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If Allar is at the Heisman ceremony in December...

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africamurphy

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Apr 1, 2019
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...what will that mean for Penn State's 2023 season...and beyond? We haven't had a transcendent offensive talent in decades (okay...Barkley but oh my oh my that offensive line in front of him...), but we've seen what elite QBs can do for teams in the recent past--Lawrence, Young, Caleb Williams...)

1. I'm going to say that Penn State won the Big Ten and made the playoffs. With UM and OSU being what they are this season, it's not even necessary that we went 12-0...just that we made it to the Big Ten title game and beat the West's rep.

2. For beyond 2023, I'd say PSU closes out 2024 recruiting class on fire (top 5 for once, instead of just top 10-15 like usual) and starts 2025 with a top ranked class and numerous top 50 national kids. We start to be mentioned in the same breath as the upper echelon programs again...not quite at the UGA level...but sniffing a tier right behind them.)

(For the record, I'm an Allar skeptic. I've only seen a few throws that have really impressed me and he seems a bit clumsy in the pocket. I'm seeing Sacca or Hackenberg right now...rather than Collins. But I would LOVE to be wrong...and it's June...so let's dream...)
 
africamurphy said:
...what will that mean for Penn State's 2023 season...and beyond? We haven't had a transcendent offensive talent in decades (okay...Barkley but oh my oh my that offensive line in front of him...), but we've seen what elite QBs can do for teams in the recent past--Lawrence, Young, Caleb Williams...)

1. I'm going to say that Penn State won the Big Ten and made the playoffs. With UM and OSU being what they are this season, it's not even necessary that we went 12-0...just that we made it to the Big Ten title game and beat the West's rep.

2. For beyond 2023, I'd say PSU closes out 2024 recruiting class on fire (top 5 for once, instead of just top 10-15 like usual) and starts 2025 with a top ranked class and numerous top 50 national kids. We start to be mentioned in the same breath as the upper echelon programs again...not quite at the UGA level...but sniffing a tier right behind them.)

(For the record, I'm an Allar skeptic. I've only seen a few throws that have really impressed me and he seems a bit clumsy in the pocket. I'm seeing Sacca or Hackenberg right now...rather than Collins. But I would LOVE to be wrong...and it's June...so let's dream...)
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Regardless of the OL, Saquon is the definition of that.
We definitely don't have to win the Big Ten for him to be at the ceremony. 11-1 and finishing second in the division could easily get him there and us to the playoffs if he blows up which he has to in order to be in the discussion.
 
Let's not and keep our crazy fantasies in a solid lightless box in solitary confinement. Well maybe just yours..if you are 10 years old or younger, I apologize. However, if you are over 10 years old, you are mature enough to just watch the games and let reality unfold before your eyes and actually acquaint your mind with learning a fragment of the real world as it unfolds before your very eyes.
 
africamurphy said:
...what will that mean for Penn State's 2023 season...and beyond? We haven't had a transcendent offensive talent in decades (okay...Barkley but oh my oh my that offensive line in front of him...), but we've seen what elite QBs can do for teams in the recent past--Lawrence, Young, Caleb Williams...)

1. I'm going to say that Penn State won the Big Ten and made the playoffs. With UM and OSU being what they are this season, it's not even necessary that we went 12-0...just that we made it to the Big Ten title game and beat the West's rep.

2. For beyond 2023, I'd say PSU closes out 2024 recruiting class on fire (top 5 for once, instead of just top 10-15 like usual) and starts 2025 with a top ranked class and numerous top 50 national kids. We start to be mentioned in the same breath as the upper echelon programs again...not quite at the UGA level...but sniffing a tier right behind them.)

(For the record, I'm an Allar skeptic. I've only seen a few throws that have really impressed me and he seems a bit clumsy in the pocket. I'm seeing Sacca or Hackenberg right now...rather than Collins. But I would LOVE to be wrong...and it's June...so let's dream...)
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Agree on your Allar assessment until we see more game action as the starter. I know the potential is there but the lack of experience in pressure situations (other than the Purdue game) leaves me saying "show me". Can he lead and rally the offense in critical situations to close out against the big two?
 
Black Friday Christmas GIF by Target
horse GIF
 
africamurphy said:
...what will that mean for Penn State's 2023 season...and beyond? We haven't had a transcendent offensive talent in decades (okay...Barkley but oh my oh my that offensive line in front of him...), but we've seen what elite QBs can do for teams in the recent past--Lawrence, Young, Caleb Williams...)

1. I'm going to say that Penn State won the Big Ten and made the playoffs. With UM and OSU being what they are this season, it's not even necessary that we went 12-0...just that we made it to the Big Ten title game and beat the West's rep.

2. For beyond 2023, I'd say PSU closes out 2024 recruiting class on fire (top 5 for once, instead of just top 10-15 like usual) and starts 2025 with a top ranked class and numerous top 50 national kids. We start to be mentioned in the same breath as the upper echelon programs again...not quite at the UGA level...but sniffing a tier right behind them.)

(For the record, I'm an Allar skeptic. I've only seen a few throws that have really impressed me and he seems a bit clumsy in the pocket. I'm seeing Sacca or Hackenberg right now...rather than Collins. But I would LOVE to be wrong...and it's June...so let's dream...)
Click to expand...
Oh, Geez, don't rush things
 
If PSU makes the football playoff, undefeated or one-loss to either tOSU or UM, it is entirely possible Allaar makes it to NY as a contender (however, if the QB from USC stays healthy, he'll win). The QB gets the glory even though PSU has great talent at every position. My point is that PSU could make the playoff with Allar being mediocre with the defense and RBs having a great year but he'd still get most of the credit. Historically, all of the candidates come from teams that won a lot of games and are mostly all QBs.

Regardless, it is entirely possible but not probable. We've got to beat everyone including at least one against tOSU and UM.

On Allar, we haven't seen him play a lot. But everyone, and I mean EVERYONE who has seems to feel he's the best prospect we've had in a long time (if ever). He moves just fine but looks slow because he's so big. He can throw on the run as well as anyone I've ever seen. And he's tough to bring down. If I had to compare to a QB, I'd say Rothlesburger. He had all the same complaints early in his career but did just fine.
 
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Nittany18 said:
I, for one, love your optimism.
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Except he's not optimistic, he said he's a skeptic and is already criticizing based on almost no meaningful game reps. Fact is we don't know what we have in Allar yet. OP wasn't saying Allar is Heisman level, he's asking that if we are somehow fortunate enough to see Allar as a Heisman finalist, what does that likely mean in terms of team accomplishments. I'd guess that would likely mean that at worst PSU went 11-1 in 2023 and might get a playoff berth, and it would set us up for a national title run in 2024 with a returning Heisman finalist at QB and a schedule with both of our toughest opponents at home. The 2023 schedule sets up nicely for Allar. His first big test will likely be the Iowa defense but he gets a few very winnable games under his belt before that, and the OSU, UM juggernauts are both late in the season.
 
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Obliviax said:
If I had to compare to a QB, I'd say Rothlesburger. He had all the same complaints early in his career but did just fine.
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I most commonly read snippets stating his NFL comp is Josh Allen. We'd be very lucky if that ends up being true.
 
I think he'd need to be more than mediocre to make it to the Heisman. You're right about QBs getting glory...but he has to stand out. I mean, Clifford went 11-2 last year but no one was nominating him for any awards. Stetson Bennet is probably a good comparison...amazing talent around him but he still made the machine go with his smarts and accuracy and scrambling. Was he the most talented bulldog offensive player...heck no...but he was the key to a great show.

Allar is young...and you're right...I've seen little game time of him so far...but Allen is an adept runner. He's not a Tebow with power...and he's not fleet of foot...but he's an excellent runner. I'll be amazed if Allar develops that side of his game like Allen has.
 
What stats would it take for Allar to be at the Heisman finals?

Team goes 11-1 or 12-0
Allar - 4,000+yards passing & 30 Tds, 5 rushing Td's
Receiver 1 - 1,700 yds & 14 Tds
Receiver 2 - 1,200 yds and 8Tds
Rest of team - 1,100 yds & 8 Tds
Singleton gets 1,300 yds rushing & 14 Tds
Allen - 1001 yds rushng and 9 Tds

This would be an exciting team to watch!!!
 
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proud2bpsufan said:
What stats would it take for Allar to be at the Heisman finals?

Team goes 11-1 or 12-0
Allar - 4,000+yards passing & 30 Tds, 5 rushing Td's
Receiver 1 - 1,700 yds & 14 Tds
Receiver 2 - 1,200 yds and 8Tds
Rest of team - 1,100 yds & 8 Tds
Singleton gets 1,300 yds rushing & 14 Tds
Allen - 1001 yds rushng and 9 Tds

This would be an exciting team to watch!!!
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Sure would be exciting.

Clifford passed for 2,822 yds last year as a 6th year senior.
Receiver1 (Washington) had 611 yds last year and receiver 2 (Tinsley) had 577 yds.

4,000 yds passing would be a HUGE increase. I'd be happy with 3,000 yds and no more than 7 INTs.
 
bdgan said:
Sure would be exciting.

Clifford passed for 2,822 yds last year as a 6th year senior.
Receiver1 (Washington) had 611 yds last year and receiver 2 (Tinsley) had 577 yds.

4,000 yds passing would be a HUGE increase. I'd be happy with 3,000 yds and no more than 7 INTs.
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Maybe I was a little too ambitious?!
 
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bdgan said:
Extreme longshot. Morelli & Hackenberg were rated higher than Allar and they didn't get close as upper classmen.
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Much better coaching now and Hackenberg was not recruited by Franklin's staff. That is definitely a glass is half empty view to compare Allar to Morelli and Hackenberg. Do you really believe that is the level where he will perform?
 
ryoder1 said:
Much better coaching now and Hackenberg was not recruited by Franklin's staff. That is definitely a glass is half empty view to compare Allar to Morelli and Hackenberg. Do you really believe that is the level where he will perform?
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Thinking it would be a long shot for a first year starter to be a Heisman finalist is a glass is half empty view?

I'm very optimistic about Allar but I think it's going to take some time for him to reach his potential. We'll have to wait and see how things play out.
 
bdgan said:
Thinking it would be a long shot for a first year starter to be a Heisman finalist is a glass is half empty view?

I'm very optimistic about Allar but I think it's going to take some time for him to reach his potential. We'll have to wait and see how things play out.
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Comparing him to Morelli and Hackenberg saying they were rated higher and didn't come close tells me you are drawing some kind of compsrison of the three. Maybe you don't think Allar is like the other two, it is just odd to bring them up. Of course, being in the running for the Heisman as a first year starter is a big reach but there is that and then playing like Anthony Morelli or Hackenberg. A lot of room in between.
 
Here's something to ponder. Allar couldn't beat out Cliff last year. Now I'm not saying he doesn't have more natural ability than SC....but how much is it reasonable to expect him to improve in one year? From behind Cliff to the Heisman? I'm not putting my eggs in that basket. Possible? Yes. Likely, LOL
 
marshall23 said:
Here's something to ponder. Allar couldn't beat out Cliff last year. Now I'm not saying he doesn't have more natural ability than SC....but how much is it reasonable to expect him to improve in one year? From behind Cliff to the Heisman? I'm not putting my eggs in that basket. Possible? Yes. Likely, LOL
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Did you really think he was beating out Clifford? That decision was made prior to him getting on campus. Plus a 6th year guy vs a true Freshman? So what are you getting at? Unless he makes dramatic improvement we have another Clifford or worse at QB? I agree it is highly doubtful he is going to NY for the Heisman but that doesn't mean he could not lead us to a 11-1 or even 12-0 season, for example.
 
ryoder1 said:
Comparing him to Morelli and Hackenberg saying they were rated higher and didn't come close tells me you are drawing some kind of compsrison of the three. Maybe you don't think Allar is like the other two, it is just odd to bring them up. Of course, being in the running for the Heisman as a first year starter is a big reach but there is that and then playing like Anthony Morelli or Hackenberg. A lot of room in between.
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It's not just Morelli & Hackenberg. We've had other 5* prospects like Shorter & Slade that didn't live up to their 5* rating.

I'm excited to see Allar play. In fact I think he's going to be special. But I'm also realistic enough to temper my expectations, especially as a first year starter.
 
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bdgan said:
It's not just Morelli & Hackenberg. We've had other 5* prospects like Shorter & Slade that didn't live up to their 5* rating.

I'm excited to see Allar play. In fact I think he's going to be special. But I'm also realistic enough to temper my expectations, especially as a first year starter.
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Yep, he seems to have "future star" written all over him but I just think he needs time to get there
 
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ryoder1 said:
Did you really think he was beating out Clifford? That decision was made prior to him getting on campus. Plus a 6th year guy vs a true Freshman? So what are you getting at? Unless he makes dramatic improvement we have another Clifford or worse at QB? I agree it is highly doubtful he is going to NY for the Heisman but that idoesn't mean he could not lead us to a 11-1 or even 12-0 season, for example.
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What am I getting at? I thought my post was pretty straight forward. High expectations often lead to disappointment and then the inevitable finger pointing. I think it's amusing to watch fans get out over their skis before we see any evidence that this team and QB will improve over last year's results. 10-11 win seasons are incredibly difficult to achieve.
 
marshall23 said:
What am I getting at? I thought my post was pretty straight forward. High expectations often lead to disappointment and then the inevitable finger pointing. I think it's amusing to watch fans get out over their skis before we see any evidence that this team and QB will improve over last year's results. 10-11 win seasons are incredibly difficult to achieve.
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So expecting the same old. Got it.
 
marshall23 said:
No. Understanding that expectations have no corollation to what will actually occur.
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Do you at least expect him to be better than a walk on? And yes, there is a correlation to how highly you are ranked as a recruit and on field performance. Just look at Bama, UGA and OSU. And yes, there are busts but overall there is a correlation. I am not saying Allar is taking us to the playoff but you have to at least expect an upgrade at QB. Again, maybe not right off the bat but as he gets more experience we should see him flourish and be better than Clifford, for example. Yes, I know there is no guarantee but to not raise your expectations even a little is a total glass half empty view.
 
ryoder1 said:
Do you at least expect him to be better than a walk on? And yes, there is a correlation to how highly you are ranked as a recruit and on field performance. Just look at Bama, UGA and OSU. And yes, there are busts but overall there is a correlation. I am not saying Allar is taking us to the playoff but you have to at least expect an upgrade at QB. Again, maybe not right off the bat but as he gets more experience we should see him flourish and be better than Clifford, for example. Yes, I know there is no guarantee but to not raise your expectations even a little is a total glass half empty view.
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Again, expectations are meaningless. I hope for all PSU players to excel. However, I prefer to watch game by game and let performance speak. Stars are great...but I also remember Hack, Slade and Shorter.
 
africamurphy said:
...what will that mean for Penn State's 2023 season...and beyond? We haven't had a transcendent offensive talent in decades (okay...Barkley but oh my oh my that offensive line in front of him...), but we've seen what elite QBs can do for teams in the recent past--Lawrence, Young, Caleb Williams...)

1. I'm going to say that Penn State won the Big Ten and made the playoffs. With UM and OSU being what they are this season, it's not even necessary that we went 12-0...just that we made it to the Big Ten title game and beat the West's rep.

2. For beyond 2023, I'd say PSU closes out 2024 recruiting class on fire (top 5 for once, instead of just top 10-15 like usual) and starts 2025 with a top ranked class and numerous top 50 national kids. We start to be mentioned in the same breath as the upper echelon programs again...not quite at the UGA level...but sniffing a tier right behind them.)

(For the record, I'm an Allar skeptic. I've only seen a few throws that have really impressed me and he seems a bit clumsy in the pocket. I'm seeing Sacca or Hackenberg right now...rather than Collins. But I would LOVE to be wrong...and it's June...so let's dream...)
Click to expand...
He bought a ticket…..😀
 
Just asking questions, folks. Notice the word "if" at the beginning of the thread title.

Clemson didn't have an elite QB for years...then DeShaun came along. Then Trevor...and now they have a 5-star kid in every class.

It happens. A kid comes in and takes the team to the next level. I'm waiting for our guy.

McGloin was smart and Trace had a spark and Cliff was gritty...and all made it into the league. But the sad fact remains...we haven't had an NFL star since Kerry Collins. And before him (if you want to call Blackledge a star, you'r reaching)...we never really had one.

LBU is due for a star at QB.
 
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africamurphy said:
Just asking questions, folks. Notice the word "if" at the beginning of the thread title.

Clemson didn't have an elite QB for years...then DeShaun came along. Then Trevor...and now they have a 5-star kid in every class.

It happens. A kid comes in and takes the team to the next level. I'm waiting for our guy.

McGloin was smart and Trace had a spark and Cliff was gritty...and all made it into the league. But the sad fact remains...we haven't had an NFL star since Kerry Collins. And before him (if you want to call Blackledge a star, you'r reaching)...we never really had one.

LBU is due for a star at QB.
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I’ll take another John Shaffer.
 
africamurphy said:
Just asking questions, folks. Notice the word "if" at the beginning of the thread title.

Clemson didn't have an elite QB for years...then DeShaun came along. Then Trevor...and now they have a 5-star kid in every class.

It happens. A kid comes in and takes the team to the next level. I'm waiting for our guy.

McGloin was smart and Trace had a spark and Cliff was gritty...and all made it into the league. But the sad fact remains...we haven't had an NFL star since Kerry Collins. And before him (if you want to call Blackledge a star, you'r reaching)...we never really had one.

LBU is due for a star at QB.
Click to expand...
Joepa wanted game managers not gunslingers @qb but kc and that whole offense was so good he had no choice but to air it out.There is no way they beat the Illini in 94 if joepa had played his close to the vest three yard offense
 
If a PSU Quaterback is invited to a Heisman awards ceremony; there is a good chance PSU wins their third Natty.
 
africamurphy said:
...what will that mean for Penn State's 2023 season...and beyond? We haven't had a transcendent offensive talent in decades (okay...Barkley but oh my oh my that offensive line in front of him...), but we've seen what elite QBs can do for teams in the recent past--Lawrence, Young, Caleb Williams...)

1. I'm going to say that Penn State won the Big Ten and made the playoffs. With UM and OSU being what they are this season, it's not even necessary that we went 12-0...just that we made it to the Big Ten title game and beat the West's rep.

2. For beyond 2023, I'd say PSU closes out 2024 recruiting class on fire (top 5 for once, instead of just top 10-15 like usual) and starts 2025 with a top ranked class and numerous top 50 national kids. We start to be mentioned in the same breath as the upper echelon programs again...not quite at the UGA level...but sniffing a tier right behind them.)

(For the record, I'm an Allar skeptic. I've only seen a few throws that have really impressed me and he seems a bit clumsy in the pocket. I'm seeing Sacca or Hackenberg right now...rather than Collins. But I would LOVE to be wrong...and it's June...so let's dream...)
Click to expand...
Haven't you heard? He's a bust and we are going 8-4
 
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