Am I the only one that has "zero" faith the OL ....
- Thread starter dawgduice
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Certainly a cause for some concern....
but, I think the extra experience and additional work will help these guys a lot. Smith is a big loss but hopeful Palmer can contribute right away. With everyone else on the line better, he doesn't have to be as good as Smith.
I also think having backs that can help out (Mark Allen, at 5-7, has been getting rave reviews for his aggressive blocking) will do wonders for the line. Hack in his third year means the game is slower for him, and that is absolutely a great thing.
I'll be watching these guys with great interest and am confident they'll be better than last year.
but, I think the extra experience and additional work will help these guys a lot. Smith is a big loss but hopeful Palmer can contribute right away. With everyone else on the line better, he doesn't have to be as good as Smith.
I also think having backs that can help out (Mark Allen, at 5-7, has been getting rave reviews for his aggressive blocking) will do wonders for the line. Hack in his third year means the game is slower for him, and that is absolutely a great thing.
I'll be watching these guys with great interest and am confident they'll be better than last year.
That is just silly and ridiculous. At most schools, the OL doesn't get to
play until they are Juniors or Seniors. And if they do, it is one freshman mixed in with a senior laden group.
We didn't have that. We had a bunch of guys with absolutely no experience.
People who haven't played don't realize how much chemistry and experience matters for the OL. It can be almost more important than ability itself if that makes sense. Just sometimes being in the right position is enough.
I remember Kevin Zeitler, who is now in the NFL and played for Wisconsin. The kid was like a turnstyle his first year.
YA know what happened? He got more experience.
play until they are Juniors or Seniors. And if they do, it is one freshman mixed in with a senior laden group.
We didn't have that. We had a bunch of guys with absolutely no experience.
People who haven't played don't realize how much chemistry and experience matters for the OL. It can be almost more important than ability itself if that makes sense. Just sometimes being in the right position is enough.
I remember Kevin Zeitler, who is now in the NFL and played for Wisconsin. The kid was like a turnstyle his first year.
YA know what happened? He got more experience.
We saw what just 1 more month of practice did for bowl performance...
Not to say it was "great" but having another month of work certainly helped. This unit was one we knew would struggle last year because it simply didn't have the depth or numbers. While still short on experience, there's more talent in the underclass.
The coaches certainly know this is an area of focus so have to trust they're doing what is necessary.
Not to say it was "great" but having another month of work certainly helped. This unit was one we knew would struggle last year because it simply didn't have the depth or numbers. While still short on experience, there's more talent in the underclass.
The coaches certainly know this is an area of focus so have to trust they're doing what is necessary.
So last year you had two converted DLs and one returning OL out (Miles) in the first year of a new staff with new schemes. Of course Smith leaving hurts, but you have more experience and more depth both of which are huge. I'm not expecting the second coming of the 94 line, but I am expecting to see some improvement.
Not great, but certainly better. Smith was the big loss as Miles didn't have much of an impact last season. Another year of unity and getting bigger will help tremendously. The line doesn't have to be great for the offense to work, it just has to be good. It wasn't anywhere near "good" until the very end of the season.
Don't know if you're the only one, but those paying attention likely feel the offensive line will be much improved. Note Christian Hackenberg's remarks about the line this spring.
Another year of experience. Another year with these coaches. Another year in this offense. Players coming off redshirt that may contribute. I think there are reasons for optimism. Plus CJF made comments (in a thread posted yesterday) that listed his reasons for optimism v this time last year.
This post was edited on 4/13 10:11 AM by bxle
This post was edited on 4/13 10:11 AM by bxle
Need someone to emerge at Left Tackle, but even so...much improved
that's been the general feedback; compared to last year, more experience, more strength, more depth; continuity of working together is very important, and that will be a big plus this year.
that's been the general feedback; compared to last year, more experience, more strength, more depth; continuity of working together is very important, and that will be a big plus this year.
I don't think anyone expects them to be an elite line, but there should be a noticeable improvement. They will be stronger with another year in the weight room. They should play faster without having to thing as much as a result of knowing the system better, and there is more depth, thus more competition in practice. Left tackle is still a big question mark. If Palmer is too light and weak, they may have to move Nelson over.
I don't know if you are the only one but I will list my reasons why I think it will be much improved.
In no particular order.
1.) Another years experience.
2.) Another year in the S&C dept.
3.) Another year with the coaches (being able to understand and grasp the concepts of the coaches).
4.) Players actually able to practice at their positions instead of all over the line.
5.) Depth, although that may also be applied to #4.
6.) Wr's understanding their roles and being better prepared.
7.) Running backs seeing the whole and making better and quicker decisions.
8.) TE's blocking better.
9.) Hack being more comfortable in the system and trusting the guys on the line.
10.) Coaches being more comfortable with the players and trusting their ability, thus more varied play calling.
Let me add one more.
11.) While Donovan was our best lineman he was probably only playing 80% for most of the season.
The guy really gutted it out for the team but you could tell he was no where near the player he was the year before.
So hopefully a healthy LT will also add to the stability and improvement.
This post was edited on 4/13 10:23 AM by BBrown
The five guys who got the most reps last year....
Smith, Nelson, Mangiro, Gaia, Mahon:
Three of them were taking their first snaps ever as college offensive linemen......and one of the other two (Mangiro) had only had a handful of snaps prior to 2014. For all intents and purposes, there wasn't a second team.
This year, PSU returns 4 starters (remember, Diffenbach only started 2 or 3 games last year), and a couple others (Laurent, Dowery) who both will have more game experience than Mangiro did coming into last year.
All of those guys now have experience, and an additional year working together and working in the weight room.
It is still a couple years until we see a "typical" offensive line depth chart (one where the 1st and 2nd teams are primarily 3rd, 4th, and 5th year guys)......but it is HUGELY better than the depth chart coming into 2014 (which didn't even have a second team)
Smith, Nelson, Mangiro, Gaia, Mahon:
Three of them were taking their first snaps ever as college offensive linemen......and one of the other two (Mangiro) had only had a handful of snaps prior to 2014. For all intents and purposes, there wasn't a second team.
This year, PSU returns 4 starters (remember, Diffenbach only started 2 or 3 games last year), and a couple others (Laurent, Dowery) who both will have more game experience than Mangiro did coming into last year.
All of those guys now have experience, and an additional year working together and working in the weight room.
It is still a couple years until we see a "typical" offensive line depth chart (one where the 1st and 2nd teams are primarily 3rd, 4th, and 5th year guys)......but it is HUGELY better than the depth chart coming into 2014 (which didn't even have a second team)
Well you might not have to wait long.Originally posted by dawgduice:
Well, maybe "zero faith" was a bit harsh. Should have said "let's just wait and see"
We saw how young and green the O-line was in last years B&W game.
Hopefully we see that improvement.
I think zero is awfully low
It's the top concern going into next season, but there is reason for optimism. Experience and another offseason really can make a huge difference. Guys become more familiar with their duties and the game "slows down" for lack of a better phrase. Plus, they're able to bulk up more during the offseason. A19 year old can become significantly more solid by age 20 with the training these guys get.
So yeah, I'm concerned, but I also think if you're expectations are only "no better than last year," you're likely to be pleasantly surprised at how much another year of a development is worth.
It's the top concern going into next season, but there is reason for optimism. Experience and another offseason really can make a huge difference. Guys become more familiar with their duties and the game "slows down" for lack of a better phrase. Plus, they're able to bulk up more during the offseason. A19 year old can become significantly more solid by age 20 with the training these guys get.
So yeah, I'm concerned, but I also think if you're expectations are only "no better than last year," you're likely to be pleasantly surprised at how much another year of a development is worth.
BBrown: Great assessment of why we should be better. I don't doubt that we will see an improvement for all the reasons stated, but I don't expect this line to dominate anyone, except some of the OOC teams. Therefore, we will be very dependent on the RB's hitting any hole created, or creating their own spaces with speed an elusiveness. Also, Hack's ability to hit the quicker passes to TE's and even RB's out of the backfield. We need to continue recruiting the best Omen we can get to develop excellent future lines so we don't continue having to worry about this same topic year after year. The sanctions hurt our OL the most, as did subpar recruiting. Just think what hack could have done with the OL we had in 1994!!!
Actually, no. Jimmy Jeffords from Altoona, Tom Wilnicki from Erie,
and Delbert Johnson from Conshohocken agree with you.
and Delbert Johnson from Conshohocken agree with you.
I feel better now It appears as though the OCC will really help the OL improve as well. Plus, I believe, we get the Stanford kid this summer to add some depth.
Actually with the OCC schedule, we should be Bowl eligible before we play any real games
It appears as though the OCC will really help the OL improve as well. Plus, I believe, we get the Stanford kid this summer to add some depth. Actually with the OCC schedule, we should be Bowl eligible before we play any real games
Had Miles played all season, and had Smith worked as hard....
as he has since he left PSU (and been healthy), then I would question it also. Having said that, all of the guys back will be stronger, and more comfortable with the offense and their roles this season, and experience is very important on the OL. If we can get solid play at the LT spot, then I believe we will be significantly better on the line then we were last year.
Again, it hurt missing Miles and honestly, Smith was our best LT, but he wasn't in great shape and he was not an NFL high draft pick until he decided he wanted to be one after he left.
This post was edited on 4/13 11:26 AM by PSUJim
as he has since he left PSU (and been healthy), then I would question it also. Having said that, all of the guys back will be stronger, and more comfortable with the offense and their roles this season, and experience is very important on the OL. If we can get solid play at the LT spot, then I believe we will be significantly better on the line then we were last year.
Again, it hurt missing Miles and honestly, Smith was our best LT, but he wasn't in great shape and he was not an NFL high draft pick until he decided he wanted to be one after he left.
This post was edited on 4/13 11:26 AM by PSUJim
You are the only one. Smith was hurt most of last year and
probably would not have been on the field during most seasons. The group played pretty well in the bowl game....the one month of extra practice clearly helped. These same guys will be a year stronger, they will have a year more system knowledge and there will be some competitive depth. I am not saying this group will be at the top of the big ten next year, but they certainly won't be a liability.
Further the WR's should be better, which will help the passing game. The running game should be improved, just because of the talent upgrade.
Our defense will be even better than last year and the offense should be able to put some more points on the board. The close wins offset the close losses last year. I see a nice upgrade in wins vs losses compared to last year.
The only thing which matters is how much we close the gap between the top teams we will face....OSU and MSU.
probably would not have been on the field during most seasons. The group played pretty well in the bowl game....the one month of extra practice clearly helped. These same guys will be a year stronger, they will have a year more system knowledge and there will be some competitive depth. I am not saying this group will be at the top of the big ten next year, but they certainly won't be a liability.
Further the WR's should be better, which will help the passing game. The running game should be improved, just because of the talent upgrade.
Our defense will be even better than last year and the offense should be able to put some more points on the board. The close wins offset the close losses last year. I see a nice upgrade in wins vs losses compared to last year.
The only thing which matters is how much we close the gap between the top teams we will face....OSU and MSU.
Re: Had Miles played all season, and had Smith worked as hard....
The guy was basically playing at about 80% all year. I don't think he was even 100% for the bowl game.
IIRC there was even some concern that he would miss the opening game and then the Michigan game.
Smith was a true "team player" last year.
Smith not being healthy had 10x more to do with than his "desire".
The guy was basically playing at about 80% all year. I don't think he was even 100% for the bowl game.
IIRC there was even some concern that he would miss the opening game and then the Michigan game.
Smith was a true "team player" last year.
When you just consider that the average lean muscle gain alone...
...was about 22lbs., not taking into account the experience factor...well, hell yeah they'll be better.
Now at least maybe we don't get pushed around so easily by the rest of the B1G...plus, we have bona fide RB skill level upgrades, TE that really learned how to block(let's hope so) and perhaps even our WR will block for each other.
Our O should definitely be an upgrade this Fall.
...was about 22lbs., not taking into account the experience factor...well, hell yeah they'll be better.
Now at least maybe we don't get pushed around so easily by the rest of the B1G...plus, we have bona fide RB skill level upgrades, TE that really learned how to block(let's hope so) and perhaps even our WR will block for each other.
Our O should definitely be an upgrade this Fall.
The defenition of faith is belief in something that can't be seen/proven
So, many PSU fans do have faith that the OL will be more improved because of experience, cohesion, competing, etc. I count myself as hopefully optimistic, which is in the same vein as having faith. The bottom line is that this won't be seen/proven until we meet up with good defensive line this fall.
So, many PSU fans do have faith that the OL will be more improved because of experience, cohesion, competing, etc. I count myself as hopefully optimistic, which is in the same vein as having faith. The bottom line is that this won't be seen/proven until we meet up with good defensive line this fall.
I think the OL will be a problem this fall but no worse than last year
Our OL was pretty bad and out best OL is gone. The others will improve with age/experience but we're still a couple of years away. I don't expect much from the freshmen this early.
Our OL was pretty bad and out best OL is gone. The others will improve with age/experience but we're still a couple of years away. I don't expect much from the freshmen this early.
Re: I think the OL will be a problem this fall but no worse than last year
I think it's reasonable to assume that the OL will be improved, due to a year's experience and the continued coaching of Herb Hand, but I'm going to wait to see them in September to be satisfied that "improved" translates as "good." I saw Gaia and Mahon get blown up too many times last year to be comfortable predicting on April 13 that the OL will be good this fall.
I think it's reasonable to assume that the OL will be improved, due to a year's experience and the continued coaching of Herb Hand, but I'm going to wait to see them in September to be satisfied that "improved" translates as "good." I saw Gaia and Mahon get blown up too many times last year to be comfortable predicting on April 13 that the OL will be good this fall.
I think the biggest problem will be the usual whining about....
...a personal favorite player getting passed over for a better lineman.
The next MCE is waiting in the wings.
...a personal favorite player getting passed over for a better lineman.
The next MCE is waiting in the wings.
Read your statement. You said:
"zero" faith the OL will be better than last year.
Think about that for just a second. ANY better. ANY. And your "zero" is burnt. You seriously don't think they will be ANY better? You didn't say "significantly" better, you said "ANY" better. Again, just think about what you stated.
"zero" faith the OL will be better than last year.
Think about that for just a second. ANY better. ANY. And your "zero" is burnt. You seriously don't think they will be ANY better? You didn't say "significantly" better, you said "ANY" better. Again, just think about what you stated.
True but your post does not answer the very real concern
about 2015. Yes the Oline might be pretty good in 2016 and 2017 but what about this year? I am not convinced we will be much better.
about 2015. Yes the Oline might be pretty good in 2016 and 2017 but what about this year? I am not convinced we will be much better.
We lost best "pro-talent" guy, but he had an underwhelming year
IMHO. Whatever the reason. Could be he didn't like the style of his 3rd new coach. But watching play his FR year, I though this guy had potential to be one of the best OL in the Big10. Didn't see it last year.
I think improved WR play, improved QB play, a quicker passing game, and a year stonger OL will all lead to a better looking offensive line.
IMHO. Whatever the reason. Could be he didn't like the style of his 3rd new coach. But watching play his FR year, I though this guy had potential to be one of the best OL in the Big10. Didn't see it last year.
I think improved WR play, improved QB play, a quicker passing game, and a year stonger OL will all lead to a better looking offensive line.
If you are asking me, then yes, I believe Smith did not work....
nearly as hard as he did following the season. And, that has NOTHING to do with our OL coaching as I believe it was an issue under the former regime also. Look, Smith seemed like a great kid and he stuck with PSU, but I believe both staffs had issues with his work ethic. Now, if you are hearing from multiple sources that you may end up having to get a real job, or you can get your butt in shape and potentially be a 1st round choice - what would you do??????
I am not saying Smith would not have been drafted, but if was healthy, and worked his tail off, there is significant $$ difference between a 1st or early 2nd round pick, versus a late round guy. I believe he was our best OL by default, but I don't think his potential was ever questioned.
I believe the OL coaching is much better now than it was 5 years ago, and I believe we have a lot of kids with very good potential that are going to be much improved moving forward.
nearly as hard as he did following the season. And, that has NOTHING to do with our OL coaching as I believe it was an issue under the former regime also. Look, Smith seemed like a great kid and he stuck with PSU, but I believe both staffs had issues with his work ethic. Now, if you are hearing from multiple sources that you may end up having to get a real job, or you can get your butt in shape and potentially be a 1st round choice - what would you do??????
I am not saying Smith would not have been drafted, but if was healthy, and worked his tail off, there is significant $$ difference between a 1st or early 2nd round pick, versus a late round guy. I believe he was our best OL by default, but I don't think his potential was ever questioned.
I believe the OL coaching is much better now than it was 5 years ago, and I believe we have a lot of kids with very good potential that are going to be much improved moving forward.
