Yes I saw how you removed 2000. The point stands: we had 2 great years, and either underachieved or had losing seasons the rest of the time. That wasn't PSU football from 66-00. Yippee.
Are CJF's recruiting classes different than JVP classes, and if so; how?
- Thread starter Jerademan74
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Yes I saw how you removed 2000. The point stands: we had 2 great years, and either underachieved or had losing seasons the rest of the time. That wasn't PSU football from 66-00. Yippee.
Nice post - I will add that not only did Joe stop recruiting, he allowed a significant number of his assistants to stay home, too. If I remember correctly, I don't think either Galen Hall (offensive coordinator) or Dick Anderson (o-line and tight end coach) recruited in their last years on staff, either. You had four guys recruiting for the most part - Bradley, LJ, Vanderlinden, and Kenney.
Under Franklin, EVERYBODY recruits!
well I picked those season (01-11) responding to your 'Joe circa 2000-2011' recruiting remark. I figured the recruiting class of 2000 would be ready to go by 2001, so that's why I left out 2000, which is 1 class not three.
well you do know the recruiting rules were different in that time than they are now, don't you? well of course you do. For the record, at that period in time, only 7 of the 9 full time coaches were aloud to be on the road recruiting (now they all can). Many programs organized their recruiting this way. Norm Chow never went on the road at USC. It was an accommodation programs made to some of their older coaches.
either underachieved or had losing seasonings? you make stuff up. 9-4 aint an under achievement. You seem to forget about 2009, 3 top tens in 11 yrs. I hope CJF does as well.
2001 Penn State 5–6 4–4 T–4th
2002 Penn State 9–4 5–3 11th 4th L Capital One 15 16
2003 Penn State 3–9 1–7 T–8th
2004 Penn State 4–7 2–6 9th
2005 Penn State 11–1 7–1 T–1st W Orange† 3 3
2006 Penn State 9–4 5–3 T–4th W Outback 25 24
2007 Penn State 9–4 4–4 T–5th W Alamo 25
2008 Penn State 11–2 7–1 T–1st L Rose† 8 8
2009 Penn State 11–2 6–2 T–2nd W Capital One 8 9
2010 Penn State 7–6 4–4 T–4th L Outback
2011 Penn State 8–1[n 1] 5–0 [n 1] (Leaders)[n 1]
9-4 with terrible results against OSU/UM is absolutely an underachievement at Penn State. Look at the difference in records/win % before and after 2000. 2009 we lost at home to Iowa and got our near-annual beatdown from OSU, also at home. Not exactly what I'd call a homerun season but ok.
Once Tressel came to OSU he did a great job of putting a fence around that state where little if any top talent got out. If it did it was the exception rather than the rule.
When Phil wrote about PSU'S dark times the beginning of this century he bought up PSU'S inability to recruit Ohio.
I agree with all of that except for your prediction that we'll win at least a few MNCs over the next 10 years. PSU would have to play well above its recruiting rankings to accomplish that.
2001-2004 were certainly pathetic but from 2005 until Joe was fired in 2011 the team averaged nearly 10 wins per season with 2 BiG titles. And the cupboards would not have been bare if not for the sanctions. Just think about our 8-4 team in 2011 if we still had Redd, Fortt, Brown, Fera, etc. That team could have finished with 10-12 wins and a good shot at a BiG title.
And he wasn't able to beat Michigan, OSU and Iowa. He got out worked but was too selfish to get out.
That's fair, but we were still owned by the big boys in the conference. To me, with the way CJF is recruiting and the positive momentum and vibes we have, this move back into the elite is more sustainable where 9-4 is disappointing (as it was from 67-99).
I think one thing nobody is noting is that the number of high end D1 players from PA is shrinking.
We're very close to being back, but I see no reason to bash Joe. The class he was putting together before the shit storm hit was top ten. Yes, he was limited in what he could really do, but if the assistants could get the kids and their moms on campus, Joe still had it.
Franklin is doing a great job evaluating talent and he's had a huge rebuild to accomplish. A good season this fall and this class should be one of the best we've had in many, many years.
The future is unbelievably bright, but we should never forget that he's selling what Joe built. If CJF didn't have the BOT sabotaging the program, we'd already be on top of the mountain.
A bigger problem for Joe's later teams was in developing talent, especially along the OL and at QB.
We're very close to being back, but I see no reason to bash Joe. The class he was putting together before the shit storm hit was top ten. Yes, he was limited in what he could really do, but if the assistants could get the kids and their moms on campus, Joe still had it.
Franklin is doing a great job evaluating talent and he's had a huge rebuild to accomplish. A good season this fall and this class should be one of the best we've had in many, many years.
The future is unbelievably bright, but we should never forget that he's selling what Joe built. If CJF didn't have the BOT sabotaging the program, we'd already be on top of the mountain.
A bigger problem for Joe's later teams was in developing talent, especially along the OL and at QB.
We won 2 BiG titles in Joe's last 5 seasons. But I agree about CJF's positive momentum.
PSU continued to have top LBs and DL but QBs were a mixed bag. Morelli was average at best. Bolden & Jones really struggled. Mills was really good until he got hurt. MRob struggled early but wound up being great as a senior. Clark also had a couple of really good years.
Good points on the talent in PA dwindling as that is the truth. PSU is more dependent upon the DMV, NJ, and that 400-500 mile circle now more than ever. The thing is you cannot compare CJF to Joe and do it fairly. CJF is in his early 40's and comparing him to Joe late in his career when he was 80 is pretty absurd. When Joe was in his prime, he was the Meyer or Saban of the day and an alpha dog in recruiting. PSU has had #1 classes in the country before and that was under Joe, but the last one was in the last 90's IIRC. CJF is doing things right and recruiting is going well. Kids are still getting their degrees and he just won a BT title...these are all positive steps forward.
Here is the thing though.....Joe shouldn't have been in the job if he couldn't give 100%. It is fair to compare to Joe when he was 80 because it's fair to expect someone in the position who can compete at the highest level at all times. No one....NO ONE....deserves a ten year curtain call. And Joe's slipping control of the program manifested itself in many ways, including players getting in many scrapes with the law that last decade. Giving his son control of the offense. Many people want to give Joe a pass because of all that he accomplished, but it was a shitshow. I don't blame Joe at all for anything in the Sandusky mess, but had he retired when he was 70 very little of the blowback would have touched him.
Water under the bridge at this point. You seem to still have some Joe issues Judge...let it go..he's dead. I agree he should have retired earlier, but my rewind button is broke.
