"How the college debt debate shifted with one big idea"

[BobPSU92]

NO. POLITICS. .

See the link below. From the article:

"(CNN) -- You have to hand it to Elizabeth Warren: The senator's slate of bold, transformational policy proposals has dominated the Democrats' conversation even if the presidential candidate herself has not dominated 2020 polls.

Her latest -- a proposal that according to her campaign's analysis would forgive $640 billion in student loans currently held by the government and make tuition largely free for public two- and four-year institutions -- would seek to address inequality, break down financial barriers to a college education and ease the debt burden on those who already went to school. The Massachusetts Democrat would finance it all with a tax on income over $50 million. That's also how she's pay for her universal pre-K proposal.

It would totally wipe away more than three-quarters of student loan balances in the country, according to an analysis by academics published on Warren's website.

There are other candidates for the Democratic nomination with plans to make college more affordable. Cory Booker would give every child a nest egg, funding those of lower-income children at a higher level, and Bernie Sanders has previously proposed a tuition subsidy program.

But Warren's proposal commanded new interest in the topic, although passing something of this magnitude in the Senate seems unlikely; Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, a Kentucky Republican, has vowed to be a "grim reaper" for progressive plans."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/24/politics/student-loan-crisis/index.html

Hopefully we can discuss this without making it about the LEFT. , the RIGHT. , or the WRONG. .

 

[Nitwit97]

Impossible.

Not the premise - just the idea of keeping left/right/wrong out of it!

Not sure how wiping away college debt takes care of inequality, it seems like vote pandering and a move toward socialism.

How would current 529 plans be addressed, etc?

Also - if everyone gets a college degree, then everyone has a college degree, and they become worthless.

 

[4rosco]

Just think what tuition will cost if universities know the federal government will be paying the tab. Tuition will skyrocket even faster.

 

[sluggo72]

NO. POLITICS. .

See the link below. From the article:

"(CNN) -- You have to hand it to Elizabeth Warren: The senator's slate of bold, transformational policy proposals has dominated the Democrats' conversation even if the presidential candidate herself has not dominated 2020 polls.

Her latest -- a proposal that according to her campaign's analysis would forgive $640 billion in student loans currently held by the government and make tuition largely free for public two- and four-year institutions -- would seek to address inequality, break down financial barriers to a college education and ease the debt burden on those who already went to school. The Massachusetts Democrat would finance it all with a tax on income over $50 million. That's also how she's pay for her universal pre-K proposal.

It would totally wipe away more than three-quarters of student loan balances in the country, according to an analysis by academics published on Warren's website.

There are other candidates for the Democratic nomination with plans to make college more affordable. Cory Booker would give every child a nest egg, funding those of lower-income children at a higher level, and Bernie Sanders has previously proposed a tuition subsidy program.

But Warren's proposal commanded new interest in the topic, although passing something of this magnitude in the Senate seems unlikely; Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, a Kentucky Republican, has vowed to be a "grim reaper" for progressive plans."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/24/politics/student-loan-crisis/index.html

Hopefully we can discuss this without making it about the LEFT. , the RIGHT. , or the WRONG. .

The funniest thing I saw about the student loan crisis was, Maxine Waters was grilling all of those fat cat bankers and asking just what they were going to do to help out , seeing how they were a bank and made loans
One by one she asked, their responses were ‘we haven’t made a student loan since 2009, 2010, we never made student loans and finally Jamie Dimon told her the Government took over the student loan program in 2010. She yielded her time
It seems the president at that time wanted to cut out the middle man. Now I wonder when the student debt exploded?

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Impossible.

Not the premise - just the idea of keeping left/right/wrong out of it!

Not sure how wiping away college debt takes care of inequality, it seems like vote pandering and a move toward socialism.

How would current 529 plans be addressed, etc?

Also - if everyone gets a college degree, then everyone has a college degree, and they become worthless.

Probably has a big impact on immigration too. If the US has more a more quality/qualified workforce, there is less need to supplement from foreign countries.

And even if ‘free’ not everyone would want or get a college degree.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

The funniest thing I saw about the student loan crisis was, Maxine Waters was grilling all of those fat cat bankers and asking just what they were going to do to help out , seeing how they were a bank and made loans
One by one she asked, their responses were ‘we haven’t made a student loan since 2009, 2010, we never made student loans and finally Jamie Dimon told her the Government took over the student loan program in 2010. She yielded her time
It seems the president at that time wanted to cut out the middle man. Now I wonder when the student debt exploded?

Before then. But which administration gutted the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau charged with protecting students from bad/predatory loans and loan managers? And who could hold companies like Navient accountable when they purposefully steered students eligible for the public service debt forgiveness program away from it?

 

[LionJim]

Just think what tuition will cost if universities know the federal government will be paying the tab. Tuition will skyrocket even faster.

Lol. Yeah.

 

[LurkerLazarus]

Impossible.

Not the premise - just the idea of keeping left/right/wrong out of it!

Not sure how wiping away college debt takes care of inequality, it seems like vote pandering and a move toward socialism.

How would current 529 plans be addressed, etc?

Also - if everyone gets a college degree, then everyone has a college degree, and they become worthless.

They are already not worth as much as they used to be.

 

[PSU Mike]

Let's just say I'm not fond of a few million people (let me be clear, not all who have student loan debt fall into this group) who made worse decisions than myself and my family getting tens of thousands in windfall. It's rewarding a large number of the wrong people.

I still remember kids whose parents drove far nicer cars than us, had bigger homes than us, and had all the cool TVs, etc when I was a kid get more student aid than me because my parents saved at a much higher rate of their lower income. It sucked.

I think there will be some form of debt relief. But I'd rather see it come in the form of preferred tax status on student loan interest rather than outright forgiveness.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Let's just say I'm not fond of a few million people (let me be clear, not all who have student loan debt fall into this group) who made worse decisions than myself and my family getting tens of thousands in windfall. It's rewarding a large number of the wrong people.

I still remember kids whose parents drove far nicer cars than us, had bigger homes than us, and had all the cool TVs, etc when I was a kid get more student aid than me because my parents saved at a much higher rate of their lower income. It sucked.

I think there will be some form of debt relief. But I'd rather see it come in the form of preferred tax status on student loan interest rather than outright forgiveness.

A lot are military/former military and teachers who got roped into tons of debt based on lies about job placement and what their debt would be like after graduation.

 

[razpsu]

Pay the student loan back. How about teaching adults! about responsibility. Forgive this and what else in the future do they not payback. Sounds more political than anything.

 

[sluggo72]

Before then. But which administration gutted the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau charged with protecting students from bad/predatory loans and loan managers? And who could hold companies like Navient accountable when they purposefully steered students eligible for the public service debt forgiveness program away from it?

So you don’t think it’s funny ( not in a ha ha way) the ranking house member of the financial services committee ,who over sees the banks had no clue ,none ,nada ,idea that the banks had not made student loans for almost a decade?

 

[NittPicker]

And even if ‘free’ not everyone would want or get a college degree.

There are a lot of good jobs put there which don't require a four year degree. Many of those jobs may require a two year degree which is great from a student debt standpoint. Still, many people push the four year degree idea as if it's the only path to success.

I'm not a historian so I often wonder how it became so ingrained in us that a baccalaureate degree must be 120 credits (give or take a few). Many of those are general education credits which are supposed to broaden the horizons of a young person. That may have been a good idea a century ago when most students weren't exposed to many things outside of their community but the world has changed. New students aren't wide eyed kids anymore. There are also more older people attending college for the first time. Curricula could easily be changed to create baccalaureate degrees of fewer than 120 credits and therefore make them more affordable. Universities have no incentive to do this because it would negatively affect their revenue. Ideally they would work with accreditation bodies to create curricula which are more in line with today's reality.

I also agree with the above post which says the offer of free tuition is pandering. No, it's not free. Someone is paying for it. And regardless of what anyone says (left or right) about a big policy change it won't pay for itself. "Free" tuition won't pay for itself. Drastic tax cuts without drastic spending cuts won't pay for themselves.

 

[interrobang]

Meanwhile, still absolutely no push to criticize schools for jacking up tuition and upping non-educational spending as a result.

It's really no different of a scenario than big pharma jacking up drug prices. But yet pharma has gotten plenty of criticism for raising prices. Why hasn't higher education?

Society has basically given higher ed a pass, just merely accepted the high prices, while trying to find ways to help those paying for it

 

[Kiber]

As the old saying goes "Someone eventually has to pay for it". Nothing is "free". Eventually someone has to pay ... and usually when it comes to politician's ideas that "someone" who ends up "paying" is the tax payers.

 

[Lionguy32]

Pay the student loan back. How about teaching adults! about responsibility. Forgive this and what else in the future do they not payback. Sounds more political than anything.

The situation really has little to do with responsibility. The problem is high interest debt that keeps compounding and less jobs available that provide the means to pay it back.

 

[Kiber]

Want free education. Then I say we should adopt a system like they have in some other countries (such as Israel) where everyone is also required to serve in military. I believe Israel has a mandatory 2-year military service term. Everyone graduating from HS has to serve 2 years. After their service, Israel then re-pays them for their service with free college education.

Make people EARN that free education. Make college 100% free for 4 years ----- you have 4 years to earn a 4 year degree ----- IF you want to get 100% of a 4 year degree paid for, then enlist for a 2-year term in the US Military.

With the increased participation in the military, they could allocate some of the resources to other areas such as disaster relief/recovery.

 

[sluggo72]

Meanwhile, still absolutely no push to criticize schools for jacking up tuition and upping non-educational spending as a result.

It's really no different of a scenario than big pharma jacking up drug prices. But yet pharma has gotten plenty of criticism for raising prices. Why hasn't higher education?

Society has basically given higher ed a pass, just merely accepted the high prices, while trying to find ways to help those paying for it

OTOH the CEO of Olive Gardens said that the competition for his customers dollars wasn’t other restaurants but it was people’s cell phone data plans.
I think that causes a lot of student debt

 

[PS4814]

So you don’t think it’s funny ( not in a ha ha way) the ranking house member of the financial services committee ,who over sees the banks had no clue ,none ,nada ,idea that the banks had not made student loans for almost a decade?

Doesn't make his point any less relevant.

 

[Kiber]

The situation really has little to do with responsibility. The problem is high interest debt that keeps compounding and less jobs available that provide the means to pay it back.

Ahhhhh. I graduated in 1988. Back in 1988 the student loans also had high interest that kept compounding........... Amazingly myself, and many people from my generation found a way to get a freaking job and pay back our responsibility. It took me over 5 years, and it took me paying every spare penny I had, but I found a way to pay my loans back.

 

[ericstratton-rushchairman]

The world needs ditch diggers too

 

[sluggo72]

Doesn't make his point any less relevant.

That wasn’t the question now was it?

 

[Lionguy32]

Ahhhhh. I graduated in 1988. Back in 1988 the student loans also had high interest that kept compounding........... Amazingly myself, and many people from my generation found a way to get a freaking job and pay back our responsibility. It took me over 5 years, and it took me paying every spare penny I had, but I found a way to pay my loans back.

That's great and something to be proud of. But to make an assumption that the entire student loan crisis is caused by a lazy generation of irresponsible people is completely inaccurate.

 

[sluggo72]

That's great and something to be proud of. But to make an assumption that the entire student loan crisis is caused by a lazy generation of irresponsible people is completely inaccurate.

Who has been in charge of student loans for the last 10 yrs? And when did this crisis explode?

 

[PS4814]

Let's just say I'm not fond of a few million people (let me be clear, not all who have student loan debt fall into this group) who made worse decisions than myself and my family getting tens of thousands in windfall. It's rewarding a large number of the wrong people.

I still remember kids whose parents drove far nicer cars than us, had bigger homes than us, and had all the cool TVs, etc when I was a kid get more student aid than me because my parents saved at a much higher rate of their lower income. It sucked.

I think there will be some form of debt relief. But I'd rather see it come in the form of preferred tax status on student loan interest rather than outright forgiveness.

Your anecdote about others saving less has nothing to do with the way current federal loans are administered. When students complete the FAFSA (free application for federal student aid) it only looks at their parent/guardian's tax returns. What they have in the bank, or how they have saved or not saved over the years.

Now if you want to look at that kind of info you would be required to complete the CSS profile - but that is outside of the feds so you can't blame the government for that one.

 

[interrobang]

The world needs ditch diggers too

There are plenty of good paying blue collar jobs out there that don't require college.

 

[SR108]

NO. POLITICS. .

See the link below. From the article:

"(CNN) -- You have to hand it to Elizabeth Warren: The senator's slate of bold, transformational policy proposals has dominated the Democrats' conversation even if the presidential candidate herself has not dominated 2020 polls.

Her latest -- a proposal that according to her campaign's analysis would forgive $640 billion in student loans currently held by the government and make tuition largely free for public two- and four-year institutions -- would seek to address inequality, break down financial barriers to a college education and ease the debt burden on those who already went to school. The Massachusetts Democrat would finance it all with a tax on income over $50 million. That's also how she's pay for her universal pre-K proposal.

It would totally wipe away more than three-quarters of student loan balances in the country, according to an analysis by academics published on Warren's website.

There are other candidates for the Democratic nomination with plans to make college more affordable. Cory Booker would give every child a nest egg, funding those of lower-income children at a higher level, and Bernie Sanders has previously proposed a tuition subsidy program.

But Warren's proposal commanded new interest in the topic, although passing something of this magnitude in the Senate seems unlikely; Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, a Kentucky Republican, has vowed to be a "grim reaper" for progressive plans."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/24/politics/student-loan-crisis/index.html

Hopefully we can discuss this without making it about the LEFT. , the RIGHT. , or the WRONG. .

IMO, the issue is more about why the cost of a college education has become so expensive. I’m pretty sure handing out student loans like candy has something to do with it, kind of a vicious cycle.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/2298925-a-vicious-cycle-fuels-the-massive-student-loan-bubble

 

[PS4814]

There are plenty of good paying blue collar jobs out there that don't require college.

Grey collar jobs is the new lingo for occupations that incorporate some of the elements of both blue- and white-collar, and generally are in between the two categories in terms of income-earning capability.

Grey-collar workers often have licenses, associate degrees or diplomas from a trade or technical school in a particular field. They are unlike blue-collar workers in that blue-collar workers can often be trained on the job within several weeks whereas grey-collar workers already have a specific skill set and require more specialized knowledge than their blue-collar counterparts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey-collar

These kinds of jobs that we need to be steering kids into. Trade schools & community colleges are in the best place to help with this. Problem is that we've told 2 generations of folks that 4 year college is the only way to a good life. Until we change the mindset of parents across the nation we'll be in the same boat with tons of over educated and underemployed folks unable to pay off their debts.

 

[BobPSU92]

Want free education. Then I say we should adopt a system like they have in some other countries (such as Israel) where everyone is also required to serve in military. I believe Israel has a mandatory 2-year military service term. Everyone graduating from HS has to serve 2 years. After their service, Israel then re-pays them for their service with free college education.

Make people EARN that free education. Make college 100% free for 4 years ----- you have 4 years to earn a 4 year degree ----- IF you want to get 100% of a 4 year degree paid for, then enlist for a 2-year term in the US Military.

With the increased participation in the military, they could allocate some of the resources to other areas such as disaster relief/recovery.

Is legally mandating that today's SNOWFLAKES. serve in the military going to make us safe?

 

[LemonEars]

I don't understand why student loans are being singled out for forgiveness. Those who need student loan forgiveness made a stupid financial decision. Why not be fair and forgive all stupid financial decisions? Why not pay off the $25K credit card balance of a 23 year old who bought 300 pairs of designer shoes? Why not pay off the loan for a kid who bought a $90K Corvette and now can't pay for it? What about the young couple who bought a $400K home and now can't make the mortgage payment? Why aren't these people entitled to loan forgiveness as much as those who made stupid student loan decisions? I don't understand the reasoning behind giving preferential treatment to stupid student loan decisions.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Let's just say I'm not fond of a few million people (let me be clear, not all who have student loan debt fall into this group) who made worse decisions than myself and my family getting tens of thousands in windfall. It's rewarding a large number of the wrong people.

I still remember kids whose parents drove far nicer cars than us, had bigger homes than us, and had all the cool TVs, etc when I was a kid get more student aid than me because my parents saved at a much higher rate of their lower income. It sucked.

I think there will be some form of debt relief. But I'd rather see it come in the form of preferred tax status on student loan interest rather than outright forgiveness.

Great points, Mike. Why should we all take on the debts of people who voluntarily racked up huge student loan obligation? And for those who did rack up a lot of debt - but diligently paid it down - how would they feel about now bailing out people of their same age who chose to spend their income on cars and houses rather than paying down student debt?

 

[indynittany]

I don't understand why student loans are being singled out for forgiveness. Those who need student loan forgiveness made a stupid financial decision. Why not be fair and forgive all stupid financial decisions? Why not pay off the $25K credit card balance of a 23 year old who bought 300 pairs of designer shoes? Why not pay off the loan for a kid who bought a $90K Corvette and now can't pay for it? What about the young couple who bought a $400K home and now can't make the mortgage payment? Why aren't these people entitled to loan forgiveness as much as those who made stupid student loan decisions? I don't understand the reasoning behind giving preferential treatment to stupid student loan decisions.

It's for the children!

 

[Lionguy32]

Why not pay off the loan for a kid who bought a $90K Corvette and now can't pay for it? What about the young couple who bought a $400K home and now can't make the mortgage payment? .

If you can't pay off a car loan or a mortgage, your lenders will take your car or house from you. Kind of hard to do that with an education.

 

[Art]

Just think what tuition will cost if universities know the federal government will be paying the tab. Tuition will skyrocket even faster.

If the Federal government is paying the freight, the Feds will have considerable say in how these places are run.

Andrew Yang has an interesting proposal, though not necessarily related to Warren's . He point to the bloat in college administrations. Don't recall his base year, but mentioned that at one point, the ratio of students to administrators was 50:1. Currently it's 21:1. Yang proposes transitioning to 30:1. Colleges either sign on, or don't get Federal funding.

 

[indynittany]

Is legally mandating that today's SNOWFLAKES. serve in the military going to make us safe?

Possibly, because if they serve, they're unlikely to remain snowflakes for very long.

 

[poker1]

The funniest thing I saw about the student loan crisis was, Maxine Waters was grilling all of those fat cat bankers and asking just what they were going to do to help out , seeing how they were a bank and made loans
One by one she asked, their responses were ‘we haven’t made a student loan since 2009, 2010, we never made student loans and finally Jamie Dimon told her the Government took over the student loan program in 2010. She yielded her time
It seems the president at that time wanted to cut out the middle man. Now I wonder when the student debt exploded?

Maybe so, but there are still many outstanding loans from before 2010. And you can still get new private loans from some banks. Cutting out the middle man did reduce interest rates though that may have the unintended consequence of attracting more debt. Most of the increase in college costs is due to administrative bloat and an explosion in vanity capital projects undertaken by those administrators.

 

[indynittany]

The situation really has little to do with responsibility. The problem is high interest debt that keeps compounding and less jobs available that provide the means to pay it back.

It does when you borrow $100,000 to become a social worker.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I don't understand why student loans are being singled out for forgiveness. Those who need student loan forgiveness made a stupid financial decision. Why not be fair and forgive all stupid financial decisions? Why not pay off the $25K credit card balance of a 23 year old who bought 300 pairs of designer shoes? Why not pay off the loan for a kid who bought a $90K Corvette and now can't pay for it? What about the young couple who bought a $400K home and now can't make the mortgage payment? Why aren't these people entitled to loan forgiveness as much as those who made stupid student loan decisions? I don't understand the reasoning behind giving preferential treatment to stupid student loan decisions.

Is the Fed guaranteeing your car loan? Or mortgage? The feds tried to hold predatory lenders accountable with the CFPB - some think oversight of federal monies isn’t worth it and they neutered it. Who has oversight of the loans kids receive who want to go into public service? No one.

 

[indynittany]

Maybe so, but there are still many outstanding loans from before 2010. And you can still get new private loans from some banks. Cutting out the middle man did reduce interest rates though that may have the unintended consequence of attracting more debt.

The fed's suppression of interest rates for more than a generation has made this and many otherwise poor decisions look reasonable.

 

[Raffycorn]

Ahhhhh. I graduated in 1988. Back in 1988 the student loans also had high interest that kept compounding........... Amazingly myself, and many people from my generation found a way to get a freaking job and pay back our responsibility. It took me over 5 years, and it took me paying every spare penny I had, but I found a way to pay my loans back.

Tuition at Penn State in 1988 was $3,000.