BOHICA:

Discussion in 'BWI / McAndrew Board' started by stormingnorm, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. stormingnorm

    stormingnorm Well-Known Member
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  2. stormingnorm

    stormingnorm Well-Known Member
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    I'm sure our "esteemed" members of the PSU BOT will be right on top of the issue.
    Perhaps one will even suggest that students be required to "Drink more chocolate milk". :rolleyes:
     
  3. PeetzPoolBoy

    PeetzPoolBoy Well-Known Member
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    It would seem to be easy to circumvent the new policy. A student simply gets the cheapest Bronze Plan insurance available, provides evidence of insurance to PSU and then cancels the policy shortly thereafter.
     
  4. stormingnorm

    stormingnorm Well-Known Member
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    Nope.


    Gotta' read the actual PSU requirements. ***


    No one will (more or less - - certainly no one responsible for governance), but if one does...……..



    Of course, the bigger picture is the entire FUBAR of PSU creating a mess by getting involved in things that have NOTHING to do with the Missions of the University (and that we have years of evidence indicating they are incapable of doing without creating a SNAFU)..... but we know that ain't no one concerns themselves with that. :rolleyes:
    Especially when it creates another $15,000,000 to $150,000,000 of additional gross revenue to play with.
    What the hell, its not like University Tuition costs aren't already enough of a burden for the "Sons and Daughters of Pennsylvania".




    *** Here is just part of it. FWIW
    Step 2 - Waiver Questions
    Please answer the following questions to demonstrate that your current coverage meets Penn State’s recommended insurance coverage.

    My Current Policy:

    1.
    Is in effect for the entire 18-19 academic year (8/13/2018 – 8/12/2019).
    Yes
    No
    2.
    Does not have any limitations, waiting periods, or exclusions for pre-existing conditions
    Yes
    No
    3.
    Has network doctors, specialists, hospitals, and other health care providers at the Penn State campus area that I am attending;

    Yes
    No
    4.
    Has coverage for emergencies and non-emergency services such as diagnostic x-ray and lab, physical therapy, urgent care visits, ambulance services, preventative vaccine, and prescription drug coverage;
    Yes
    No
    5.
    Has coverage for inpatient and outpatient hospitalization;
    Yes
    No
    6.
    Has coverage for inpatient and outpatient counseling and mental health services;
    Yes
    No
    7.
    Has coverage for recreational activities (excluding intercollegiate athletics);
    Yes
    No
    8.
    Has coverage for maternity care
    Yes
    No
     
    4 stormingnorm, Jul 10, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  5. Cletus11

    Cletus11 Well-Known Member
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    What will PSU require next that students have in order to be able to enroll. If PSU wanted to help students without insurance get some cheap insurance (ie...just be able to tack onto essentially the existing PSU insurance policy and pay the cost of that policy), that is one thing. But requiring health insurance to enroll, what does that have to do with anything.
     
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  6. stormingnorm

    stormingnorm Well-Known Member
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    BINGO!!!!



    Of course -- Dambly Inc's profits wouldn't benefit as much :)



    If Dambly or Lubert ran Car Dealerships, they would require all students to show "Proof of Reliable Personal transportation", since - after all - it is critical to PSU's Missions that students have reliable and safe transportation to and from campus.

    I'm only half-kidding.




    And just watch to see how on top of things - and how involved and responsible - our esteemed Trustees are.

    LMAO
     
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  7. Art

    Art Well-Known Member
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    Is this the first time that PSU is requiring health insurance for students? If so, I'm surprised. We'd provided evidence of insurance for our children going back quite a way. Can say that we never had to prove a level of insurance dictated by the schools in question, just that they were insured by a reputable company.
     
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  8. stormingnorm

    stormingnorm Well-Known Member
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    previously required for Foreign Students.
    (We could go through PSU’s history of FUBARing that - - - and the Grad Assistant Health Care - - - but that’s another story for another day)



    This deal, though, is a whole ‘nother Ballgame.....
    And every student will be automatically enrolled in the “PSU Plan” (and charged :) ... something on the order of $3,000 ) - beginning in (IIRC) 2019 - unless they can prove that they have coverage that meets PSU “standards” (some of which I included in the post above)


    This is gonna be fun
     
  9. Art

    Art Well-Known Member
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    Again, we went through something similar going back more than ten years ago. The difference, and it can be significant, is that the schools did not dictate coverage parameters.
     
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  10. Nitwit

    Nitwit Well-Known Member
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    Everyone in this country should have health insurance. Healthcare costs in the USA take up 25% of the GDP, yet we lag behind many countries with lower costs in the quality of care, access to care, and life expectancy. I see nothing wrong with requiring coverage or assisting those uninsured students with obtaining a low cost plan.
     
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  11. Art

    Art Well-Known Member
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    $2,600 is not a low cost plan for people in the 17-23 age bracket.
     
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  12. Art

    Art Well-Known Member
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    So, d'ya think the University will self-insure? Nah, that would never happen.:rolleyes:
     
  13. stormingnorm

    stormingnorm Well-Known Member
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    Initially anyway - I believe United Healthcare - but d’ya think that’s gonna change? :rolleyes:



    Does anyone remember who got “3 guaranteed seats in the Board” down at Hershey Medical?




    There are plenty of rea$on$ why we have the BOT Roster that we have here...…. and the "409" stuff doesn't amount to a pimple on an elephants ass.
     
  14. PeetzPoolBoy

    PeetzPoolBoy Well-Known Member
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    But....but....but it's labeled as a "Low-deductible Platinum Plan".:)

    What college student needs a "Platinum Plan"?
     
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  15. Art

    Art Well-Known Member
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    Exactly.
     
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  16. Art

    Art Well-Known Member
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    It says United Healthcare, but a lot of plans have the name of an insurer on it and said insurer is simply a plan administrator. The financial risks and rewards are borne by the employer or, in this case, a school.
     
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  17. stormingnorm

    stormingnorm Well-Known Member
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    Thanks.


    I’ve got a lot of “reading up” to do on this.
     
  18. cvilleelkscoach

    cvilleelkscoach Well-Known Member
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    This is not a surprise. Many universities have this requirement including OSU.
     
  19. Art

    Art Well-Known Member
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    What surprises me is that PSU took so long to get around to it. I do find the description of the "resources" PSU will offer students to help deal with the financing of this requirement amusing. No doubt, that's because I'm nothing more than a spectator.
     
  20. stormingnorm

    stormingnorm Well-Known Member
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    Yep…. basically:

    "We'll gouge you again.... but then we will "counsel" you on how to best file for Bankruptcy"
     
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  21. Nitwit

    Nitwit Well-Known Member
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    Not really. The bankruptcy comes after an uninsured student gets appendicitis or gets into a car accident. Try paying a hospital bill if you’re uninsured. Oh yeah, they’re all young and therefore healthy, so no worries.
     
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  22. Ten Thousan Marbles

    Ten Thousan Marbles Well-Known Member
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    Isn't there a larger discussion to be had here?
     
  23. Art

    Art Well-Known Member
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    Maybe PSU should require PIP coverage, too, and make available a "low cost" alternative to those students who don't have it or aren't, in PSU's estimation, adequately covered.
     
  24. Ten Thousan Marbles

    Ten Thousan Marbles Well-Known Member
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    This makes sense, because many and/or most foreign students and their families would not have had to purchase health insurance previously in their lives
     
  25. PeetzPoolBoy

    PeetzPoolBoy Well-Known Member
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    That’s why they apply for (and get auto-approved) highly-subsidized, after-the-incident insurance without any limitations as to pre-existing conditions:)
     
    25 PeetzPoolBoy, Jul 10, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  26. Keyser Soze 16801

    Keyser Soze 16801 Well-Known Member
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    [QUOTE="stormingnorm, post: 3541600, member: 83369"

    If Dambly or Lubert ran Car Dealerships, they would require all students to show "Proof of Reliable Personal transportation", since - after all - it is critical to PSU's Missions that students have reliable and safe transportation to and from campus.

    [/QUOTE]

    Of what health care companies are they owners? I loathe those 2 but is there any actual evidence that they or other trustees will benefit from this change?
     
  27. Art

    Art Well-Known Member
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    Of what health care companies are they owners? I loathe those 2 but is there any actual evidence that they or other trustees will benefit from this change?[/QUOTE]

    Evidence? If there is, they didn't do a particularly good job of hiding it.
     
  28. stormingnorm

    stormingnorm Well-Known Member
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    LOL.


    “Missed it by THAT much” again NitWit


    “There is hereby erected and established, at the place which shall be designated by the authority, and as hereinafter provided, an institution for the education of youth in the various branches of science, learning and practical agriculture, as they are connected with each other, by the name, style, and title of The Pennsylvania State University.”


    (Is even this topic going to be monkey-humped by the “R” v “D” circle-jerk cluster?)
     
    28 stormingnorm, Jul 10, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  29. Ten Thousan Marbles

    Ten Thousan Marbles Well-Known Member
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    Root cause?
     
  30. 83wuzme

    83wuzme Well-Known Member
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    I can see this with students who are minors. But why should a University assume a parental role with persons who are not minors ?
     
  31. Nittany Ziggy

    Nittany Ziggy Well-Known Member
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    Is it possible that, maybe, just maybe, we would all be better off if nobody had insurance and we had market driven prices instead of prices negotiated by lowlife, scumbag attorneys from companies drawing billions of dollars of premiums from disparate client bases?

    Why does a visit to the dermatologist cost $500.00 if you are uninsured but the $500.00 is reduced to $75.00 ($35 co-pay, the rest covered by insurance) if you have a health insurance plan? There are no economies of scale involved here. The doctor looked at the pimple and gave you a shot to fix it. In one case, $500. In the other $75 (with a copay of $35 and the rest covered by Aetna). How is that right? It is the attorneys and insurance men driving up the costs for the uninsured.
     
    31 Nittany Ziggy, Jul 10, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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  32. Nitwit

    Nitwit Well-Known Member
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    It is possible because Aetna has negotiated rates of compensation to thousands of networks of physicians and can cover their costs through the payment of premiums by the insured they represent. The individual uninsured have no leverage in an open market.

    If no one had health insurance only the rich would be able to receive medical care. The system is broken as I said in an earlier post about costs and quality, but it won’t get fixed by eliminating coverage. That is a gross over simplification to a a very complex public policy issue. Look at the differences in England between private coverage and the national health system. Do you really want to queue up for months waiting for an operation? Care will always go to those who can afford to pay, and won’t go to those you can’t. Same with drugs, medical devices, and disease research. We are better off with a single payer system with universal coverage, than a system where no one is insured and most would not be able to afford high quality medical care, the drugs and medical devices they need to survive, or the research to prevent and cure their diseases. When you have a heart attack, are you going to shop for the lowest cost Dr. to revive you? I hear there is a quack on the corner who will give you an oxygen tube for only $39.95. Maybe you can do better at Costco. They are running a special on coronary bypasses this week. Good luck with that.
     
    32 Nitwit, Jul 10, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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  33. Nittany Ziggy

    Nittany Ziggy Well-Known Member
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  34. Nitwit

    Nitwit Well-Known Member
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    What I said was that Aetna negotiated the lower price for its insured population. If you’re uninsured you’re not eligible for the lower price. You are on your own. So maybe you can get a flu shot cheaper at CVS than your Dr will charge, but mostly a single uninsured individual has no negotiating strength for what he will be charged for medical care. A physicians network or hospital will negotiate with Aetna because it gives them access thousands of patients, but it doesn’t care about a single patient acting indivually.
     
    34 Nitwit, Jul 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  35. Art

    Art Well-Known Member
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    Believe the question here is why will the same doctor who ordinarily charges $500 for a procedure accept $75 for the same procedure? In this case there is no qualitative difference (same doctor, same timing). There is more to it than the doctor having "access" to a larger patient pool. Presumably he achieves an acceptable return at the lower price.
     
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  36. Nitwit

    Nitwit Well-Known Member
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    He charges $500 because he can. It’s simple as that. He has no incentive to lower the price for an uninsured patient.
     
  37. stormingnorm

    stormingnorm Well-Known Member
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    There are plenty of logical, fundamentally-sound, economically and socially beneficial arguments that can be made that:

    A) A single-source comprehensive program could be an effective system wrt providing a payment framework for medical expenses.


    There are plenty of logical, fundamentally-sound, economically and socially beneficial arguments that can be made that:

    B) A payee-payer system that is as "direct" as possible between the individual provider and the individual recipient is an effective system wrt providing a payment framework for medical expenses.


    Of course, after decades of partisan, idiotic, under-informed, intellectually-FUBAR partisan bullsh^t (did I say "partisan"? :) )….. driven by "MEME-level" discourse, we - as a nation - tend to have the worst aspects of each concept, rather than the most beneficial elements of each.
    To the point where the "system" is choking to death on its own incompetence.

    Gee.... what a shocker :rolleyes: .... that having partisan, ill-informed, self-interest-first-and-foremost, driven leadership - - - - - and intellectually-lacking participation - - - - would lead to such an outcome.

    That is all. :)
     
  38. Art

    Art Well-Known Member
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    How many patients do you believe the doctor receives $500 from? Answer: none or close to it. Most have insurance. Those that don't because they can't afford it also can't afford the $500 fee (ever notice how the doctor's office confirms insurance coverage before your visit?).
     
  39. Art

    Art Well-Known Member
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    The bigger problem is that the consumer of medical services in large part has no idea what he's paying for them and that results in sub-optimal decision making and resource allocation.
     
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  40. ForesterGump

    ForesterGump Well-Known Member
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    I remember when there wasn't much insurance. I think my Dad got it in the late '50s or early '60s. It was hospitalization insurance back then. It wasn't a catchall medical, dental, vision plan. We could afford to go to the doctor's office, as he wasn't burdened by all the bureaucracy that went on. His office visit was $3 and he would see the whole family for that, and give you the drugs. He would come to the house for $5. Patient treatment was between the doctor and the patient. Outcomes were pretty good, considering the technology of the time.

    When insurance started to cover everything, costs escalated. The primary reason is that they industrialized medical care. Patient care and treatment is no longer between the doctor and patient, but between the doctor and the insurance company. Drug companies used the same avenue to push more drugs on the consumer. The consumer didn't object since there was no money out of pocket. Doctors used more tests to protect their butts, and because those tests can also be an income generator. If you can get someone else to pay the bill, who cares?

    The only time in this century that the rate of increase in medical costs slowed down was during the Recession. Amazing. The reason was fewer people had insurance. Making insurance either single payer or mandatory increases demand without increasing supply. Costs must go up.

    There are doctors that are starting to go into the direct primary care business model. They are not taking insurance, and they have reduced their costs by up to 40%. For better service, people can go to concierge doctors. They may or may not take insurance, but there is an annual fee. I'm also hearing that its cheaper to buy some of the drugs without insurance.

    I'm not saying that insurance should be abolished. I think you need catastrophic insurance. Whether there's insurance or not, rich people will always have the best care.
     
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