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The ACC needs to cease to exist

It’ll become a shell of its former self, but it won’t be killed off completely. Unlike the Pac-12 when they collapsed, we already have a TV deal in place. As long as we maintain 15 members (meaning we can backfill), the deal remains intact.

Of course, this doesn’t concern me if we get the Big 12 invite… :oops:
 
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It’ll become a shell of its former self, but it won’t be killed off completely. Unlike the Pac-12 when they collapsed, we already have a TV deal in place. As long as we maintain 15 members (meaning we can backfill), the deal remains intact.

Of course, this doesn’t concern me if we get the Big 12 invite… :oops:
Losing their top members makes it a distant second tier. I do think the Big XII and ACC merge sooner than later.
 
Losing their top members makes it a distant second tier. I do think the Big XII and ACC merge sooner than later.
If, say, Clemson, FSU, and North Carolina all leave for the Big Ten or SEC, I think an ACC/Big 12 merger would be ideal. It could look something like this:

Central Pod: Colorado, Iowa State, Kansas, OK State
East Pod: Duke, NC State, Virginia, Virginia Tech
North Pod: Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, WVU
South Pod: Baylor, Georgia Tech, Miami, TCU
West Pod: Arizona, Arizona State, BYU, Utah
 
We already have pro football. Why would I watch a watered-down version of the NFL with the same amount of interest? These kids aren't even part of the student body at this point.
It's not a watered down NFL. They should have been paid for decades. Accept it. It won't change back.
 
If, say, Clemson, FSU, and North Carolina all leave for the Big Ten or SEC, I think an ACC/Big 12 merger would be ideal. It could look something like this:

Central Pod: Colorado, Iowa State, Kansas, OK State
East Pod: Duke, NC State, Virginia, Virginia Tech
North Pod: Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, WVU
South Pod: Baylor, Georgia Tech, Miami, TCU
West Pod: Arizona, Arizona State, BYU, Utah
I think it would go to 3 divisions of 10-12 and we'd basically be back to the ACC/Big XII/Pac XII. It would be great football. Stanford definitely sticks but it should be interesting.
 
Why shouldn't it?
Well, for one, there are currently 100 FBS football teams. Are you proposing two ginormous conferences? Three? The heads of the SEC and Big 10 don't want that. No one else does, either. I get that you perceive these issues through a Penn State (and therefore a Big 10) lens, but bigger is not necessarily better. The whole NIL thing is threatening to blow up college football in any event. What is the attraction of college football if its teams are completely professional and team rosters are completely reshuffled every year? Call me old school, but I'll start watching the NFL exclusively if that happens. If my only choice for football is professional football, I'm gonna watch it at the highest level, and under conditions where some measure of competitive balance exists.
 
Well, for one, there are currently 100 FBS football teams. Are you proposing two ginormous conferences? Three? The heads of the SEC and Big 10 don't want that. No one else does, either. I get that you perceive these issues through a Penn State (and therefore a Big 10) lens, but bigger is not necessarily better. The whole NIL thing is threatening to blow up college football in any event. What is the attraction of college football if its teams are completely professional and team rosters are completely reshuffled every year? Call me old school, but I'll start watching the NFL exclusively if that happens. If my only choice for football is professional football, I'm gonna watch it at the highest level, and under conditions where some measure of competitive balance exists.
Thats where we disagree. The Big Ten and SEC absolutely want a 2 conference league.
NIL can't be stopped. The door is open and there's no way to close it.
The attraction of college football remains the programs tied to that team. Kids always left. It just happens faster now.
 
Thats where we disagree. The Big Ten and SEC absolutely want a 2 conference league.
NIL can't be stopped. The door is open and there's no way to close it.
The attraction of college football remains the programs tied to that team. Kids always left. It just happens faster now.
We'll have to agree to disagree. BTW, what the heck to you mean by a "2 conference league?" A conference IS a league.
 
Well, for one, there are currently 100 FBS football teams. Are you proposing two ginormous conferences? Three? The heads of the SEC and Big 10 don't want that. No one else does, either. I get that you perceive these issues through a Penn State (and therefore a Big 10) lens, but bigger is not necessarily better. The whole NIL thing is threatening to blow up college football in any event. What is the attraction of college football if its teams are completely professional and team rosters are completely reshuffled every year? Call me old school, but I'll start watching the NFL exclusively if that happens. If my only choice for football is professional football, I'm gonna watch it at the highest level, and under conditions where some measure of competitive balance exists.
A reminder that what we need is for football to be split off into its own entity while the rest of the collegiate athletic department returns to regional-centric conferences.

In this instance, Penn State would be in an Olympic sports conference with Pitt, Syracuse, Villanova, WVU, etc. while your football team would assumingely be in a top-tier football division with Michigan, Notre Dame, OSU, etc.

I see it as a win/win because the top football powers can come together to create bigger ratings and revenue while the university saves traveling costs associated with regional conferences. There’s no reason why your XC teams should be competing with Oregon and Washington, for example.
 
A reminder that what we need is for football to be split off into its own entity while the rest of the collegiate athletic department returns to regional-centric conferences.

In this instance, Penn State would be in an Olympic sports conference with Pitt, Syracuse, Villanova, WVU, etc. while your football team would assumingely be in a top-tier football division with Michigan, Notre Dame, OSU, etc.

I see it as a win/win because the top football powers can come together to create bigger ratings and revenue while the university saves traveling costs associated with regional conferences. There’s no reason why your XC teams should be competing with Oregon and Washington, for example.
Im all for separation of football and other sports but I don't want in league with Pitt or Nova or Syracuse. I truly don't get the obsession with regional rivals.
 
Im all for separation of football and other sports but I don't want in league with Pitt or Nova or Syracuse. I truly don't get the obsession with regional rivals.
It’s not “regional rivals,” it’s simply regional schools. You’d return to a conference with them because they’re the closest schools to you. Throw in Maryland, Rutgers, Boston College, UConn, etc. as well. As another example, Georgia would be in a league with Georgia Tech, Florida, FSU, Miami, and so on.

If you’re separating football and all other sports, that’s the logical conclusion… unless you want to create ‘super leagues’ for basketball as well?
 
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Well, for one, there are currently 100 FBS football teams. Are you proposing two ginormous conferences? Three? The heads of the SEC and Big 10 don't want that. No one else does, either. I get that you perceive these issues through a Penn State (and therefore a Big 10) lens, but bigger is not necessarily better. The whole NIL thing is threatening to blow up college football in any event. What is the attraction of college football if its teams are completely professional and team rosters are completely reshuffled every year? Call me old school, but I'll start watching the NFL exclusively if that happens. If my only choice for football is professional football, I'm gonna watch it at the highest level, and under conditions where some measure of competitive balance exists.

Have you been following the Dartmouth case? And the USC Case might not be far behind.

Collective Bargaining for players is pretty much right around the corner. Schools will have to make some hard decisions. We may be getting to a point where we have Club teams playing as true “Student Athletes” at some schools, and the larger schools playing with nothing more than paid mercenaries who wouldn’t have gotten through the front door of Penn State when Joe was here.
 
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It’s not “regional rivals,” it’s simply regional schools. You’d return to a conference with them because they’re the closest schools to you. Throw in Maryland, Rutgers, Boston College, UConn, etc. as well. As another example, Georgia would be in a league with Georgia Tech, Florida, FSU, Miami, and so on.

If you’re separating football and all other sports, that’s the logical conclusion… unless you want to create ‘super leagues’ for basketball as well?
Why do we care about closest? It doesn't make sense to me. A 2 hour or 3 hour flight is fine. I think conferences should exist based on common things such as elite hockey schools should create conferences. The best should play the best. Not the closest.
 
Why do we care about closest? It doesn't make sense to me. A 2 hour or 3 hour flight is fine. I think conferences should exist based on common things such as elite hockey schools should create conferences. The best should play the best. Not the closest.
So essentially you’d like to split up every sport by itself? At that point, every sport would have a super league. I guess that’s a fair argument as long as there’s enough team in each sport to split up into geographic divisions.

What you’re forgetting is that there’s the student athlete portion to consider. Especially for sports that have multiple games per week, I just don’t agree with having them make 2-3hr flights everywhere or being on cross-country road trips.
 
So essentially you’d like to split up every sport by itself? At that point, every sport would have a super league. I guess that’s a fair argument as long as there’s enough team in each sport to split up into geographic divisions.

What you’re forgetting is that there’s the student athlete portion to consider. Especially for sports that have multiple games per week, I just don’t agree with having them make 2-3hr flights everywhere or being on cross-country road trips.
Not forgetting that at all. Just considering the importance of it when discussing travel. They can get a lot of studying done on a 2 hour flight.
 
Then hasn't it always been a watered down NFL if that's how you see it?
No, there used to be at least some connection when these student-athletes were, well, student-athletes. The bowl games, marching bands, and pageantry of college athletics were worth the price of watching these, for the most part, lesser skilled athletes.

It seems sad to me that you were never able to appreciate the difference between the NFL and the NCAA.
 
No, there used to be at least some connection when these student-athletes were, well, student-athletes. The bowl games, marching bands, and pageantry of college athletics were worth the price of watching these, for the most part, lesser skilled athletes.

It seems sad to me that you were never able to appreciate the difference between the NFL and the NCAA.
All those things are still part of college football. Every player is enrolled. If you're pretending they used to all care about school you're wrong. Bowl games have thankfully been replaced by a real playoff. Those game were meaningless and fans started to realize and accept that. Do bands no longer performer?

The only change is players get paid (which they should) and we have a larger playoff (which even Joe wanted) so what actually changed? The sad thing is you don't see that really nothing has. You just don't like them being paid and the much needed larger playoff.
 
Have you been following the Dartmouth case? And the USC Case might not be far behind.

Collective Bargaining for players is pretty much right around the corner. Schools will have to make some hard decisions. We may be getting to a point where we have Club teams playing as true “Student Athletes” at some schools, and the larger schools playing with nothing more than paid mercenaries who wouldn’t have gotten through the front door of Penn State when Joe was here.
There are roughly 100 different universities in the FBS, and their respective commitment to playing competitive football varies considerably. So, also, does their respective commitment to academics.

The NIL environment, along with free player transferability, will starkly illuminate the disparities between FBS schools in terms of their commitment to competing at the highest level. Many schools will simply opt out by refusing to pay big bucks to their football players. I think you are right, Bob. Those schools should move to a separate division so they can compete against other schools with a similar competitive/academic focus. My alma mater (Cal) would certainly fit in that less competitive division, while PSU would fit in the more competitive division. I will continue to root for and follow both teams in the near term, but I am not enthused about the future for teams in either of these two competitive models.
 
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All those things are still part of college football. Every player is enrolled. If you're pretending they used to all care about school you're wrong. Bowl games have thankfully been replaced by a real playoff. Those game were meaningless and fans started to realize and accept that. Do bands no longer performer?

The only change is players get paid (which they should) and we have a larger playoff (which even Joe wanted) so what actually changed? The sad thing is you don't see that really nothing has. You just don't like them being paid and the much needed larger playoff.
I have said all along that I think the players should be paid, so you are just making stuff up when you say I don't like them being paid.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree that nothing has really changed in the last 10 years or so. Good for you if you can look past those changes.
 
I have said all along that I think the players should be paid, so you are just making stuff up when you say I don't like them being paid.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree that nothing has really changed in the last 10 years or so. Good for you if you can look past those changes.

If you like them being paid what has changed?
An expanded playoff is great news for us. We'd have benefited from that more than anyone since the playoff expanded. So what are you actually complaining about that now it's no longer college football? Maybe I'd agree with you if you were explaining what changes you have an issue with? Nothing else has changed other than the portal which is no different than coaches moving around.
 
A reminder that what we need is for football to be split off into its own entity while the rest of the collegiate athletic department returns to regional-centric conferences.

In this instance, Penn State would be in an Olympic sports conference with Pitt, Syracuse, Villanova, WVU, etc. while your football team would assumingely be in a top-tier football division with Michigan, Notre Dame, OSU, etc.

I see it as a win/win because the top football powers can come together to create bigger ratings and revenue while the university saves traveling costs associated with regional conferences. There’s no reason why your XC teams should be competing with Oregon and Washington, for example.
This actually makes sense and maybe include basketball. Having the track team flying to the West Coast for meets makes no sense as with many of the other collegiate sports - NIL should force schools into rethinking how sprots are organized at the college level.
 
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