Black Shoe Diaries article

[Tom McAndrew]

Nittany Lion Wrestlers Excel on Freestyle Circuit

Perhaps this is BSD restarting their weekly wrestling update; not sure. The article looks at what PSUers have been doing in recent months in freestyle. Not anything new that we haven't discussed, but nice to see it in one place. The article also takes a stab at prognosticating next season's lineup. Again, nothing new, but nice to read/discuss.

enjoy

 

[Sean Harp]

Thanks Tom. Good article. The only head-scratcher was this sentence:

"If Cael Sanderson really wanted to prove he owns the wrestling world, he could bump Bo Nickal up to 184 lbs, and Joseph to 174, making room for Mark Hall to wrestle at 165lb and creating a lineup where, barring injuries, a 6th title in 7 years could be a mere formality."

In fairness, the author did advise not to hold your breath when it comes to Hall wrestling this year (agreed). If, big IF, Hall wrestled this year, Joseph would be the 165, not Hall. Can't find the quote but I do believe that Hall is on record stating that 165 would be a tough cut for an entire season.

***CONJECTURE ALERT***

Just spitballing but my guess is that Hall's participation plays out like this:

Grayshirt, 174, Redshirt, 184 (bear with me), 174, 174.

While Manville goes Grayshirt, Redshirt, 157, 165, 165, 165.

Lineup Proj, 157 through 184:

16/17: Nolf, Joseph, Nickal, Mouse (Rasheed)
17/18: Nolf, Joseph, Hall, Nickal
18/19: Manville, Nolf, Joseph, Nickal
19/20: JLee, Manville, Joseph, Hall,
20/21: JLee, Manville, Hall, ?
21/22: JLee, Manville, Hall, ?

Thoughts?

 

[tikk10]

Thanks Tom. Good article. The only head-scratcher was this sentence:

"If Cael Sanderson really wanted to prove he owns the wrestling world, he could bump Bo Nickal up to 184 lbs, and Joseph to 174, making room for Mark Hall to wrestle at 165lb and creating a lineup where, barring injuries, a 6th title in 7 years could be a mere formality."

In fairness, the author did advise not to hold your breath when it comes to Hall wrestling this year (agreed). If, big IF, Hall wrestled this year, Joseph would be the 165, not Hall. Can't find the quote but I do believe that Hall is on record stating that 165 would be a tough cut for an entire season.

***CONJECTURE ALERT***

Just spitballing but my guess is that Hall's participation plays out like this:

Grayshirt, 174, Redshirt, 184 (bear with me), 174, 174.

While Manville goes Grayshirt, Redshirt, 157, 165, 165, 165.

Lineup Proj, 157 through 184:

16/17: Nolf, Joseph, Nickal, Mouse (Rasheed)
17/18: Nolf, Joseph, Hall, Nickal
18/19: Manville, Nolf, Joseph, Nickal
19/20: JLee, Manville, Joseph, Hall,
20/21: JLee, Manville, Hall, ?
21/22: JLee, Manville, Hall, ?

Thoughts?

Yeah, I thought the same thing. Also thought his characterization of 157 as stacked was a bit off. With IMar bumping up I can't think of a guy Nolf can't bonus at 157.

 

[El-Jefe]

If Wittlake (2018) commits to PSU, then 2020 would be his RSFR year at 184, and he would be the "?" in 2021 and 2022.

 

[LemonPie]

Joseph at 174, Hall at 184? No way. You really think Manville will prove to be so talented? He's simply doesnt fit. He can sit for 3-4 years, or he can transfer.

 

[burnsie1983]

I'm not sure why many are so down on Manville. He's an elite talent. He may not be Mark Hall, but he's a tremendous wrestler. He'll have to earn his spot just like everyone else, and I'm sure Cael will do whatever he needs to in order to put the best product out there.

 

[El-Jefe]

I'm not sure why many are so down on Manville. He's an elite talent. He may not be Mark Hall, but he's a tremendous wrestler. He'll have to earn his spot just like everyone else, and I'm sure Cael will do whatever he needs to in order to out the best product out there.

Don't pay attention to that poster. With him, every silver lining has a cloud.

 

[jschrantz]

I'm not sure why many are so down on Manville. He's an elite talent. He may not be Mark Hall, but he's a tremendous wrestler. He'll have to earn his spot just like everyone else, and I'm sure Cael will do whatever he needs to in order to out the best product out there.

Don't pay attention to that poster. With him, every silver lining has a cloud.

That poster is a Clown

 

[jschrantz]

If Wittlake (2018) commits to PSU, then 2020 would be his RSFR year at 184, and he would be the "?" in 2021 and 2022.

Or Beard

 

[El-Jefe]

Or Beard

Maybe, though he was at 182 this past year as a HS SO. So he seems more likely to be a college 197, with 3 years (2 + a shirt) of lifting weights.

If we're fortunate enough to land both, then Beard almost certainly will be the 197 -- Wittlake was at 160 this past year.

 

[burnsie1983]

Don't pay attention to that poster. With him, every silver lining has a cloud.

You're right, I didn't even pay attention to the source. It still seems people aren't as high on Manville as some other recruits though.

 

[Onceafish]

I think the Pie guy beats up on Manville so often in this and other forums that it just seems like a lot of people are down on him.

 

[RoarLions1]

Joseph at 174, Hall at 184? No way. You really think Manville will prove to be so talented? He's simply doesnt fit. He can sit for 3-4 years, or he can transfer.

Don't pay attention to that poster. With him, every silver lining has a cloud.

Not it at all for me, El-Jefe. I get it that all of us are different, and there's many-a-cup that is half-empty, but I'm a fan of the fans, and it's flat out wrong to post that garbage about an 18-22 year old.

 

[KidNittany]

Not it at all for me, El-Jefe. I get it that all of us are different, and there's many-a-cup that is half-empty, but I'm a fan of the fans, and it's flat out wrong to post that garbage about an 18-22 year old.

Also kind of impossible to project a kid's weight class in what, 3 years?

If he's at 57 he'll start for two years (Joe Lee could be at 49, who knows if Lee could beat Mason at 57 anyway). 65, one. He wants to be here because he knows this is the best place for him to succeed in reaching his dreams. And even if he doesn't see the mat, the team is built on wrestlers like him who want to be part of a winning program. Of course, we always throw those guys to the side because they don't get the headlines - but they are really the testament to the success of what has transpired in the last 7 years.

Happy to have Mason and very excited to see him in Blue and White. He made the right decision.

 

[dunkej01]

Mason may suprise us annoymous posters with his path. If he doesn't he will be better for the experience and so will those around him. Because I think he is a heckuva talent.
To be the man you must beat the man. In this sport it boils down to that. One of the things I love about it.

 

[Brian LB-U]

I'm not sure why many are so down on Manville. He's an elite talent. He may not be Mark Hall, but he's a tremendous wrestler. He'll have to earn his spot just like everyone else, and I'm sure Cael will do whatever he needs to in order to put the best product out there.

It doesn't help when you have Willie all but writing the poor kid off as a likely transfer before he even has a chance to matriculate.

 

[jschrantz]

It doesn't help when you have Willie all but writing the poor kid off as a likely transfer before he even has a chance to matriculate.

Willie thinks Manville won't stay with PSU? Smalls?

 

[Brian LB-U]

Willie thinks Manville won't stay with PSU? Smalls?

Yes, his post below comes from HR board. Being that we're talking about a high school kid who's following a dream, I think its unfair to Manville and unprofessional....

smalls103 said: ↑
Manville absolutely, positively can not be evaluated as a #5 prospect. Yes he's that good. but no, your average #5 prospect doesn't sit on the bench for 2 years minimum. Nolf was a 4. Nickal was a 6. And under the circumstances, I don't even think he'll be there long.

even if he is - 2 years of starting service is not #5 type stuff.

NC State brought in two top tens and has a potential to get 7 starters out of the class.

frankly, it's a no brainer.

 

[jschrantz]

Cu

Yes, his post below comes from HR board. Being that we're talking about a high school kid who's following a dream, I think its unfair to Manville and unprofessional....

smalls103 said: ↑
Manville absolutely, positively can not be evaluated as a #5 prospect. Yes he's that good. but no, your average #5 prospect doesn't sit on the bench for 2 years minimum. Nolf was a 4. Nickal was a 6. And under the circumstances, I don't even think he'll be there long.

even if he is - 2 years of starting service is not #5 type stuff.

NC State brought in two top tens and has a potential to get 7 starters out of the class.

frankly, it's a no brainer.

Curious why Mason can't start more than 2 years if he takes a redshirt and greyshirt? Thanks for the info Brian

 

[Ames2State]

Hate to burst your high hopes on Manville, but he will have little to no impact on the lineup ever. He is a mere afterthought in the offices at Rec Hall.
PSU got the kid for free.

 

[tomsc]

Hate to burst your high hopes on Manville, but he will have little to no impact on the lineup ever. He is a mere afterthought in the offices at Rec Hall.
PSU got the kid for free.

Well, I guess that answers the question of whether Ames2 = Cael. Ames2 does seem to have good information, but Cael would NEVER have posted that that way!

 

[PSU Mike]

Hate to burst your high hopes on Manville, but he will have little to no impact on the lineup ever. He is a mere afterthought in the offices at Rec Hall.
PSU got the kid for free.

Interesting. I have often wondered if he weren't already close to maxed out.

 

[tikk10]

Think the offices at Rec Hall would've wanted that information disclosed on a message board?

 

[garw]

So Ames what does the lineup look like? Why even allow the kid to commit if your point is true? Gotta admit there is a lot of kids vying in the middle weights. Interesting for sure.

 

[burnsie1983]

I'd like to believe that the coaches don't treat any athlete as an afterthought....

 

[RoarLions1]

I'd like to believe that the coaches don't treat any athlete as an afterthought....

Assuming you're talking about the "wrestling" coaches , I will say from observation that they do not...though tough love is possible.

 

[Ames2State]

I am not a coach nor affiliated with The Pennsylvania State University. I will state my source is undefeated when it comes to providing information.

 

[burnsie1983]

Your info adds a lot to the board, thanks. I just thought the Manville info was coarsely worded. I'd love to see him progress once in the room, and see what happens!

 

[garw]

Thanks Ames. With Nolf, Cenzo, Hall etc I am curious where the guy slots. This doesn't even include Bo, Mouse and Rasheed. Great problem for us to have however it shakes out.

 

[PSUAllTheWay]

Manville is not an afterthought. Period. The coaches get paid to win and are going to work hard with every single wrestler, whether they are on scholarship or not, to maximize their potential. Manville will be given every opportunity (just like everyone else) to TAKE a spot away from others. It's dog eat dog in the PSU room and may the best man win.

jeff

 

[jschrantz]

W

Thanks Ames. With Nolf, Cenzo, Hall etc I am curious where the guy slots. This doesn't even include Bo, Mouse and Rasheed. Great problem for us to have however it shakes out.

Nolf at 157 will eventually graduate I hate to admit opening up 157. I'm not sure if Joe Lee is better than Mason Manville and who knows how it shakes out.

 

[LemonPie]

Hate to burst your high hopes on Manville, but he will have little to no impact on the lineup ever. He is a mere afterthought in the offices at Rec Hall.
PSU got the kid for free.

Lemon Pie's redemption

 

[Sean Harp]

Assuming you're talking about the "wrestling" coaches , I will say from observation that they do not...though tough love is possible.

Perhaps some tough love led Mason to apologize to Hayden Hidlay and the wrestling community after his finals loss at Fargo last year: Link

Regardless, he won me over by nutting up and owning his mistake. He seems like a good kid and I was happy for him when he got off the Schneid vs Hidlay at WNO