So she chose the wrong degree. Someone who wants to be a museum curator won't have wasted 4 years on an art degree.
"How the college debt debate shifted with one big idea"
- Thread starter BobPSU92
- Start date
So she chose the wrong degree. Someone who wants to be a museum curator won't have wasted 4 years on an art degree.
The issue with that analogy is that aggressively taxing families worth $50M+ is not illegal or even immoral. They’ll be okay.
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
It is highly immoral and in a nation that professes equality under the law, should also be illegal.
Yes. And an average starting salary for a 4-year degreed person was $25,000-30k.
Many things in 1988 were different than 2019, but it's all relative. Yes, we borrowed less, but we were paid less.
Of course not. But the choices are not the same. Students are forced to choose between doing what they want with the rest of their life and incurring huge debts, or doing something they don't want and spending their life unsatisfied. And why is that what they're forced to do? Because they generations before them screwed up the system.
The correct analogy would be: Would you borrow and repay a loan of $50,000 for a car worth $10,000 if the only other alternative is you have ride a horse instead.
I have a mortgage and I really do not think it's fair for me to re-pay this mortgage. It costs me a lot of money each month to pay a mortgage payment and it requires me to maintain a job. I think it's only fair for the government to bail us all out of our mortgage payments.
Give me a break if you don't think most $50M fortunes were amassed through plenty of inequality. I'm not talking about intentional, nefarious inequality, just inherent inequality. Our system is the best there is, but please spare me the idea every wealthy person just worked harder, and that's all that separates them from the corner drug dealer.
And the average salary for a new graduate now is somewhere around $50,000, or almost double what it was then.
Yet, annual tuition today is more than $18,000 at Penn State - six times what it was then.
Come on, you didn't even try to be fair here.
The average starting salary in 1988 (adjusted for inflation) was $50,856. As of 2015, it was $50,219. So the starting salary has not changed, when adjusted for inflation. Meanwhile, tuition at a public institution, adjusted for inflation, went from $3,190 in '87-'88, to $9,970 in '17-'18 (at private schools, it went from $15,160 to $34,740). So salary didn't change, but tuition tripled. That debt only compounds then when interest is tripled. Hence the millions of students barely paying their interest, when in the past it would've been eliminating their principal with the same payments.
Sources:
https://www.naceweb.org/job-market/...-starting-salaries-for-new-college-graduates/
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-has-increased-from-1988-to-2018.html
I agree with this. Part of what I do is private lending. I know if I make a bad loan, I will eat it, so I am careful. Wasteful colleges benefit from bad loans that cannot be discharged. Also, no good accrues to society in having 40 year-olds making $15 an hour being burdened with, say, $100000 of unpayable debt.
1. Yes tuition has skyrocketed
2. They dont understand how the interest affects their payments
3. The current kids do spend much more on social items than previous years.
I work with seniors going through this process every day. Its amazing how many of them have no idea how compound interest works, or their parents for that matter. I told them they could try getting a loan through a bank or credit union than pay the 5+% they get now.
I did a budget for a student assuming a 4 year state school college plan and job coming out at $3500/month pre tax, bring home was $2600. Estimated 50K in loans at 5% for 10 years was ~$530/month. Rent was $1000/month, insurance $200, utilities $250, etc. It didnt leave much room in a budget but it was amazing how easily they found money when you take apart their phone plan and their need for eating out 5 times a week, or drinking starbucks every day. Just the dunkin donuts/starbucks item kept an extra $50/week in their pockets. Driving a used car vs needing to buy a new one was another item. I couldn't believe how many kids had to have a new car or the newest IPhone or shoes,etc....
2. They dont understand how the interest affects their payments
3. The current kids do spend much more on social items than previous years.
I work with seniors going through this process every day. Its amazing how many of them have no idea how compound interest works, or their parents for that matter. I told them they could try getting a loan through a bank or credit union than pay the 5+% they get now.
I did a budget for a student assuming a 4 year state school college plan and job coming out at $3500/month pre tax, bring home was $2600. Estimated 50K in loans at 5% for 10 years was ~$530/month. Rent was $1000/month, insurance $200, utilities $250, etc. It didnt leave much room in a budget but it was amazing how easily they found money when you take apart their phone plan and their need for eating out 5 times a week, or drinking starbucks every day. Just the dunkin donuts/starbucks item kept an extra $50/week in their pockets. Driving a used car vs needing to buy a new one was another item. I couldn't believe how many kids had to have a new car or the newest IPhone or shoes,etc....
What difference does it make? You either believe in private property rights or you don't? You either believe in equality under the law or you don't. Please quit rationalizing institutional theft?
The discussion with @Kiber really illustrates the problem well.
In 1988, student graduates with $10k in debt, and an inflation adjusted salary of $50k. In five years, he pays back $15k, and he has paid off his loans and spends the next 10 years using the extra income he no longer has to pay on loans to buy a house, car, furniture, etc. He's now free to bitch at kids for being lazy in the future because he worked hard and paid it.
In 2018, student graduates with $30k in debt due to tripling of tuition costs, but still earns the same $50k. In five years, he pays back $15k. Except he was generating three times as much interest as the 1988 grad, so he still owes $23k. He pays another $15k the next 5 years, and still owes $12k. He pays another $15k the next 5 years to finally be debt free.
You don't see why this is a problem? You don't think that extra 10 years of having to make those payments causes delays in getting married, having children, buying houses, buying cars, etc? The things that make our economy go.
You don't think the generation running the public institutions and government that were spiking tuition and handing out the unregulated money, respectively, should be held responsible for correcting it? It should be the 18 year old who had to make a Sophie's choice because of those poor decisions of the prior generation?
In 1988, student graduates with $10k in debt, and an inflation adjusted salary of $50k. In five years, he pays back $15k, and he has paid off his loans and spends the next 10 years using the extra income he no longer has to pay on loans to buy a house, car, furniture, etc. He's now free to bitch at kids for being lazy in the future because he worked hard and paid it.
In 2018, student graduates with $30k in debt due to tripling of tuition costs, but still earns the same $50k. In five years, he pays back $15k. Except he was generating three times as much interest as the 1988 grad, so he still owes $23k. He pays another $15k the next 5 years, and still owes $12k. He pays another $15k the next 5 years to finally be debt free.
You don't see why this is a problem? You don't think that extra 10 years of having to make those payments causes delays in getting married, having children, buying houses, buying cars, etc? The things that make our economy go.
You don't think the generation running the public institutions and government that were spiking tuition and handing out the unregulated money, respectively, should be held responsible for correcting it? It should be the 18 year old who had to make a Sophie's choice because of those poor decisions of the prior generation?
Yes, it is amazing what our spoiled consumer society now considers necessities: Pricey phones, cable TV, new cars, the latest technology, eating out, designer coffee, expensive parties, toys and footwear for kids, etc. (I think that is because of the boomers, who were brought up during the most prosperous time in US history, and raised their kids as if such times would continue forever.)
Last edited:
This is true, but even in the plan you came up with, that's a person who will not be looking to get married and have kids and buy a house or car during that 10 years. This is why the average age for getting married and having kids keeps going up. We can't afford it. Which hurts our economy, and will only continue to hurt it more going forward. Having to spend 10-15-20 years repaying loans is going to kill our growth in the future.
Not a comparison in any way, but keep going if it makes you feel better.
WORSE DECISIONS?
How much is an EE major in debt tpday compared to 1980? How much has entry pay increased since 1980? What about rent?
Give that some thought and get back to me.
So... everything is equal like 1988? Rent? Pay?
What about those who graduated in 2008 through 2014? Is it THEIR fault they graduated during a depression?
I am skeptical about the proposed plan, but apparently many think society is a zero sum game when the fact is that a better society is good for all. The quality of a society is certainly not enhanced by encouraging inequality of opportunity and discouraging learning. The issue should be how to encourage all to fulfill their human potential. Of course, not everybody needs, wants or is qualified to get a degree. Your post and all the likes smack of a selfish "I got mine". (And you can have your 529 investments tax-free and keep any of the "socialistic" tax breaks you got on them - win-win.)
Last edited:
Well, if all things are equal, why can mortgages, auto loans and CC debt be discharged in bankruptcy but student loans can not?
Come on. Answer my question.
Why should Millennials be responsible for the BABY BOOMER generation that DELIBERATELY caused the 2008 meltdown?
Why don't Baby Boomers pay their fvxking bills????
You have data to support that assertion? Or, are you just whistling Dixie out your ass again?
It’s also a microcosm of the much larger problem that young people feel disproportionately: costs of living continue to rise in almost every aspect of life, student loans are higher, worker productivity continues to rise, profits continue to rise, and yet inflation-adjusted wages are the same as they were 30 years ago or are even lower than they were 30 years ago.
To a much larger point that I understand is unpopular here - if folks are wondering why young people today are further to the left economically than any generation in American history, this is a good snapshot as to why that could be.
Have not read one post talking about parents role in all of this. The Colleges and Universities are public enemy number one, but parenting is also a major issue. How many parents talk about college costs with their children prior to senior year when the student wants to attend a over-priced university to study "something?" There is nothing wrong with community college, commuter, or vocational schools when the student is uncertain of their path. Work ethic is more important than GPA. The curriculum is not preparing these students for real world. I am seeing this first-hand, when interviewing candidates. They major in the exact industry I serve and they have little to no knowledge - frightening. In fact, the dean openly said, "I don't know much about XXXX" - now I have to pay this kid to educate them?
Elizabeth Warren is another clueless politician that needs a reality check. CEO pay is a common talking point, what about the School administrators?
Elizabeth Warren is another clueless politician that needs a reality check. CEO pay is a common talking point, what about the School administrators?
If approved will the government be paying for just a bachelor degree or will they also be required to pay for Master's Law School, etc.? Why should some kids be forced into spending the rest of their lives unsatisfied with just a Bachelor's degree.
Life isn't a picnic and most of us don't get to do what we want to do because we do what we have to do for ourselves and our family.
During WW2, my uncle chose to join the Army in 1944 because his other choice was to continue mining coal with a pick and shovel, mostly on his knees. He had sh1tty choices, made one, and lived life.
My heart bleeds for those poor students and how tough they had it. They were not forced to make that choice and it isn't because someone else screwed up the system, but rather because life isn't always fair or just or comfortable. Tough. This country guarantees opportunity, not success; and certainly not success at the expense of others that didn't make the same bad decisions as you might have.
Of course. What value will a bachelor degree have once it is deemed a right and everybody has one?
Is it my fault???? My taxes are going to be increased to pay for this .... is it my fault??
BTW - check out the economy in the late 80's. It was NOT good. I was willing take take on any job, and actually held two jobs just to pay off my loans. I took a first job as a Financial analyst in my field of study. The entry level salary for a Financial Advisor for Rollins was $32,000. It barely paid my living expenses. I worked an evening / weekend job for almost 2 years paying off my car & student loans. Every penny I earned on my 2nd job went towards those loans.....
.... Now, I am being told 30 years later that I have to pay off some a$$-holes student loans who simply don't want tp pay them off and would rather sit in their parents basement or hang out at a Starbucks.
I wanted a house but that came with taking on massive debt. Renting apartments would leave me unsatisfied in life. Where is my help to eliminate my mortgage payments?
What I have is now considered politically incorrect. It's called 'common sense'.
"I got mine and I hope you can't get yours".
What's most discouraging to me is that every post here assumes that the ONLY value of education is to get a better job. Worse, most see it as just a ticket to be punched and consider any knowledge gained as irrelevant or incidental. While that is important, college grads should know that there are other benefits of education to society and the individual. I can only conclude that your education was lacking and your college tuition wasted - no wonder you are so misinformed and bitter.
Last edited:
I didn't cause it and my two kids graduated debt free. Instead of buying a McMansion, my ex and I paid off our home during the first semester of our oldest child.
You blame a generation for everything, but not everybody in my generation made irresponsible choices, either in life or at the ballot box.
PROVE IT!
Why do Millennials inherit a $23 Trillion debt CAUSED by Baby Boomers with a colossal $71 Trillion (ahem) OFF BALANCE SHEET liabilities?
Come on, tough guy. Is this ALL you GOT? Kids living in their parents basements?
What about wage stagnation, OUT OF POCKET healthcare costs, sky rocket rent, ability to remain on parents healthcare coverage, etc...
YOU are responsible for this.
And, you owe me $1500 for sharing this with you today. I accept major CC, btw
No. It's called DENIAL.
You - yes, YOU - fvcked America. And, you want to blame the Americans that were fvcked.
Similar threads
