So, a university who doesn't like to make it cheaper for the students is making an excuse and calling it recruiting. That's your reasoning?
Barron to the state legislature on the budget
- Thread starter Nitwit
- Start date
So, a university who doesn't like to make it cheaper for the students is making an excuse and calling it recruiting. That's your reasoning?
What are you talking about? When did I say anything about an excuse? I said Alabama has made the decision to use merit based scholarships to recruit good students from around the country that otherwise would probably not be going to Alabama. That is their plan to raise the academic profile of the college. Simple as that
It still is a good deal when compared to private universities. Remember they are competing for many of the same students. Public colleges don’t exist in a vacuum. Would you rather pay $50K for Gettysburg? My neighbor who lives in Pa sent his first two kids to Loyola of Md at $45,000 and the next child got into PSU’s Schreyers Honors College and got a much better education for 1/3 of the price. His last kid, a high school Junior, is now comparing PSU, Cornell, and Drexel. He can afford any of them but considers PSU the best value. Cornell and Drexel both cost about $50k in tuition.
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fy2018
Budgeted Annual State Appropriations (millions)
Illinois $ 588,994
Indiana $ 576,597
Iowa $ 216,800
Maryland (College Park only) $ 514,351
Michigan - all campuses $ 363,072
Michigan State $ 281,000
Minnesota $ 650,900
Nebraska $ 566,803
Ohio State - consolidated $ 383,662
Penn State - all in $ 318,223
Purdue - all campuses $ 419,021
Rutgers - all campuses and Medical Center $ 433,971
Wisconsin - Madison Only $ 456,000
Budgeted Annual State Appropriations (millions)
Illinois $ 588,994
Indiana $ 576,597
Iowa $ 216,800
Maryland (College Park only) $ 514,351
Michigan - all campuses $ 363,072
Michigan State $ 281,000
Minnesota $ 650,900
Nebraska $ 566,803
Ohio State - consolidated $ 383,662
Penn State - all in $ 318,223
Purdue - all campuses $ 419,021
Rutgers - all campuses and Medical Center $ 433,971
Wisconsin - Madison Only $ 456,000
I don't know what he's going to do when he "grows up" but neither did I until just a few years ago. The bottom line is that he's getting a great education, and will most definitely contribute to society in some way, without the burden of massive debt. My point was that other schools are actively recruiting the best and brightest, and offering significant financial aid as an incentive. Penn State offered him almost nothing.
It’s $5000 per year now. This girl doesn’t want to be more than a few hours away from home plus her older sister had such a great experience at PSU and is now working at one of the top architectural firms in Philadelphia. All his kids were very good students. I suspect she will wind up there.
Are there? I never said PSU should have offered my son a free ride. My point was that there are other schools out there competing with PSU for quality kids, and winning. Something like 60% of UA Freshman are out of state, and a lot of them are from the northeast.
Competition almost always benefits the customer so hooray for competition.
Hats off to Bama where the bosses are aggressively seeking great students. This will pay off down the road in terms of reputation, rankings, donations, etc.
Are you confident with Barron and Co. deciding how PSU will be competitive for students in the years ahead?
Me either!
Hats off to Bama where the bosses are aggressively seeking great students. This will pay off down the road in terms of reputation, rankings, donations, etc.
Are you confident with Barron and Co. deciding how PSU will be competitive for students in the years ahead?
Me either!
It's nice if you don't increase tuition but that doesn't change the fact that it's still very high.
My guess is that a lot of the spending is fixed (buildings, utilities, employment contracts, interest) and are difficult to cut at this point.
How can NY offer free SUNY tuition?
Did I say that arts & sciences are not important? Did I imply a lack of understanding?
Most arts and sciences require an advanced degree that is specific to the intended employment. That's a lot of education, years, and expense, so one might want to be sure that there will be a market/demand in the field of pursuit. I am just wondering what that would be in this case. Geography has always been very interesting to me, but so is Ufology.
Like it or not, unless one is wealthy or an entrepreneur, at present employers are the ones who set the training requirements.
The data doesn’t support Barron. He’s spinning. Costs are going up everywhere but sadly PSU was out front in raising tuition before the latest bubble.
I’m sick and tired of fighting the same gdamn fight over and over with these stuffed shirts. Our leaders blame the state because it’s a political argument while our administration grows in numbers year after year. It’s a trough.
Meanwhile cut thru the tuition spin. It costs more than 50k to attend PSU as an out of state undergrad. Instate rates are way beyond the norm. I have four kids and I make a nice living and there is no way in hell im paying that number at PSU when my kids can get better student to teacher ratios, better dorms, better advising support all at a lower cost at other state schools in other states.
That started back around 2009 when my daughter went there. She also received a full ride for their engineering college and we live in Ohio. She was a very good student and had plenty of schools to choose from but choose Bama for the warm weather
and no cost education. That was also the time they spent Big money on their engineering college and wanted to attract a lot of out of state students. They recruit pretty hard here in Cincinnati.
Thanks for sharing your effort with us. I SINCERELY appreciate it.Since this thread started wrt the "State Appropriation":
State Appropriation numbers for BigTen Universities (for the last fiscal year):
State Appropriations: BigTen Universities
Illinois: $221 MM
Link: https://www.obfs.uillinois.edu/common/pages/DisplayFile.aspx?itemId=853507
Iowa: $217 MM https://fmb.fo.uiowa.edu/sites/fmb.fo.uiowa.edu/files/wysiwyg_uploads/Budget%20Spreadsheet%20-%20FY18.pdf
Maryland: $514 MM
Link:http://otcads.umd.edu/bfa/budgetinfo3.htm
Michigan: $315 MM
Link: http://www.provost.umich.edu/budgeting/budget_2017-2018.html
Michigan State: $280 MM
Link: https://opb.msu.edu/functions/budget/news.html
Nebraska: $161 MM
Link: https://nebraska.edu/docs/budget/GOB_2018.pdf
Ohio State: $384 MM
Link: https://busfin.osu.edu/sites/default/files/fy18_budget_book_-_final.pdf
Purdue: $328 MM
Link: https://www.purdue.edu/business/budgetfp/Operating Budget/index.html
Rutgers: $198 MM
Link: https://budget.rutgers.edu/fiscal-year-budget
AVG:
$291 MM
PSU was at - IIRC - around $325 MM
Penn State's allocation would be 3rd or 4th highest (out of 10), depending on if it is over or under Purdue's $328MM (its close)
Breaking those figures down on a "per-in-state-student" basis would also serve some illumination.
As would an overlay of appropriation vs net tuition cost per student.
(But I'm not gonna' attach a huge spreadsheet here
Does not include:
Northwestern (obviously
Indiana (Their budget documents required a "password" to access, at least from what I found. I did not go through the process of obtaining a password)
Minnesota and Wisconsin (All of the budget data I found for them was on a State-Wide basis, ie - similar to having the total allocation for PSU/Pitt/Temple/Lincoln. I have not found 2017-18 data broken down specifically for UW-Madison and UM-Twin Cities.... but I'll update if I find it.)
And that is why most of the research people that are in many of PSU's best programs are Asian and not from Ohio, Maryland, New Jersey, New York or West Virginia.
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Unless I missed that the incoming class size has dramatically dropped off, yes there are.
Either way, in re-reading my post it came across as more condescending than I intended. Congrats to you and your son and good for Bama for trying to improve their incoming student profile
We have a law requiring 81% in-state enrollment at UNC. As the flagship university of only 16,000 students, its managed appropriately. Plus, that appropriation is for the UNC system of which there are several schools. In any event, its managed here and not ridiculously expensive. The same cannot be said for PSU. We in the alumni association knew there were major issues coming back in the early 2000s. The bureaucracy at PSU has been spiraling out of control and look who pays for it.
Inventing facts out of thin air always makes for a strong argument.
It is a fact that I observed this when I was a student at PSU about 50 years ago. I didn't say I did a survey, performed a statistical analysis of the results, and reached conclusions. My opinion is anecdotal. It wasn't invented but may not be conclusive. Other people I have talked with have made the same observation.
Many liberal arts majors (economics, English, labor relations, communications, political science) go on to graduate or professional schools after graduation and get law degrees or some other advanced degree. I wouldn’t be too quick to criticize. I’ve found that they are much better writers then those with a technical background. If they’re smart, things tend to work out career wise.
I agree with what you say. I just recall going to many frat parties in the 1960s. When I talked with guys who drank their way through school and asked what their major was the response invariably was "sociology", "psychology", "art history", etc. Very rarely was the response "mechanical engineering", "physics", "math", etc. Maybe I just encountered outliers.
I don’t doubt that they partied more than the engineering majors. I’m just saying that a Liberal Arts education often leads to a successful post graduate career. Perhaps they were more socially adept.
Sorry Nitwit - I dig your sense(s?) of humor and style but to make this (highlighted above) error while talking about being a good writer requires a flag. 15 yards, first and ten from the spot of the foul! Carry On!
The problem with Liberal Arts degrees is that graduate school (often a doctorate) is mandatory for a decent job. Liberal Arts graduates with a BS degree usually end up with a minimum wage job or no job at all. Except for the personal edification aspect a BS in Liberal Arts is useless.
Since it is reasonable to conclude that the PSU governance and administrative cabal value our Big Ten membership over basic human decency, I would simply ask Dr. Barron why there is such disparity between us and our Big Ten brethren as illustrated by @stormingnorm.
I’m disappointed that Penn State doesn’t have the highest out-of-state tuition among b1g schools. barren needs to work on that.
The Red Faced Barron is controlling costs by eating at Ryans, Old Country, and China Palace every chance he gets.
Well. I guess that settles it. Mark Cuban thinks a degree in Philosophy is worth more than a STEM degree. Mark Cuban is always right. Every Mechanical Engineering major should immediately switch to Philosophy. That is where the big bucks can be found.
Well it is probably somewhere in the middle. I think LA grads need to work harder to market themselves but their skills are in demand. I would encourage a student looking to earn a liberal arts degree to use community college credits, CLEP, earn credits via internships, etc and then then look for a state university to finish off their degree.
Philosophy majors are in demand also btw...
The demise of the liberal arts is greatly exaggerated, students just need to be more agile and market themselves and pick up transferable skills.
https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2015/09/philosophy-majors-out-earn-other-humanities/403555/
You make a compelling argument. I'm old. My frame of reference is the 1960s. Back then Liberal Arts degrees were useless. Also, I have a daughter with a BS in Psychology. She graduated with honors in the mid-1990s. The degree has been useless to her. Maybe times are changing.
Cuban is right in the sense that market demand will change, but I'm not sure Philosophy will be among the winners. Today's BS/MS engineers and computer scientists will be tomorrow's technicians and low level programmers. Off-shoring to cheap labor markets like India will continue.
So what will be left? Hard to say, but those at the pinnacle of science and technology -- with the most advanced degrees -- will be in demand. Otherwise, I'm betting on a new degree in mental telepathy to be in high demand. That's how aliens communicate and we will need to pick their brains to get after that zero-point free energy technology.
So what will be left? Hard to say, but those at the pinnacle of science and technology -- with the most advanced degrees -- will be in demand. Otherwise, I'm betting on a new degree in mental telepathy to be in high demand. That's how aliens communicate and we will need to pick their brains to get after that zero-point free energy technology.
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