16 Million Ton of supplies to Soviet Army helped them win the Eastern Front.

[TheGLOV]

$11 million dollars worth of aid.

Enough food to feed all Soviet soldiers for 1-full year.

Trucks galore which helped them tremendously amongst other things.

That supply route logistically through Iran, engineered by the Allies, was a thing of beauty!

Battle of Kursk be damned.

Let the discussion begin!

 

[LionJim]

What's to debate?

 

[TheGLOV]

What's to debate?

Good point Jim.

Shut it down.



Let's go with discussion sir.

 

[brupsu]

What's to debate?

Using our trucks allowed them to concentrate on producing tanks etc.I read where Stalin and his political officers worked many people to death in their factories.

 

[TheGLOV]

Using our trucks allowed them to concentrate on producing tanks etc.I read where Stalin and his political officers worked many people to death in their factories.

Excellent sir.

And we're off!

 

[LionDeNittany]

What's to debate?

Well the Soviets did invade Poland and kill hundreds of thousands of Polish people to start WW2. This is of course after agreeing to split Poland with Hitler whose invasion started WW2.

Our history books imply that the war was started with the steamrolling of France. That is incorrect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland

Not much different from Germany at that time.

Supplying an army that was an aggressor and subsequently took over the entire region... it is questionable at best.

LdN

 

[LionJim]

Using our trucks allowed them to concentrate on producing tanks etc.I read where Stalin and his political officers worked many people to death in their factorieus.

Yes. I'm not under any illusions about Stalin. (Reading Solzhenitsyn is an education in itself.) If we're here to debate whether or not we should have helped the USSR back then, whether or not we should have let them deal with Hitler on their own, I'll pass. I'll stick to discussing what did happen instead of discussing alternative history.

 

[Nitt1300]

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"- there is some truth in that

We helped Stalin because it was in our best interest- the more he bled the Nazis (and his own army) the better it was for the Allies. The fact is, that like it or not, had the USSR fallen to Hitler we could not have taken Europe back. Roosevelt and Churchill knew that, and they knew what Stalin was- but they needed him.

 

[Ranger Dan]

Our history books imply that the war was started with the steamrolling of France. That is incorrect.

LdN

No, this is not what our history books State...

 

[LionDeNittany]

No, this is not what our history books State...

Which State? New Jersey or Florida?

LdN

 

[Roar More]

No, this is not what our history books State...

They don't? I learned that the war in Europe started with the invasion of Poland.

 

[LionDeNittany]

They don't? I learned that the war in Europe started with the invasion of Poland.

That's true, but if you asked the average American the answer would be Germany crossing the Maginot line.

But that's fine. People don't understand the difference between the words "imply" and "state". At least not RangerDan.

It makes sense though, it is US history and the US involvement in the war mostly is west of Germany.

LdN

 

[marshall23]

Allied supplies,but Soviet Blood. Russia lost about 20 million....US 400,000.

 

[Ranger Dan]

They don't? I learned that the war in Europe started with the invasion of Poland.

LiondeNittany said that the history books stated that wwii started with the invasion of France. I was contradicting this comment, not his suggestion that it started with Poland.

 

[Ranger Dan]

Allied supplies,but Soviet Blood. Russia lost about 20 million....US 400,000.

Sounds like someone else is watching the Americans tv show...

 

[Roar More]

The Germans did not cross the Maginot Line. They avoided it, which is why they went through the low countries.

Also, most Americans think the US entered WW I because of the sinking of the Lusitania, which was two years before the actual US entry. The more proximate cause was a letter from Germany to Mexico promising the return of lost territory if Mexico joined the war on the side of the Central Powers.

 

[LionJim]

The Germans did not cross the Maginot Line. They avoided it, which is why they went through the low countries.

Also, most Americans think the US entered WW I because of the sinking of the Lusitania, which was two years before the actual US entry. The more proximate cause was a letter from Germany to Mexico promising the return of lost territory if Mexico joined the war on the side of the Central Powers.

Yes, the Zimmerman telegram.

 

[TheBumble]

That's true, but if you asked the average American the answer would be Germany crossing the Maginot line.

LdN

The average American would probably say the war started with our landings on Normandy. There's an episode of Fantasy Factory where Rob Dyrdek asks one of his employees when WWII was and the guy guessed 1972.

 

[NittPicker]

We should have sent all that aid to the Finns.

 

[Ranger Dan]

That's true, but if you asked the average American the answer would be Germany crossing the Maginot line.

But that's fine. People don't understand the difference between the words "imply" and "state". At least not RangerDan.

It makes sense though, it is US history and the US involvement in the war mostly is west of Germany.

LdN

How do the books imply anything? American war movies focus an the Western front because that’s what Americans care about. That doesn’t mean that history books neglect the activity prior to US involvement.

 

[LionDeNittany]

The average American would probably say the war started with our landings on Normandy. There's an episode of Fantasy Factory where Rob Dyrdek asks one of his employees when WWII was and the guy guessed 1972.

I could agree to this. Probably some wouldn't even know what WW2 is.

 

[LionDeNittany]

The Germans did not cross the Maginot Line. They avoided it, which is why they went through the low countries.

Also, most Americans think the US entered WW I because of the sinking of the Lusitania, which was two years before the actual US entry. The more proximate cause was a letter from Germany to Mexico promising the return of lost territory if Mexico joined the war on the side of the Central Powers.

Yes they did avoid it.

I still stick by what I said, most Americans probably believe WW2 started with Germany crossing the Maginot line.

A poll of non-scholars would be interesting to see if I was right.

LdN

 

[marshall23]

Sounds like someone else is watching the Americans tv show...

Graduated with a major in history 46 years ago. Even so,didn't grasp the magnitude of what happened on the Eastern Front. Easier to understand "the Iron Curtain" mentality.

 

[TheGLOV]

Graduated with a major in history 46 years ago. Even so,didn't grasp the magnitude of what happened on the Eastern Front. Easier to understand "the Iron Curtain" mentality.

So you stayed in school to avoid the draft, huh??

SMART!

 

[Nitt1300]

Yes they did avoid it.

I still stick by what I said, most Americans probably believe WW2 started with Germany crossing the Maginot line.

A poll of non-scholars would be interesting to see if I was right.

LdN

nonsense- most Americans think the war started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor

 

[LionJim]

Yes they did avoid it.

I still stick by what I said, most Americans probably believe WW2 started with Germany crossing the Maginot line.

A poll of non-scholars would be interesting to see if I was right.

LdN

That's probably true, but that's not the same thing as saying that "our history books imply that the war started with the steamrolling of France." Those who believe what I bolded in your post believe so because they haven't been reading history books.

 

[marshall23]

The Germans did not cross the Maginot Line. They avoided it, which is why they went through the low countries.

Also, most Americans think the US entered WW I because of the sinking of the Lusitania, which was two years before the actual US entry. The more proximate cause was a letter from Germany to Mexico promising the return of lost territory if Mexico joined the war on the side of the Central Powers.

Don't forget that Nazi surprised Allies by coming thru the thought to be impassable Ardennes. Tried to replicate it in 44 during The Bulge.

 

[Art]

Yes they did avoid it.

I still stick by what I said, most Americans probably believe WW2 started with Germany crossing the Maginot line.

A poll of non-scholars would be interesting to see if I was right.

LdN

You didn't say "most Americans," you said "our history books."

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

Graduated with a major in history 46 years ago. Even so,didn't grasp the magnitude of what happened on the Eastern Front. Easier to understand "the Iron Curtain" mentality.

I lived in the former Soviet Union in the early 90’s. It was amazing how much pride the people felt for their fallen WWII hero’s. Truly amazing in fact when you realized that they knew their government was an abject failure. I heard some amazing stories from some of those folks.

 

[swordsman_l]

They don't? I learned that the war in Europe started with the invasion of Poland.

You guys seriously don't know that ww2 started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor??

 

[marshall23]

So you stayed in school to avoid the draft, huh??

SMART!

Actually we had a lottery. I received no advantage for staying in school. My # wasn't reached. Coal Regions had many volunteers, filling that areas allotments.

 

[TheGLOV]

Don't forget that Nazi surprised Allies by coming thru the thought to be impassable Ardennes. Tried to replicate it in 44 during The Bulge.

I just watched the 'Battle of the Bulge" last night.

Great flick!!

 

[marshall23]

I lived in the former Soviet Union in the early 90’s. It was amazing how much pride the people felt for their fallen WWII hero’s. Truly amazing in fact when you realized that they knew their government was an abject failure. I heard some amazing stories from some of those folks.

The vast size of the USSR & its harsh winters were allies for them as well.

 

[marshall23]

I just watched the 'Battle of the Bulge" last night.

Great flick!!

My Dad was right in the middle of that one. Earned a bronze star.

 

[Ranger Dan]

I was wondering today about how many bullets the US used in WWII... I googled it, and came up with this:

Lt. Gen. Levin H. Campbell, Jr., Chief of Ordnance from 1942 to 1946, proudly had this to say:

From Pearl Harbor to V-J Day the Industry-Ordnance team furnished to the Army and 43 foreign nations 47 billion rounds of small arms ammunition, approximately 11 million tons of artillery ammunition, more than 12 million rifles and carbines, approximately 750,000 artillery pieces and 3/2 million military vehicles.

I think this is about 35 million bullets for each of the 1347 days that the US was involved in the war

 

[TheGLOV]

My Dad was right in the middle of that one. Earned a bronze star.

He is a true hero to all!

One of many of the "Greatest Generation" ever.

I am glad to know he served just like my father and many others in my family.

 

[TheGLOV]

The vast size of the USSR & its harsh winters were allies for them as well.

Oh hell, Napoleon knew that!

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Our history books imply that the war was started with the steamrolling of France. That is incorrect.

Really? Please provide some evidence of this to support your claim. I don't read a lot of WW II history books these days (almost never), but I've read quite a few over the years. I can't remember a history book that I ever read which indicated or implied that WW II "was started with the steamrolling of France."

History books that I've read generally list the following as being the actions that started WW II:

1. the German Anschluss
2. the Treaty of Munich
3. German invasion of Czechoslovakia (which directly contradicted what Hitler had claimed during the negotiations for the Treaty of Munich)
4. the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact between Germany and Russia
5. Germany invades Poland
6. Britain and France declare war on Germany, but provide Poland with little to no assistance
7. Russia invades Poland
8. Germany invades Denmark and Norway
9. Germany invades Holland and Belgium
10. Germany invades Luxembourg and France


So that's 9 major steps that took place before German forces invaded and defeated France.

Again, while I don't read many WW II history books these days, I think you'd be hard pressed to find any such book that states or implies that WW II started with the invasion and defeat of France by Germany.

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

The vast size of the USSR & its harsh winters were allies for them as well.

One fascinating thing that I learned while living there was that the Soviets (Russians) know when cold weather is an advantage (impassible roads freeze and become useful again) and when warm weather is a disadvantage (muddy, impassible roads, bugs and disease). In fact, their energy industry is geared to maximizing productivity by taking these factors into consideration. The late fall/winter of 1941was unusually brutal in Russia which was a blessing for the Nazis early but not later.

 

[brupsu]

Also, most Americans think the US entered WW I because of the sinking of the Lusitania, which was two years before the actual US entry. The more proximate cause was a letter from Germany to Mexico promising the return of lost territory if Mexico joined the war on the side of the Central Powers.[/QUOTE] So the idea was to pin down US forces here at home and stalling US efforts in Europe or am I incorrect?