FC/OT: True Detective S2E1 Discussion - ***SPOILERS***

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Like others, I was extremely skeptical that the writers/producers of 'True Detective' would be able to keep the momentum going into Season 2 given there would be a new cast, setting, story, and different directors. But, from the 'sorta similar' opening title credits (was that Leonard Cohen?) to each an every dark and nihilistic scene, I'm happy to say my skepticism has been lifted (not entirely, but enough to allow me to enjoy the show without making constant comparisons to last season). Certainly, this is film noir, and everything is dark, bleak, and extreme. All of our protagonists are troubled souls, and finding out why will be an interesting journey. And to be honest, while Colin Farrell's Det. Ray Volcaro was the character I was looking forward to most (and he didn't disappoint! don't be a bully kids!), Vince Vaughn was the most surprising. His 'crooked businessman trying to go somewhat legit' Fank Semyon was the most centered and rounded character in the episode (despite him having some super noir-tastic quotes, such as ' Never do anything out of hunger. Not even eat.' WTF?). Anyway, toss in badass Rachel McAdams as Ani Bezzerides and Taylor Kitsch as CHP Officer Paul Woodrough (both were great IMO, especially McAdams) and I think we have a nice group to get us through this year. They're all dark as hell, but still.

Anyway, I like that they sort of introduced the characters and built towards the ending (mystery solved - we know where Caspere is now!) rather than opening with the murder. Caspere has some obvious ghosts and like last year, the big questions remain - who killed Caspere, and why?

What did everyone think?

 

[Grass]

Really enjoyed it. I was thinking the same thing you did the entire time I was watching. Man, are these characters seriously F'd up and what the hell are we going to find out about them? I agree, so far Vaughn's character appears to be the most normal one out of all of them. Who in the heck is playing Kitsch's girlfriend? Wow.

 

[WPB_lion]

Like others, I was extremely skeptical that the writers/producers of 'True Detective' would be able to keep the momentum going into Season 2 given there would be a new cast, setting, story, and different directors. But, from the 'sorta similar' opening title credits (was that Leonard Cohen?) to each an every dark and nihilistic scene, I'm happy to say my skepticism has been lifted (not entirely, but enough to allow me to enjoy the show without making constant comparisons to last season). Certainly, this is film noir, and everything is dark, bleak, and extreme. All of our protagonists are troubled souls, and finding out why will be an interesting journey. And to be honest, while Colin Farrell's Det. Ray Volcaro was the character I was looking forward to most (and he didn't disappoint! don't be a bully kids!), Vince Vaughn was the most surprising. His 'crooked businessman trying to go somewhat legit' Fank Semyon was the most centered and rounded character in the episode (despite him having some super noir-tastic quotes, such as ' Never do anything out of hunger. Not even eat.' WTF?). Anyway, toss in badass Rachel McAdams as Ani Bezzerides and Taylor Kitsch as CHP Officer Paul Woodrough (both were great IMO, especially McAdams) and I think we have a nice group to get us through this year. They're all dark as hell, but still.

Anyway, I like that they sort of introduced the characters and built towards the ending (mystery solved - we know where Caspere is now!) rather than opening with the murder. Caspere has some obvious ghosts and like last year, the big questions remain - who killed Caspere, and why?

What did everyone think?

The show was extremely slow. You have to watch this show when you are not tired. It literally put me to sleep. I taped it and watched it this morning before work. In order to understand and enjoy the show, your full attention is required. If you miss a scene, you are lost.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

The show was extremely slow. You have to watch this show when you are not tired. It literally put me to sleep. I taped it and watched it this morning before work. In order to understand and enjoy the show, your full attention is required. If you miss a scene, you are lost.

Actually, same thing happened to me. I had to shut it off with about 20 minutes left last night and finished it this morning. I was really tired and knew I couldn't give the show my full attention. As was the case with Season 1, I'm sure there are hints hidden in plain sight that aren't obvious on first viewing or when tired. Still, I expect the pace to pick up now that all of our players have been introduced.

Who in the heck is playing Kitsch's girlfriend? Wow.

Funny you should ask - that would be Adria Arjona, who Esquire profiled earlier today...quite the stunner!

http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a35822/adria-arjona-true-detective-instagram-photos/

 

[rudedude]

Like others, I was extremely skeptical that the writers/producers of 'True Detective' would be able to keep the momentum going into Season 2 given there would be a new cast, setting, story, and different directors. But, from the 'sorta similar' opening title credits (was that Leonard Cohen?) to each an every dark and nihilistic scene, I'm happy to say my skepticism has been lifted (not entirely, but enough to allow me to enjoy the show without making constant comparisons to last season). Certainly, this is film noir, and everything is dark, bleak, and extreme. All of our protagonists are troubled souls, and finding out why will be an interesting journey. And to be honest, while Colin Farrell's Det. Ray Volcaro was the character I was looking forward to most (and he didn't disappoint! don't be a bully kids!), Vince Vaughn was the most surprising. His 'crooked businessman trying to go somewhat legit' Fank Semyon was the most centered and rounded character in the episode (despite him having some super noir-tastic quotes, such as ' Never do anything out of hunger. Not even eat.' WTF?). Anyway, toss in badass Rachel McAdams as Ani Bezzerides and Taylor Kitsch as CHP Officer Paul Woodrough (both were great IMO, especially McAdams) and I think we have a nice group to get us through this year. They're all dark as hell, but still.

Anyway, I like that they sort of introduced the characters and built towards the ending (mystery solved - we know where Caspere is now!) rather than opening with the murder. Caspere has some obvious ghosts and like last year, the big questions remain - who killed Caspere, and why?

What did everyone think?

It is gong to be a really dark "pulp fiction" type season. Colin Farrell was freaking brutal "what happened to your shoes". Yikes! The characters are so damaged and we learn a lot about them right off the jump with the exception of Vaughn's character who appears to be a career criminal trying to go legit. The twisted crap in Caspere's place makes for some sadistic tones underlying the surface and, remember one of the show's tag lines is " we get the world we deserve". Looks like many of the characters already deserve a big s__ _t sandwich!

 

[rudedude]

Season 2 opening song Nevermind by Leonard Cohen

 

[jabba2]

Definitely worth watching. I felt Vaughns character was by far the least interesting. Hopefully Vaughn gets shaken up about something because he was far to monotone for the amount of time his character got. The rest of the show and cast were pretty good. A little slow.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Definitely worth watching. I felt Vaughns character was by far the least interesting. Hopefully Vaughn gets shaken up about something because he was far to monotone for the amount of time his character got. The rest of the show and cast were pretty good. A little slow.

Well, that was what I sort of appreciated about Vaughn; I really didn't want to see him ham it up or anything and after introducing at least four very f'd up individuals (Farrell is a violent drunk; McAdams is a sex/booze/gambling addict with daddy issues; Kitsch has a death wish; Caspere has dildos and skeletons and paintings of sex all over his apartment) it was kind of nice to just have a guy trying his hand at going legit (albeit by using illegitimate methods).

Also, this show has a very distinct way of showing women in their underwear....

 

[jj410]

Like others, I was extremely skeptical that the writers/producers of 'True Detective' would be able to keep the momentum going into Season 2 given there would be a new cast, setting, story, and different directors. But, from the 'sorta similar' opening title credits (was that Leonard Cohen?) to each an every dark and nihilistic scene, I'm happy to say my skepticism has been lifted (not entirely, but enough to allow me to enjoy the show without making constant comparisons to last season). Certainly, this is film noir, and everything is dark, bleak, and extreme. All of our protagonists are troubled souls, and finding out why will be an interesting journey. And to be honest, while Colin Farrell's Det. Ray Volcaro was the character I was looking forward to most (and he didn't disappoint! don't be a bully kids!), Vince Vaughn was the most surprising. His 'crooked businessman trying to go somewhat legit' Fank Semyon was the most centered and rounded character in the episode (despite him having some super noir-tastic quotes, such as ' Never do anything out of hunger. Not even eat.' WTF?). Anyway, toss in badass Rachel McAdams as Ani Bezzerides and Taylor Kitsch as CHP Officer Paul Woodrough (both were great IMO, especially McAdams) and I think we have a nice group to get us through this year. They're all dark as hell, but still.

Anyway, I like that they sort of introduced the characters and built towards the ending (mystery solved - we know where Caspere is now!) rather than opening with the murder. Caspere has some obvious ghosts and like last year, the big questions remain - who killed Caspere, and why?

What did everyone think?

Incredibly slow and pretentious, to the point of parody. Lots of close-ups of some very serious overacting - I think it's called "chewing the scenery". Written and directed by those who brought you the MM car commercial. Vince Vaughan is the only one coming off as at all believable, I guess because he isn't a "serious" actor.
Like one commenter said: Director: "Okay, places everyone! Now, when I say 'Action' I want BROODING! Lots of brooding!"

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Okay, now that we have our 'wet blanket' post out of the way, reading more reviews and comments from the big 'deep dive' sites, it seems certain themes and influences are starting to expose themselves. The first and most obvious is Oedipus Rex. All sexual references/dysfunction aside (Ferrell couldn't get his wife pregnant; Vaughn is working on IVF for his wife; Kitsch can't get it up; McAdams is probably into 'butt stuff' (maybe, and probably, more); her sister is a webcam porn star; and Caspere's home is basically a shrine to debauchery), McAdams's character is named 'Antigone' (called Ani on the show), who was Oedipus's daughter. Her sister is named Athena. Further, when Caspere is found dead on the park bench, his eyes are burned or stabbed out (Oedipus stabbed his eyes out too), and someone threw in a nice 'pelvic wound' to go with them. Obviously, sex and sexual dysfunction is a major overriding theme this year (not quite as deliciously engrossing as the mystery surrounding The King in Yellow, but interesting).

Then we get to the texts/books that almost certainly inspired the title of this episode - 'The Western Book of the Dead.' Entertainment Weekly has dug up some information on them and there are strong thematic similarities. The second book has the following quote:

• As meaning slips from the world, “LOVE” turns into “SEX,” and “families began to die as families and children were left to the whim of the courts.”

That works, right? Will be interesting to see what else pops up.

And finally, a bit off topic, what the hell do you think McAdams does with these?? Noting this is right outside her bedroom door...

 

[rjg82]

Midnighter I always like reading your posts on TV/movies etc. Excellent insight as always.

 

[rudedude]

I think that Ani & Athena's father will eventually be revealed to have had an incestuous relationship with his daughters, hence Ani's angst and penchant for being a dirt chute date & Athena's porn deal. More clues:

- The name of Ani’s father’s commune/retreat/institute is called Panticapaeum, which is an apparent reference to an ancient Greek colony on what is now known as the Crimea. According to the World Monuments Fund, it was once the capital of the Bosporan Kingdom, a regional political stronghold.

- A sign at the Panticapaeum Institute reads, “Thank you for supporting the longevity of the dharma through a monetary donation.”

Appears there is a lot of possible Greek tragedy going on here!

 

[tboyer]

I liked it a lot. I think you have to be on the lookout for Noir references and humor. There's an undercurrent of very black humor to the whole thing. You have to keep in mind that this isn't meant to be a story that could actually happen in reality, it's a play from the Noir playbook. Lots of insider references and homage (like when the big old American sedan, in atmospheric light, drives past the sign for Mulholland Drive.) Noir is mostly a California genre -- In that sense this edition of True Detective is probably more like what the series was originanally envisioned to be.

The story last year was so centered on the excellent two male leads. This one has basically a triple lead, including a woman (the Rachel McAdams character), and we've never seen her in anything with this much edge to the character. I think she pulls it off well. The Colin Farrell character backstory -- I was kind of disappointed, it was just too over the top beating up the father with the kid watching. That just strained credulity too much -- you just couldn't believe that a cop or anyone really would get away with an agg assault that was so obvious with witnesses and victims who would have pressed charges.

Anyway, last year's edition was a little slow moving and took a while to really get its footing. I think you have to be patient with this one too and see how the characters develop and interact. It's definitely an intelligent screenplay.

 

[bmw199]

Vaughn's wife is definitely behind Caspere's murder.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Vaughn's wife is definitely behind Caspere's murder.

Interesting theory. After thinking about themes and atmosphere, I'm starting to get into the real meat of the show, which is, who killed Caspere, and why? Vaughn has the most to gain from him being alive, so he's not on my list. However, that's a pretty obvious impression after one episode, so maybe there is some misdirection here. At this point, anyone could be suspect, but knowing what we *do* know, my guess is the killer is or will be somehow related to the Panticapaeum retreat. My assumption is that their land will be swallowed up as part of this 'mass transit rail' project and they are doing everything they can to prevent that from happening. The only other real 'lead' we have is that Ferrell's character suspects something may be up with the authorities in his town. When he and his partner investigate Caspere's home, he says something like, 'They knew what we would find here.' He then punts the work off to the kidnapping group (noting he doesn't want any part of whatever has happened). This was similar to Season 1 where everyone suspected the cops right away.

Of course, Season 1's killer ended up coming of came out of the blue, so who knows? The difference here is that we weren't really given a motivation for what happened in Season 1, and that was sort of it's 'cosmic horror' charm - bad things just happen. This year, there is motivation.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Midnighter I always like reading your posts on TV/movies etc. Excellent insight as always.

Thanks! My wife doesn't watch Game of Thrones, Justified, or True Detective (or any other show with violence/nudity - except The Americans; she loves that one), so this place is my water cooler. Also, no one at my work watches that stuff either. Buncha nerds.

 

[OldTiredLion]

Sometimes when I watch shows like these, with good guys who are probably as evil as the bad guys, I miss Joe Friday.

 

[bmw199]

Sometimes when I watch shows like these, with good guys who are probably as evil as the bad guys, I miss Joe Friday.

In real life everyone has their demons.

That is a concept explored in GOT too. Everyone thinks they are the hero. Everyone thinks they are justified. Well maybe not Ramsey, that boy is just insane.

 

[PSU.:.]

I Like it so far but can't deny its slow as hell. Can't wait to see what skeletons these characters have.

 

[Frank3]

Interesting theory. After thinking about themes and atmosphere, I'm starting to get into the real meat of the show, which is, who killed Caspere, and why? Vaughn has the most to gain from him being alive, so he's not on my list. However, that's a pretty obvious impression after one episode, so maybe there is some misdirection here. At this point, anyone could be suspect, but knowing what we *do* know, my guess is the killer is or will be somehow related to the Panticapaeum retreat. My assumption is that their land will be swallowed up as part of this 'mass transit rail' project and they are doing everything they can to prevent that from happening. The only other real 'lead' we have is that Ferrell's character suspects something may be up with the authorities in his town. When he and his partner investigate Caspere's home, he says something like, 'They knew what we would find here.' He then punts the work off to the kidnapping group (noting he doesn't want any part of whatever has happened). This was similar to Season 1 where everyone suspected the cops right away.

Of course, Season 1's killer ended up coming of came out of the blue, so who knows? The difference here is that we weren't really given a motivation for what happened in Season 1, and that was sort of it's 'cosmic horror' charm - bad things just happen. This year, there is motivation.

Midnighter - thanks for the analysis of various shows. Look forward to reading your thoughts and tune in to some shows based on what you have to say. You got me hooked on Game of Thrones a few seasons back!

 

[rudedude]

She use

Okay, now that we have our 'wet blanket' post out of the way, reading more reviews and comments from the big 'deep dive' sites, it seems certain themes and influences are starting to expose themselves. The first and most obvious is Oedipus Rex. All sexual references/dysfunction aside (Ferrell couldn't get his wife pregnant; Vaughn is working on IVF for his wife; Kitsch can't get it up; McAdams is probably into 'butt stuff' (maybe, and probably, more); her sister is a webcam porn star; and Caspere's home is basically a shrine to debauchery), McAdams's character is named 'Antigone' (called Ani on the show), who was Oedipus's daughter. Her sister is named Athena. Further, when Caspere is found dead on the park bench, his eyes are burned or stabbed out (Oedipus stabbed his eyes out too), and someone threw in a nice 'pelvic wound' to go with them. Obviously, sex and sexual dysfunction is a major overriding theme this year (not quite as deliciously engrossing as the mystery surrounding The King in Yellow, but interesting).

Then we get to the texts/books that almost certainly inspired the title of this episode - 'The Western Book of the Dead.' Entertainment Weekly has dug up some information on them and there are strong thematic similarities. The second book has the following quote:

• As meaning slips from the world, “LOVE” turns into “SEX,” and “families began to die as families and children were left to the whim of the courts.”

That works, right? Will be interesting to see what else pops up.

And finally, a bit off topic, what the hell do you think McAdams does with these?? Noting this is right outside her bedroom door...

She uses those tools on her "stabbing mannequin" that was glimpsed briefly in the shot in her apartment.

 

[jj410]

Okay, now that we have our 'wet blanket' post out of the way, reading more reviews and comments from the big 'deep dive' sites, it seems certain themes and influences are starting to expose themselves. The first and most obvious is Oedipus Rex. All sexual references/dysfunction aside (Ferrell couldn't get his wife pregnant; Vaughn is working on IVF for his wife; Kitsch can't get it up; McAdams is probably into 'butt stuff' (maybe, and probably, more); her sister is a webcam porn star; and Caspere's home is basically a shrine to debauchery), McAdams's character is named 'Antigone' (called Ani on the show), who was Oedipus's daughter. Her sister is named Athena. Further, when Caspere is found dead on the park bench, his eyes are burned or stabbed out (Oedipus stabbed his eyes out too), and someone threw in a nice 'pelvic wound' to go with them. Obviously, sex and sexual dysfunction is a major overriding theme this year (not quite as deliciously engrossing as the mystery surrounding The King in Yellow, but interesting).

Then we get to the texts/books that almost certainly inspired the title of this episode - 'The Western Book of the Dead.' Entertainment Weekly has dug up some information on them and there are strong thematic similarities. The second book has the following quote:

• As meaning slips from the world, “LOVE” turns into “SEX,” and “families began to die as families and children were left to the whim of the courts.”

That works, right? Will be interesting to see what else pops up.

And finally, a bit off topic, what the hell do you think McAdams does with these?? Noting this is right outside her bedroom door...

Yeah, mythic names, it's real subtle, a regular Greek tragedy. With lots of kinky sex and sicko violence to make sure all the intellectuals watching don't get bored. Not too pretentious.

 

[b&w1987]

I totally enjoyed it ...noir, fatally flawed characters, pace, mood, texture ...but watching the damned walk the earth has always appealed to me.

 

[NewEra 2014]

I am in on this show as well. I am curious to see where they go with these characters, now that they have brought them together at the end of episode 1. I will be mindful of the Oedipus Rex parallels going forward as well. Hopefully they can do a good job of wrapping mythology together with a straight-up crime story.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I am in on this show as well. I am curious to see where they go with these characters, now that they have brought them together at the end of episode 1. I will be mindful of the Oedipus Rex parallels going forward as well. Hopefully they can do a good job of wrapping mythology together with a straight-up crime story.

Well, every day it seems there are new references or clues that surface with respect to this show and Entertainment Weekly has brought a few more to light. How this all ties together, we don't know. But, certainly some direct and maybe indirect influences here with these discoveries:

Antigone
First things first: Rachel McAdams’ character’s name is Antigone. In Sophocles’ tragic play, Antigone, Antigone and Ismene are sisters with two dead brothers, Polyneices and Eteocles, who died leading opposite sides in Thebes’ civil war. Antigone wants to bury Polyneices, though Creon, the ruler of Thebes, prohibited it. When Ismene refuses to help Antigone out of fear, Antigone disowns her. Antigone is engaged to Creon’s son Haemon, and Haemon tries to prevent his father from punishing her, but the conversation ends in argument. Creon decides to bury Antigone alive, when Tiresias, the blind prophet, warns him that the gods are not pleased, and that Creon will lose a son for his crimes. But it’s too late to save Antigone: She hangs herself in the tomb, and Haemon stabs himself in grief.

So, in True Detective Rachel McAdams’ character also has two siblings who died by suicide, and two living ones who are in jail. Perhaps the blinded, dead Ben Casper is some twisted allusion to Tiresias.

I may have missed it, but has it been revealed to viewers (who have only seen the first episode, not the media who have seen more) that Antigone has two dead brothers? This was new to me.

Meister Eckhart
The Western Book of the Dead quotes Eckhart more than once, and a Meister Eckhart book is shown on a desk in a future episode of True Detective. Eckhart was a German theologian, philosopher, and mystic who lived between 1260 and 1328. He was tried for heresy by Pope John XXII, but died before the trial reached a verdict. Eckart was largely forgotten between the sixteenth and nineteenth centuries, but experienced a revival in the 20th century. Some believe Eckhart contributed to the text Theologia Germanica,which can be read in full here, but here is one vital excerpt:

Let us remember how it is written and said that the soul of Christ had two eyes, a right and a left eye. In the beginning … she fixed her right eye upon eternity and the Godhead, and remained in the full intuition and enjoyment of the divine Essence and Eternal Perfection; and continued thus unmoved and undisturbed by all the accidents and travail, suffering, torment, and pain that ever befell the outward man. But with the left eye she beheld the creatures, which were better or worse, nobler or meaner…

Now the created soul of man hath also two eyes. The one is the power of seeing into eternity, the other of seeing into time and the creatures. … But these two eyes of the soul of man cannot perform both their work at once; but if the soul shall see with the right eye into eternity, then the left eye must close itself and refrain from working, and be as though it were dead. … Therefore whosoever will have the one must let the other go; for ‘no man can serve two masters.’

Compare this passage with what Antigone’s father tells his followers at his yoga/ spirtual center, Panticapaeum:

When you see only with God’s eyes, you see only the truth, and you recognize a meaningless universe. Ginsberg said this to me once, and it was a gift. So today’s exercise is to recognize the world as meaningless, and to understand that God did not create a meaningless world. Hold those thoughts as irrefutable and equal, because this is how we must live now, in the final age of man.

In the show, Antigone’s father seems to draw on teachings from both Eckhart and The Western Book of the Dead, wrestling with the world’s meaninglessness, the idea of being able to see clarity and truth, and the dark idea of “the final age of man.” As Panticapaeum seems to be some type of retreat in addition to its spiritual elements, it’s worth considering whether part of the teachings will involve yogis leaving their bodies before death. Meister Eckhart is also quoted in Western Book of the Dead:

• “Eckhart, the great medieval mystic, said: ‘All men are born as creatures, few attain the glory and the dignity that are a human being.’”

Hagakure: Book of the Samurai by Yamamoto Tsunetomo
Along with a few manuals about knives, Hagakure: Book of the Samurai, sits on Antigone’s desk. Hagakure is composed of brief anecdotes and sayings, recorded over a period of seven years, which cover a wide array of subjects, and seek to illuminate the “Way of the Warrior.” Hagakure teaches, for example, that a true samurai must be prepared to die at any moment. You can read the text here.

The Samurai must also live as if he were already dead:

• “This is the substance of the Way of the Samurai. If by setting one’s heart right every morning and evening, one is able to live as though his body were already dead, he pains freedom in the Way. His whole life will be without blame, and he will succeed in his calling.”

And again, we’re back to the idea of living as though you’re dead, separating yourself, in a sense, from your physical body. Is Antigone living as though she’s already dead? Is Paul?

Hopefully, with these strange, mystical and sometimes bizarre new texts in mind, this season of True Detective will make a little bit more sense—as much as it possibly can, anyway.

 

[NewEra 2014]

I may have missed it, but has it been revealed to viewers (who have only seen the first episode, not the media who have seen more) that Antigone has two dead brothers? This was new to me.

I saw the episode last night, and there was no mention of Antigone having brothers, dead or alive, that I can remember.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I saw the episode last night, and there was no mention of Antigone having brothers, dead or alive, that I can remember.

Right - I wonder if this is wrong or is something that will be revealed soon? The only other sibling introduced was Athena, and she was not in jail.