Active Philly shooter, Nicetown Area...four officers shot

[BobPSU92]

Active Shooter
Passive Shooter
Passive-Aggressive Shooter
Reactive Shooter
Proactive Shooter
Inactive Shooter
Overactive Shooter
...

We need clear clinical definitions here. Only when we understand intent and the psyche of each type of shooter can we define the best response for each one.

 

[phillybillyreprise]

Why not just drop the adjective? It’s a shooter. Bullets don’t need an adjective. You can show active as opposed to past by the verb. “We have a shooter”. “We had a shooter”

 

[fizzyskittles]

Exactly,

That is good news.

Sounded like a bad guy shot at cops doing cop business. But the news decides to plant the phrase du jour on it and call it an “Active Shooter”. In that case, there will be Active Shooters in every city this weekend.

Save us from this mess

it wasn't an active shooter, it was a criminal who ambushed the cops who I believe were serving a warrant or investigating drug activity.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Exactly,

it wasn't an active shooter, it was a criminal who ambushed the cops who I believe were serving a warrant or investigating drug activity.

Right, obviously missing the ‘mentally ill’ component required to be an active shooter.

 

[psuro]

Exactly,

it wasn't an active shooter, it was a criminal who ambushed the cops who I believe were serving a warrant or investigating drug activity.

If you are an active shooter, then by default - does that not make you a criminal?

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

If you are an active shooter, then by default - does that not make you a criminal?

Ambushing cops is sane, thus, not an active shooter. Ambushing Wal-Mart patrons is insane, so active shooter.

 

[Obliviax]

Ahhhhhh... Philly

yeah...what has happened in the last 30 years?

As a kid, I recall seeing a police officer and feeling happy to be in his presence. today, I feel threatened. is it me or is it the role of the police has changed? I feel like police, today, look for someone to arrest or fine regardless of their primary objective "to protect and to serve." I feel like the police are always looking for a revenue opportunity, as directed by their various organizations. Prosecutors, then, have lost any attachment of common sense and will bend the rules to get a conviction regardless of motivation or guilt. What a mess.

 

[fizzyskittles]

Right, obviously missing the ‘mentally ill’ component required to be an active shooter.

An active shooter designation is not used for something like this. This is the FBI definition.

An active shooter is an individual actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a populated area, and recent active shooter incidents have underscored the need for a coordinated response by law enforcement and others to save lives. The FBI is committed to working with its partners to protect schools, workplaces, houses of worship, transportation centers, other public gathering sites, and communities


This is a different situation. A shootout with the cops during normal police work isn't called an active shooter. The police were ambushed when they responded to a report of drug activity.

 

[fizzyskittles]

Ambushing cops is sane, thus, not an active shooter. Ambushing Wal-Mart patrons is insane, so active shooter.

It's more due to shooting at police while they are conducting their job. the Walmart shooter went there to shoot people. The cops were called to this area and he shot at them during their normal police duties.

 

[BobPSU92]

Why not just drop the adjective? It’s a shooter. Bullets don’t need an adjective. You can show active as opposed to past by the verb. “We have a shooter”. “We had a shooter”

We must label people. They must be put in a box.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

If you are an active shooter, then by default - does that not make you a criminal?

There were fine Active Shooters on both sides

 

[fizzyskittles]

Why not just drop the adjective? It’s a shooter. Bullets don’t need an adjective. You can show active as opposed to past by the verb. “We have a shooter”. “We had a shooter”

Because designations tell responding officers what they are dealing with. Active shooters are different than criminals holed up in a residence shooting at cops. the cops were targeted during their duties in that area. Now you can be ana ctive shooter and go to target police officers. There's a distinction.

 

[Obliviax]

There were fine Active Shooters on both sides

This quote goes down in history like "I can see Russia from my house" and "I invented the internet" of things that were never said but the media reported it as fact. What was said was that there were good people on both sides of the discussion to retain monuments to confederate leadership. and, as such, it was a local issue and not a federal one. The press reported it was about the KKK. Any review of the direct quotes, a transcript, is very clear.

 

[fizzyskittles]

This quote goes down in history like "I can see Russia from my house" and "I invented the internet" of things that were never said but the media reported it as fact. What was said was that there were good people on both sides of the discussion to retain monuments to confederate leadership. and, as such, it was a local issue and not a federal one. The press reported it was about the KKK. Any review of the direct quotes, a transcript, is very clear.

Exactly.

FWIW here is information on active shooters from the FBI:
https://www.fbi.gov/about/partnerships/office-of-partner-engagement/active-shooter-resources

 

[PSUNYGNYY]

yeah...what has happened in the last 30 years?

As a kid, I recall seeing a police officer and feeling happy to be in his presence. today, I feel threatened. is it me or is it the role of the police has changed? I feel like police, today, look for someone to arrest or fine regardless of their primary objective "to protect and to serve." I feel like the police are always looking for a revenue opportunity, as directed by their various organizations. Prosecutors, then, have lost any attachment of common sense and will bend the rules to get a conviction regardless of motivation or guilt. What a mess.

Are you kidding me? You feel threatened? Maybe you need to go to your safe space and stay there. Cops are under a microscope more now than ever so to even suggest that cops are “looking for someone to arrest’ is absurd. Prosecutors are also under more scrutiny than ever and are actually under pressure to give shorter sentences and reduce prison populations. And what organizations are directing cops to arrest people?

 

[PSUSignore]

As a kid, I recall seeing a police officer and feeling happy to be in his presence. today, I feel threatened.

Quite the opposite for me. When I was young and dumb the presence of a cop made me worry because I was usually speeding or doing young and dumb things in my car, and I didn't want a ticket (I ended up with my fair share). Now I welcome the presence of officers pretty much anywhere, especially when I encounter a young and dumb driver.

 

[Obliviax]

Are you kidding me? You feel threatened? Maybe you need to go to your safe space and stay there. Cops are under a microscope more now than ever so to even suggest that cops are “looking for someone to arrest’ is absurd. Prosecutors are also under more scrutiny than ever and are actually under pressure to give shorter sentences and reduce prison populations. And what organizations are directing cops to arrest people?

I feel that 99% of the police are awesome. But I've had several bad experiences. First, I was rear-ended at a red light. The responding officer asked me to not report it as the young lady who hit me would take care of it. When I hesitated, he gave me his badge and phone numbers and told me to call him directly if things didn't go well. I had a problem with the gal's insurance so called him. he told me that he had no recollection of the accident and didn't know what I was talking about. In addition, a sibling was driving on an interstate and was passed by some person doing well north of 90 mph. They passed a cop and the cop pulled out and surprisingly, pulled over my sibling. When they told the cop that he had mistakenly pulled over the wrong car, the cop was stunned for a second. Then said he didn't care and wrote them up for driving 92 mph. finally, another family friend has been a criminal defense attorney for just a couple of years. He's had three cops suspended and two prosecutors removed due to doctoring up information, lying or simply roughing people up.

So I simply will have to disagree with your impression of the police and prosecutors.

 

[fizzyskittles]

I feel that 99% of the police are awesome. But I've had several bad experiences. First, I was rear-ended at a red light. The responding officer asked me to not report it as the young lady who hit me would take care of it. When I hesitated, he gave me his badge and phone numbers and told me to call him directly if things didn't go well. I had a problem with the gal's insurance so called him. he told me that he had no recollection of the accident and didn't know what I was talking about. In addition, a sibling was driving on an interstate and was passed by some person doing well north of 90 mph. They passed a cop and the cop pulled out and surprisingly, pulled over my sibling. When they told the cop that he had mistakenly pulled over the wrong car, the cop was stunned for a second. Then said he didn't care and wrote them up for driving 92 mph. finally, another family friend has been a criminal defense attorney for just a couple of years. He's had three cops suspended and two prosecutors removed due to doctoring up information, lying or simply roughing people up.

So I simply will have to disagree with your impression of the police and prosecutors.

One thing to remember if you deal with a crappy cop, not here, not now, and not with you. Save your argument for court.

 

[fizzyskittles]

I feel that 99% of the police are awesome. But I've had several bad experiences. First, I was rear-ended at a red light. The responding officer asked me to not report it as the young lady who hit me would take care of it. When I hesitated, he gave me his badge and phone numbers and told me to call him directly if things didn't go well. I had a problem with the gal's insurance so called him. he told me that he had no recollection of the accident and didn't know what I was talking about. In addition, a sibling was driving on an interstate and was passed by some person doing well north of 90 mph. They passed a cop and the cop pulled out and surprisingly, pulled over my sibling. When they told the cop that he had mistakenly pulled over the wrong car, the cop was stunned for a second. Then said he didn't care and wrote them up for driving 92 mph. finally, another family friend has been a criminal defense attorney for just a couple of years. He's had three cops suspended and two prosecutors removed due to doctoring up information, lying or simply roughing people up.

So I simply will have to disagree with your impression of the police and prosecutors.

I'll add that you don't follow advice like the first guy gave you. an Ex girlfriend had a similar experience with the police.You get name, address, phone number of the other person, and call your insurance company. Let them send out an adjuster. Then call your doctor because of your sore neck, go to PT for your sore neck, then call the officer's supervisor and explain what he told you.

 

[fizzyskittles]

Quite the opposite for me. When I was young and dumb the presence of a cop made me worry because I was usually speeding or doing young and dumb things in my car, and I didn't want a ticket (I ended up with my fair share). Now I welcome the presence of officers pretty much anywhere, especially when I encounter a young and dumb driver.

Age and smarts taught me how to deal with these guys.

 

[Obliviax]

I'll add that you don't follow advice like the first guy gave you. an Ex girlfriend had a similar experience with the police.You get name, address, phone number of the other person, and call your insurance company. Let them send out an adjuster. Then call your doctor because of your sore neck, go to PT for your sore neck, then call the officer's supervisor and explain what he told you.

totally agree, now. But that was back when I trusted the police 100%

 

[Obliviax]

One thing to remember if you deal with a crappy cop, not here, not now, and not with you. Save your argument for court.

..let me tell you...if it is your word against a cops you don't have a chance in court. That is just the way it is.

 

[fizzyskittles]

..let me tell you...if it is your word against a cops you don't have a chance in court. That is just the way it is.

Get a lawyer, watch the situations you put yourself in.

 

[Obliviax]

Get a lawyer, watch the situations you put yourself in.

well, its not that easy. If I could go into detail on a handful of situations that I have direct knowledge of I would. But there is a reason why kaep kneels and I certainly get it.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Because designations tell responding officers what they are dealing with. Active shooters are different than criminals holed up in a residence shooting at cops. the cops were targeted during their duties in that area. Now you can be ana ctive shooter and go to target police officers. There's a distinction.

What about the public? Do they need to know the difference between an active police firefight and an active shooter? No, they don't. They need to know whatever is necessary to avoid an area/situation. 'Active Shooter' may have an FBI definition for report/police purposes, but it is still accurate when dealing with anyone who has a firearm and who has fired shot.

 

[Obliviax]

What about the public? Do they need to know the difference between an active police firefight and an active shooter? No, they don't. They need to know whatever is necessary to avoid an area/situation. 'Active Shooter' may have an FBI definition for report/police purposes, but it is still accurate when dealing with anyone who has a firearm and who has fired shot.

Agreed...it is just a term that has caught on. It is a term that implies imminent danger so it is used to warn people to stay safe. Like a lot of buzzwords, it has just caught on for specific purposes. But when hard logic is applied, doesn't make complete sense.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

yeah...what has happened in the last 30 years?

As a kid, I recall seeing a police officer and feeling happy to be in his presence. today, I feel threatened. is it me or is it the role of the police has changed? I feel like police, today, look for someone to arrest or fine regardless of their primary objective "to protect and to serve." I feel like the police are always looking for a revenue opportunity, as directed by their various organizations. Prosecutors, then, have lost any attachment of common sense and will bend the rules to get a conviction regardless of motivation or guilt. What a mess.

We became a society of "us" versus "them." What's different today is that "us" and "them," despite huge advances in communication speed, have no means for civil discourse. As a result, it has become impossible to change anyone's stance on something.

We are now a society comprised of people that think only a subset of our laws apply. That subset, of course, varies dramatically from person to person.

Half think we'd be better off as a country without borders. Money will fall from the sky, and all will prosper. The other half thinks we'd be better off arming people with no moral code and/or who have been so hurt by life that they value neither themselves nor anyone else. If we could just jail, kill, or get them to snap out of it, all will prosper.

We are like a gang of children living in a house with no rules, no parental authority, and no means to learn anything. We are like children that think they've already learned everything.

In short, WE ARE ... crazy.

 

[Obliviax]

We became a society of "us" versus "them." What's different today is that "us" and "them," despite huge advances in communication speed, have no means for civil discourse. As a result, it has become impossible to change anyone's stance on something.

We are now a society comprised of people that think only a subset of our laws apply. That subset, of course, varies dramatically from person to person.

Half think we'd be better off as a country without borders. Money will fall from the sky, and all will prosper. The other half thinks we'd be better off arming people with no moral code and/or who have been so hurt by life that they value neither themselves nor anyone else. If we could just jail, kill, or get them to snap out of it, all will prosper.

We are like a gang of children living in a house with no rules, no parental authority, and no means to learn anything. We are like children that think they've already learned everything.

In short, WE ARE ... crazy.

Who knew Missing Person's "Words" would be one of the most meaningful of the 80's. What are words for, when no one listens anymore?

 

[fizzyskittles]

Wrong, designations are important . Words mean things. There’s a hostage situation at, the police are involved with a shooting barricaded suspect.
Doesn’t take a lot of words to get it right.
Any news reports will tell people to avoid the area and they can afford to listen for three more seconds for details .

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

half think we'd be better off arming people with no moral code and/or who have been so hurt by life that they value neither themselves nor anyone else.

Edit: And there are those that actually think we can identify these people.

 

[fizzyskittles]

U

Agreed...it is just a term that has caught on. It is a term that implies imminent danger so it is used to warn people to stay safe. Like a lot of buzzwords, it has just caught on for specific purposes. But when hard logic is applied, doesn't make complete sense.

Thru should use the correct designation in any reports . It’s doesn’t take any longer to get it right .

 

[Connorpozlee]

We became a society of "us" versus "them." What's different today is that "us" and "them," despite huge advances in communication speed, have no means for civil discourse. As a result, it has become impossible to change anyone's stance on something.

We are now a society comprised of people that think only a subset of our laws apply. That subset, of course, varies dramatically from person to person.

Half think we'd be better off as a country without borders. Money will fall from the sky, and all will prosper. The other half thinks we'd be better off arming people with no moral code and/or who have been so hurt by life that they value neither themselves nor anyone else. If we could just jail, kill, or get them to snap out of it, all will prosper.

We are like a gang of children living in a house with no rules, no parental authority, and no means to learn anything. We are like children that think they've already learned everything.

In short, WE ARE ... crazy.

We are not a country of half this and half that, though. We are still a country largely in the middle. It is the extremes that get the attention and press. Most of us are sensible and see the flaws on both sides.
At least, I think that’s where we are.

 

[Obliviax]

U

Thru should use the correct designation in any reports . It’s doesn’t take any longer to get it right .

well, it isn't wrong.

 

[fizzyskittles]

well, it isn't wrong.

Yes it is according to official definitions . And these are important .

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

We are not a country of half this and half that though. We are still a country largely in the middle. It is the extremes that get the attention and press. Most of us are sensible and see the flaws on both sides.
At least, I think that’s where we are.

That's not what I see among people that I now tend to meet (retirees). These people have time on their hands, and they want to talk politics. I see extreme leftists and rightists. I see people addicted to CNN/MSNBC or FOX. We go into homes and the TV is constantly running with one of these news outlets, and the people are aligned with the rhetoric. For them, it is like listening to music. And they hate their neighbor's music.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

That's not what I see among people that I now tend to meet (retirees). These people have time on their hands, and they want to talk politics. I see extreme leftists and rightists. I see people addicted to CNN/MSNBC or FOX. We go into homes and the TV is constantly running with one of these news outlets, and the people are aligned with the rhetoric. For them, it is like listening to music. And they hate their neighbor's music.

Retirees are entrenched in their opinions, not really the best sample to go by IMO.

 

[Obliviax]

That's not what I see among people that I now tend to meet (retirees). These people have time on their hands, and they want to talk politics. I see extreme leftists and rightists. I see people addicted to CNN/MSNBC or FOX. We go into homes and the TV is constantly running with one of these news outlets, and the people are aligned with the rhetoric. For them, it is like listening to music. And they hate their neighbor's music.

I agree...and that is the problem . CNN/MSNBC/FOX are simply playing to people's emotions to get and keep them engaged. The parties are only too happy to pile on as this is what gets people to donate money and volunteer. But when you actually look at direct quotes, you'll find that people make while accusations that are not at all correct (good people on both sides, for example). I turned on FOX last night and had to turn it off (hannity). i then turned over to CNN (Lemon). Both were making wild and unrealistic accusations.

 

[KnightSlayer]

Are you kidding me? You feel threatened? Maybe you need to go to your safe space and stay there. Cops are under a microscope more now than ever so to even suggest that cops are “looking for someone to arrest’ is absurd. Prosecutors are also under more scrutiny than ever and are actually under pressure to give shorter sentences and reduce prison populations. And what organizations are directing cops to arrest people?

Anyone with the power they have should be scrutinized.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Wrong, designations are important . Words mean things. There’s a hostage situation at, the police are involved with a shooting barricaded suspect.
Doesn’t take a lot of words to get it right.
Any news reports will tell people to avoid the area and they can afford to listen for three more seconds for details .

Only to people who have time for such things. There was an incident just this week in DC where there was a man with a firearm at a CVS. He did not fire any shots and it was a domestic dispute. One police officer on scene told people nearby there was an ACTIVE SHOOTER situation. Was he wrong? Does it matter? Should he have said, 'person with a gun who may or may not fire shots, so stay away, but whatever you do, don't say 'active shooter' because it's not.' No, it doesn't, even if you think it does.

 

[Obliviax]

Only to people who have time for such things. There was an incident just this week in DC where there was a man with a firearm at a CVS. He did not fire any shots and it was a domestic dispute. The office told people nearby there was an ACTIVE SHOOTER situation. Was he wrong? Does it matter? Should he have said, 'person with a gun who may or may not fire shots, so stay away, but whatever you do, don't say 'active shooter' because it's not.' No, it doesn't, even if you think it does.

Agree...right or wrong "shooter" is used for a potential shooter; a person making threats or making threatening actions. "Active shooter" means that someone is killing people.