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1984 nightmare

montoya33

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2018
65
66
1
I was living in the Detroit area - sports hellhole of the world.
If UM was not involved, it didn't happen.
Stumbled across a blurb somewhere that Lynch and DeStefanis had both won titles.
I needed details and searched libraries, out of town papers, but found zilch.
I'm still pissed.
 
I was living in the Detroit area - sports hellhole of the world.
If UM was not involved, it didn't happen.
Stumbled across a blurb somewhere that Lynch and DeStefanis had both won titles.
I needed details and searched libraries, out of town papers, but found zilch.
I'm still pissed.
I was working at the U of P when Valenti won his second title. On the following Monday, after the Nationals, there was a big article on the front page of the school newspaper about the basketball team losing in the first round. I found a mention about their NATIONAL CHAMPION a few pages in. Still makes me grind my teeth!
 
I was living in the Detroit area - sports hellhole of the world.
If UM was not involved, it didn't happen.
Stumbled across a blurb somewhere that Lynch and DeStefanis had both won titles.
I needed details and searched libraries, out of town papers, but found zilch.
I'm still pissed.
I was in attendance at the Meadowlands.
I'm not sure but if I remember Kenny Monday was OW
Last year of unlimited weight, Tab Thacker beat Gary Albright in finals.
 
I have always believed that the lack of attention for wrestling among some people is intentional, as is an apparent anti-wrestling attitude at some places.

If you look at the history of how some programs dropped, this becomes clear. Some of them supposedly ran out of money (which means people are greedy, no surprise), but others are extremely sketchy

Notre Dame's program was funded perpetually by an oil millionaire, a guy name O'Connor, but when he died, the university sweet-talked and coaxed his wife into changing the fund so that the money went straight to the U's coffers and not to wrestling. This despite the fact that O'Connor had specifically said or even wrote that the money would only go to wrestling (his son had been a wrestler at ND, got murdered in a robbery in like 1973). But this doesn't surprise me. Notre Dame's original mission was to be a reasonably-priced excellent school for American Catholics of middle class or poorer backgrounds. LOL NOT ANYMORE, baby. They transitioned into the academia-as-corporate-racket game like everyone else a long time ago. It's rather sad, actually.

Oregon wrestling got cut because Phil Knight wanted baseball instead. Baseball! Who the heck cares about that lame sport?! Don't get me wrong, I love Honus Wagner, Bob Gibson, Mike Schmidt, Nellie Fox, et al, but Lord have mercy is it ever inferior to wrestling. And slower.

Auburn wrestling, which was doing well under the Milkovich's from Cleveland, got cut because Pat Dye hated wrestling and in the Southeastern Conference "schools" it's far more important to cheat at football.

Colgate cut their wrestling program in 1981, claiming it cost too much and blah blah Title 9. Despite the fact that the entire program - including coaching salaries - was apparently costing the university a grand total of $10,000 ($30,000 today)

I could go on and on. None of these schools I've mentioned are connected by conspiracy or anything, but there's just an anti-wrestling culture in the back of university leader's minds, for whatever reason. It's always been the first male sport to get cut, and for the dumbest reasons.

People talk about growing the sport by commercializing it. I'm skeptical of how possible that is. But, honestly, I hope it doesn't get too commercialized, or else we'll all be cheaters with crap rules, just like the NFL and NCAA football.

And I'm not gonna talk about Title 9, it's too political, but, let's just say there's nothing that comes from a modern federal body that is all sunshine, daisies, rainbow farts, and good intentions. Far from it, my friends.
 
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I was in attendance at the Meadowlands.
I'm not sure but if I remember Kenny Monday was OW
Last year of unlimited weight, Tab Thacker beat Gary Albright in finals.

Yep. I was there. Princeton had a kid in the finals, Orr, who lost to Jesse Reyes of Cal State-Bakersfield. Iowa won the team title and Penn State came in third far behind them, but I took some small solace in the fact that PSU went 2-0 in the finals and Iowa went 1-4.
 
Conewago, I agree with you over the sport getting shorted. My beef is over the media. I'll drive back from State College on a Sunday and will turn on the local Pittsburgh station WTAE for their 11:00 pm news. That broadcast runs an hour and has multiple sports segments. They will talk about minor high school sports with 50 people in stands but College wrestling hell no. They totally ignore Penn State wrestling. Team is Co-Big Ten Champs, record setting attendance, record setting wrestlers including local boy Nolf, a coaching staff record at Nationals that is the envy of any sport and all the team gets is crickets. The other TV stations are just as bad.

It is a shame how they treat the sport.
 
Yep. I was there. Princeton had a kid in the finals, Orr, who lost to Jesse Reyes of Cal State-Bakersfield. Iowa won the team title and Penn State came in third far behind them, but I took some small solace in the fact that PSU went 2-0 in the finals and Iowa went 1-4.

118 lbs Carl DeStefanis, Penn State DEC Bob Hallman, Northern Iowa, 6–4
126 lbs Kevin Darkus, Iowa State DEC Joe McFarland, Michigan, 9–6
134 lbs Scott Lynch, Penn State DEC Greg Randall, Iowa, 13–6
142 lbs Jesse Reyes, Cal State-Bakersfield DEC John Orr, Princeton, 19–11
150 lbs Kenny Monday, Oklahoma State DEC Marty Kistler, Iowa, 7–2
158 lbs Jim Zalesky, Iowa DEC Mark Schmitz, Wisconsin, 7–2
167 lbs Mike Sheets, Oklahoma State DEC Lindley Kistler, Iowa, 9–0
177 lbs Jim Scherr, Nebraska DEC Duane Goldman, Iowa, 3–2
190 lbs Bill Scherr, Nebraska DEC Jim Baumgardner, Oregon State, 13–4
UNL Tab Thacker, North Carolina State DEC Gary Albright, Nebraska, 3–1

1 Iowa 123.75
2 Oklahoma State 98
3 Penn State 70.5
4 Nebraska 61
5 Oklahoma 51.5
6 Wisconsin 49.5
7 Iowa State 40.25
8 Louisiana State 38.75
9 Michigan State 29.25
10 Missouri 29
 
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I have always believed that the lack of attention for wrestling among some people is intentional, as is an apparent anti-wrestling attitude at some places.

If you look at the history of how some programs dropped, this becomes clear. Some of them supposedly ran out of money (which means people are greedy, no surprise), but others are extremely sketchy

Notre Dame's program was funded perpetually by an oil millionaire, a guy name O'Connor, but when he died, the university sweet-talked and coaxed his wife into changing the fund so that the money went straight to the U's coffers and not to wrestling. This despite the fact that O'Connor had specifically said or even wrote that the money would only go to wrestling (his son had been a wrestler at ND, got murdered in a robbery in like 1973). But this doesn't surprise me. Notre Dame's original mission was to be a reasonably-priced excellent school for American Catholics of middle class or poorer backgrounds. LOL NOT ANYMORE, baby. They transitioned into the academia-as-corporate-racket game like everyone else a long time ago. It's rather sad, actually.

Oregon wrestling got cut because Phil Knight wanted baseball instead. Baseball! Who the heck cares about that lame sport?! Don't get me wrong, I love Honus Wagner, Bob Gibson, Mike Schmidt, Nellie Fox, et al, but Lord have mercy is it ever inferior to wrestling. And slower.

Auburn wrestling, which was doing well under the Milkovich's from Cleveland, got cut because Pat Dye hated wrestling and in the Southeastern Conference "schools" it's far more important to cheat at football.

Colgate cut their wrestling program in 1981, claiming it cost too much and blah blah Title 9. Despite the fact that the entire program - including coaching salaries - was apparently costing the university a grand total of $10,000 ($30,000 today)

I could go on and on. None of these schools I've mentioned are connected by conspiracy or anything, but there's just an anti-wrestling culture in the back of university leader's minds, for whatever reason. It's always been the first male sport to get cut, and for the dumbest reasons.

People talk about growing the sport by commercializing it. I'm skeptical of how possible that is. But, honestly, I hope it doesn't get too commercialized, or else we'll all be cheaters with crap rules, just like the NFL and NCAA football.

And I'm not gonna talk about Title 9, it's too political, but, let's just say there's nothing that comes from a modern federal body that is all sunshine, daisies, rainbow farts, and good intentions. Far from it, my friends.
Can't place wrestling in a silo, imo. Nearly every sport except revenue sports has suffered similar fate, while the exceptions are women's sports that benefitted from title IX, and a few men's sports that cost little to support. It's a bit more complicated than the post above, as wrestling fate over the years is a small part of the overall decisions by AD's / Administrators, as they look at total landscape, including cost, facilities, and much, much more.

It sure does sadden me when I hear of a program folding, and excites me when one starts, but knowing that D1 college wrestling, PSU included, will be in the red each year at every school (I believe that's true), it's not far-fetched we will continue to see declines.
 
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Can't place wrestling in a silo, imo. Nearly every sport except revenue sports has suffered similar fate, while the exceptions are women's sports that benefitted from title IX, and a few men's sports that cost little to support. It's a bit more complicated than the post above, as wrestling fate over the years is a small part of the overall decisions by AD's / Administrators, as they look at total landscape, including cost, facilities, and much, much more.

It sure does sadden me when I hear of a program folding, and excites me when one starts, but knowing that D1 college wrestling, PSU included, will be in the red each year at every school (I believe that's true), it's not far-fetched we will continue to see declines.
And yet there's a great market for championship tickets, which are not cheap. I guess next year in the football stadium we'll see how big the market really is.
 
And yet there's a great market for championship tickets, which are not cheap. I guess next year in the football stadium we'll see how big the market really is.

Honestly, I have never gone to a football game at Beaver, but I would go to a wrestling match there. :)
 
Can't place wrestling in a silo, imo. Nearly every sport except revenue sports has suffered similar fate, while the exceptions are women's sports that benefitted from title IX, and a few men's sports that cost little to support. It's a bit more complicated than the post above, as wrestling fate over the years is a small part of the overall decisions by AD's / Administrators, as they look at total landscape, including cost, facilities, and much, much more.

It sure does sadden me when I hear of a program folding, and excites me when one starts, but knowing that D1 college wrestling, PSU included, will be in the red each year at every school (I believe that's true), it's not far-fetched we will continue to see declines.

Hey Roar

A few things

One, I'm not trying to put wrestling in silo, and I don't deny that other sports have suffered too. But, frankly, I'm right to be a bit passionate about what's specifically happened to wrestling. For one thing, wrestling is or was fairly cheap. I mean, it's more expensive to be Penn State wrestling, but years ago the point was supposed to be educating the wrestlers, which meant it was okay that everyone wasn't Penn State. And as I showed with the Colgate example, sometimes these ADs cut wrestling for reasons that were nothing short of dishonest. Dishonest! That's simply the only word for it. The Colgate and Notre Dame cases aren't isolated, but they sure are dishonest.

For another thing, wrestling is the greatest sport and I'm not afraid to believe that! :)

I admit, my post is not at all empirical. If I had time (I don't), I would love to examine this on a sport-by-sport basis. My GUT FEELING, which is just that, is that wrestling has quite possibly suffered at least as much as any other sport. I mean, the stats are just insane: In 2014, there had been 168 dropped programs in Division 1 ALONE since 1972. I have the instinct that it's not been any worse, in any case, for any other sport. I would guess that the silo for wrestling dropped programs is taller than anyone else's silo.

Your post ends on the note that wrestling is in the red at a lot of schools.

That's true.

On the other hand, Colgate was running the sport on $30,000 a year. I don't believe for one second that we in America, the richest country ever, can't fund a sport on $30,000 a year. Unless we're absolutely obsessed with "the bottom line" to support various other positions, and functions, and perks, within the school. And I'm guessing that's part of the problem.

and of course you're right that women's sports have benefited at the expense of wrestling. And to that reality I'm just gonna say .... NO COMMENT. LOL ;):D

I respect your opinion, you're one of the legends here!
 
Yep. I was there. Princeton had a kid in the finals, Orr, who lost to Jesse Reyes of Cal State-Bakersfield. Iowa won the team title and Penn State came in third far behind them, but I took some small solace in the fact that PSU went 2-0 in the finals and Iowa went 1-4.
Johnny Orr from Altoona High School.
 
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