population state but they'd be a geographic home run. Their sports programs would fit in with the B1G although there are some they don't offer which the most of other conference members do. They have a devoted fanbase too unlike, well, Pitt.
Texas, ND, and UNC and throw away the rest.Colorado would be an excellent choice, but they're very happy in the Pac12.
Too early for UCF and USF, though they're both on a positive trajectory. If they can sustain it, either would be intriguing choices. And don't worry about academics. All you need to know is that the Big Ten admitted Nebraska.
No to mega-conferences. Set up shop regionally...no reason whatsoever that a midwestern conference should include a school in metro NYC, DC, or in PA for that matter. The best thing would be for the b1g to kick US out.
We need the Big Ten regardless of what our fan base believes. Regional conferences are honestly outdated--especially for football. I wish football would create their own conferences and allow basketball, hockey, Olympic sports, etc to create their own conferences.
We don't need Texans in the Big 10. We already have enough arrogant bozos with Michigan.
Funny, until 15 years ago, no one there cared about the Patriots either. Red Sox, Bruins and Celtics -- absolutely. Patriots were an afterthought until they got good.
Well.....since precedent was set back in latter 2011 when the Pres. of MSU, among many others, sought to expel PSU due to the man not to be named's crimes I expect to soon learn of the Big10 conference decision to expel MSU and OSU for their endemic and systemic lack of institutional control on a generational basis (and much, much more) as judged by media, sports show hosts and several fans chipping in via social media. Actually, OSU should only receive probation as I seem to remember some support toward PSU during our recent unpleasantness. Rutgers could take their place - just because they are Rutgers. MSU, boot'em.Sure, kick out two founding members. Makes sense to me.
So the Big is going to need several more teams than anticipated. Of course, the fines to be paid from the offending institutions will be a boon to the search for more conference members and/or fines to be imposed as were on PSU will make conference coffers overflow. Possibly they could remain as probationary members, not to share in conference remuneration as penance for their corporate indiscretions.
Oh, the opportunities for satire given the hypocrisies of 2011-12 up to and including today which PSU teams and fans have faced and been forced to endure. Enjoy!
I don't understand the love for Kansas they suck in a lot of sports and do not bring in a lot of $$$$$ or TV sets small population state as well. And yes I did bring up Houston before but 105-53 record in football in 12 years is pretty good in football and expanding in sports should not be a problem. The $$$$$$$ they could bring in is more than schools like Kansas and one argument is correct , $$$$$$$>academics. Expansion will happen and the ACC is pretty much off limits, if push comes to shove Notre Dame will end up there so all they need will be one more team maybe Temple or Navy. SEC schools are not leaving the SEC. The PAC will also expand , UNLV will be a target and possibly a few more schools, so that leaves the Big 12 possibly and the only true big fish is Texas and there is no way Texas is giving up the Longhorn network. I see the Big 12 expanding anyway with the likes of BYU, Colorado State ,Air Force Memphis(who has a huge upside) The Florida's Central and South Cincy. So that leaves the AAC and Conf USA and Mtn West schools for the ACC, BIG, SEC, Big 12 and PAC to expand with. And the population shifts are in places like Texas Florida , the South not Kansas and Oklahoma. School like Houston, Memphis S.Florida, C. Florida , ECU are like buying stock cheap that has a very high return potential
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You brought up a very important sport: wrestling. Each of B1G’s members has wrestling, and B1G is the most prominent wrestling conference.
Any addition will need to have wrestling or a plan to start it. And, with Title IX, that’s easier said than done.
Readmit U of Chicago for that crosstown bloodlust with Northwestern.
And to give Rutgers a chance for an occasional win on the schedule.
And to give Rutgers a chance for an occasional win on the schedule.
Missouri openly lobbied for B1G admission prior to joining the SEC. The B1G wasn't interested at all, which was a little surprising to me, because they have two solid markets.
Those deals have already been negotiated. Anyone who believes that Verizon, Comcast, Cablevision, Spectrum et al are paying a significant premium for carriage rights in the NYC Metro is mistaken.
With the way TV is going - markets don't matter nearly as much.
Brand names will matter more. Take Nebraska. They aren't in a major market. They indirectly solidified an 'existing state'. Missouri is in no danger of dropping the BTN from either major market (STL for ILL and KC for NEB) even though both universities aren't close to the cities.
Look at the SEC. it is an easier sell because there are name programs up and down the slate (regardless of how good the teams are each season). When there are 7-8 'name programs' Florida/Georgia/Tennessee/Bama/Auburn/A&M/LSU - it almost assures one or more will be on the network. People outside the market will watch those teams cause they know them.
After PSU/OSU/Nebraska/UM - the BIG doesn't have many major name teams. Iowa/Wiscy/MSU are close - but they don't move the needle outside the BIG footprint when they aren't top 10-15. After that - the BIG has nobody.
If/When expansion comes around - I'd expect these teams to be heavily considered.
Texas/Oklahoma - for obvious reasons.
Colorado - they might not be great now - but helps in many ways - they have a name that people recognize in football, they restore an old rivalry with Nebraska, it would help balance the west. I don't see them leaving the PAC though - their alumni base is in California and they fit the model - but money can change minds.
Missouri - yes they aren't a big name - but help bridge to OU - and would be a statement to take a team from the SEC. they are improving and will be a solid program.
Kansas - yest FB isn't a name - but Basketball is. They would also act as bridge to OU.
While I agree ACC teams are less likely due to GOR - all contracts are meant to be broken. If it is a great long term fit - the BIG could get creative to help make programs whole during the transition (ie. the BIG network payouts aren't technically tv deals as each team has equity rights and are profits/etc).
Duke/UNC - they would have to be a combo. it would boost basketball. FB programs are solid but not great.
Clemson - Because if you are going after the ACC - this is the team to get
FSU/Miami - Florida - and both are major names.
I know Basketball doesn't 'payout' as much as football - but again this is directly related to the old model. as models shift - what is to prevent the BIG from not signing a deal with ESPN/CBS for basketball except for a few games a week (for exposure) and putting the rest on the BTN. Imagine the only way for fans to see Kansas/Duke/UNC basektball would to pay for the BTN. Combined with OSU/Indiana/Michigan/Purdue/etc basketball where 95% of the content is only on the BTN - it would create national demand which when combined with a reasonable fee - assuming it is under 50-100 dollars most sports fans would buy it.
Brand names will matter more. Take Nebraska. They aren't in a major market. They indirectly solidified an 'existing state'. Missouri is in no danger of dropping the BTN from either major market (STL for ILL and KC for NEB) even though both universities aren't close to the cities.
Look at the SEC. it is an easier sell because there are name programs up and down the slate (regardless of how good the teams are each season). When there are 7-8 'name programs' Florida/Georgia/Tennessee/Bama/Auburn/A&M/LSU - it almost assures one or more will be on the network. People outside the market will watch those teams cause they know them.
After PSU/OSU/Nebraska/UM - the BIG doesn't have many major name teams. Iowa/Wiscy/MSU are close - but they don't move the needle outside the BIG footprint when they aren't top 10-15. After that - the BIG has nobody.
If/When expansion comes around - I'd expect these teams to be heavily considered.
Texas/Oklahoma - for obvious reasons.
Colorado - they might not be great now - but helps in many ways - they have a name that people recognize in football, they restore an old rivalry with Nebraska, it would help balance the west. I don't see them leaving the PAC though - their alumni base is in California and they fit the model - but money can change minds.
Missouri - yes they aren't a big name - but help bridge to OU - and would be a statement to take a team from the SEC. they are improving and will be a solid program.
Kansas - yest FB isn't a name - but Basketball is. They would also act as bridge to OU.
While I agree ACC teams are less likely due to GOR - all contracts are meant to be broken. If it is a great long term fit - the BIG could get creative to help make programs whole during the transition (ie. the BIG network payouts aren't technically tv deals as each team has equity rights and are profits/etc).
Duke/UNC - they would have to be a combo. it would boost basketball. FB programs are solid but not great.
Clemson - Because if you are going after the ACC - this is the team to get
FSU/Miami - Florida - and both are major names.
I know Basketball doesn't 'payout' as much as football - but again this is directly related to the old model. as models shift - what is to prevent the BIG from not signing a deal with ESPN/CBS for basketball except for a few games a week (for exposure) and putting the rest on the BTN. Imagine the only way for fans to see Kansas/Duke/UNC basektball would to pay for the BTN. Combined with OSU/Indiana/Michigan/Purdue/etc basketball where 95% of the content is only on the BTN - it would create national demand which when combined with a reasonable fee - assuming it is under 50-100 dollars most sports fans would buy it.
Never came up when the Big Ten courted ND and Texas. Wrestling is a money loser and it's not going to get in the way of the opportunity to earn big bucks.
I think Missouri's mistake was openly lobbying. At the time I don't think the B1G felt Nebraska had any intention of leaving the Big XII. The Huskers may have felt if Missouri did make he move, the future of the Big XII may have been bleak since Colorado bailed too. Nebraska made back channel contact with the B1G and said, "Let's talk". Nebraska is a much bigger brand name and thus was more appealing to the B1G.
If Missouri kept all contact with the B1G on the down low, Nebraska wouldn't have had a reason to worry about the Big XII falling apart. If the B1G and Mizzou were then able to have an agreement it would have been a surprise to everyone and Nebraska wouldn't have had the chance to throw the cock block.
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