How to scheme for McSorley

[tboyer]

Still can't put my finger on why McSorley's accuracy was down for this game. The Pitt DL did not get a ton of pressure on him. Could just be a blip on the radar.

There's been a lot of comment on McSorley's bad day, and maybe he was just off. But I think it had more to do with the design of the Pitt D than people are realizing.

The way Pitt played McSorley I think is going to be what a lot of defenses do this year.

Trace is actually brilliant with a disintegrating pocket and defenders flying at him, he thrives on that. He runs outside or steps up inside, sees the field and makes plays. He eats chaos for breakfast.

His weakness is actually if he's contained in a small pocket, because he's not tall, he can't see the field.

The play early where he missed a wide open Barkley deep middle was an example of this. Trace just couldn't see over the mass of players to his right, so he tried to scramble left but there was no room, and ended up throwing the ball away. It was the wrong choice -- if he'd scrambled outside right he would have had Barkley for an easy TD.

This is somewhat similar to what happened to Zach Mills in his second year as a starter. Teams didn't focus on sacking him so much as containing him. If Mills couldn't use his legs he wasn't as good at seeing receivers and throwing the ball.

If you contain McSorley to a small, gradually collapsing pocket, then his lack of height does become a liability becuase he can't see the field and he will have balls batted down.

Obviously the PSU coaches are well aware of this dynamic and Penn State's Oline blocking schemes are designed to create scrambling/passing lanes. But Pitt was beating the PSU O-line at that part of the game and hemming in McSorley on Saturday.

And that's why he wasn't seeing the field all that well, and wasn't throwing with the confidence he usually displays.

(Contrast this with the Badgers - who were trying for sacks instead of containment, so McSorley was stepping up and toasting their secondary)

 

[Nashville Lion]

Keep this in mind...regardless of what anyone will say...this game meant a lot to McSorley. Not because it was Pitt but because of what Tony Dorsett did to him last year. I guarantee you there was not a day that went by that he did not think about what an a$$ Dorsett made of himself. He wanted this game badly. As a result, Trace was antsy, and he pressed. He needs to relax and the plays and passes will come naturally.

 

[Obliviax]

There's been a lot of comment on McSorley's bad day, and maybe he was just off. But I think it had more to do with the design of the Pitt D than people are realizing.

The way Pitt played McSorley I think is going to be what a lot of defenses do this year.

Trace is actually brilliant with a disintegrating pocket and defenders flying at him, he thrives on that. He runs outside or steps up inside, sees the field and makes plays. He eats chaos for breakfast.

His weakness is actually if he's contained in a small pocket, because he's not tall, he can't see the field.

The play early where he missed a wide open Barkley deep middle was an example of this. Trace just couldn't see over the mass of players to his right, so he tried to scramble left but there was no room, and ended up throwing the ball away. It was the wrong choice -- if he'd scrambled outside right he would have had Barkley for an easy TD.

This is somewhat similar to what happened to Zach Mills in his second year as a starter. Teams didn't focus on sacking him so much as containing him. If Mills couldn't use his legs he wasn't as good at seeing receivers and throwing the ball.

If you contain McSorley to a small, gradually collapsing pocket, then his lack of height does become a liability becuase he can't see the field and he will have balls batted down.

Obviously the PSU coaches are well aware of this dynamic and Penn State's Oline blocking schemes are designed to create scrambling/passing lanes. But Pitt was beating the PSU O-line at that part of the game and hemming in McSorley on Saturday.

And that's why he wasn't seeing the field all that well, and wasn't throwing with the confidence he usually displays.

(Contrast this with the Badgers - who were trying for sacks instead of containment, so McSorley was stepping up and toasting their secondary)

Thanks...interesting. Seems rolling him out would be helpful. We don't seem to do a lot of that.

 

[tboyer]

Thanks...interesting. Seems rolling him out would be helpful. We don't seem to do a lot of that.

I agree, they haven't done much designed rollout, bootleg but I would think it would work well with Trace.

You do need to have the blocking worked out to do that well. You know it's in the playbook but maybe it hasn't been an emphasis. That's the kind of thing they could spend practice time on the next two weeks.

It seems really clear that Trace is a different QB if he gets to use his legs. If you can take his legs out of a game, he can look pretty ordinary as a QB. And really that's true of a lot of good dual-threat QBs -- Barrett's another great example.

 

[KnightSlayer]

I agree, they haven't done much designed rollout, bootleg but I would think it would work well with Trace.

You do need to have the blocking worked out to do that well. You know it's in the playbook but maybe it hasn't been an emphasis. That's the kind of thing they could spend practice time on the next two weeks.

It seems really clear that Trace is a different QB if he gets to use his legs. If you can take his legs out of a game, he can look pretty ordinary as a QB. And really that's true of a lot of good dual-threat QBs -- Barrett's another great example.

Do you consider his 8 carries for 65 yards taking his legs out of the game?

Last year

18/29 254yds 4TD 3 Int 6 carries 13 yards USC
22/31 384yds 4TD 0 int 6 carries -20yds Wisc
17/23 376yds 4TD 0 int 10 carries 13 yds MSU

 

[tboyer]

(deep breath) What I'm saying is if you contain him in the pocket on passing downs, he is less effective THROWING the ball. Better to contain him than try to sack him and have him get loose.

Pitt played positionally sound D. We will see something pretty similar schemewise at Iowa because they are a non-blitzing D that emphasizes positional discipline. And I'm not saying the outcome will be the same at Iowa -- just that the dynamic could be similar.

Obviously the QB draw and option running was still there. I think that one may have been the longest run of his career.

Do you consider his 8 carries for 65 yards taking his legs out of the game?

Last year

18/29 254yds 4TD 3 Int 6 carries 13 yards USC
22/31 384yds 4TD 0 int 6 carries -20yds Wisc
17/23 376yds 4TD 0 int 10 carries 13 yds MSU

 

[Elwood Blues]

Keep this in mind...regardless of what anyone will say...this game meant a lot to McSorley. Not because it was Pitt but because of what Tony Dorsett did to him last year. I guarantee you there was not a day that went by that he did not think about what an a$$ Dorsett made of himself. He wanted this game badly. As a result, Trace was antsy, and he pressed. He needs to relax and the plays and passes will come naturally.

"...what Tony Dorsett did to him...." I hadn't heard about the Dorsett thing, so I googled it and watched the video. I don't think some mild post game heckling a year ago had anything to do with Trace's slightly off play on Saturday. The kid was money in much higher pressure games late in the season. He didn't play his best Saturday. It happens. I expect he'll be better in every game this season.

 

[johnmpsu]

There's been a lot of comment on McSorley's bad day, and maybe he was just off. But I think it had more to do with the design of the Pitt D than people are realizing.

The way Pitt played McSorley I think is going to be what a lot of defenses do this year.

Trace is actually brilliant with a disintegrating pocket and defenders flying at him, he thrives on that. He runs outside or steps up inside, sees the field and makes plays. He eats chaos for breakfast.

His weakness is actually if he's contained in a small pocket, because he's not tall, he can't see the field.

The play early where he missed a wide open Barkley deep middle was an example of this. Trace just couldn't see over the mass of players to his right, so he tried to scramble left but there was no room, and ended up throwing the ball away. It was the wrong choice -- if he'd scrambled outside right he would have had Barkley for an easy TD.

This is somewhat similar to what happened to Zach Mills in his second year as a starter. Teams didn't focus on sacking him so much as containing him. If Mills couldn't use his legs he wasn't as good at seeing receivers and throwing the ball.

If you contain McSorley to a small, gradually collapsing pocket, then his lack of height does become a liability becuase he can't see the field and he will have balls batted down.

Obviously the PSU coaches are well aware of this dynamic and Penn State's Oline blocking schemes are designed to create scrambling/passing lanes. But Pitt was beating the PSU O-line at that part of the game and hemming in McSorley on Saturday.

And that's why he wasn't seeing the field all that well, and wasn't throwing with the confidence he usually displays.

(Contrast this with the Badgers - who were trying for sacks instead of containment, so McSorley was stepping up and toasting their secondary)

I would respectfully disagree. The accurate perception that McSorley had a bad day comes from the fact that he overthrew several wide open receivers. Obviously he was seeing those receivers. Did he fail to see a couple of receivers during the game? Sure but that happens to almost every quarterback every week. I think he is seeing just fine, he just had a bad day. Looked to me like a little to much adrenaline flowing, especially early in the game. If he makes the throws he usually makes early in the game he has a big day and the rout is on.

 

[tboyer]

I would respectfully disagree. The accurate perception that McSorley had a bad day comes from the fact that he overthrew several wide open receivers. Obviously he was seeing those receivers. Did he fail to see a couple of receivers during the game? Sure but that happens to almost every quarterback every week. I think he is seeing just fine, he just had a bad day. Looked to me like a little to much adrenaline flowing, especially early in the game. If he makes the throws he usually makes early in the game he has a big day and the rout is on.

You may be right. It was certainly uncharacteristic of him to not be accurate. It's just weird to see him have a bad day. He was a slow starter last year but he was so consistently sharp in the 2nd half.

I'm not big believer in good days or bad days. It's kind of like streak theory -- there are good statistical arguments that there is no such thing as a hot hitting or shooting streak -- it's just random variation.

I think the players do what they do, and fluctuations in performance have more to do with the opposition. Or sometimes health. Maybe McSorley was under the weather or banged up and hurting somewhere -- the latter we'd never know because he would hide it.

 

[BBrown]

There's been a lot of comment on McSorley's bad day, and maybe he was just off. But I think it had more to do with the design of the Pitt D than people are realizing.

The way Pitt played McSorley I think is going to be what a lot of defenses do this year.

Trace is actually brilliant with a disintegrating pocket and defenders flying at him, he thrives on that. He runs outside or steps up inside, sees the field and makes plays. He eats chaos for breakfast.

His weakness is actually if he's contained in a small pocket, because he's not tall, he can't see the field.

The play early where he missed a wide open Barkley deep middle was an example of this. Trace just couldn't see over the mass of players to his right, so he tried to scramble left but there was no room, and ended up throwing the ball away. It was the wrong choice -- if he'd scrambled outside right he would have had Barkley for an easy TD.

This is somewhat similar to what happened to Zach Mills in his second year as a starter. Teams didn't focus on sacking him so much as containing him. If Mills couldn't use his legs he wasn't as good at seeing receivers and throwing the ball.

If you contain McSorley to a small, gradually collapsing pocket, then his lack of height does become a liability becuase he can't see the field and he will have balls batted down.

Obviously the PSU coaches are well aware of this dynamic and Penn State's Oline blocking schemes are designed to create scrambling/passing lanes. But Pitt was beating the PSU O-line at that part of the game and hemming in McSorley on Saturday.

And that's why he wasn't seeing the field all that well, and wasn't throwing with the confidence he usually displays.

(Contrast this with the Badgers - who were trying for sacks instead of containment, so McSorley was stepping up and toasting their secondary)

Interesting thought. Well done.

 

[johnmpsu]

You may be right. It was certainly uncharacteristic of him to not be accurate. It's just weird to see him have a bad day. He was a slow starter last year but he was so consistently sharp in the 2nd half.

I'm not big believer in good days or bad days. It's kind of like streak theory -- there are good statistical arguments that there is no such thing as a hot hitting or shooting streak -- it's just random variation.

I think the players do what they do, and fluctuations in performance have more to do with the opposition. Or sometimes health. Maybe McSorley was under the weather or banged up and hurting somewhere -- the latter we'd never know because he would hide it.

He did say after the game that he felt nervous for this game. Nerves can certainly impact performance. I don't think there is any reason to not believe him.

 

[tboyer]

He did say after the game that he felt nervous for this game. Nerves can certainly impact performance. I don't think there is any reason to not believe him.

Interesting. This year is so different for the players because of the weight of expectations. It's great to have sky high expectations, it's the future for PSU. But the pressure becomes so much greater.

Last year they were traveling to Pittsburgh as underdogs and the loss didn't crush them, it motivated them. This year it was at home in front of a full stadium and to lose to those guys would have been pretty awful.

 

[lein]

He did say after the game that he felt nervous for this game. Nerves can certainly impact performance. I don't think there is any reason to not believe him.

That would explain the overthrows and it seemed he seemed to force the play rather than take what the play gave him (escaping the pocket when he didn't have to).

 

[PennStateTurf2002]

He said after the game he was too amped up. I don't know if it was the Dorset thing or something else that happened but from comments from Barkley, Allen, etc...you can tell these guys were ticked off about how things ended last year. McSorely has been best when the lights are brightest and for whatever pressure they put on themselves Saturday night, something really got under their skin last year.

The kid was overthrowing some wide open guys. In the second and third drive he could have put it away. I don't agree he needs to be scrambling and under pressure, kid just let some things get to him and he played an off half. He was still solid, made some big plays with his legs and some nice throws as well. He also settled in after half time.

First half
6 for 15 40% completion %
44 yards.
7 yds per comp

Second half
9 for 13 70% completion %
120 yards
13 and change yards per completion.

I wouldn't get all worried and try to pinpoint a reason why. He just played a not great half.

 

[Obliviax]

"...what Tony Dorsett did to him...." I hadn't heard about the Dorsett thing, so I googled it and watched the video. I don't think some mild post game heckling a year ago had anything to do with Trace's slightly off play on Saturday. The kid was money in much higher pressure games late in the season. He didn't play his best Saturday. It happens. I expect he'll be better in every game this season.

...and...he really didn't play all that badly. He really missed on two throws...and I mean overthrowing a wide open guy. Others were off but not horribly. He also made some nice throws. But it is not what we've become used to with McS. He's typically very, very accurate. and as much as we want to bash Pitt's HC, he's shown that he's a pretty darn good game planning and game day coach.

 

[tboyer]

...and...he really didn't play all that badly. He really missed on two throws...and I mean overthrowing a wide open guy. Others were off but not horribly.

+1 A bad day for some QBs (Wilton Speight) is 3 picks and 2 fumbles. TM's only INT really shouldn't be logged as an INT because it was a hail mary.

 

[Richard the LIONhearted]

Interesting. This year is so different for the players because of the weight of expectations. It's great to have sky high expectations, it's the future for PSU. But the pressure becomes so much greater.

Last year they were traveling to Pittsburgh as underdogs and the loss didn't crush them, it motivated them. This year it was at home in front of a full stadium and to lose to those guys would have been pretty awful.

I felt that way the entire game -- that if some how, some act of nature occured and Pitt was to some way win that game, it would have been an epic disaster. I honestly just wanted the game to be over those times right after PS would score and just to get out of there. It was an unusual feeling.....

 

[PennStateTurf2002]

Very true by the way. They had a lot of pressure last year but it was almost like they played with house money at the end. It was a different pressure. Now everyone looks forward to when PSU comes up on schedule. We get everyone's best every time out. Everyones best crowds, best effort. Different getting ready for that every week vs last year. I think Franklin and staff can keep the kids focused.

 

[Obliviax]

I felt that way the entire game -- that if some how, some act of nature occured and Pitt was to some way win that game, it would have been an epic disaster. I honestly just wanted the game to be over those times right after PS would score and just to get out of there. It was an unusual feeling.....

Agree...and getting up 14 early really changed the game. PSU played a little more soft on Defense and less aggressively on offense. McS needed to manage the game. Even with that, a couple of key plays and it would have been a true blow out.

 

[olelion]

There's been a lot of comment on McSorley's bad day, and maybe he was just off. But I think it had more to do with the design of the Pitt D than people are realizing.

The way Pitt played McSorley I think is going to be what a lot of defenses do this year.

Trace is actually brilliant with a disintegrating pocket and defenders flying at him, he thrives on that. He runs outside or steps up inside, sees the field and makes plays. He eats chaos for breakfast.

His weakness is actually if he's contained in a small pocket, because he's not tall, he can't see the field.

The play early where he missed a wide open Barkley deep middle was an example of this. Trace just couldn't see over the mass of players to his right, so he tried to scramble left but there was no room, and ended up throwing the ball away. It was the wrong choice -- if he'd scrambled outside right he would have had Barkley for an easy TD.

This is somewhat similar to what happened to Zach Mills in his second year as a starter. Teams didn't focus on sacking him so much as containing him. If Mills couldn't use his legs he wasn't as good at seeing receivers and throwing the ball.

If you contain McSorley to a small, gradually collapsing pocket, then his lack of height does become a liability becuase he can't see the field and he will have balls batted down.

Obviously the PSU coaches are well aware of this dynamic and Penn State's Oline blocking schemes are designed to create scrambling/passing lanes. But Pitt was beating the PSU O-line at that part of the game and hemming in McSorley on Saturday.

And that's why he wasn't seeing the field all that well, and wasn't throwing with the confidence he usually displays.

(Contrast this with the Badgers - who were trying for sacks instead of containment, so McSorley was stepping up and toasting their secondary)

I guess I'm just not too worried yet. The game was very boring to watch and it didn't seem as though the desired tempo was ever reached. I credit Pitt's game planning. When you get out schemed you need the big play(s).......interceptions, the Barkley TD pass etc. Hopefully, the next time they see this scheme, they counter punch with a prepared response.

 

[ColinPSU]

Obviously the PSU coaches are well aware of this dynamic and Penn State's Oline blocking schemes are designed to create scrambling/passing lanes. But Pitt was beating the PSU O-line at that part of the game and hemming in McSorley on Saturday.

(Contrast this with the Badgers - who were trying for sacks instead of containment, so McSorley was stepping up and toasting their secondary)

Another note about defenses playing us: Saturday, Pitt had a lot of success utilizing "ninja" fronts where there are only one or two DL in a three point stance. This is confusing for a OL because they don't know which guys are rushing.

Clip: Pitt only rushes 4 but just the alignment messes with our 6 blockers.


Wiscy also did this A LOT in the B1G championship. While we won that game, I think it really is messing with the blocking schemes.

Clip: they stem after our lookback audible - they actually only rush 4 against out 6 but still get pressure.


I expect teams will be doing a lot more "ninja" fronts and only rushing 4 while leaving 7 in zone coverage. I worry about Michigan - whose defense played very well on Saturday. They love running these types of pressure packages out of Brown's Red Raider defense.

 

[AvgPennStateFan]

There's been a lot of comment on McSorley's bad day, and maybe he was just off. But I think it had more to do with the design of the Pitt D than people are realizing.

The way Pitt played McSorley I think is going to be what a lot of defenses do this year.

Trace is actually brilliant with a disintegrating pocket and defenders flying at him, he thrives on that. He runs outside or steps up inside, sees the field and makes plays. He eats chaos for breakfast.

His weakness is actually if he's contained in a small pocket, because he's not tall, he can't see the field.

The play early where he missed a wide open Barkley deep middle was an example of this. Trace just couldn't see over the mass of players to his right, so he tried to scramble left but there was no room, and ended up throwing the ball away. It was the wrong choice -- if he'd scrambled outside right he would have had Barkley for an easy TD.

This is somewhat similar to what happened to Zach Mills in his second year as a starter. Teams didn't focus on sacking him so much as containing him. If Mills couldn't use his legs he wasn't as good at seeing receivers and throwing the ball.

If you contain McSorley to a small, gradually collapsing pocket, then his lack of height does become a liability becuase he can't see the field and he will have balls batted down.

Obviously the PSU coaches are well aware of this dynamic and Penn State's Oline blocking schemes are designed to create scrambling/passing lanes. But Pitt was beating the PSU O-line at that part of the game and hemming in McSorley on Saturday.

And that's why he wasn't seeing the field all that well, and wasn't throwing with the confidence he usually displays.

(Contrast this with the Badgers - who were trying for sacks instead of containment, so McSorley was stepping up and toasting their secondary)

That's great analysis.. I was wondering why he just kepy running into outside containment instead of settling in the pocket. Didn't think of the height issue but I bet you're right

 

[BoulderFish]

There's been a lot of comment on McSorley's bad day, and maybe he was just off. But I think it had more to do with the design of the Pitt D than people are realizing.

The way Pitt played McSorley I think is going to be what a lot of defenses do this year.

Trace is actually brilliant with a disintegrating pocket and defenders flying at him, he thrives on that. He runs outside or steps up inside, sees the field and makes plays. He eats chaos for breakfast.

His weakness is actually if he's contained in a small pocket, because he's not tall, he can't see the field.

The play early where he missed a wide open Barkley deep middle was an example of this. Trace just couldn't see over the mass of players to his right, so he tried to scramble left but there was no room, and ended up throwing the ball away. It was the wrong choice -- if he'd scrambled outside right he would have had Barkley for an easy TD.

This is somewhat similar to what happened to Zach Mills in his second year as a starter. Teams didn't focus on sacking him so much as containing him. If Mills couldn't use his legs he wasn't as good at seeing receivers and throwing the ball.

If you contain McSorley to a small, gradually collapsing pocket, then his lack of height does become a liability becuase he can't see the field and he will have balls batted down.

Obviously the PSU coaches are well aware of this dynamic and Penn State's Oline blocking schemes are designed to create scrambling/passing lanes. But Pitt was beating the PSU O-line at that part of the game and hemming in McSorley on Saturday.

And that's why he wasn't seeing the field all that well, and wasn't throwing with the confidence he usually displays.

(Contrast this with the Badgers - who were trying for sacks instead of containment, so McSorley was stepping up and toasting their secondary)

Interesting thoughts, and I think there's probably some validity there (for what that's worth).

With that said, scheming your D-line to play that way is easier said than done, and I'm not sure it wasn't more accidental on Pitt's part than it was a game plan.

 

[BlueLion]

I guess I'm just not too worried yet. The game was very boring to watch and it didn't seem as though the desired tempo was ever reached. I credit Pitt's game planning. When you get out schemed you need the big play(s).......interceptions, the Barkley TD pass etc. Hopefully, the next time they see this scheme, they counter punch with a prepared response.

Pitt's scheme was to milk the clock and not get blown out. They had a 15 play, 31 yard drive that took over 8 minutes off the clock.
Pitt
4 PLAYS, 10 YARDS, 2:03

PSU
1 PLAY, 8 YARDS, 0:04

Pitt
3 PLAYS, 1 YARD, 1:19

PSU
3 PLAYS, 3 YARDS, 0:44

Pitt
5 PLAYS, 21 YARDS, 2:47

PSU
6 PLAYS, 62 YARDS, 2:43

Pitt
15 PLAYS, 31 YARDS, 8:02

PSU
5 PLAYS, 22 YARDS, 1:33

Pitt
5 PLAYS, 20 YARDS, 2:10

PSU
3 PLAYS, -5 YARDS, 1:53

Pitt
15 PLAYS, 77 YARDS, 5:30

PSU
6 PLAYS, 23 YARDS, 1:12

 

[bsmith51]

That's great analysis.. I was wondering why he just kepy running into outside containment instead of settling in the pocket. Didn't think of the height issue but I bet you're right

I don't think height is much of an issue. He has made most of his throws this year and last from the pocket and rarely has balls batted down. As our o line continues to get better and better, they will be able to stone teams that employ a controlled / contained type of rush. That will put there dbs in a tough situation by having to cover for long periods. The o line will also be able to blow back teams that utilize exotic fronts with less down lineman. I think TM juiced a few balls that he normally hits. It happens. Pitt also ran a good scheme and did a good job of limiting our possessions and getting us out of rythym with long drives. It is nice to have an off day and still win by 19 points.

 

[tboyer]

That's great analysis.. I was wondering why he just kepy running into outside containment instead of settling in the pocket. Didn't think of the height issue but I bet you're right

It's why he won't be an NFL prospect. He can't see over the shoulders of the linemen, let alone their helmets. At the college level I think his mobility more than makes up for it. But it's something they have to plan around.

It's an interesting situation -- the PSU OL will be so much better this year -- McSorley will have an actual pocket around him more. But he's also going to have to have viewing lanes.

 

[tboyer]

Interesting thoughts, and I think there's probably some validity there (for what that's worth).

With that said, scheming your D-line to play that way is easier said than done, and I'm not sure it wasn't more accidental on Pitt's part than it was a game plan.

Very possible. If you can't get to the QB at least you hold your position, keep contain and get your hands up in the air.