NPR...Remembering Gallipoli, the WWI battle that reshaped the Middle East
- Thread starter Michael.Felli
- Start date
Easily one of my favorite movies. Absolutely heart-breaking ending. Great repeated lines throughout - "How fast can you run Archie?" "As fast as a leopard" "how fast are you going to run?" "As fast as a leopard!"
That movie is criminally not well-known.
as much attention as Saving Private Ryan deserves for its brutal depiction of war (specifically beach assaults), this film came out in 1981 and is one continuous punch in the gut. cannot watch that ending any more, I get way too weepy
Australia lost almost an entire generation of young men in that battle, yet when I visited two memorials to Gallipoli in Australia, the inscription was the same, "...for God, King, and Empire", with no mention of Australia. That has always bothered me
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Here's a first person account of the battle. Brutal. One article I read that said after this battle, it was assumed by military strategists that there would never be a Naval assault on protected beaches again. They thought that modern weapons made it impossible. Hitler even felt the beaches of France were safe from serious attack because of Gallipoli.
But the Brits and Americans studied the battle in every detail before D-Day in Normandy to see where mistakes were made. The adapted their battle plans and won the beaches in Normandy.
My dad was part of the Normandy invasion. He told me that few realize the massive amounts of soldiers and equipment that was landed. In short, he told me the Germans had no idea of the "quantity" that was coming their way. He later told me that they had so many tanks in France they ran out of tank drivers and crews 
I think our victory in WWII was more about "industry" than anything else.
I think our victory in WWII was more about "industry" than anything else.
My dad was part of the Normandy invasion. He told me that few realize the massive amounts of soldiers and equipment that was landed. In short, he told me the Germans had no idea of the "quantity" that was coming their way. He later told me that they had so many tanks in France they ran out of tank drivers and crews
don't underestimate how the Allies used Operation Bodyguard to completely rope a dope the Germans into believing the wrong date and location for the invasion. Some people think D Day was this quick, massive victory for the Allies. It was as bloody and touch-and-go as depicted in Saving Private Ryan. and only then because the Germans were wholly unprepared for it.
---My dad was part of the Normandy invasion. He told me that few realize the massive amounts of soldiers and equipment that was landed. In short, he told me the Germans had no idea of the "quantity" that was coming their way. He later told me that they had so many tanks in France they ran out of tank drivers and crews
My dad was stationed in Britain during the build-up prior to the invasion. ( He was transferred to Italy before D-Day) He said there were tanks, artillery, trucks, planes, bombs, shells, fuel, food, and supplies everywhere. A Brit 'complained' to him, saying. "If you Yanks don't stop bringing stuff over, your going to sink the island!"
Old saying: When war comes, Amateurs talk tactics, Professionals talk logistics.
After WWI and because of Gallipoli and some other failures, the USMC undertook a study of amphibious warfare. What came out of this study was the need for doctrine, specialized landing craft and the importance of landing additional forces and the required logistics support quickly.
As WWII got going the US conducted two successful amphibious assaults, first the USMC at Guadalcanal and then the Army in North Africa. Lesson were learned and the doctrine refined as these and other amphibious assaults were conducted. Commanders saw the need for special landing craft, vehicles and systems. Examples were the Higgins Boat the LCVP (Landing Craft Vehicle or Personnel), the DUKW the "DUCK" and most important the LST (Landing Ship Tank). These along with the LSM, the LCI and LSM(R) allowed our forces to land additional men and the all important logistics, the beans, bullets and gas to quickly build up the initial lodgement and break out. Doctrine was refined to show the importance of naval bombardment, air support and deception operations. Airborne operations behind the assault beaches enhanced the success of the landing by getting more men into the fight and by blocking enemy reinforcements.
A couple of notes. "Saving Private Ryan" accurately shows the horror of Omaha Beach where the 2nd Rangers the 1st Infantry Division and the 29th Infantry Division landed. But by contrast Utah Beach where the 4th Infantry Division landed was a lot less bloody. On the comment that our victory was about industry I would say our industrial base being able to convert to military production was one of the keys, but it took more than just that to win. Remember we had to get all that gear across an ocean, then get it over a beach and then support it without an infrastructure (railroads, bridges, airfields etc) in place and we did that not just in Europe but the Pacific as well. First that meant winning the Battle of Atlantic or U-boats would have sunk the ships carrying the men and gear. In the Pacific that meant reducing the Japanese Navy threat. Next we had to force entry on a defended shore and then move inland quickly before the enemy could react. We had to support this offensive effort many miles from home and in Europe fed the civilian population. None of this was easy and we did it on two fronts and the same time. In the Pacific we had to maintain ships at sea thousands of miles from our shipyards. So there were many keys to victory.
After WWI and because of Gallipoli and some other failures, the USMC undertook a study of amphibious warfare. What came out of this study was the need for doctrine, specialized landing craft and the importance of landing additional forces and the required logistics support quickly.
As WWII got going the US conducted two successful amphibious assaults, first the USMC at Guadalcanal and then the Army in North Africa. Lesson were learned and the doctrine refined as these and other amphibious assaults were conducted. Commanders saw the need for special landing craft, vehicles and systems. Examples were the Higgins Boat the LCVP (Landing Craft Vehicle or Personnel), the DUKW the "DUCK" and most important the LST (Landing Ship Tank). These along with the LSM, the LCI and LSM(R) allowed our forces to land additional men and the all important logistics, the beans, bullets and gas to quickly build up the initial lodgement and break out. Doctrine was refined to show the importance of naval bombardment, air support and deception operations. Airborne operations behind the assault beaches enhanced the success of the landing by getting more men into the fight and by blocking enemy reinforcements.
A couple of notes. "Saving Private Ryan" accurately shows the horror of Omaha Beach where the 2nd Rangers the 1st Infantry Division and the 29th Infantry Division landed. But by contrast Utah Beach where the 4th Infantry Division landed was a lot less bloody. On the comment that our victory was about industry I would say our industrial base being able to convert to military production was one of the keys, but it took more than just that to win. Remember we had to get all that gear across an ocean, then get it over a beach and then support it without an infrastructure (railroads, bridges, airfields etc) in place and we did that not just in Europe but the Pacific as well. First that meant winning the Battle of Atlantic or U-boats would have sunk the ships carrying the men and gear. In the Pacific that meant reducing the Japanese Navy threat. Next we had to force entry on a defended shore and then move inland quickly before the enemy could react. We had to support this offensive effort many miles from home and in Europe fed the civilian population. None of this was easy and we did it on two fronts and the same time. In the Pacific we had to maintain ships at sea thousands of miles from our shipyards. So there were many keys to victory.
Your post made me do some research on the 115th Regiment of the 29th Division, lot of good stuff out there.
Again the key to our victory was our ability to produce more weapons/ships/planes/tanks that any other country. It is absolutely amazing the power our nation has when it needs to gear up for trouble! We single-handedly kept the British, French, Russians and Chinese in the war. There was a discussion about the greatest generation in another thread, aside from our founding fathers, there is no doubt that the WWII generation made our country what it is today.
I know we have grown soft since then, I wonder if we had to face and enemy with the strength and power of Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan would our current youth be up to the challenge? I don't know? It is scary how few people have an military training anymore? I work for a huge Investment Bank in NYC and I can count on one hand the amount of people who have military experience one hand besides myself (thank you PSU AROTC!) in my Department of close to 175 people! It sure isn't that way in Russia, China, North Korea our biggest enemies. Scary to think if we still match up for a WWII type sacrifice again. Hopefully we won't have to find out in the near future.
I was watching a documentary on the WWII US home-front a couple of years ago and it focused on a group of women in small town in Nebraska that was located on a busy rail-line that carried troops across the country each day. The troop trains stopped each day at this town to take on water and fuel. The women of the town took it upon themselves to meet every daily troop train with fresh coffee and doughnuts for the soldiers. They were interviewing the women that were still alive about their experiences and they were so proud that they met every troop train and never ran out of coffee or doughnuts over that four year period! The interviewer assumed that the government had paid them to prepare the coffee and doughnuts each day and they looked at him like he was from Mars? The ladies said they paid for every cup of coffee and doughnut out of their own pocket! They were able to get additional ration cards because of their work and some merchants gave them nice discounts because they knew what they are doing but they purchased every ingredient themselves for 4 years!!!! The interviewer then asked the women if they asked the government to reimburse them after the war for all the money they had spent on behalf of the troops and they said that it had never even crossed their minds!!
They were interviewing another one of the town women and she told a story about her brother who along with all the draft age men in the town volunteered for service after Pearl Harbor. They were sent off to basic training and about two weeks into their basic training, their Drill Instructor called a muster and the men lined up and the Army Paymaster started handing them cash. She said her brother and the men from the town were dumbfounded? They asked the DI what this money was for and he shouted it was your pay for the past two weeks!!! Her brother and the men from the town asked the DI we get paid for this? They had all just assumed that when your country needs you, you just go and serve and they never expected to be paid for their service!! It brought tears to my eyes when she finished the story. Could our generation match up with that sense of commitment? I doubt it. The WWII generation truly deserve the title "The Greatest Generation" .
I know we have grown soft since then, I wonder if we had to face and enemy with the strength and power of Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan would our current youth be up to the challenge? I don't know? It is scary how few people have an military training anymore? I work for a huge Investment Bank in NYC and I can count on one hand the amount of people who have military experience one hand besides myself (thank you PSU AROTC!) in my Department of close to 175 people! It sure isn't that way in Russia, China, North Korea our biggest enemies. Scary to think if we still match up for a WWII type sacrifice again. Hopefully we won't have to find out in the near future.
I was watching a documentary on the WWII US home-front a couple of years ago and it focused on a group of women in small town in Nebraska that was located on a busy rail-line that carried troops across the country each day. The troop trains stopped each day at this town to take on water and fuel. The women of the town took it upon themselves to meet every daily troop train with fresh coffee and doughnuts for the soldiers. They were interviewing the women that were still alive about their experiences and they were so proud that they met every troop train and never ran out of coffee or doughnuts over that four year period! The interviewer assumed that the government had paid them to prepare the coffee and doughnuts each day and they looked at him like he was from Mars? The ladies said they paid for every cup of coffee and doughnut out of their own pocket! They were able to get additional ration cards because of their work and some merchants gave them nice discounts because they knew what they are doing but they purchased every ingredient themselves for 4 years!!!! The interviewer then asked the women if they asked the government to reimburse them after the war for all the money they had spent on behalf of the troops and they said that it had never even crossed their minds!!
They were interviewing another one of the town women and she told a story about her brother who along with all the draft age men in the town volunteered for service after Pearl Harbor. They were sent off to basic training and about two weeks into their basic training, their Drill Instructor called a muster and the men lined up and the Army Paymaster started handing them cash. She said her brother and the men from the town were dumbfounded? They asked the DI what this money was for and he shouted it was your pay for the past two weeks!!! Her brother and the men from the town asked the DI we get paid for this? They had all just assumed that when your country needs you, you just go and serve and they never expected to be paid for their service!! It brought tears to my eyes when she finished the story. Could our generation match up with that sense of commitment? I doubt it. The WWII generation truly deserve the title "The Greatest Generation" .
Great post.
There's no way in hell that today's society in America could do what they did in WW2.
The code name for all deception activities was Fortitude. The fact that Patton was placed in northern England in charge of a fake Army was dumb luck. The Germans were convinced he would lead the assault because that's who they would place in charge. This trick, more than anything, held the Panzers in reserve for the 24-36 hours necessary to gain a beach head and control the roads needed for access by the Panzers. Imagine how things may have gone had Patton not slapped those soilders across the face.
Regarding D-Day, I doubt that the landing would have succeeded if the Allies didn't control the air and the sea. Even then it was touch and go.
Little known fact - the US staged amphibious landings in Vietnam up near Quang Tri. Most of the assault troops were RVN's, so the press more or less ignored it. And we controlled the air and the sea.
Little known fact - the US staged amphibious landings in Vietnam up near Quang Tri. Most of the assault troops were RVN's, so the press more or less ignored it. And we controlled the air and the sea.
