Franklin did a huge disservice to Clifford, the team, and the fans.

RU31trap

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I‘m pretty sure Franklin doesn’t need anyone’s blessing to recruit better offensive linemen.
Bob I was referring to DT’s. It will take more than a charismatic personality to land elite SEC caliber DT’s. Coach Franklin will need to push the proverbial envelope which may be laced with risk and consequences. That’s what I meant by getting the schools blessing. However one thing is undeniable, to have a shot at the college playoffs or a NC game you MUST bring in these kids. JMHO
 

BostonNit

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Been thinking about the subject of this thread. At some point, a coach has to protect a player from himself. Any of us who has been a part of coaching at any level knows that the super-competitive kids on a team ALWAYS say they're OK... ALWAYS want to go back in... ALWAYS just want to rub some spit on it and get back in the game.

It's up to the coach to make the move that protects the kid - even if having the kid in the game "gives us the best chance of winning".

With two weeks of practice we couldn't get either backup serviceable to run a series of plays to get Cliff out of the game, mix things up a bit, and maybe, just maybe make something happen? Oh yeah, and to protect a super tough kid who was sliding or throwing the ball away rather than taking a hit.

Really really disappointing coaching on so many levels.
 

fairfaxlion2

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Been thinking about the subject of this thread. At some point, a coach has to protect a player from himself. Any of us who has been a part of coaching at any level knows that the super-competitive kids on a team ALWAYS say they're OK... ALWAYS want to go back in... ALWAYS just want to rub some spit on it and get back in the game.

It's up to the coach to make the move that protects the kid - even if having the kid in the game "gives us the best chance of winning".

With two weeks of practice we couldn't get either backup serviceable to run a series of plays to get Cliff out of the game, mix things up a bit, and maybe, just maybe make something happen? Oh yeah, and to protect a super tough kid who was sliding or throwing the ball away rather than taking a hit.

Really really disappointing coaching on so many levels.

I thought he was reckless with Saquon as well. It worked out fine, but he seemed to use him in risky ways
 

bvillebaron

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Clifford played in pain. I don't think he could throw the ball downfield because it hurt too much. There were a lot of plays where a healthy Clifford would have taken off and ran. Today he went down for a loss because he didn't want to get hit.

Roberson could have thrown the ball downfield. He might have missed his target but at least he could take a shot. He could have also run the ball. I don't know if we would have won with Roberson but I can't imagine him doing a lot worse than what we saw from Clifford today.

So where are we now? Clifford is in no shape to play vs OSU. He got hit a few times today so he's going to be in worse shape than he was coming into the game. I can see a 28 point loss to OSU. Michigan will kill us with their running game. The only question is if we can beat MSU, Maryland, or Rutgers. IMO 6-6 is quite possible.

What about next year? I assume Mustipher, Castro Fields, Brisker, Tangelo, Ebiketie, Brooks, Luketa, and Brown will be gone from the defense. Clifford, Dotson, Walker, Wilson, and Scruggs will be gone from the offense. Stout will also be gone. We have some highly ranked recruits coming in but face it, we're looking at a big rebuilding year. It seems the only chance of being good next year is if we can fill a lot of holes via the portal like MSU did this year. I'm not sure we have room on the roster to do that.

Please tell me where I'm wrong. I really think we're looking at 6-6. Best case 7-5 and a rebuilding year in 2022. That's what makes this one of the most painful losses in PSU history. I'm having difficulty seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. If we rested Clifford this week and next week we "might" have beat Illinois with Roberson (6-1) and lost to OSU (6-2). Then maybe Clifford comes back in better shape vs Maryland. Maybe we still lost to Michigan but finish 8-4. Tough year but blame it on bad luck with injuries. But now we're spiraling down and Clifford is in worse shape.
You don’t know a damn thing about the state of Clifford’s health.
 

AWS1022

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Been thinking about the subject of this thread. At some point, a coach has to protect a player from himself. Any of us who has been a part of coaching at any level knows that the super-competitive kids on a team ALWAYS say they're OK... ALWAYS want to go back in... ALWAYS just want to rub some spit on it and get back in the game.

It's up to the coach to make the move that protects the kid - even if having the kid in the game "gives us the best chance of winning".

With two weeks of practice we couldn't get either backup serviceable to run a series of plays to get Cliff out of the game, mix things up a bit, and maybe, just maybe make something happen? Oh yeah, and to protect a super tough kid who was sliding or throwing the ball away rather than taking a hit.

Really really disappointing coaching on so many levels.
Then you would have been disappointed in every coach in the country who had a similar situation.
 
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N&B4PSU

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History proves it. Coaches play the guys that give them the best chance to win, especially at QB and especially when you only have one.
I agree. And the fact that neither our 2nd or 3rd string QB (with 2 weeks prep) could outperform the 20% starting QB (who was maybe #30 in the country at full throttle)... is scary sheiss.

Presuming CJF saw that...we are serious kimchee.
 
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TheGLOV

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It's early and I hate to be forced to base an argument on statistics, but the truth is that Levis is in his first year starting and has nearly identical stats when compared to Clifford:

Levis: 67% completion percentage throwing to receivers that are not reliable.
Average completion 7.5 yards.
13/6 TD/Int ratio
ESPN rating: 148
Rushing: 50 for 175 yards

Clifford : 66% completion percentage throwing to the likes of Dotson.
Average completion: 8.3 yards.
11/5 TD/Int ratio
ESPN rating: 151
Rushing: 44 for 173 yards

To each his own. I was impressed by what I saw. He's a physical presence, a part of the run game that you cite as a team strength. He now throws a much better ball compared to the limited action and role that I saw at PSU. He doesn't have the same quality of receivers. Dotson has made circus catches. Kentucky receivers get hit in the chest and drop the ball.

Be fair in your comparisons. Why would anyone think Levis is at a plateau in his first starting year since high school? Would you overlay the same standard to a PSU quarterback starting for the first time after spending years riding the pine?

I will admit my bias. I like the Levis type of quarterback -- tall, strong, tough to bring down -- the Roethlisberger type where QB size doesn't limit where we can pass the football. Levis will only get better in sensing pocket pressure, and in using his size/strength to avoid going down.

I want a QB that will extend passing plays. Clifford has not been durable. It's understandable. The more a QB gets hit the worse he is going to play.

I think the Levis type fits a Yurcich style offense, which is also my preference. I think we could be throwing over linemen with ease, whereas right now it seems like we concede that part of the field and let most of the defensive backfield key on the run.

Maybe we don't have tight ends with the size and hands. But what I do know is that our OL struggles at the line of scrimmage, and opposing linebackers can penetrate at will. Something has to change to make them play honest.

How about comparing BIG BEN to Drew Breese!
 

Shadow99

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I know that he got rid of the ball or took a dive as soon as a defender got close to him. But maybe you're right and he's perfectly healthy.
His limitations clearly cost PSU the game...

That said, he didn't turn the ball over...if TR or CV turned the ball over, such turnovers could have easily cost PSU the game...perhaps that was one of the concerns which led to the decision between 2 (or 3) equally risky, non-ideal choices?
 
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bdroc

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His limitations clearly cost PSU the game...

That said, he didn't turn the ball over...if TR or CV turned the ball over, such turnovers could have easily cost PSU the game...perhaps that was one of the concerns which led to the decision between 2 (or 3) equally risky, non-ideal choices?
I actually understand Franklin looking at this as a must win and thinking (hoping) that Clifford gave us the best chance. It actually started out reasonably well as PSU took a 10-0 lead but reality it was only two big plays and one of those was lucky. Clifford threw up a wounded duck that should have been intercepted but Dotson came back to the ball and stole it from the defender. As Clifford took a few hits his performance deteriorated. It quickly became apparent that he couldn't get it done. IMO the staff didn't do anything to help him. No WR screens until late in the game. No conventional screens. No Wildcats until 4th down in OT. No bringing in Roberson for a few runs. No going to Roberson knowing that Clifford was shot.

So now we've played Clifford and he's probably in worse shape than he was last week. I don't see any way that he'll be fit to play against OSU. I'd sit him, take the beating, and hope he's somewhat better for Maryland.

P.S. The staff finally called some more creative plays in OT. I liked the shovel pass even though it came up short. I liked the throwback to Clifford. He would have caught it and scored if the pass was better. To be honest he would have caught it if he was healthy but he couldn't bend down to get it. I think Roberson catches that ball if he was in. I don't know why we didn't use a TE or OL as a lead blocker like a fullback. It worked for Iowa and it worked for Illinois but Franklin seems to hate that because it draws another defender.
 

AWS1022

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I actually understand Franklin looking at this as a must win and thinking (hoping) that Clifford gave us the best chance. It actually started out reasonably well as PSU took a 10-0 lead but reality it was only two big plays and one of those was lucky. Clifford threw up a wounded duck that should have been intercepted but Dotson came back to the ball and stole it from the defender. As Clifford took a few hits his performance deteriorated. It quickly became apparent that he couldn't get it done. IMO the staff didn't do anything to help him. No WR screens until late in the game. No conventional screens. No Wildcats until 4th down in OT. No bringing in Roberson for a few runs. No going to Roberson knowing that Clifford was shot.

So now we've played Clifford and he's probably in worse shape than he was last week. I don't see any way that he'll be fit to play against OSU. I'd sit him, take the beating, and hope he's somewhat better for Maryland.

P.S. The staff finally called some more creative plays in OT. I liked the shovel pass even though it came up short. I liked the throwback to Clifford. He would have caught it and scored if the pass was better. To be honest he would have caught it if he was healthy but he couldn't bend down to get it. I think Roberson catches that ball if he was in. I don't know why we didn't use a TE or OL as a lead blocker like a fullback. It worked for Iowa and it worked for Illinois but Franklin seems to hate that because it draws another defender.
I would say he’s not in worse shape now. His injury is obviously the type that will heal with time or he wouldn’t have been cleared to play.
 

97Lion

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I understand that Franklin thought we had a better chance with Clifford. By halftime it should have been obvious that Clifford couldn't do it today but we stuck with him.
and "bad luck with injury to Clifford"

If you are a QB recruit, you have 2 possible paths:
if you are named the starter, under the "I'm a loyalty guy" philosophy you will be starter no matter how you play, or when you get injured. You will trot right back out on the field every time. (see Clifford last Sat, 2020 and 2019. Trace's last year. Hackenburg).

if you are the backup, you will never play, no matter how poorly or injured the starter plays. see Will Levis, Tommy Stevens, and Trace(?) during the 10 sack Temple debacle
 
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AWS1022

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if you are the backup, you will never play, no matter how poorly or injured the starter plays. see Will Levis, Tommy Stevens, and Trace(?) during the 10 sack Temple debacle
Are you sure you don’t want to reread this and post again? Think way back, like last year.
 
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bdroc

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and "bad luck with injury to Clifford"

If you are a QB recruit, you have 2 possible paths:
if you are named the starter, under the "I'm a loyalty guy" philosophy you will be starter no matter how you play, or when you get injured. You will trot right back out on the field every time. (see Clifford last Sat, 2020 and 2019. Trace's last year. Hackenburg).

if you are the backup, you will never play, no matter how poorly or injured the starter plays. see Will Levis, Tommy Stevens, and Trace(?) during the 10 sack Temple debacle
In theory the backup would be 2 years younger. He plays now if the starter gets hurt, otherwise he waits his turn and starts for 2 years after the current starter leaves.
 

bdroc

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I would say he’s not in worse shape now. His injury is obviously the type that will heal with time or he wouldn’t have been cleared to play.
Assume bruised or cracked ribs. I think getting hit a few more times will prolong the recovery.
 

Texas Lion

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Back to the media. TD from Lions 247 just posted on twitter some statements from Clifford on 2022. As usual it was a Franklin type answer but he didn't ruhle out coming back next year.
 
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Madsol

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and "bad luck with injury to Clifford"

If you are a QB recruit, you have 2 possible paths:
if you are named the starter, under the "I'm a loyalty guy" philosophy you will be starter no matter how you play, or when you get injured. You will trot right back out on the field every time. (see Clifford last Sat, 2020 and 2019. Trace's last year. Hackenburg).

if you are the backup, you will never play, no matter how poorly or injured the starter plays. see Will Levis, Tommy Stevens, and Trace(?) during the 10 sack Temple debacle
Clifford was benched for Levis last year. You're terrible at this, give up.
 

mgkpsu

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Angry that he left, but I know it was his decision. And I live in KY, watch all their games, and talk to many of their fans…he’s not doing all the things you claim. They win because of their running game and their defense. He has very little touch and he rarely throws the deep ball. If Clifford put up the numbers Levis has put up, he would get roasted on this board. Funny how posters on here are so much more realistic about other team’s players than our own.
Clifford and Levis have almost identical stat lines this year, you jock sniffing nimrod, even after Clifford stayed in extra long against Villanova just to reach 400 yards. And there is a strong argument to be made that Kentucky's schedule over that time period was at least as tough as ours. Levis should have gotten all of the first team reps late last season, and I am confident that it would have been clear that he was the better choice, but once James picks his guy, then that's that.
 
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AWS1022

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Clifford and Levis have almost identical stat lines this year, you jock sniffing nimrod, even after Clifford stayed in extra long against Villanova just to reach 400 yards. And there is a strong argument to be made that Kentucky's schedule over that time period was at least as tough as ours. Levis should have gotten all of the first team reps late last season, and I am confident that it would have been clear that he was the better choice, but once James picks his guy, then that's that.
You obviously haven’t watched Kentucky play much. Levis couldn’t beat Clifford out, so that’s on him not Franklin. I heard the same crap about Stevens from some “experts” on this board. Please go get a D-1 coaching job, college football is obviously a worse place without your expertise. And I don’t think you understand what a jock sniffer is.
 
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Mufasa94

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…Levis should have gotten all of the first team reps late last season, and I am confident that it would have been clear that he was the better choice, but once James picks his guy, then that's that.
If there was a guarantee Levis wouldn’t have gotten hurt, then it looks like he probably would have been the better choice. Otherwise, things were going fine for PSU with a healthy Clifford at QB.
 
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Shadow99

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Clifford and Levis have almost identical stat lines this year, you jock sniffing nimrod, even after Clifford stayed in extra long against Villanova just to reach 400 yards. And there is a strong argument to be made that Kentucky's schedule over that time period was at least as tough as ours. Levis should have gotten all of the first team reps late last season, and I am confident that it would have been clear that he was the better choice, but once James picks his guy, then that's that.
What part of Levis starting games last season while Clifford was healthy is confusing?
 

mgkpsu

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What part of Levis starting games last season while Clifford was healthy is confusing?
He started one game one year and one game the second year, which meant a grand total of two weeks of first team reps. You can pretend he got a fair shake if you wish.
 

TheGLOV

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You obviously haven’t watched Kentucky play much. Levis couldn’t beat Clifford out, so that’s on him not Franklin. I heard the same crap about Stevens from some “experts” on this board. Please go get a D-1 coaching job, college football is obviously a worse place without your expertise. And I don’t think you understand what a jock sniffer is.

You are wrong sir.
 

TheGLOV

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Clifford and Levis have almost identical stat lines this year, you jock sniffing nimrod, even after Clifford stayed in extra long against Villanova just to reach 400 yards. And there is a strong argument to be made that Kentucky's schedule over that time period was at least as tough as ours. Levis should have gotten all of the first team reps late last season, and I am confident that it would have been clear that he was the better choice, but once James picks his guy, then that's that.

BINGO!
 

Psugo823

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I agree. And the fact that neither our 2nd or 3rd string QB (with 2 weeks prep) could outperform the 20% starting QB (who was maybe #30 in the country at full throttle)... is scary sheiss.

Presuming CJF saw that...we are serious kimchee.
Which is also the head coaches fault and failure in recruiting, developing, and the failure to get a qb in the portal.
 

EdH85

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Third most rushing yards against Penn State in the past 25 years. If the defense could have gotten off the field more, the offense gets more chances to score. They dominated the time of possession.
Or if the offense could have sustained a drive, our defense wouldn’t of been on the field so much. Depends how you look at it. Holding a team to one touchdown and 10 points during regulation is pretty good. Most times we win that game. But our offense was inept and hamstrung by a gimpy quarterback who was put out there by our head coach.
 
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rudedude

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Or if the offense could have sustained a drive, our defense wouldn’t of been on the field so much. Depends how you look at it. Holding a team to one touchdown and 10 points during regulation is pretty good. Most times we win that game. But our offense was inept and hamstrung by a gimpy quarterback who was put out there by our head coach.
Also by TEs who can’t catch, no running game and a porous OL, so yeah keep blaming the coach.
 

Psugo823

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Or if the offense could have sustained a drive, our defense wouldn’t of been on the field so much. Depends how you look at it. Holding a team to one touchdown and 10 points during regulation is pretty good. Most times we win that game. But our offense was inept and hamstrung by a gimpy quarterback who was put out there by our head coach.
Who FAILED to secure a quarter back in a portal that had 100 to choose from.
 
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