Exactly what I thought when demented Brandon said it...

jrs1024

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I highly advise everyone to cool their old school neo con jets. The US has only two interests in Ukraine: corruption for american elites (see hunter biden and Burisma) and sticking it to Russia for an intelligence apparatus that hasn’t accepted Russias diminished status and a MIC and broken regime that wants war for their own reasons.

Instead of saber rattling even more, everyone should be asking why we even care. Whos sons should die to protect hunter bidens paycheck and democrat poll numbers?

The US launched not one but two color revolutions in the country when they elected Russian friendly presidents. The west is the aggressor in the long run. Russia is the immediate aggressor. But it’s a tit for tat that has gone on for decades and was borne out of western imperialism.

Further, if the US deployed troops over there for some reason, Taiwan would be invaded within weeks. The US can’t fight two wars In Asia at the same time. For what? Pride? WE HAVE NO INTEREST IN UKRAINE!!!
 
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We_Are

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The deal was.....’I’m gonna take a big chunk of Ukraine and if you do anything I will release thousands of text, emails, documents showing how you and Hunter are bought and sold by about twenty countries. And I have all the proof necessary! See you in Keiv!’
I don't think they needed text, photos or emails...all they needed was a scared, feckless old man...
 
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We_Are

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I highly advise everyone to cool their old school neo con jets. The US has only two interests in Ukraine: corruption for american elites (see hunter biden and Burisma) and sticking it to Russia for an intelligence apparatus that hasn’t accepted Russias diminished status and a MIC and broken regime that wants war for their own reasons.

Instead of saber rattling even more, everyone should be asking why we even care. Whos sons should die to protect hunter bidens paycheck and democrat poll numbers?

The US launched not one but two color revolutions in the country when they elected Russian friendly presidents. The west is the aggressor in the long run. Russia is the immediate aggressor. But it’s a tit for tat that has gone on for decades and was borne out of western imperialism.

Further, if the US deployed troops over there for some reason, Taiwan would be invaded within weeks. The US can’t fight two wars In Asia at the same time. For what? Pride? WE HAVE NO INTEREST IN UKRAINE!!!
Pretty sure that was the prevailing thought about the Czech Republic in 1938...
 

jrs1024

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Pretty sure that was the prevailing thought about the Czech Republic in 1938...
Totally off base. Not to mention Czech Republic wasn’t even a thing then.

The US launched TWO color revolutions in Ukraine so we could a) personally profit for our elites and 2) stick it to Russia for fun. Do your homework and stop taking in neocon talking points.

Every single war mongering effort should be viewed with a level of skepticism and cynicism it deserves. WMDs in Iraq? Gulf of Tonkin?
 

LionDeNittany

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I highly advise everyone to cool their old school neo con jets. The US has only two interests in Ukraine: corruption for american elites (see hunter biden and Burisma) and sticking it to Russia for an intelligence apparatus that hasn’t accepted Russias diminished status and a MIC and broken regime that wants war for their own reasons.

Instead of saber rattling even more, everyone should be asking why we even care. Whos sons should die to protect hunter bidens paycheck and democrat poll numbers?

The US launched not one but two color revolutions in the country when they elected Russian friendly presidents. The west is the aggressor in the long run. Russia is the immediate aggressor. But it’s a tit for tat that has gone on for decades and was borne out of western imperialism.

Further, if the US deployed troops over there for some reason, Taiwan would be invaded within weeks. The US can’t fight two wars In Asia at the same time. For what? Pride? WE HAVE NO INTEREST IN UKRAINE!!!

Here's all you should care about.

Question 1:
Is Ukraine a sovereign nation?

Question 2:
If Russia can invade Ukraine, can we invade Canada?

LdN
 
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jrs1024

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Here's all you should care about.

Question 1:
Is Ukraine a sovereign nation?

Question 2:
If Russia can invade Ukraine, can we invade Canada?

LdN
Question 3: if the US overturns two elections because we don’t like who their citizens selected, do we have the moral authority to care about “sovereignty”?
 

LionDeNittany

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Question 3: if the US overturns two elections because we don’t like who their citizens selected, do we have the moral authority to care about “sovereignty”?

We already did this. See Bernie Sanders / Hillary Clinton. See Joe Biden / Bernie Sanders.

Who said anything about moral authority?

LdN
 
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We_Are

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Totally off base. Not to mention Czech Republic wasn’t even a thing then.

The US launched TWO color revolutions in Ukraine so we could a) personally profit for our elites and 2) stick it to Russia for fun. Do your homework and stop taking in neocon talking points.

Every single war mongering effort should be viewed with a level of skepticism and cynicism it deserves. WMDs in Iraq? Gulf of Tonkin?
Sorry realign your base jr, but the Czech Republic was at "thing" then and long before....

Czech republic

Oh ...and What's with the whataboutism... pretty sure the war mongering at this moment in time is the 125,000 Russians sitting on the boarder of Ukraine...
 
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jrs1024

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Sorry realign your base jr, but the Czech Republic was at "thing" then and long before....

Czech republic

Oh ...and What's with the whataboutism... pretty sure the war mongering at this moment in time is the 125,000 Russians sitting on the boarder of Ukraine...
Sorry bud, but it was czechoslovakia at the time.

As for the troops, If someone is lighting your house on fire and you kill them in the act, are you the bad guy? It’s not whataboutism to point out that we started this shit with Russia and our corrupt media doesn’t let you know that.

 

jrs1024

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Sorry realign your base jr, but the Czech Republic was at "thing" then and long before....

Czech republic

Oh ...and What's with the whataboutism... pretty sure the war mongering at this moment in time is the 125,000 Russians sitting on the boarder of Ukraine...
And seriously, if the last five years haven’t made you question the motives and actions of those running the federal government, I don’t know what will.
 

We_Are

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Sorry bud, but it was czechoslovakia at the time.

As for the troops, If someone is lighting your house on fire and you kill them in the act, are you the bad guy? It’s not whataboutism to point out that we started this shit with Russia and our corrupt media doesn’t let you know that.

Oh, for the love of God...Please tell us who ruled the Czech Republic for 48 years after WWII...inquiring minds need to know? BTW: That was Hitlers excuse for taking the Sudetenland...lulz
 
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LionDeNittany

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And seriously, if the last five years haven’t made you question the motives and actions of those running the federal government, I don’t know what will.

Who said anything about not questioning those in the Federal Government?

It's pretty simple. Either we allow Russia to invade neighbors or we dont.

Our stance for over 70 years is we don't.

And we did once. We let Stalin invade and Russia after him destroy the lives of millions of people.

Those days are over.

LdN
 

We_Are

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And seriously, if the last five years haven’t made you question the motives and actions of those running the federal government, I don’t know what will.
Whataboutism...but the last 5 years...lol.
 

Jerry

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I highly advise everyone to cool their old school neo con jets. The US has only two interests in Ukraine: corruption for american elites (see hunter biden and Burisma) and sticking it to Russia for an intelligence apparatus that hasn’t accepted Russias diminished status and a MIC and broken regime that wants war for their own reasons.

Instead of saber rattling even more, everyone should be asking why we even care. Whos sons should die to protect hunter bidens paycheck and democrat poll numbers?

The US launched not one but two color revolutions in the country when they elected Russian friendly presidents. The west is the aggressor in the long run. Russia is the immediate aggressor. But it’s a tit for tat that has gone on for decades and was borne out of western imperialism.

Further, if the US deployed troops over there for some reason, Taiwan would be invaded within weeks. The US can’t fight two wars In Asia at the same time. For what? Pride? WE HAVE NO INTEREST IN UKRAINE!!!

We've had various good exchanges on this topic over the last several weeks, and I laid out the reasons why I basically agree with your position on all this. I won't go through it all again.

Trump's instincts were exactly right on the Russia issue, but the Swamp won the day...and Trump simply didn't have the ability or willingness to effectively fight back.

In any event, the irony is that Senile Joe has given the Rooskies a lot more in one year than Trump did in four. The tough guys of Dem-Media, who spent four years inventing a Russia conspiracy, are now pissing their pants in fear and throwing pipelines, summits, and other goodies at Moscow to head off a looming confrontation over Ukraine.

And now Senile Joe has outdone himself by basically green-lighting a "limited incursion" by Russia. This is a gaffe far worse than Gerald Ford's statement in a 1976 presidential debate that the Soviets did not dominate Poland.

The key differences being that Ford was not senile, whereas Joe is, and the media did not run cover for Ford, whereas Dem-Media's propaganda organs will see to it that not too much is made of Biden's idiotic blunder.

I think the only safe bet at this point is that all this is not going to end well for Senile Joe, his puppeteers, and the Regime. The big question now is how bad is it going to be: a mere fiasco...or an existential disaster.
 

royboy

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The key differences being that Ford was not senile, whereas Joe is, and the media did not run cover for Ford, whereas Dem-Media's propaganda organs will see to it that not too much is made of Biden's idiotic blunder.

I think the only safe bet at this point is that all this is not going to end well for Senile Joe, his puppeteers, and the Regime. The big question now is how bad is it going to be: a mere fiasco...or an existential disaster.
Hard to even see a best case transition.
  • Biden steps down somewhat gracefully in 2022, and Kamala takes office -- not good
  • Biden steps down in 2022, Kamala has also stepped down, and Nancy Pelosi assumes Presidency -- ugh
  • Biden continues to decline, the economy is troubled by inflation and possible recession, international situation goes from bad to worse, and Biden makes it through his term -- can envision the bad news, but I honestly don't see how Biden makes it another 3 years
  • The Dem puppeteers engineer some scenario where they replace Kamara (with Hillary??) and then Biden steps down -- that's not good either
  • Biden somehow makes it into 2023, Kamala steps down, and a Republican Congress insists on some compromise VP, then Biden steps down -- drawing to an inside straight?
Open to other scenarios.
 
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LionDeNittany

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Hard to even see a best case transition.
  • Biden steps down somewhat gracefully in 2022, and Kamala takes office -- not good
  • Biden steps down in 2022, Kamala has also stepped down, and Nancy Pelosi assumes Presidency -- ugh
  • Biden continues to decline, the economy is troubled by inflation and possible recession, international situation goes from bad to worse, and Biden makes it through his term -- can envision the bad news, but I honestly don't see how Biden makes it another 3 years
  • The Dem puppeteers engineer some scenario where they replace Kamara (with Hillary??) and then Biden steps down -- that's not good either
  • Biden somehow makes it into 2023, Kamala steps down, and a Republican Congress insists on some compromise VP, then Biden steps down -- drawing to an inside straight?
Open to other scenarios.

I think they will try to push Hillary in for Kamala. But I think Moochelle insists on an election of some sort.

Senile Joe stepping down will happen over a long period and I don't doubt some sort of popularity contest happening like we have never seen before.

LdN
 

Hotshoe

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We've had various good exchanges on this topic over the last several weeks, and I laid out the reasons why I basically agree with your position on all this. I won't go through it all again.

Trump's instincts were exactly right on the Russia issue, but the Swamp won the day...and Trump simply didn't have the ability or willingness to effectively fight back.

In any event, the irony is that Senile Joe has given the Rooskies a lot more in one year than Trump did in four. The tough guys of Dem-Media, who spent four years inventing a Russia conspiracy, are now pissing their pants in fear and throwing pipelines, summits, and other goodies at Moscow to head off a looming confrontation over Ukraine.

And now Senile Joe has outdone himself by basically green-lighting a "limited incursion" by Russia. This is a gaffe far worse than Gerald Ford's statement in a 1976 presidential debate that the Soviets did not dominate Poland.

The key differences being that Ford was not senile, whereas Joe is, and the media did not run cover for Ford, whereas Dem-Media's propaganda organs will see to it that not too much is made of Biden's idiotic blunder.

I think the only safe bet at this point is that all this is not going to end well for Senile Joe, his puppeteers, and the Regime. The big question now is how bad is it going to be: a mere fiasco...or an existential disaster.
Joe hasn't been right on anything regarding foreign policy in 4 decades. He's dumb as a brick regarding strategy. Although, I believe some of that is probably tied to his connections, interests, and what some may have on him. But hey, he graduated top of his law class at Syracuse, just ask him. In reality, he damn near finished last, and that was after being a fking plagiarist.
 

HartfordLlion

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I highly advise everyone to cool their old school neo con jets. The US has only two interests in Ukraine: corruption for american elites (see hunter biden and Burisma) and sticking it to Russia for an intelligence apparatus that hasn’t accepted Russias diminished status and a MIC and broken regime that wants war for their own reasons.

Instead of saber rattling even more, everyone should be asking why we even care. Whos sons should die to protect hunter bidens paycheck and democrat poll numbers?

The US launched not one but two color revolutions in the country when they elected Russian friendly presidents. The west is the aggressor in the long run. Russia is the immediate aggressor. But it’s a tit for tat that has gone on for decades and was borne out of western imperialism.

Further, if the US deployed troops over there for some reason, Taiwan would be invaded within weeks. The US can’t fight two wars In Asia at the same time. For what? Pride? WE HAVE NO INTEREST IN UKRAINE!!!

US industrial war/weapons complex to a big hit when we pulled out of Afghanistan and they need more revenue making opportunities. I worked for a defense contractor back in the late 80s early 90s. When the Berlin wall fell along with the USSR breakup, sales took a huge hit, significant layoffs soon followed. Peace has it's consequences. Ukraine conflict is a new sales opportunity. Both side of the aisle have their hand in the defense contract cookie jar (read campaign contributions) it not surprising that both side have come out strong against Russian and seem to be willing to commit significant military resources, equipment and likely troops, to the potential conflict. Military contractor can almost hear the money falling out of the sky like coin falling in a big old time slot machine payout
 
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WeR0206

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Mexico has nice weather in the winter.
GNfm9THm1ONQ.jpeg
 

roswelllion

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Hard to even see a best case transition.
  • Biden steps down somewhat gracefully in 2022, and Kamala takes office -- not good
  • Biden steps down in 2022, Kamala has also stepped down, and Nancy Pelosi assumes Presidency -- ugh
  • Biden continues to decline, the economy is troubled by inflation and possible recession, international situation goes from bad to worse, and Biden makes it through his term -- can envision the bad news, but I honestly don't see how Biden makes it another 3 years
  • The Dem puppeteers engineer some scenario where they replace Kamara (with Hillary??) and then Biden steps down -- that's not good either
  • Biden somehow makes it into 2023, Kamala steps down, and a Republican Congress insists on some compromise VP, then Biden steps down -- drawing to an inside straight?
Open to other scenarios.
I can not envision anyway Kamala steps down. So most likely scenario is
Joe gets through mid terms saying he will run again
D's get hammered in mid terms
Joe says he won't run again in time for a Democratic primary
D primary full of progressives allowing a "moderate" D to win nomination. A Tim Kaine type guy.

If Trump wins R nomination it brings out all of TDS and the moderate D's win, if the R's run say a DeSantis the R's win.
 
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The Spin Meister

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An altered state
I can not envision anyway Kamala steps down. So most likely scenario is
Joe gets through mid terms saying he will run again
D's get hammered in mid terms
Joe says he won't run again in time for a Democratic primary
D primary full of progressives allowing a "moderate" D to win nomination. A Tim Kaine type guy.

If Trump wins R nomination it brings out all of TDS and the moderate D's win, if the R's run say a DeSantis the R's win.
That’s one likely scenario. But I doubt he makes it four years. And Kamala running for election as POTUS would make the primaries a knock down drag out fight that will leave serious scars on the party.

If Trump is healthy he will run. If he gets the nomination that would be the one thing to heal and reunite the 🤡 party. If Kamala is his opponent he will win. Against a moderate would be close.

If Trump doesn’t run and DeSantis is the nominee...a Reaganesque landslide.
 
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jrs1024

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Who said anything about not questioning those in the Federal Government?

It's pretty simple. Either we allow Russia to invade neighbors or we dont.

Our stance for over 70 years is we don't.

And we did once. We let Stalin invade and Russia after him destroy the lives of millions of people.

Those days are over.

LdN
Let’s draw this comparison then. Let’s say Russia helps overthrow the government of Mexico and inserts a regime friendly to the Russians and antagonistic to the US. We know they’re doing it. What do we do?

Fortunately, we have a couple pretty good examples of exactly that. Cuba, Panama, Grenada. Even our actions in Venezuela over the last decade or so are relevant. In the first three we invaded (though it didn’t work out so hot with Cuba).

Now fast forward: the ENTIRE reason Russia wants to invade Ukraine is because WE overthrew their Russian friendly governments not once, but twice. That’s why context matters. On its surface, sure, if this came out of nowhere and Russia wanted to invade, let’s say Japan, then yeah that’s a problem and we go to the wall for Japan. But WE created the Ukrainian problem. Twice the people voted in Russian friendly governments. Twice we overthrew them. And, because of history, we know exactly how the US would respond. Even Poland, Baltic States, Romania or Hungary, we step up. Those are NATO states and they’ve been awesome Allies. Ukraine is not that. Ukraine is a festering swamp of corruption and its value to the US is only for elite profiteering. It is not in NATO. It’s not in the EU. It’s always been a Russian dominated area.

So, whatever, we want to be imperial and take over the world so we can wave rainbow flags. Go for it. But do it in a way that risks zero american lives. You want to profit from arms sales, go for it. But just know this conflict is entirely about greed. That’s it.
 
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jrs1024

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I can not envision anyway Kamala steps down. So most likely scenario is
Joe gets through mid terms saying he will run again
D's get hammered in mid terms
Joe says he won't run again in time for a Democratic primary
D primary full of progressives allowing a "moderate" D to win nomination. A Tim Kaine type guy.

If Trump wins R nomination it brings out all of TDS and the moderate D's win, if the R's run say a DeSantis the R's win.
In all likelihood it’s trump…and as of today Trump vs Clinton looks incredibly likely. Would Trump win? Probably. But as someone else put it, if it’s DeSantis vs (insert Dem here) it’s an absolute landslide.
 
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Ski

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That’s one likely scenario. But I doubt he makes it four years. And Kamala running for election as POTUS would make the primaries a knock down drag out fight that will leave serious scars on the party.

If Trump is healthy he will run. If he gets the nomination that would be the one thing to heal and reunite the 🤡 party. If Kamala is his opponent he will win. Against a moderate would be close.

If Trump doesn’t run and DeSantis is the nominee...a Reaganesque landslide.

The Democrats have no moderates unless Manchin has designs on the Presidency. Even he may not win WV against Trump.
 

The Spin Meister

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The Democrats have no moderates unless Manchin has designs on the Presidency. Even he may not win WV against Trump.
But you have the hard core 35% that think Magoo is great. Plus, a large number that hate Trump and would never vote for him. And it’s the Electoral College that counts. If Trump were the nominee, it will be close.
 

Ski

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But you have the hard core 35% that think Magoo is great. Plus, a large number that hate Trump and would never vote for him. And it’s the Electoral College that counts. If Trump were the nominee, it will be close.

Those same hard core 35% of the general electorate make up 70% of the Democrat party. Good luck to any moderate Democrat in the primaries.
 

The Spin Meister

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An altered state
Let’s draw this comparison then. Let’s say Russia helps overthrow the government of Mexico and inserts a regime friendly to the Russians and antagonistic to the US. We know they’re doing it. What do we do?

Fortunately, we have a couple pretty good examples of exactly that. Cuba, Panama, Grenada. Even our actions in Venezuela over the last decade or so are relevant. In the first three we invaded (though it didn’t work out so hot with Cuba).

Now fast forward: the ENTIRE reason Russia wants to invade Ukraine is because WE overthrew their Russian friendly governments not once, but twice. That’s why context matters. On its surface, sure, if this came out of nowhere and Russia wanted to invade, let’s say Japan, then yeah that’s a problem and we go to the wall for Japan. But WE created the Ukrainian problem. Twice the people voted in Russian friendly governments. Twice we overthrew them. And, because of history, we know exactly how the US would respond. Even Poland, Baltic States, Romania or Hungary, we step up. Those are NATO states and they’ve been awesome Allies. Ukraine is not that. Ukraine is a festering swamp of corruption and its value to the US is only for elite profiteering. It is not in NATO. It’s not in the EU. It’s always been a Russian dominated area.

So, whatever, we want to be imperial and take over the world so we can wave rainbow flags. Go for it. But do it in a way that risks zero american lives. You want to profit from arms sales, go for it. But just know this conflict is entirely about greed. That’s it.
If you drawing some equivalencies between US foreign policy and the tragic history of the Soviet Union then our discussion is over.
 

We_Are

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At this point I assume you’re a moron that just says “whataboutism” because you can’t refute a point.
And l'll acknowledge that your cognitive skills rise to just below the level of our current POTUS. I'm pretty sure my original post was about demented Joe Biden telegraphing to this country that he cut a deal with Putin and was to brain addled to realize what he did... I'm also pretty sure you're the "whataboutism" boy that took it down three different rabbit holes from there.
 
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roswelllion

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In all likelihood it’s trump…and as of today Trump vs Clinton looks incredibly likely. Would Trump win? Probably. But as someone else put it, if it’s DeSantis vs (insert Dem here) it’s an absolute landslide.
Clinton is too many what Trump is too many. Poison. Her time has come and gone.