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70 YEARS AGO TODAY........The United States of America dropped an atomic bomb on Japan (link)

Women breastfeeding feeding their babies...

Old men walking in the park...

Children playing...

...in a split second they were all KILLED.

But, it saved American lives....BLAH BLAH BLAH.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-days-atomic-bomb-killed-140-000-people.html

Two of my uncles were scheduled for the first wave of Olympic. I have no doubt that their lives were saved.

And the truth is that the firebombings of Tokyo (and other cities) were more deadly.
 
Women breastfeeding feeding their babies...

Old men walking in the park...

Children playing...

...in a split second they were all KILLED.

But, it saved American lives....BLAH BLAH BLAH.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-days-atomic-bomb-killed-140-000-people.html
Honestly Felli.

Anyone with a working mind "gets it".

It was horrific.

But don't ignore that as those "old men were walking in the park", there were also:

Young men preparing to make their Kamikaze runs.

Young men (6 to 10 divisions worth) preparing to dig in on Kyushu....since the Japanese (correctly) knew that Kyushu would have to be taken before an assault could begin on the northern areas (including Tokyo).

Japanese leaders trying to determine how many casualties the Allied forces could withstand.....until they (the Allies) could be convinced to negotiate an armistice - rather than a surrender.

As illustrated at Iwo Jima....Japanese leaders had long since conceded their inability to fully repel Allied invasion....and had instead adopted the strategy of "internal defense" to inflict maximum casualties.

Forces were building "command and control" bunkers in Nagano....so that the Japanese forces could be led throughout a long, costly domestic defense.

More and more aircraft were being assembled every day (to augment the 10,000 on hand) to be used in Kamikaze attacks against Allied invasion forces - including the targeting of transport ships carrying allied attack forces.

20-30 MILLION Japanese civilians (basically every able bodied man and woman) had been conscripted into a "Civilian Army"....lightly armed, but trained to die in the effort to maximize casualties to the attacking forces.


So....yes.....you got that.
 
"They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind." Of the Japanese leadership at the time of Pearl harbor, it appears that only Yamamoto Isoroku realized that.
 
Women breastfeeding feeding their babies...

Old men walking in the park...

Children playing...

...in a split second they were all KILLED.

But, it saved American lives....BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Read Flyboys. It's a good perspective on the type of leaders Japan had and who we were dealing with.

LdN
 
Women breastfeeding feeding their babies...

Old men walking in the park...

Children playing...

...in a split second they were all KILLED.

But, it saved American lives....BLAH BLAH BLAH.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-days-atomic-bomb-killed-140-000-people.html

Which part bothers you? The "bomb" part, or the "nuclear" part. Would it have been Ok with you if they just killed them all with regular old bombs? Or do you think they should have figured out a way to win the war without hurting anyone.
 
Women breastfeeding feeding their babies...

Old men walking in the park...

Children playing...

...in a split second they were all KILLED.

But, it saved American lives....BLAH BLAH BLAH.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-days-atomic-bomb-killed-140-000-people.html

I imagine the American generals sitting around a table, knowing that this bomb was on its way, looking at a satellite map of the world, zoomed in on Japan (because, in my imagination, that technology existed back then). They zoom in on the Enola Gay, and moments before the bomb is dropped, one of them says, "You've been messin' with the bull. Now here come the horns."

America did what they had to do to win the war. And it was a war they were drawn into - it wasn't a war of aggression. "Walk softly and carry a big stick," and all that...
 
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My dad's name: Szczepanski, Joseph Leon.. Bataan Death march survivor.. Fukuoka 17 POW Camp Roster
http://www.lindavdahl.com/Front%20Pages/Camp%20Roster.html


''I viewed the sky blazing over Nagasaki after the atomic bomb was dropped, although it was about 40 miles away,'' Joe wrote to the Wilkes-Barre Times Leader when he got home.

About Us...Decendents of the American Defenders of Bataan and Corregidor

We are the children and grandchildren, the nieces and nephews, and friends of the men who fought and died defending Bataan and Corregidor, the airmen who were shot down and the seamen whose ships were sunk. We are the American Defenders of Bataan and Corregidor Memorial Society, and our mission is to perpetuate the story of the bravery and sacrifice of the men and women who were thrown into the maelstrom of war in the early part of World War II. Our membership is open to anyone who has an interest in this unique part of American history.

Within hours after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, the Japanese bombed sites in the Philippines. What followed was a bloody five month defense of the Philippines in an effort to thwart and delay the advance of the Japanese army. The Fil-American troops were hindered by lack of food, medicine, guns, and ammunition. When the end came for Bataan in April, 1942 the already malnourished and diseased troops were rounded up and forced to march more than 65 miles to prison camps in searing heat.



The Japanese guards allowed no stops for water; most men were fed no more than twice, and anyone who could not go on was brutally beaten or bayoneted. For some this ordeal lasted as long as two weeks. Most of the Filipinos and Americans of Bataan and Corregidor were then starved and brutalized in the miserable camps in the Philippines before being transported in unmarked “hellships” to be used as slave labor in Japan. Many thousands of lives were lost on these voyages as well as in the mines, shipyards, and factories where they were forced to work under deplorable conditions.



The men who suffered these cruelties are now reaching eighty and ninety years of age and have decided to disband the ADBC, the organization to which they have belonged for more than sixty years. It is therefore incumbent upon their descendants to carry on the spirit of the ADBC and keep the story from disappearing from contemporary history. We hope that through our emphasis on education that their story will live on. We are proud to continue the legacy.
 
Back to Bataan

From his bedroom at night, little Rick would hear his father in the kitchen directly below, shouting in Japanese, barking sharp commands. He'd been out drinking again.
It was the early 1960s, and Joe Szczepanski was collecting a military pension and working at a shoe factory. After his shift, he'd stop at a bar just a block from the house.
He'd get home late, sit by himself and rant for an hour or more.
Rick, who was about 7, would have to get up for school the next morning, and the racket kept him awake. He knew it had something to do with POW camps during
World War II. His father had told him about beheadings.
''My dad was a little bit screwed up,'' Rick Szczepanski now says. ''He was suffering from post-traumatic stress, but nobody knew what that was at the time.
You never knew when he was going to fly off the handle. He didn't physically take it out on us; mentally, though, he did. It was hard for the whole family.''

A one-time amateur boxer from the coal country around Wilkes-Barre, Joe had stayed in the service after the war and would go on to another career, teaching Spanish
at Bethlehem Catholic High School. But he had a drinking problem and a hair-trigger temper that made life difficult for his wife and three sons.
As Rick got older, he found it easier to spend less time with his father than to put up with his combativeness. He knew some lurid details of his dad's existence as a
captive American soldier in the Far East. But he wouldn't gain a fuller understanding until after his father died in 2005.

Inspiration came from summarizing the 86-year-old's life for the obituary. The task launched a journey to his father's past that continues to this day. It is a quest that has
unmasked much of Joe Szczepanski's ordeal during the Bataan Death March and 31/2 years as a prisoner of the Japanese. And it has brought Rick Szczepanski of East Allen Township face to face with an Army veteran who was with Joe in two POW camps, including one in Japan where they slaved in a coal mine and saw the atomic bombing
of Nagasaki.

''Dad never really got over what took place in the prison camps, until in the mid-1980s he finally let go. It didn't bother him anymore,'' said Rick, who is 54 and owns
a mechanical contracting business. A sampling of the abuse his father suffered at Japanese hands appears in his 1947 testimony for the War Crimes Office investigating atrocities.
After his father died, Rick wrote to the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis and was surprised to get a copy of the transcript. He hadn't known about the war crimes deposition. His father had never talked about it.
In his testimony, Joe Szczepanski told a counterintelligence agent about an incident that took place at Fukuoka Camp 17 on Japan's Kyushu island, where he was held
from mid-1943 until the war ended. A Japanese overseer in the mine ''reported me for not working hard enough. He and two guards beat me with their fists into unconsciousness, revived me with water and knocked me out a second time. They knocked out five teeth in the beating. They gave me the alternative of being shot or accepting the beating.''

A long walk in the sun

Joseph L. Szczepanski was born in 1918 to Ukrainian immigrants in Plymouth Township, Luzerne County. His parents, who would also have three daughters, were fairly well off. While his father worked in the coal mines, his mother made bootleg plum brandy. They built a nice home in Nanticoke, along with a rental house in the rear.
When Joe was 16, he lied about his age and joined the National Guard. The next year, he graduated from Nanticoke High School and worked in a silk mill. In 1938, now with the regular Army, he went to Hawaii and tangled with other soldiers in the boxing ring while serving in a chemical warfare battalion.
The decision that led him to Asia was his transfer to the Army Air Corps. He arrived at Luzon island, the Philippines, in mid-1940 and became a clerk at the Nichols Field air base outside Manila.

Two weeks after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, Japanese troops swarmed Luzon's northern coast. They gradually overpowered American and Filipino forces, trapping them on the mountainous Bataan peninsula. Joe was there, helping to supply the soldiers in the fight.

With hunger, disease and hopelessness weighing on the Allies, their commander surrendered on April 9, 1942. The next day, Sgt. Szczepanski was taken prisoner on Bataan's southern tip. He was among 75,000 Allied captives the Japanese would start moving north to the captured Camp O'Donnell -- 85 miles, all but two dozen of them on foot.
This was the Bataan Death March.
Along the way, hundreds of Americans and thousands of Filipinos died from dehydration, exhaustion and exposure to the fierce sun and heat, and from being run over, shot, bayoneted, beheaded, beaten and buried alive.
 
Back to Bataan continued:

Digging their own graves

Joe was transferred later in the spring of 1942 from Camp O'Donnell to Cabanatuan Camp 1, also on Luzon.

''For the first four months, we were fed nothing but a very small quantity of gourd soup and rice for the three meals each day,'' he told the war crimes investigator.
''We worked from [7 a.m. until 5 p.m.] six days a week on road construction and miscellaneous construction. Â… Treatment was brutal for the slightest offense.

''I personally saw five American soldiers shot to death for bribing the guard and leaving the camp for procuring food from a nearby Filipino village. These soldiers were given
the choice of [being shot or] standing for three days tied to a post neck-high, with their heads resting back on the posts in the face of the tropical sun.
''On the third day one of the boys made a break to escape, and all of the boys were forced to dig their own graves and were shot down in the graves while they were singing
'God Bless America.'''

Another time, Joe testified, three officers were caught trying to escape. ''They were deprived of any clothing and were compelled to stand out in the cold weather,
during which time they were whipped, stoned and spat upon by Japanese soldiers.
''This lasted for about three days, following which the officers became delirious and were marched down the road and shot to death.''

Testimony from Szczepanski and other survivors helped convict some 3,000 Japanese of war crimes. Many defendants got prison terms; more than 900 were executed.

Nagasaki's blazing sky

After more than a year at Cabanatuan, Joe and several hundred other POWs deemed fit to work were crowded into the hold of an old cargo vessel and taken to Kyushu,
where they were held at Fukuoka Camp 17 and forced to labor for a coal mining company. Joe would remain there for the rest of the war.

Many years later, Joe told his son about his struggle to survive despite disease -- he had beriberi, caused by vitamin B1 deficiency -- cruel guards and desperate hunger.
He talked about the lengths a man had to go to stay alive.
''I remember my dad saying he used to wait till one of his friends was just about dead and drag him out to get his food, then take him back and have his food because his friend
was on the way out. ''Another thing is, he crushed his own foot in order to get out of the coal mines for several months. He crushed it with a big piece of coal.''

Beginning in late 1944, Joe's parents, sisters and others back home sent postcards to him while he was at Fukuoka Camp 17. Joe wrote the name Charlie Balaza
on the back of one. He wrote the names of other fellow captives on cards, as well.

Rick scoured POW Web sites and found Charlie's name. He lives near Trenton, N.J., and had published a memoir, ''Life as an American Prisoner of War of the Japanese,''
but it doesn't mention Joe.

Rick and his wife, Gloria, visited the 86-year-old in October 2007 to find out why his name was on the card. Rick was amazed at what he discovered.
Charlie served in an Army coast artillery unit on Corregidor, an island fortress that guarded the mouth of Manila Bay. Its troops weren't captured until May 1942,
after the Bataan Death March. But Joe and Charlie were both held at Cabanatuan Camp 1, and they were among 500 fit POWs who were carried in a ship's cargo hold
to Kyushu in July 1943, then marched to Fukuoka Camp 17.
Charlie said he was with Joe outside the camp's barracks at 11:02 a.m. on Aug. 9, 1945. He remembered seeing a high-flying B-29 bomber and a billowing mushroom cloud.
Joe saw the smoke and fire, too. ''I viewed the sky blazing over Nagasaki after the atomic bomb was dropped, although it was about 40 miles away,''
he wrote to the Wilkes-Barre Times Leader when he got home.

Rick was thrilled to meet someone who was with his father at that historic moment.

'Imagine, two POWs, both seeing the Nagasaki bomb cloud -- my father telling me when I was no older than 13 that he was with another POW when this happened.
Then out of pure luck, meeting this other POW.''

At peace with himself'

Joe walked out of Camp 17 on Sept. 12, 1945, almost a month after the Japanese surrender.
He returned to the States on a transport ship operated by the US Coast Guard, the USS Admiral C.F. Hughes. (not to be confused with the USS Hughes).
Joe spent 18 months recuperating at Valley Forge General Hospital. One weekend in February 1946 when he was home, he met Catherine Wardzel at a Wilkes-Barre
dance hall. They were married four months later.

Remaining in the military, Joe specialized in aerial photography with the Air Force and was posted across the country and in Canada and Britain. He was a technical sergeant
with more than two decades of service when he retired in 1959. But he wasn't through working. He studied Spanish at King's College in Wilkes-Barre and taught at Becahi
for 10 years. Then in 1985, in his mid 60s, he was hospitalized with emphysema and almost died. Rick said it was a turning point for his dad.
''He was a smoker, so he quit smoking, cold turkey, and he quit drinking. He made a comment at the time: 'That's it, I'm not going to let the past run my life anymore.'
He just let go. At that point, I'd say, he was at peace with himself.''

Late in 1999, after Joe had grown frail, Rick got him into the Veterans Affairs nursing facility in Wilkes-Barre. Five-and-a-half years later, Joe Szczepanski died of lung cancer.

A path still to follow

In his mission to grasp what his father endured, Rick has read about 20 books on Bataan and prisoners of the Japanese.
He belongs to an e-mail group that disseminates POW information, and he has spent countless hours exploring Web sites related to his dad's service and captivity.
He has attended national conventions of the American Defenders of Bataan and Corregidor, a veterans group his father belonged to but wasn't active in.
And this year, Rick will be among the descendants who keep the organization going.

In addition, he and Gloria are considering a trip to the Philippines next year to follow his father's path.
''I understand now why he was the way he was. I can visualize many things today. But once you understand, you start wanting more information. I am still searching.''

Credit: David Venditta of the Morning Call david.venditta@mcall.com


Joseph Szczepanski Photo Gallery (click here) News Article featuring Joseph
then click on photo for album to appear
 
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I love how were are supposed to 'remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki' but the world papers don't post about how The USA was deliberately attacked on December 7th, 1941. Yeah we dropped two atomic bombs. It was done to force Japan to surrender, to prove to them that we could and would take all necessary steps to ensure our borders would never fall.
 
Women breastfeeding feeding their babies...

Old men walking in the park...

Children playing...

...in a split second they were all KILLED.

But, it saved American lives....BLAH BLAH BLAH.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-days-atomic-bomb-killed-140-000-people.html
Typical passive-aggressive BS from Felli. Contains no nuance, explores no alternative, shows no evidence of any real understanding of the issue. A quick Wiki search showed that 129,000 died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined, while the Operation Meetinghouse firebombing of Tokyo was "the single most destructive bombing raid in history," with 100,000 killed.

If anyone wants to make an argument that the bombs should not have been dropped, then by all means make it, I'd be glad to consider it, maybe there are things I'm not giving enough weight. But this post is just something from someone whose entire argument is "because I say so." This is Felli's usual MO, because he says so, it's got to be true. So tired and juvenile, I'm kind of embarrassed that I'm actually replying to this because it doesn't deserve any reply from anyone.
 
Typical passive-aggressive BS from Felli. Contains no nuance, explores no alternative, shows no evidence of any real understanding of the issue. A quick Wiki search showed that 129,000 died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined, while the Operation Meetinghouse firebombing of Tokyo was "the single most destructive bombing raid in history," with 100,000 killed.

If anyone wants to make an argument that the bombs should not have been dropped, then by all means make it, I'd be glad to consider it, maybe there are things I'm not giving enough weight. But this post is just something from someone whose entire argument is "because I say so." This is Felli's usual MO, because he says so, it's got to be true. So tired and juvenile, I'm kind of embarrassed that I'm actually replying to this because it doesn't deserve any reply from anyone.

But, yet you did.

So, do you deny CIVILIANS were living their lives like any HUMAN before they were KILLED?

Nowhere in my post did I say any of the crap most of you think or wrote. Fact is, we DID drop TWO bombs on civilians. If the lot of you can take off your American goggles just once, perhaps you'd see what we did in a different light. As one example, try talking to people about the USSR role in WWII and how they were battling (and winning) against the Nazis and immediately Americans bring up that they were Communists. Like the displaced farmer fighting for his life and his family gave a rats arse about communism or capitalism or socialism.

Americans feel JUSTIFIED in dropping the bombs. I can only imagine it makes swallowing the horror more palatable.

Keep JUSTIFYING crap like this and where does it end, Math dude? Do Japanese think this act was Justified?

Hey, on a side note, I see your Pope is now welcoming divorced families back into the Church. Numbers must be dwindling, eh?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/05/world/pope-divorced-catholics/
 
But, yet you did.

So, do you deny CIVILIANS were living their lives like any HUMAN before they were KILLED?

Nowhere in my post did I say any of the crap most of you think or wrote. Fact is, we DID drop TWO bombs on civilians. If the lot of you can take off your American goggles just once, perhaps you'd see what we did in a different light. As one example, try talking to people about the USSR role in WWII and how they were battling (and winning) against the Nazis and immediately Americans bring up that they were Communists. Like the displaced farmer fighting for his life and his family gave a rats arse about communism or capitalism or socialism.

Americans feel JUSTIFIED in dropping the bombs. I can only imagine it makes swallowing the horror more palatable.

Keep JUSTIFYING crap like this and where does it end, Math dude? Do Japanese think this act was Justified?

Hey, on a side note, I see your Pope is now welcoming divorced families back into the Church. Numbers must be dwindling, eh?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/05/world/pope-divorced-catholics/
"Saved American lives, blah blah blah" Do you deny this? Do you want to give us a guess how much longer the war would have lasted if we had not dropped these bombs? C'mon, give it a guess. How much longer would the war have lasted if we hadn't dropped the bomb? I'd like to see your answer.

What about what I said about the firebombing of Tokyo? If we hadn't had the atomic bomb then we would have bombed the crap out of Japan regardless. As usual, nothing from you about this. You NEVER discuss anything, with you it's always "this is the way it is, period."

Yes the A-bomb was horrible, but WHAT was the alternative? As usual, nothing from you. I'm saying right now: if we had not dropped the A-bombs, far, far more Japanese would have died than actually died at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Do you dispute that?

I'm not even going with "they bombed Pearl Harbor and so they deserved it." That's not part of my thinking.

You NEVER provide any alternative, any answers, to anything you say. Just empty talk, that's all you are. And a weak internet bully, bringing up my faith every chance you can. Pathetic.
 
Is this the correct history for the decision to use the atomic bombs on Japan?

Surrender
  • At the Potsdam Conference in July 1945, where world leaders met to discuss the future of the war, a joint proclamation was issued against Japan. Signed by American, British and Chinese leaders, it called for Japan's immediate and unconditional surrender in a bid to end World War II, or to face "prompt and utter destruction." The fact that Japan failed to acknowledge the warning at Potsdam contributed directly to the decision to drop the atomic bombs.
Alternatives
  • Another reason for dropping the bomb derived from the belief that it was the most expedient way to bring about Japanese surrender. President Truman, for example, disliked the idea of a planned invasion of Japan. In his 1955 autobiography, Memoirs, he argued that a bomb presented a less risky strategy for the Americans as it could save the lives of an estimated half a million U.S. soldiers. Truman was aware that an invasion would result in heavy bloodshed; the U.S. had lost 13,000 soldiers at the Battle of Okinawa only a few months earlier.
 
But, yet you did.

So, do you deny CIVILIANS were living their lives like any HUMAN before they were KILLED?

Nowhere in my post did I say any of the crap most of you think or wrote. Fact is, we DID drop TWO bombs on civilians. If the lot of you can take off your American goggles just once, perhaps you'd see what we did in a different light. As one example, try talking to people about the USSR role in WWII and how they were battling (and winning) against the Nazis and immediately Americans bring up that they were Communists. Like the displaced farmer fighting for his life and his family gave a rats arse about communism or capitalism or socialism.

Americans feel JUSTIFIED in dropping the bombs. I can only imagine it makes swallowing the horror more palatable.

Keep JUSTIFYING crap like this and where does it end, Math dude? Do Japanese think this act was Justified?

Hey, on a side note, I see your Pope is now welcoming divorced families back into the Church. Numbers must be dwindling, eh?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/05/world/pope-divorced-catholics/
When you are in the area, stop at the WW2 Memorial in DC and take a look at the number of gold stars on the wall. Each represents 1000...yes, that is 1000 soldiers killed in the war. That is 1000 families for every star, 1000 fathers, brothers, uncles cousins friends for each star. Japan had a warrior mentality that needed a major adjustment to get them to think in other terms. They needed something and they received it. It was horrible and ghastly but it was what was needed at that time.
 
But, yet you did.

So, do you deny CIVILIANS were living their lives like any HUMAN before they were KILLED?

Nowhere in my post did I say any of the crap most of you think or wrote. Fact is, we DID drop TWO bombs on civilians. If the lot of you can take off your American goggles just once, perhaps you'd see what we did in a different light. As one example, try talking to people about the USSR role in WWII and how they were battling (and winning) against the Nazis and immediately Americans bring up that they were Communists. Like the displaced farmer fighting for his life and his family gave a rats arse about communism or capitalism or socialism.

Americans feel JUSTIFIED in dropping the bombs. I can only imagine it makes swallowing the horror more palatable.

Keep JUSTIFYING crap like this and where does it end, Math dude? Do Japanese think this act was Justified?

Hey, on a side note, I see your Pope is now welcoming divorced families back into the Church. Numbers must be dwindling, eh?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/05/world/pope-divorced-catholics/
 
When you are in the area, stop at the WW2 Memorial in DC and take a look at the number of gold stars on the wall. Each represents 1000...yes, that is 1000 soldiers killed in the war. That is 1000 families for every star, 1000 fathers, brothers, uncles cousins friends for each star. Japan had a warrior mentality that needed a major adjustment to get them to think in other terms. They needed something and they received it. It was horrible and ghastly but it was what was needed at that time.
It certainly seems so. Hiroshima and Nagasaki cost 150,000 Japanese lives to zero US lives. If we had invaded, I'm guessing that it would have cost 500,000 lives at a minimum, Japanese and Allied lives. Yes, horrible and ghastly, and I'd love to say that we could have done without these bombings, but I got no alternative. Beyond perhaps exploring how we could have avoided bombing Nagasaki, I'm at a loss as to what we could have done differently. War is hell, an awful, awful thing. If nothing else, the bombs ended the war. We can do everything we can to see that it doesn't happen again, but anyone who deplores what happened at Hiroshima and Nagasaki without giving any thought to what would have happened if we had not dropped the bombs is a simpleton.
 
So you just hate the US and are hating on other peoples religion. What does this have to do with PSU or Penn State Football which I thought was the point of this board. I get it you want to be the antagonist but being a d-bag is still just that. I can only assume a slow day at the Mental Ward.
 
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Women breastfeeding feeding their babies...

Old men walking in the park...

Children playing...

...in a split second they were all KILLED.

But, it saved American lives....BLAH BLAH BLAH.


Not sure what would have been worse?
250,000 Japanese lives lost in a blinding white flash...
or 500,000 Japanese lives and 100,000+ American lives lost in an invasion of the Japanese home islands and countless firebombing of Japanese cities.

I'd argue that the horror of a nuclear explosion might just have prevented the horror of fire, disease, starvation and countless other horrors.

We talk about the Hindsight Bias here all the time...so, tell us what would have happened if we had NOT dropped two atomic bombs on the Japanese homeland?
 
This topic, as MANY others should be on the "test board". Even though I will sometimes comment I know I should just ignore such. We have so far to go as a "species" :)
 
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It certainly seems so. Hiroshima and Nagasaki cost 150,000 Japanese lives to zero US lives. If we had invaded, I'm guessing that it would have cost 500,000 lives at a minimum, Japanese and Allied lives. Yes, horrible and ghastly, and I'd love to say that we could have done without these bombings, but I got no alternative. Beyond perhaps exploring how we could have avoided bombing Nagasaki, I'm at a loss as to what we could have done differently. War is hell, an awful, awful thing. If nothing else, the bombs ended the war. We can do everything we can to see that it doesn't happen again, but anyone who deplores what happened at Hiroshima and Nagasaki without giving any thought to what would have happened if we had not dropped the bombs is a simpleton.

You're asking Felli to think critically, and that can't be done. There is only black and white for him. Unfortunately for him, most everything in the world is too nuanced for such a childish view.
 
Damned right we did Felli. Do you know how wars are fought and won?

The 'innocent' civilians you are pining for were happy to go about their lives letting their government fight a War they should have never started. They were happy to continue living their lives until in impacted THEM. Same happened in Germany, Italy, etc. Americans have become far to complacent because we have never seen a protracted war on our soil in our lifetimes.
 
"Hey, on a side note, I see your Pope"

Sorry buddy, he's your Pope as well. Not much you can do about it.
 
Every war ever fought was fought for $$$$$, nothing yet has changed. As of now we have "soldiers" everywhere in the world protecting "our business interests". By "our" I did not mean anyone on this board :) Although, all of us on this board pay for such and have no say on why or where.

Hear! Hear! But, they were JUSTIFIED. Just depends on whose side you're listening to.
 
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