Andrew Callahan on PSU's running game scheme
- Thread starter ChiTownLion
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he's the best PSU beat writer I've ever read. He's the "Tony Romo" of Penn State.
I always learn stuff from him.
Bottom line is that we are not executing our one-on-one blocking up front.
But I sense some frustration that we didn't work our running game in the second half.
I always learn stuff from him.
Bottom line is that we are not executing our one-on-one blocking up front.
But I sense some frustration that we didn't work our running game in the second half.
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He is really the best - 247 was smart to snatch him from the Reading or the Allentown paper - not sure which one.
Actually from an even smaller market, Lebanon Daily News, and not long out of UConn where he covered football and basketball for the Huskies
He provides very impressive analysis
A lot of variables in play here too.
- Quality of the run defenses past month+.
- As that tape points out, Wright just hasn't been the same player this season and can't possibly imagine he's been 100%. RT all year has been a problem with either injury or Fries trying to cut his teeth there as redshirt freshman, although he has done admirable all things considered. The depth is just not in position this season to absorb the the health issues with no realistic drop off.
- Shuffling from injuries has to be creating some missed assignments and communication. I look at McGovern on several of those clips and it's not a physical battle being missed as much as a late read. I think this is a lot bigger issue on the road where we've faced the better run D's of NW, OSU and MSU. At home against Michigan the OL seemed to overachieve on the bottom line.
Agree 100%. And, given all of that, we barely lost to both tOSU and Sparty. Even going 500 in those two games, we'd be playing in the B1G for a spot in the playoff, in all likelihood.
while I like Andrew and the way he writes, I love the fact he embeds his GIFs so we can see the play in question. His basic premise that you can not run inside zone to the #1 technique is not shared by everyone. Maybe PSU and the way they block cant, but other teams do. Look at the Eagles clip I linked in another thread yesterday, they run the inside zone to #1 quite well. Oh but they are pros, well here is a clip from PSU fired (not rehired? TE coach) John Strollo,OL coach at Ball State vs Texas A&M, runs inside zone to #1. The difference? The Eagles, Ball State zone block, PSU man/angle blocks, and that's why they continually get beat across the face.
it's fighting me embedding this, back it up to the very first play, they run inside zone to the 1, back cuts behind the 3.
it's fighting me embedding this, back it up to the very first play, they run inside zone to the 1, back cuts behind the 3.
Where is PSU ranked in all of college football in.............TFL? Oh, are they #1 or #2? I am not enjoying the current version of the RPO aka JoMo SloMo NoGo LeftRO TacFo BigLo SaQuanSay.........WhoaMo to the Pros........gottaGo
Yeah, the story of the season has hinged on 3 very tough conference games on the road -- Iowa, tOSU, and Michigan State, all very close and 2 being decided on the final play....the implications of going 1 for 3 in those games was a huge difference in going 2 for 3
I'm just amazed by the lack of physicality on this offensive line. Even in all the videos where we actually block something well or most guys do, they sort of just absorb the D-lineman. They never drive through. A couple instances in which someone is pulling and they stop their feet at the point of attack upon contact and sort of play basketball defense on their man. A pulling guard or tackle should be looking to run someones A$$ over. Franklin is right, this line is soft and if nothing else, that should be the biggest point of inflection over the last 3 weeks carrying over to next year. Demand that our O-line matches the physicality of our Wide Receivers. So embarrassing to have this level of talent at the skill positions and have a generational talent at RB and just have no f*cking "want to" on the O-line.
Do you really think our guys are soft? or are they doing/trying to do what they are coached to do?
I think that is by design. Since we deploy RPO's (run pass option) our OL cannot be downfield on a block. We cannot fire into the DL or LB because we cannot be downfield if #9 chooses to throw instead of run. That would be a penalty. So we, ostensibly, pass block on every down. The DL fires into us and we try to influence them to the left or right opening holes that the back runs through.
In high school, I was by far our smallest lineman and didn't have the size to drive a defender. So I ran this kind of block all the time unless the play was called in my holes (left or right). it was very effective and was frustrating for the defender (and my coaches, but I sucked).
Obliviax that is a misnomer, they block run all the way, being downfield is the least of their concerns. Re Read Andrews article again, and which his GIF where he talks about running RPO off the inside zone, and see if that isnt the way that block that run every time, especially look at the offenses Right side.
Fair enough...my suspicion is that there are certain plays called as options and certain plays that have the same look but are not options. Defenders are always looking for keys. If the OL stands up and backs up, the LB's & S know its a pass. If they fire out, they know its a run. I think JoeMo runs everything off of the same start so that there are no keys to read. Part of that is an OL that looks to be pass blocking on every down.
To your point, I do see a guy release into the secondary from time to time....but the base set and the initiation of the play is almost always exactly the same.
It doesn't apply to a pulling guard leaning on a defensive end as he is about to blow up the play. Knock his ass in the dirt, trace can read from there. I am not talking about hitting guys 7 yards down field, I'm talking about removing a defender from the play forcefully ie "block." If this offense is predicated on "getting in their way" we will never be a dominant run team.
Honestly, this level of analysis by Andrew Callahan is world class. This is the kind of thing you would hope to see at the national media level on occasion, but you never do. Lucky for us that Andrew writes about Penn State football.
we will disagree, I think our guys are more than tough enough, they wouldnt have gotten this far if they werent. I dont think the blocking scheme (not the over all scheme) lends itself to the OL being their best. If we zoned blocked more, and angle/man blocked less, I think it would help.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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Not soft. Just young. It’s not the coaching and it’s not lack of effort. We lack experienced depth on the OL. It’s the toughest place to predict and recruit and there aren’t enough experienced and talented big bodies. Plenty of young talent now. But wasn’t enough young takent 4 and 5 years ago. Takes talent and years working at it together. We were a few injuries away from this at the start of the season. Those happened. Same as last year, but dropped balls were caught, etc, turning Ls into Ws.
Everyone’s doing what they should be doing. Except us. We keep b/-(h;ng and we should stop and support our team.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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Yeah, he’s rare good wheat among the PSU beatwriting chaff. World class...? Certainly in relative terms.
I disagree with the premise it's not coaching. I think we run a poor scheme relative to how we block plays. I think our guys to a good job pass blocking, but the run blocking scheme as currently designed, has set them up for failure.
I think one of the problems is that Gonzalez and Wright both gained too much weight in the off season. Based on Jf's comments in press conferences, I think both gained 20-25 pounds over their weight last season. JF didn't seem all that bothered by it either, imo. So it was either encouraged or tolerated. Gonzo has looked lost every time he has tried to pull. And Wright was very good in pass pro last year, been terrible this year. JF really stressed he wanted to get more movement along the LOS. You look at the size of the Wisconsin line year after year, it was a credible plan. Made sense to me at the time. Hasn't worked out very well, however.
Think it was also a mistake moving Mahon back to guard. He was excellent at tackle when healthy last year, awful at guard in 2015. He hasn't been awful at guard this year, but nowhere close to outstanding as he was at T last year.
I think Des Homes, Miranda, Menet and maybe even Thorpe are going to be in a real battle next year to take over starting spots from returning starters.
Think it was also a mistake moving Mahon back to guard. He was excellent at tackle when healthy last year, awful at guard in 2015. He hasn't been awful at guard this year, but nowhere close to outstanding as he was at T last year.
I think Des Homes, Miranda, Menet and maybe even Thorpe are going to be in a real battle next year to take over starting spots from returning starters.
yeah, you would think coaching would see that it isn't working well and dial up some other schemes. Something the offensive line might better handle.
People use to blast Paterno for not being flexible, trying to fit players into a system rather than build a system around players skills. How is this any different?
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Callahan was also very favorable to Hackenberg when he had OL issues two years ago; interesting how some people are more forgiving for JoMo's OL shortcomings than they were for Hand's.
I think you need to watch the game closer. Callahan verified what I told you in the other thread. This is an OL issue, not a scheme issue.
It’s because Trace makes makes the OL look better than what it is. Hack didn’t have that ability.
Yeah hindsight is 20/20 but I think we would have been better off with Mahon at LT and Bates back at LG. Would have given us a strong left side of the line.
I was also hoping that with Bates out last week they'd slide Mahon back out to tackle but I guess they didn't want to switch positions around this late in the season. That or maybe they do not feel Menet is ready to go in at guard.
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Especially on the edge. I was wondering that too, during the game. We continually pound Barkley up the middle for mostly lost yardage and the 2 plays we use a pitch to get him outside he has his biggest gains and then never go back to it.
I want to see more of it. Our WR's block better than our OL.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Some quarterbacks are better able to handle pressure in the pocket, identifying free blitzers, taking off and getting positive yardage when the play breaks down, etc. than others.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Clearly McSorley is that guy. My point was that Hack had a bad OL too and wasn’t able to play to his strengths as a result, but people focused on Donovan and Hack while Callahan was all over the OL issues.
You finish out the year with three pretty poor teams. Repetitions are so important with offensive line play that you might as well limp to the finish line with what you have.
The upside is that we continue to add blue chip linemen every year and eventually we'll get to a place where our starters are blue chip recruits with junior and senior eligibility, with blue chip recruits behind them on the depth chart. Aren't there yet.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Ignored? No. Callahan consistently pointed out their issues. Others felt our offense suffered more from other problems (Hack, Donovan). Just my observation.
well I watch our tapes and then I watch other peoples tapes running the same plays. I have no problem with our over all scheme, I think it is a good one. That said, the reason we have an OL issue, is because of our blocking schemes. Sure in theory they can work, but the other guy wants to win too. If you listened to Callahan's podcast, the OL coach talked about winning 1-1 battles and was worried about blocking Kevin Givens 1 on 1.
Now when you look at our run game, and they (the OC and OL coach) said they like to block guys 1 on 1. The problem with that is, and when you look at the tape, you see our guys getting beat 1 on 1 especially in the run game. If I am an OG and my job is to run block the DT who is on my nose, I am in a bad position. Why? That guy can beat me 1 of of 3 ways, straight a head, loop to my left, loop to my right. So as an OG I have a 1 in 3 chance of doing my job. (watch the tapes, dont listen to Callahan). You can do it this way if want, but there are other ways to do it and increase your chances of making the blocks. See how the Eagles did it, see how Strollo (former PSU coach) does it a Ball State. He doesnt say, 'throw the playbook out, they put a #1 technique in the hole!!!
I know you wont, but take some time and watch this, and then get back to me, otherwise you can say all you want we are young and you'll end up getting your ass beat again. And if things dont change we will be young next year as well.
The talk about not being allowed to block to the next level on the RPO is not true. I've many times seen teams block four or five yards down field during RPO passes and they never get called for a penalty. If you look at the eighth gif in Andrew Callahan article, you will see a well blocked RPO pass play where multiple lineman got to the second level and no penalty was called. The reason why they are struggling isn't because they can't fire out on RPO plays. Most of the poorly blocked plays shown in the article weren't even RPO or zone read plays.
so why do you think they were poorly blocked? Because we blocked the wrong man? Our technique was poor? they were put into a difficult situation?
As stated in another thread. Run block and pass blocking are not mutually exclusive. The injuries and the youth are not going to change overnight. mcS needs to not throw pics and miss open receivers and the bad OL play is more. Everyone has been maligning the D ... But McS 3 ints were neutralized by our D. There is no quick fix for the OLs inexperience, injuries and playing out of position.
That is the frustrating part of this article ... you see one gif of an RPO (or inside zone?) where three OL (BM, CM and SG) all whiff and SB has two defenders on him before he can even get started. Then you watch the straight ahead run where the OL does a great job of drive blocking and SB picks up seven yards. So is the inconsistency due to youth or scheme or both?
Also frustrating is watching the best run (by far) due to two WRs making great blocks that requires zero OL to block! Maybe they should have run this play more often!?
