Harbaugh has same sorry group from last year looking like contender

[blion72]

impact of a coach and staff that knows what it is doing is impressive.

I would add one other thing going for Harbaugh = just like Urban he walked into his new team with a QB that matches his scheme and approach. If Harbaugh had entered last year with a 5* dual threat QB that it is hard to bench - he would not be looking so good.

Both Harbaugh and Meyer walked into teams with QBs that fit their schemes.

Franklin has a QB that does not match anything he/staff wants to do. his entire system depends on a QB that will run at least 5-10 times per game for positive yardage.

 

[pierremc]

impact of a coach and staff that knows what it is doing is impressive.

I would add one other thing going for Harbaugh = just like Urban he walked into his new team with a QB that matches his scheme and approach. If Harbaugh had entered last year with a 5* dual threat QB that it is hard to bench - he would not be looking so good.

Both Harbaugh and Meyer walked into teams with QBs that fit their schemes.

Franklin has a QB that does not match anything he/staff wants to do. his entire system depends on a QB that will run at least 5-10 times per game for positive yardage.

Disagree about Harbaugh walking into his system QB. Harbaugh got Iowa's back up QB to transfer because the other qb's on the roster were true freshman or not very good. He is doing this despite not having "his" QB imo.

 

[BlueBand]

impact of a coach and staff that knows what it is doing is impressive.

I would add one other thing going for Harbaugh = just like Urban he walked into his new team with a QB that matches his scheme and approach. If Harbaugh had entered last year with a 5* dual threat QB that it is hard to bench - he would not be looking so good.

Both Harbaugh and Meyer walked into teams with QBs that fit their schemes.

Franklin has a QB that does not match anything he/staff wants to do. his entire system depends on a QB that will run at least 5-10 times per game for positive yardage.

Both walked into situations where their teams had been recruiting at a high level. Both walked into situations where they weren't dealing with the after affects of severe scholarship reductions.

 

[dawgduice]

If you have watched their games you would know why. They have an OL. We do not and are years away from having one.
We would be easily better than that if we had their OL. Heck give me Rutgers OL.

 

[mn78psu83]

impact of a coach and staff that knows what it is doing is impressive.

I would add one other thing going for Harbaugh = just like Urban he walked into his new team with a QB that matches his scheme and approach. If Harbaugh had entered last year with a 5* dual threat QB that it is hard to bench - he would not be looking so good.

Both Harbaugh and Meyer walked into teams with QBs that fit their schemes.

Franklin has a QB that does not match anything he/staff wants to do. his entire system depends on a QB that will run at least 5-10 times per game for positive yardage.

And a situation with depth that includes mostly highly recruited players. Big difference.

 

[Raffycorn]

Michigan certainly seems to be improving every week - if we stay healthy and keep improving along with them, it should make for a pretty good game under the lights late in the season.

 

[ellobo]

Both walked into situations where their teams had been recruiting at a high level. Both walked into situations where they weren't dealing with the after affects of severe scholarship reductions.

I agree that our situation is not the same as yours but it's not the same as tOSU's was either. Harbaugh walked into a situation where there were some pieces but also some major holes on the roster...in particular at QB and with speed on the O. This team is lacking impact players on O which is a problem that will need to be fixed with recruiting. The team looks better than expected at the moment but certainly has a ceiling because of that.

The biggest issue he has had to fix is even though there were some of the pieces to work with they were not just poorly coached (prior) as a team but more so as individuals. Harbaugh gets much of the publicity for the turn around (so far...knock on wood) but the real credit needs to go to the staff he assembled. They have some guys that seemed like lost causes playing lights out...way better than even a homer Michigan guy like myself expected. Thus why things look rosy right now even if this current team is limited by certain holes on the roster.

 

[blion72]

I agree that our situation is not the same as yours but it's not the same as tOSU's was either. Harbaugh walked into a situation where there were some pieces but also some major holes on the roster...in particular at QB and with speed on the O. This team is lacking impact players on O which is a problem that will need to be fixed with recruiting. The team looks better than expected at the moment but certainly has a ceiling because of that.

The biggest issue he has had to fix is even though there were some of the pieces to work with they were not just poorly coached (prior) as a team but more so as individuals. Harbaugh gets much of the publicity for the turn around (so far...knock on wood) but the real credit needs to go to the staff he assembled. They have some guys that seemed like lost causes playing lights out...way better than even a homer Michigan guy like myself expected. Thus why things look rosy right now even if this current team is limited by certain holes on the roster.

my original point is that Rudock looks much more like the type of QB Harb prefers. Brady, who I always admired, was stuck with a 5* QB that did not fit his mold. it was politically hard for him to bench a player like that. Franklin walked into a situation similar to what Brady did. JF had to deal with the expectations that Hack would be the TOP pick in NFL draft = second coming. JF has a QB at #2 that we have NEVER seen play even in a spring game - until last week when he handed the ball off 4 times. Franklin is in the same spot that Brady was last year. he has a high profile QB who does not fit his OFF.

 

[blion72]

I agree that our situation is not the same as yours but it's not the same as tOSU's was either. Harbaugh walked into a situation where there were some pieces but also some major holes on the roster...in particular at QB and with speed on the O. This team is lacking impact players on O which is a problem that will need to be fixed with recruiting. The team looks better than expected at the moment but certainly has a ceiling because of that.

The biggest issue he has had to fix is even though there were some of the pieces to work with they were not just poorly coached (prior) as a team but more so as individuals. Harbaugh gets much of the publicity for the turn around (so far...knock on wood) but the real credit needs to go to the staff he assembled. They have some guys that seemed like lost causes playing lights out...way better than even a homer Michigan guy like myself expected. Thus why things look rosy right now even if this current team is limited by certain holes on the roster.

my original point is that Rudock looks much more like the type of QB Harb prefers. Brady, who I always admired, was stuck with a 5* QB that did not fit his mold. it was politically hard for him to bench a player like that. Franklin walked into a situation similar to what Brady did. JF had to deal with the expectations that Hack would be the TOP pick in NFL draft = second coming. JF has a QB at #2 that we have NEVER seen play even in a spring game - until last week when he handed the ball off 4 times. Franklin is in the same spot that Brady was last year. he has a high profile QB who does not fit his OFF.

 

[ellobo]

my original point is that Rudock looks much more like the type of QB Harb prefers. Brady, who I always admired, was stuck with a 5* QB that did not fit his mold. it was politically hard for him to bench a player like that. Franklin walked into a situation similar to what Brady did. JF had to deal with the expectations that Hack would be the TOP pick in NFL draft = second coming. JF has a QB at #2 that we have NEVER seen play even in a spring game - until last week when he handed the ball off 4 times. Franklin is in the same spot that Brady was last year. he has a high profile QB who does not fit his OFF.

Not sure I completely agree with Rudock being Harbaugh's ideal fit. Harbaugh prefers a guy who can run a bit. To be clear he isn't looking for a rb that can throw...he wouldn't have recruited Denard to play QB for him...but he wants a guy who can create with his feet and not just stand in the pocket. It was the type of qb he was, the type of qb he was went out on got in the NFL (kapernick) and the type he is recruiting to Michigan. Sure that sounds ideal...a thrower that can also run...but you are not going to see him go after just pure pocket passers...which is what he inherited.

 

[theXbomber]

Plus Peppers on defense. That's a huge deal.

 

[theXbomber]

Peppers on their D is like us with Barkley. It's a really big deal.

 

[Mister Magoo]

There were some fools on here who thought Harbaugh was only successful because of Luck at Stanford. And, ignored his success in SF. This division is going to be ridiculously strong at the top 4. Comparable to SEC West in the Top 4. Not all 7.

 

[NewYC]

Hoke did a great job of recruiting. They have a ton of talent and a returning oline. With the QB from Iowa, they've been able to look pretty good so far. They'll still lose between 3-5 games imo.

impact of a coach and staff that knows what it is doing is impressive.

I would add one other thing going for Harbaugh = just like Urban he walked into his new team with a QB that matches his scheme and approach. If Harbaugh had entered last year with a 5* dual threat QB that it is hard to bench - he would not be looking so good.

Both Harbaugh and Meyer walked into teams with QBs that fit their schemes.

Franklin has a QB that does not match anything he/staff wants to do. his entire system depends on a QB that will run at least 5-10 times per game for positive yardage.

 

[lionlurker]

One thing Hoke could do well, was recruit. The cupboard that Harbaugh received was not bare. And even if he is an odd duck, the guy can obviously coach. He is going to do great at UM.

Luckily for us, he probably wants to return to the NFL to silence his naysayers. When he leaves, we will be glad he is gone, because it is likely that UM will eat our lunches while he is coaching. He is a better coach than Franklin, and Michigan recruits itself.

 

[BobPSU92]

One thing Hoke could do well, was recruit. The cupboard that Harbaugh received was not bare. And even if he is an odd duck, the guy can obviously coach. He is going to do great at UM.

Luckily for us, he probably wants to return to the NFL to silence his naysayers. When he leaves, we will be glad he is gone, because it is likely that UM will eat our lunches while he is coaching. He is a better coach than Franklin, and Michigan recruits itself.

I call him FLOKE, Flyin' Lyin' Hoke.

 

[nits74]

Michigan certainly seems to be improving every week - if we stay healthy and keep improving along with them, it should make for a pretty good game under the lights late in the season.

???

 

[Raffycorn]

???

I'm not entirely sure how you're confused.

 

[Katatonic]

If you have watched their games you would know why. They have an OL. We do not and are years away from having one.
We would be easily better than that if we had their OL. Heck give me Rutgers OL.

Hoke's biggest failing was being able to develop an O-line (aside from his 1st year at UM, their O-line has ranged from bad to worse).

For the past couple of years, UM and NU have had the worst O-lines in the conf. (for just last season, it would be PSU).

Harbaugh and his staff somehow can work magic w/ O-lines.

Stanford's stout O-line during the Luck years was mostly 2* and 3* recruits and Harbaugh took basically the same 49ers O-line which made Alex Smith look like a major bust into one which made Smith look like an above-avg. NFL QB.

Not sure I completely agree with Rudock being Harbaugh's ideal fit. Harbaugh prefers a guy who can run a bit. To be clear he isn't looking for a rb that can throw...he wouldn't have recruited Denard to play QB for him...but he wants a guy who can create with his feet and not just stand in the pocket. It was the type of qb he was, the type of qb he was went out on got in the NFL (kapernick) and the type he is recruiting to Michigan. Sure that sounds ideal...a thrower that can also run...but you are not going to see him go after just pure pocket passers...which is what he inherited.

This, except for the Kaepernick thing - looking back, Harbaugh probably would have gone for a QB who is a more polished passer at the start - so a passing QB w/ mobility (i.e. - Luck) and not necessarily a running QB.

 

[studed]

impact of a coach and staff that knows what it is doing is impressive.

I would add one other thing going for Harbaugh = just like Urban he walked into his new team with a QB that matches his scheme and approach. If Harbaugh had entered last year with a 5* dual threat QB that it is hard to bench - he would not be looking so good.

Both Harbaugh and Meyer walked into teams with QBs that fit their schemes.

Franklin has a QB that does not match anything he/staff wants to do. his entire system depends on a QB that will run at least 5-10 times per game for positive yardage.

his first head coaching job he had a duel threat qb. won big and the kid was dafted in the nfl

 

[ellobo]

One thing Hoke could do well, was recruit. The cupboard that Harbaugh received was not bare. And even if he is an odd duck, the guy can obviously coach. He is going to do great at UM.

Luckily for us, he probably wants to return to the NFL to silence his naysayers. When he leaves, we will be glad he is gone, because it is likely that UM will eat our lunches while he is coaching. He is a better coach than Franklin, and Michigan recruits itself.

Looking back I'm starting to think Hoke was overrated as a recruiter. What he excelled at was selling the program. However, that is only one part of the equation. I don't think he was a top notch talent evaluator and got little help in that department from his mostly jv staff. It's not that he was recruiting bad football players but he seemed to lack the ability to recognize players that were just scratching the surface of their abilities. And I'm not just talking about 2/3* sleepers...in fact I'm talking more about guys who were 4*s and you look back (at the end of their careers) and wonder why on earth they weren't ranked even higher.

 

[Still in State College]

Like always in my opinion is what makes a good coach is their ability to prepare teams and get very good execution from the players. Harbaugh will be successful regardless of the type of player he has. His teams will execute well and be prepared.

 

[SR108]

impact of a coach and staff that knows what it is doing is impressive.

I would add one other thing going for Harbaugh = just like Urban he walked into his new team with a QB that matches his scheme and approach. If Harbaugh had entered last year with a 5* dual threat QB that it is hard to bench - he would not be looking so good.

Both Harbaugh and Meyer walked into teams with QBs that fit their schemes.

Franklin has a QB that does not match anything he/staff wants to do. his entire system depends on a QB that will run at least 5-10 times per game for positive yardage.

Neither Harbaugh or Meyer walked into a situation where they had to play as many true freshmen, red shirt freshmen and sophomores. While at first glance I cannot say I'm thrilled with our current offensive schemes, in all fairness, the book is still out. Temple was a nightmare, but in recent games, the team seems better prepared. They are giving them a limited playbook, only what they think the team can handle.

 

[JoeDidntKnow]

One thing Hoke could do well, was recruit. The cupboard that Harbaugh received was not bare. And even if he is an odd duck, the guy can obviously coach. He is going to do great at UM.

Luckily for us, he probably wants to return to the NFL to silence his naysayers. When he leaves, we will be glad he is gone, because it is likely that UM will eat our lunches while he is coaching. He is a better coach than Franklin, and Michigan recruits itself.

CJF is gonna need to step up his game a little if he wants to dominate. He could easily find himself fighting for 3rd ever season unless he improves - which I think he will given 3-4 years and patience from the fans

 

[osu68]

Disagree about Harbaugh walking into his system QB. Harbaugh got Iowa's back up QB to transfer because the other qb's on the roster were true freshman or not very good. He is doing this despite not having "his" QB imo.

A Harbaugh QB is a 'game manager" QB more than an 'impact QB' ! What he did get was a really talented and good D and a more experienced OL. The RB stable is more than adequate. BUT they have to learn to win and that seems to be happening.

 

[pierremc]

A Harbaugh QB is a 'game manager" QB more than an 'impact QB' ! What he did get was a really talented and good D and a more experienced OL. The RB stable is more than adequate. BUT they have to learn to win and that seems to be happening.

I don't that is accurate. I would not call Luck or Kaepernick game manager QB's. They are impact QB's. In fact, Harbaugh chose Kaepernick (impact QB) over Alex Smith (Game Manager). Likewise, his QB at San Diego was a dual threat impact QB.

 

[Katatonic]

^ Except, Kaepernick may be playing himself out of the starting QB job for the 49ers.

(Kaepernick may have been an impact QB w/ his legs, but he was never an impact QB w/ his arm).

 

[pierremc]

^ Except, Kaepernick may be playing himself out of the starting QB job for the 49ers.

(Kaepernick may have been an impact QB w/ his legs, but he was never an impact QB w/ his arm).

He is certainly not a game manager. Harbaugh went with him because of his impact potential, though he is not realizing that potential right now

 

[ellobo]

He is certainly not a game manager. Harbaugh went with him because of his impact potential, though he is not realizing that potential right now

You can go back and forth on if Kaepernick is any good for days but the point is that Harbaugh didn't walk in having his type of QB at Michigan. I think the orginal point that was trying to be made (seeing this is a PSU board) is that Franklin got "stuck" with Hackenberg while Harbaugh was "handed" his ideal guy.

It's a rather uniformed opinion for anyone who belives that. Hack is quite a bit more talented than any QB Harbaugh inherited and he had to get a grad transfer to even put someone on the field that is adequate...a guy that not only lost his job at Iowa but is not in the true mold of what Harbaugh wants...people who think Harbaugh wants a game manager or a guy who just stands in the pocket have clearly not followed his coaching career.

I'm not going to compare and contrast all aspects of Harbaugh vs Franklin on this board. I'm a Michigan guy and a visitor so I will respect my place here. However, I will say that Harbaugh is a qb guy and if there is one single position he is best at working with it is that. So he can adapt to not having "his guy" at the position better than almost anyone if not everyone. That still doesn't mean it is an ideal situation.

 

[Katatonic]

He is certainly not a game manager. Harbaugh went with him because of his impact potential, though he is not realizing that potential right now

Again, Harbaugh went w/ Kaep due to his impact as a runner, hoping to build/add on the passing element which wasn't so successful (and still isn't despite the new regime implementing a really simple passing scheme for Kaep - which has backfired since the Cards DBs have stated that they could predict what was coming).

Also, think Smith has gone beyond being a "game manager"; maybe not an elite QB, but one who can win games from time to time (has passed for 724 yds in 3 games against the better defenses that he will face this season).

 

[hagberg]

You can go back and forth on if Kaepernick is any good for days but the point is that Harbaugh didn't walk in having his type of QB at Michigan. I think the orginal point that was trying to be made (seeing this is a PSU board) is that Franklin got "stuck" with Hackenberg while Harbaugh was "handed" his ideal guy.

It's a rather uniformed opinion for anyone who belives that. Hack is quite a bit more talented than any QB Harbaugh inherited and he had to get a grad transfer to even put someone on the field that is adequate...a guy that not only lost his job at Iowa but is not in the true mold of what Harbaugh wants...people who think Harbaugh wants a game manager or a guy who just stands in the pocket have clearly not followed his coaching career.

I'm not going to compare and contrast all aspects of Harbaugh vs Franklin on this board. I'm a Michigan guy and a visitor so I will respect my place here. However, I will say that Harbaugh is a qb guy and if there is one single position he is best at working with it is that. So he can adapt to not having "his guy" at the position better than almost anyone if not everyone. That still doesn't mean it is an ideal situation.

You make a good point about Harbaugh coaching/managing his QBs. That's the biggest difference between his situation and Franklin's; Harbaugh did not have a 5* QB who was expected, even mandated, to be the starter. While most people, looking at the surface of each situation, would say that the 5* guy puts a new coach in the best position to win, that's not necessarily true.

Nobody on this board (at least nobody in their right mind) would say that Hack is not, never was, or never will be a great QB. My opinion is that he can be, likely will be, but only if he is in the perfect system with talent around - and especially in front of - him. Franklin's problem was that Hack did not "fit" in the system he wanted to use, so he was left with two choices: try to get Hack to change most of what he's learned up to this point, or revamp his system for the sake of one player. Personally, I think Hack could benefit from learning new ways of doing things, but that's neither here nor there.

Harbaugh's problem is that he felt he had NO QB with whom to work. To his credit, he got someone who fit enough, someone who could be enough of 'the guy' for a year while he hopefully (hopefully for him, not me!) got the next guy in line ready to go. In the meantime, he got a coach who could get the o-line right so that if he has to suck it up and go with a young QB next year, at least the kid won't be sky gazing for most of every game.

Hard for me to say who had it worse, but I think I'd rather have Harbaugh's problem.

 

[jrd23psu]

If anyone hasn't been paying attention, Jim Harbaugh is a very good coach. He's had success everywhere he has ever coached. I don't know why anybody thought Michigan would be any different. Heck, Hoke was a very good recruiter who brought in tons of talent but couldn't coach to save his life. Does that sound familiar?

 

[bdgan]

impact of a coach and staff that knows what it is doing is impressive.

Michigan had the 7th rated class in 2012 and the 5th rated class in 2013. I agree that he is doing a great job but he also inherited a lot of talent.

PSU's classes for those years were rated 51st and 43rd respectively.

 

[Go M&B]

Michigan had the 7th rated class in 2012 and the 5th rated class in 2013. I agree that he is doing a great job but he also inherited a lot of talent.

PSU's classes for those years were rated 51st and 43rd respectively.

There's some decent talent on the team but they haven't been developed at all until now. Of the two classes you mentioned, 11 kids are no longer on the team.

 

[pierremc]

Again, Harbaugh went w/ Kaep due to his impact as a runner, hoping to build/add on the passing element which wasn't so successful (and still isn't despite the new regime implementing a really simple passing scheme for Kaep - which has backfired since the Cards DBs have stated that they could predict what was coming).

Also, think Smith has gone beyond being a "game manager"; maybe not an elite QB, but one who can win games from time to time (has passed for 724 yds in 3 games against the better defenses that he will face this season).

I was responding to a poster that said Harbaugh prefers a "game manager" QB. I disagreed and believe him choosing Kaepernick over Smith, amongst other evidence, shows that he prefers an impact QB. I am not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me?