They didn't get in the last time because FOX wouldn't pay up. FOX wants Miami the presidents don't. I think a tradeoff between the presidents and FOX will happen there. The presidents will vote Miami in if FOX pays for Stanford.
Lets Talk Big 10 Expansion
- Thread starter PSU4U
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Agreed. The best high school prospects get drafted in the early rounds, sign with the organizations that draft them, and never play an inning of college ball. There are exceptions, but that's what they are, exceptions, not the norm. The college guys now getting drafted near the top typically were mid to late round guys who went to college and developed; outside of fans of their programs and true baseball geeks who actually follow the MLB draft (guilty), nobody knows who they are until they show up on an MLB roster. Given the MLB roster sizes, the competition from international players, and the limited options overseas, even good college players know they have little hope of making a living playing baseball.
Wouldn’t they pay up today for a Stanford $10m-$15m share for the next fee years. To me that makes sense for all parties and at worst it is break even for the conference and more than likely a profit for the conference. As I think about this 24-26 divided into regional pods is ideal with one more west coast school at partial share to keep the western pod viable is needed along with ND at obvious full share, pick one between fsu and miami at a full share, UVA at a partial share (uva tv viewership is subpar) and any 3 between GT, Clemson, UNC, Duke, and VA Tech (some schools can be partial shares and some of those would be full shares.)
Should the BIG decide to expand again, who is selected will likely be a function of programs that fill voids in the conference's DMA market footprint. AAU membership, size of stadiums, etc will have little to do with who gets the phone call. It's all about TV markets and the associated shekels.
The problem with the ‘partial share’ solutions is that eventually they become full shares.
Adding Stanford, UVA, GA Tech etc just makes no sense. They lose money for the conference and, on top of that, absolutely no one at those schools really cares about football which is driving realignment.
Sure, maybe Fox/ CBS kicks in some money with partial share Stanford to break even now but eventually Stanford will want and get a full share. Then you’re at a point where they are losing you money (per team payout) and you now can’t get rid of them as they’re a member of the conference.
Adding Stanford, UVA, GA Tech etc just makes no sense. They lose money for the conference and, on top of that, absolutely no one at those schools really cares about football which is driving realignment.
Sure, maybe Fox/ CBS kicks in some money with partial share Stanford to break even now but eventually Stanford will want and get a full share. Then you’re at a point where they are losing you money (per team payout) and you now can’t get rid of them as they’re a member of the conference.
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FOX sees Stanford as a long-term money pit. There seems to be no value there for them. But there is bargaining going on there over Stanford/Miami so we will have to wait and see how that works out. In the end I think Stanford and Miami both make it in. Could be wrong though. So many variables at play.
FSU will come in at full share with immediate voting rights. The same with UNC if they could land them, but that get is iffy at best at this point. ND the same as UNC.
Everyone else comes in on a graduated scale specific to each university at least that's what I've been told.
As for Stanford compared to a VA the Big 10 has a huge alumni base in VA and NC there is a market that's growing to be had there for FOX then consider the presidents desires on education research and those other things like financial health VA is a win win for FOX and the conference.
I have talked about pods for over a year and was laughed at (on main site) just like when I told people they would go to 24 teams with a playoff (FOX's idea) for conference champion and a 16 team national playoff, it's gonna happen. Now 24 teams the pods and conference playoff seems to be more accepted. Would be huge money for FOX and the conference.
I'm not sure the Big 10 can get to 24 schools just by cherry picking the ACC and I think two schools at least will have to come from somewhere else. If there is an all-out bidding war which I don't suspect the SEC will have a lot to say about who gets who out of the ACC. Actually, I think the ESPN and FOX work these things out behind the scenes.
FSU will come in at full share with immediate voting rights. The same with UNC if they could land them, but that get is iffy at best at this point. ND the same as UNC.
Everyone else comes in on a graduated scale specific to each university at least that's what I've been told.
As for Stanford compared to a VA the Big 10 has a huge alumni base in VA and NC there is a market that's growing to be had there for FOX then consider the presidents desires on education research and those other things like financial health VA is a win win for FOX and the conference.
I have talked about pods for over a year and was laughed at (on main site) just like when I told people they would go to 24 teams with a playoff (FOX's idea) for conference champion and a 16 team national playoff, it's gonna happen. Now 24 teams the pods and conference playoff seems to be more accepted. Would be huge money for FOX and the conference.
I'm not sure the Big 10 can get to 24 schools just by cherry picking the ACC and I think two schools at least will have to come from somewhere else. If there is an all-out bidding war which I don't suspect the SEC will have a lot to say about who gets who out of the ACC. Actually, I think the ESPN and FOX work these things out behind the scenes.
While a lot of people think it's all about the money in some ways it's not. Some things are still strongly valued by presidents who do the voting. Not enough votes and you don't get in.
Stanford is an example of being valued with the votes, but FOX wouldn't pay for them. But there is now hope for Stanford and it's over Miami. Fox wants Miami but the votes haven't been there. The presidents want Stanford, but FOX wouldn't pay up. I think there is a compromise of sorts coming.
What about Texas A&M? Is there any truth to the reports that they’re that upset with Texas joining the SEC that they would leave for the B1G? If there are no B1G plans to add additional schools in that part of the country it then appears to be foolish for them to want to leave to be on an island down there.
They have been throwing around some quiet threats. There has been contact but I don't think its going anywhere. Plus, right now the SEC and the Big 10 are playing Nicey-Nicey so I don't see Petitti upsetting that applecart when they want to mutually iron out the ACC thing. Petitti and Sankey have been spending time together on some big issues you would have to think the ACC would be one of those wink wink.
At one time the Big 10 wanted to be in TX and would probably have gotten TAMU too but that ship sailed when TX and OK went to the SEC. Geography is not as important as it once was but still a consideration. For those who kept saying OK was not a fit in the Big 10, they would have taken OK in a heartbeat.
This is part of the mess that the schools and networks have created or, perhaps better stated, have allowed to emerge. The top level of college football is becoming a full-blown professional league wholly detached from the educational part of the schools, but somehow partnerships with other schools sponsoring professional football teams benefits you academically. It made sense when schools still, realistically or not, thought of football as something integrated into the overall school mission and community. Moving forward, it's harder to see.
Sadly so Oh how I long for the good ole days but they're never coming back. Big money is in the drivers seat.
That ship sailed when they let in Oregon. I got a dog who probably would get accepted at Oregon.
There will still be places where college football in the more traditional sense will be played. G5 schools and the schools that get left behind from the P4 aren't going to stop playing football. They'll lose kids to the P4, but they'll still play as will FCS programs. I started following G5 football when my niece swam for one of the schools, and I am now a James Madison dad. The scale is smaller, but the atmosphere reminds me of PSU in the 70's and early 80's, and the quality of play is pretty darn good.
We completely disagree. The NFL has always used the NCAA as their developmental league. Since the 30s.
I see your point and that take has been true in the SEC forever but it's still different in the Big 10. Educationally they still look down their noses at other conferences. When you look at who the presidents would prefer to land Stanford VA UNC FSU and GT it's evident that some things are still valued. This will be the third time they have let GT know they are wanted twice under Delaney. They said no twice and VA and UNC once each. FOX had to make a deal with the presidents to get OR in. RU MD PS OSU MI and WI all said no along with ILL Indy and Purduka. Now that shoe is on the other foot where the ACC is concerned namely Clemson and Miami. But it's not quite time yet.
This is still the dumbest argument. The B1G isn't about academics regardless of what anyone wants to claim
I agree that the NFL has indirectly used the NCAA as their developmental league. That's not the argument.
It is the argument. It's always been a minor league for the NFL. Literally since the 30s. Nothing has changed aside from now players aren't being fully taken advantage of by the colleges. Players now have too much control but they didn't have enough in the past. You don't like the change but ultimately it's still the same. It has always existed to support the NFL. It's always been a minor league. Why fans care is they have ties to a specific school unlike the XFL/USFL/UFL where it's some random team.
I don't understand why you can't accept that reality
Not quite; a lot has changed since the 30's. The NFL was really not that big a deal until the 1960's with players routinely having to work second jobs in the off season to earn a decent living. The average salary in the 50s was about $75K in today's dollars and a lot of guys made less. Star player salaries in the league in the mid-60's translate to about $500K into today's dollars. If you weren't a star, you weren't getting close to that. Before that it was worse, and it was not uncommon for NFL teams to draft a guy only to see him pass on the opportunity and pursue a career in the field he studied in college. A football scholarship was actually a good deal for a player because he was trading four years of football for an opportunity to get an education that would put him a career that would pay far more and leave him far less physically damaged than the NFL. Things stated to change when the AFL started to compete with the NFL for stars by offering them more money and then the player strikes of the early 80's. Increased interest by the networks, partly fuel by the establishment of Fox in 1986, and growth of cable created the TV rights bonanza and salary explosion we see today.
The situation we see with colleges getting massive payouts is also a creature of the last 40 years and not the way things have always been. For years, the NCAA controlled all national television rights and intentionally limited the number of games so as to not hurt in person attendance (different times, indeed). The money they got, which wasn't much by today's standards, was evenly distributed to all member schools after the NCAA took its cut. At that point, the revenue sources for the programs were primarily the gate, radio broadcast rights, and donors. The CFA formed in 1977 by the top conferences and independents to give them control of the TV rights. What we see today in revenue is a product of a Supreme Court ruling in June 1984 that ended the NCAA's control of TV rights for all member programs and the cable TV explosion with opened the financial firehose.
All of this is very well documented and readily available on-line and in numerous books. It's not a matter of opinion, it's just historical facts.
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The reality is the high school players used to enroll in college to get a free education and to play football at a high level. Now they enroll for an NIL paycheck and to play football at a high level. Education is now a lower priority.
I don't know why you can't accept that.
Few enrolled to get the education. It was about football. I'm sorry but the belief all the kids wanted an education simply is rewriting history.
Also TCU recently slipped into the cross hairs of the SEC.
On UNC, on Thur their BOD will be discussing some things in a closed meeting with at least some of the BOG. One BOG recently made the statement that UNC should do what is best for UNC. Then later that week a UNC BOD came out and said virtually the same thing that UNC must do what is best for UNC. That should be an interesting meeting.
UNC and TCU are in growing states and likely have a lot of value for either conference. I think the B1G would be smart to go UNC, Duke, VA to lock up 3 great schools in two very large states. The largest fight between the two super conferences will be the state of North Carolina.
Duke is pretty much a tough add for even the Big 12. Rumore has it that Yormark wanted them as a basketball only school to which Duke is balked at. True that Duke has a great brand in basketball but this expansion thing is pretty much based solely on football. Just no money there for FOX and the Big 10 to add Duke. I admit it would be fun to see that basketball team in the Big 10.
If the Big and SEC are truly going to battle for ACC schools, which I doubt it isn't going to be for the Dukes or Wakes of the ACC. I hear there are more than enough votes for VA UNC Clemson GT FSU and Miami but only if FOX pays for the addition of Stanford the presidents still really want Stanford. FOX really wants Miami so we will see how that shakes out.
There is a lot against Miami. Their fanbase only shows up when they play a ranked team and then sometimes don't fill it up. Their brand is still valid but so yesterday. They don't have a stadium they play like sPitt in a rent a stadium. And other negatives like research and FSU already gives the Big 10 what they want in Fla among other things. For instance, PS is ranked I think 22nd in research reaching the Billion Dollar Club recently while Miami is something like 59th and nowhere near sniffing a Billion. Their positives are the are AAU (recently) and the financial health of their athletic dept is very good. IMO unless Miami gets some help, they may not make it into the Big 10 or the SEC and are probably headed for the Big 12. Back in the day for football they would have been a great add I think not so much today.
They didn't. They enrolled with the intent and belief they'd be in the NFL. Education was rarely the primary goal of anyone which remains true. This is just you wanting to believe something that never existed because of Paterno.
Take out Duke and I'm on board. I don't see the advantage of adding two NC schools. Same reason FSU and Clemson aren't locks for the SEC.
Financially there is absolutely no reason to take schools in states you already control especially if you have the media sewed up in that state.
Just one thing though on UNC I was told that if the only way the Big 10 could get UNC that UNC is so prized by the Big 10 Presidents and FOX that both might be on board with taking NCS. That would be a last resort situation. Taking NCS as a standalone university? No Way neither would have any interest.
So, if NCS makes it into the SEC or Big 10 it will have to be on the coattails of UNC. UNC by FOX is viewed as a sleeping giant. Please don't shoot the messenger.
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No shooting needed lol
NC State is the school that might be a winner here because of that--Duke has no shot
Believe it or not sPitt to the Big 10 has some Big 10 support even among PS Admin. But I don't ever see them getting in though Michigan supported them getting in over PS consider the school, I guess. Michigan has always been a bunch of haters. Oh and CHEATERS we don't ever want to forget that. On their first trip into Beaver Stadium they brought their own Referines who actually threw a flag on the crowed because we were to loud and disrupting the game. True story.
Put in perspective, my father-in-laws contract with the now defunct National Bowling League was for more than Len Dawson’s contract in KC.
I see a lot of names being bandied about as possible adds. One additional thing to consider, do the networks even need the extra inventory? In additon to the asking price, the networks let the Pac slide into oblivion because other than some late night games, there weren't really that many open slots during the day.
Certainly, you would take the top names with staying power, like a Forida State. But I have to wonder the value, of say, Clemson in 5 years. Clemson was Clemson for a long time. After a great run, they've been out of the Top 10 for three straight years.
Certainly, you would take the top names with staying power, like a Forida State. But I have to wonder the value, of say, Clemson in 5 years. Clemson was Clemson for a long time. After a great run, they've been out of the Top 10 for three straight years.
Clemson...no
But yes networks, in theory, want as many games with quality teams as possible
People have to look past the short term. Networks don't make decisions based on a year or two or even three but trends for 10-15 years out. Clemson is a take for brand alone and it's a new state to the Big and FOX. While they lack being in a big market Clemson is a successful national brand and lots of people all over the country tune in to see them play. Their athletic department is well off financially. To that effect they recruit nationally too. If Clemson wants in the Big 10 they will get in because FOX has leaked that they want them. My best guess on available info is that Clemson and FSU come in together. As they say these days on invites, they come in two x two.
FOX and the Big 10 are crazy after VA UNC Clemson and FSU all for brand and markets. I think the best way to look at Clemson is they are the OR of the southeast.
That's all fair. I'm having a hard rime buying into FSU and Clemson but crazier things have happened.
