Hamels going to Texas Rangers

[Nitwit]

Trade to be finalized either later tonight or tomorrow. Phillies to get an outfielder, a pitcher, and a catcher in return. According to Fox Sports' Jon Morosi, the Phillies agreed to trade Hamels to the Texas RangersWednesday night in exchange for outfield prospect Nick Williams, catching prospect Jorge Alfaro, right-handed pitching prospect Jerad Eickhoff and "at least one more player."

 

[LundyPSU]

Trade to be finalized either later tonight or tomorrow. Phillies to get an outfielder, a pitcher, and a catcher in return. According to Fox Sports' Jon Morosi, the Phillies agreed to trade Hamels to the Texas RangersWednesday night in exchange for outfield prospect Nick Williams, catching prospect Jorge Alfaro, right-handed pitching prospect Jerad Eickhoff and "at least one more player."

And more...excellent return for the Phils

 

[Nitwit]

Another pitcher named Asher is part of the deal. Phillies give up Diekman in the trade. I don't follow baseball closely enough to know what kind of return this is for the Phillies.

 

[LundyPSU]

Another pitcher named Asher is part of the deal. Phillies give up Diekman in the trade. I don't follow baseball closely enough to know what kind of return this is for the Phillies.

Add in jake Thompson and Harrison.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Good move by the Phils. Wonder what the Dodgers were offering.

 

[LundyPSU]

Harrison coming off major back surgery, so not much to count on there. Alfaro and Williams key pieces. Wonder how much cash the Phils are sending to Texas. Seems like a very good return for Cole.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Wonder what the Dodgers were offering.

No word on that. They seem to be involved in a 3-way trade with the Fish and the Braves. CLICK HERE for that story.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Seems to be:
Phils trade:
Hamels and Jake Diekman

Texas trades:
Catcher Jorge Alfaro
OF Nick Williams
P Alec Asher
P Jerad Eickhoff
P Matt Harrison
P Jake Thompson

From Phuture Phillies web site, at THIS LINK:

Jorge Alfaro is a 22 year old AA catcher who was hitting .253/.314/.432 with 5HR and 21RBI’s to go along with a 28% caught stealing rate before going down with a significant left ankle injury. He has been out 6 weeks and could miss the remainder of the season.

OF Nick WIlliams was the Rangers 2nd round pick in the 2012 draft out of Ball High School in Galvaston, TX. Just 21, Williams has spent this season at AA Frisco, hitting .300/.357/.480 with 13HR 45RBI and 10SB. He walks at an 8% ate, while striking out in 18% of his plate appearances.

23 year old Alec Asher was the Rangers 4th round pick in the 2012 draft and has made 12 starts for AAA Round Rock this season going 3-6 with a 4.73ERA in 64.2IP. He sports a solid 2.6/7.5 walk to K ratio to go along with a 1.39 WHIP.

Jerad Eickhoff, 25, was the Rangers 15th round pick in the 2011 draft. He has pitched all season for AAA Round Rock, going 8-4 with a 4.47ERA in 17 starts, spanning 96.2 innings. His WHIP sits at 1.30 and his BB/K ratio is a solid 3.1/9.0.

29 year old LHP Matt Harrison is part of the deal and is owed in excess of $26M guaranteed over the next two seasons. He has made a total of 9 major league starts over the last two seasons due to multiple injuries. Harrison does have an abundance of talent if healthy, having won 18 games for the Rangers in the 2012 season, throwing in excess of 210 innings with an outstanding 3.29 ERA.

21 year old RHP Jake Thompson who was originally a 2012 2nd round pick by the Tigers is also part of the deal. Thompson is 6-6 with a 4.72 ERA in 17 starts for AA Frisco this season having thrown 87.2 innings and a 3.1/8.0 walk to strikeout ratio. Thompson currently has a rather high WHIP of 1.41, but had an excellent 2014 season where he went 10-5 with a 3.12 ERA in 25 starts between High A and AA.

Jake Thompson, Nick Williams and Jorge Alfaro were the #3, 4 and 5 prospects in the Baseball America’s mid season organizational rankings for the Rangers system. Alec Asher ranks as the #13 prospect in the Rangers system.

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

Not disappointed at all with this. Huge return. Wanted Mazara but getting 3/5 of the top prospects in a loaded organization works for me.

Williams and Alfara look like they could be be really good for a long time. Thompson sealed this as a really good trade. Then the two wild cards. I don't care about the money, it's not mine.

 

[bmw199]

I don't like this deal. It's a ton of parts but sorry nothing that looks like a sure thing. Williams might be a contributor down the line and Alfaro has a lot of offense for a catcher, but we'll be going from one of the best defensive/game calling catchers in the league to one who'd rather DH, and that's if he works out and stays healthy. Thompson is young so maybe... I would have rather held onto Cole. In the end I doubt we look back on this as a good deal if Cole stays healthy.

But hey they only have like 45 mil on the books next year now so they can go out and spend $140 on FA is they want this offseason. Can buy some pretty nice players with that cash.

 

[cjrugger]

You guys are great. After a week of 'turning down' deals around Soler and Baez and requiring the Seagar/Urias' of the world, or even Mazara, you're thrilled with this haul

 

[Nittany Security]

I think if one of these guys pan out to be a high level player in the future it is a good deal. The Phils need to start moving on from reminiscing of the good ole days of winning with Utley, Hamels, Howard and the like. On to the next group.

 

[LundyPSU]

You guys are great. After a week of 'turning down' deals around Soler and Baez and requiring the Seagar/Urias' of the world, or even Mazara, you're thrilled with this haul

You missed the point. Seager and Urias are the prospects to get from the Dodgers. Too big a drop off to accept anything else from Dodgers. I would have been happy with Baez and others. Baez would not have gotten it done alone.
I think this is a good deal for the Phils. Alfaro and Williams with high ceilings. Not thrilled with getting Harrison. I would have preferred Chi Chi instead of one of the other pitchers, but the deal is good. Good for the Rangers too

 

[PennStateNate]

IMO Rangers won this deal. Hamels return should have been higher, he just pitched a no hitter.

 

[bjf1984]

You missed the point. Seager and Urias are the prospects to get from the Dodgers. Too big a drop off to accept anything else from Dodgers. I would have been happy with Baez and others. Baez would not have gotten it done alone.
I think this is a good deal for the Phils. Alfaro and Williams with high ceilings. Not thrilled with getting Harrison. I would have preferred Chi Chi instead of one of the other pitchers, but the deal is good. Good for the Rangers too

The Phils certainly didn't - IMHO - get any "can't miss" prospects.......but, by picking up the 25-30 Million owed to Harrison, they added some quantity of prospects - and increased the chances that one or two of the guys will eventually help out the big league club. The biggest item was that they are now out from under the contract - and even eating the Harrison money, they trim 50 million or so from their obligations..

No one should know better than the Phils how huge long-term contracts for 30+ year old pitchers can cripple a team (Lee? Halladay?). If they can find some way to convince someone to take on a significant chunk of the 35 million or so they still owe Howard, along with having Lee and Utley come off the books next year, and now being free of the Hamels deal......if they play things smart from here forward, they've got a chance to start moving in the right direction - IMHO.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

The Phils certainly didn't - IMHO - get any "can't miss" prospects.......but, by picking up the 25-30 Million owed to Harrison, they added some quantity of prospects - and increased the chances that one or two of the guys will eventually help out the big league club. The biggest item was that they are now out from under the contract - and even eating the Harrison money, they trim 50 million or so from their obligations..

No one should know better than the Phils how huge long-term contracts for 30+ year old pitchers can cripple a team (Lee? Halladay?). If they can find some way to convince someone to take on a significant chunk of the 35 million or so they still owe Howard, along with having Lee and Utley come off the books next year, and now being free of the Hamels deal......if they play things smart from here forward, they've got a chance to start moving in the right direction - IMHO.

Add that to the fact that Rube is reduced to getting coffee and sandwiches for Gillick and the other real baseball men in the F.O. and we have a formula for future success.

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

IMO Rangers won this deal. Hamels return should have been higher, he just pitched a no hitter.

They won it how? They kept their best best prospect but the Phillies just have gained three guys that will be top ten in the system and are top 100 prospects in baseball. Three years from now the winner/loser might look a lot different. Hamels threw a no hitter yeah, but he always was a great pitcher. No team out there didn't realize that. Prospects are on a higher value level than they have ever been.

Hamels is worth what the highest bidder paid. The Rangers won the bidding. If he would break down he has no value, now instead the Phillies have a whole group of guys that COULD turn into very good major league players.

Definitely rooting for Hamels to keep kicking ass though. Great guy to follow as a fan for a long time.

 

[Ranger Dan]

I'm a little underwhelmed about this trade. The Phils got volume, but I'm not sure about the talent. Of course, they could all end up being all stars, but they could all completely flop as well. As someone above said, there doesn't seem to be a can't miss guy in the players the Ranger's gave up, and they got a proven ace/workhorse.

 

[bmw199]

Now they have $130 mill or so to spend in free agency if they want. Crap, they could sign Grienke and Zimmerman and still sign another slugger like Chris Davis or someone like that. They're going to buy out both Utley and Lee

 

[Cletus11]

Only time will tell obviously. Only issue I see is that I would have really liked to have seen the Phils get a legit major league guy in the trade. Either a AAA guy who was scheduled to come up this fall and is the real deal or a rookie in the majors this year.

I hope the Phils take all the money saved and actually go out and get a few decent players this year in off season. I don't want Phils to go sign somebody for multiple years at $100+ million, but go get a couple of Raul Ibanez type players that you can sign for 2 years at reasonable money, will be good veteran clubhouse guys to mentor the young team, and provide enough talent to at least win some games.

 

[psulongago]

Actually like the trade. Hamels is a quality pitcher but look at his two starts before the no-hitter. In the AL he will have to face an extra hitter (DH). Holding onto him runs the risk of injury, less than stellar performance and the added competition of many more free agent pitchers entering the market after the season. It doesn't matter what the team does, people will complain.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

I hope the Phils take all the money saved and actually go out and get a few decent players this year in off season. I don't want Phils to go sign somebody for multiple years at $100+ million, but go get a couple of Raul Ibanez type players that you can sign for 2 years at reasonable money, will be good veteran clubhouse guys to mentor the young team, and provide enough talent to at least win some games.

The Phils have to be somewhat careful here. If the season ended today, they'd have the #1 pick in each round of next year's MLB draft. If they sign a FA that had turned down a qualifying offer from their former team, the Phils would lose their pick in the 2nd round. (For most teams, they'd lose their pick in the 1st round for signing such a FA, but the first 10 picks are protected from the FA penalty.)

The Phils' farm system was the foundation of their great run over the past decade. However, between finishing high each year during the run (and thus having draft picks near the end of each round), their signing FAs and thus losing their 1st round pick, or their trading some of their draft picks, their farm system was pretty thin when their stars started getting injured or playing at a level below their peak.

A FA who rejected a qualifying offer to sign with the Phils is far more likely to provide immediate help to the MLB club than the #1 pick in the 2nd round. It's certainly a short-term gain for the major league team. The 2nd round pick might provide better long-term help to the team, or he might be a bust.

Since the Phils seem to be more focused on retooling, they'd probably rather have the 2nd round pick. Then again, a FA signing could potentially put more butts in the seats at CBP next season, and money always is a consideration.

There is no right or wrong here. Just things to consider.

 

[bmw199]

The Phils have to be somewhat careful here. If the season ended today, they'd have the #1 pick in each round of next year's MLB draft. If they sign a FA that had turned down a qualifying offer from their former team, the Phils would lose their pick in the 2nd round. (For most teams, they'd lose their pick in the 1st round for signing such a FA, but the first 10 picks are protected from the FA penalty.)

The Phils' farm system was the foundation of their great run over the past decade. However, between finishing high each year during the run (and thus having draft picks near the end of each round), their signing FAs and thus losing their 1st round pick, or their trading some of their draft picks, their farm system was pretty thin when their stars started getting injured or playing at a level below their peak.

A FA who rejected a qualifying offer to sign with the Phils is far more likely to provide immediate help to the MLB club than the #1 pick in the 2nd round. It's certainly a short-term gain for the major league team. The 2nd round pick might provide better long-term help to the team, or he might be a bust.

Since the Phils seem to be more focused on retooling, they'd probably rather have the 2nd round pick. Then again, a FA signing could potentially put more butts in the seats at CBP next season, and money always is a consideration.

There is no right or wrong here. Just things to consider.

The new rules block mid season rentals from requiring a pick be given up. So they could go after some of those FAs.

 

[LundyPSU]

This is a good trade for the Phils. A couple of guys with significant upside and a few others that could be solid pieces to the backend of the rotation or bullpen. Hamels is an excellent pitcher, but probably a notch below the elite #1's across baseball. But he is still a very good #1. Of course, the only way to evaluate deals is a few years from now.

 

[dawgduice]

Now they have $130 mill or so to spend in free agency if they want. Crap, they could sign Grienke and Zimmerman and still sign another slugger like Chris Davis or someone like that. They're going to buy out both Utley and Lee

The "prospects" are OK nothing more. I believe the Phils will BUY at lest two mid level younger free agents this year. Next year they will give a full season to the younger guys to see what they have and if all goes well (decent) then after the season SPEND even more to buy additional players. So, in short, the Phils will be truly competitive the year after next ;-) This is very realistic plan.

 

[drunkandproud]

Horrible deal because you can't ignore the money aspect. The Rangers acquired Hamels and between the cash the Phillies sent in the deal and the cash relief in Harrison's contract, it is costing the Rangers roughly $13m a year for Hamels. Consider what Scherzer got and then consider what Price will get in FA. So, the Rangers acquired a Pitcher who has been very durable over his career for roughly half what top line starters get on the market. And the Rangers arguably kept EVERYONE they really wanted to keep. The OF'er has tools but needs a TON of development, the C's stock has fallen and the P (Thompson) basically grades out as a #3. You got quantity and certainly not quality in this deal. That is about it. They should have offered Giles if that helped to get 1 of the other prospects thrown in. The Phillies blinked because of the fear they had being the last team to deal, knowing the attention probably would turn to Price. Curious now to see what Detroit extracts for Price.

 

[cjrugger]

Well, sounds like the Tigers got more for 2 months of David Price than the Phillies got

 

[Cletus11]

Horrible deal because you can't ignore the money aspect. The Rangers acquired Hamels and between the cash the Phillies sent in the deal and the cash relief in Harrison's contract, it is costing the Rangers roughly $13m a year for Hamels. Consider what Scherzer got and then consider what Price will get in FA. So, the Rangers acquired a Pitcher who has been very durable over his career for roughly half what top line starters get on the market. And the Rangers arguably kept EVERYONE they really wanted to keep. The OF'er has tools but needs a TON of development, the C's stock has fallen and the P (Thompson) basically grades out as a #3. You got quantity and certainly not quality in this deal. That is about it. They should have offered Giles if that helped to get 1 of the other prospects thrown in. The Phillies blinked because of the fear they had being the last team to deal, knowing the attention probably would turn to Price. Curious now to see what Detroit extracts for Price.

I agree it is sort of amazing that Hamels who is a 1A type pitcher with legit post season experience on a quality deal with multiple years cannot even get the #1 prospect out of an organization. But I think that goes to show how far the GM's of MLB have come in valuing the younger guys. Gone are the days of the Cashman and the Yankees giving up elite prospects for a rent a player for 2 months. I think the Phils had to get rid of Hamels. Need a fresh start and to build up a not so good farm system. I'd really love to see Howard be traded even if Phils have to eat 50%+ of his contract.

 

[LundyPSU]

I think San Diego trying to sell controllable pitching, definitely hurt the Phils return. Phils wanted and needed more than one player/prospect. As we heard, it seemed none of the elite (Gallo, Seager, Urias,) prospects were in play. Alfaro and Williams definitely have high ceilings. Tigers just got Norris, which is great for them. Not sure that the Blue Jays were interested in taking Hamels salary over the next few years given the Tulo deal.

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

Well, sounds like the Tigers got more for 2 months of David Price than the Phillies got

They got one good prospect. The Phillies got 3/5 best prospects from one of the strongest farms in baseball plus a few other guys with big league potential and a wildcard in Harrison. What are you talking about? All 5 of the prospects will crack the Phillies top 20. Keith Law said that this move moves the Phils into the top 10 strongest farms in baseball. Getting 3 top 100 prospects nowadays is great value.

Funny that if you go read the comments of Rangers fans most of them are extremely angry. They basically feel that this gutted the core of a very deep system.

 

[cjrugger]

They got one good prospect. The Phillies got 3/5 best prospects from one of the strongest farms in baseball plus a few other guys with big league potential and a wildcard in Harrison. What are you talking about? All 5 of the prospects will crack the Phillies top 20. Keith Law said that this move moves the Phils into the top 10 strongest farms in baseball. Getting 3 top 100 prospects nowadays is great value.

Funny that if you go read the comments of Rangers fans most of them are extremely angry. They basically feel that this gutted the core of a very deep system.

Well I said that when the Tiger were supposed to be getting Anthony Alford as well as Norris. Doesn't look as great with the two pitchers. But calling Norris a 'good' prospect while calling the Rangers one of the best farm systems is wrong. Baseball America ranked the Rangers as the #11 farm system before the year, Jays #10. Norris was their #18 prospect overall

Harrison is a wild card? More like a 35M liability, but hey, keep those rose colored glasses on

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

I agree that Alford would have made the deal look a lot different but it's still not what the Phillies received.

Norris has pitched minor league ball for four years and has an ERA over 4. He is 3-10(yeah wins losses mean little but...) with a 4.27 ERA this year. If that was the deal the Phillies would have received for Hamels my rose colored glassed would have been smashed repeatedly with a bat.

People keep acting like money means anything to the Phillies. It might have back in the day when they basically salary dumped Lee to the Mariners for nothing. No way that would happen now. They had to absorb that terrible contract to get them to budge. And it's not impossible that Harrison pitches well enough to possibly move him again.

 

[drunkandproud]

I agree that Alford would have made the deal look a lot different but it's still not what the Phillies received.

Norris has pitched minor league ball for four years and has an ERA over 4. He is 3-10(yeah wins losses mean little but...) with a 4.27 ERA this year. If that was the deal the Phillies would have received for Hamels my rose colored glassed would have been smashed repeatedly with a bat.

People keep acting like money means anything to the Phillies. It might have back in the day when they basically salary dumped Lee to the Mariners for nothing. No way that would happen now. They had to absorb that terrible contract to get them to budge. And it's not impossible that Harrison pitches well enough to possibly move him again.

The money means EVERYTHING. That is the only thing that really matters in deals as the hard cap creates the ceiling for just about every team. Every dollar that you get absorbed allows you to operate further away from the cap. So, how would you have felt if the Rangers kept Harrison and got the Phillies to throw in $40 million or whatever the final # is for Hamels. That is basically what they did. The Phillies allowed the Rangers to get an elite pitcher for what I think is $13.5m a year for 4 years. That is a bargain for what Price is going to command in six months.

I would be shocked if Harrison pitches. I guess the Phillies figured if they were going to have to throw in $40 million, then they might as well take a chance on a player as opposed to just flushing the green.

This was probably as good as they were going to get and it is not a total disaster. And people should stop with the 1A stuff about Hamels. If you don't think Hamels is elite, you are watching a different game. He has been durable since he was brought up, does not completely rely on velocity as his change is ++ and his curve should be thrown more. His velocity is actually better now than it was early in his career so he looks like he should hold up and be productive over the contract term. Plus, the guy is a competitor. Listen to what opposing players and his teammates say rather than message board drivel. I have watched the Phillies for going on 45 years. He is the best they have developed . Within their system, you go Roberts, Fergie Jenkins, and him since the 50's. These guys don't grow on trees.

 

[kgilbert78]

The money means EVERYTHING. That is the only thing that really matters in deals as the hard cap creates the ceiling for just about every team. Every dollar that you get absorbed allows you to operate further away from the cap. So, how would you have felt if the Rangers kept Harrison and got the Phillies to throw in $40 million or whatever the final # is for Hamels. That is basically what they did. The Phillies allowed the Rangers to get an elite pitcher for what I think is $13.5m a year for 4 years. That is a bargain for what Price is going to command in six months.

I would be shocked if Harrison pitches. I guess the Phillies figured if they were going to have to throw in $40 million, then they might as well take a chance on a player as opposed to just flushing the green.

This was probably as good as they were going to get and it is not a total disaster. And people should stop with the 1A stuff about Hamels. If you don't think Hamels is elite, you are watching a different game. He has been durable since he was brought up, does not completely rely on velocity as his change is ++ and his curve should be thrown more. His velocity is actually better now than it was early in his career so he looks like he should hold up and be productive over the contract term. Plus, the guy is a competitor. Listen to what opposing players and his teammates say rather than message board drivel. I have watched the Phillies for going on 45 years. He is the best they have developed . Within their system, you go Roberts, Fergie Jenkins, and him since the 50's. These guys don't grow on trees.

I'd agree, but you also have to give a nod to Chris Short and Rick Wise as being pretty decent...

 

[bmw199]

I agree that Alford would have made the deal look a lot different but it's still not what the Phillies received.

Norris has pitched minor league ball for four years and has an ERA over 4. He is 3-10(yeah wins losses mean little but...) with a 4.27 ERA this year. If that was the deal the Phillies would have received for Hamels my rose colored glassed would have been smashed repeatedly with a bat.

People keep acting like money means anything to the Phillies. It might have back in the day when they basically salary dumped Lee to the Mariners for nothing. No way that would happen now. They had to absorb that terrible contract to get them to budge. And it's not impossible that Harrison pitches well enough to possibly move him again.

Obrien said on CSN that it's clear that money means nothing now to the Phils. They are loaded money wise moving forward and are going to spend a lot. I wouldnt be surprised to see them bust the luxury tax barrier in 2017 or 2018.

 

[bmw199]

The money means EVERYTHING. That is the only thing that really matters in deals as the hard cap creates the ceiling for just about every team. Every dollar that you get absorbed allows you to operate further away from the cap. So, how would you have felt if the Rangers kept Harrison and got the Phillies to throw in $40 million or whatever the final # is for Hamels. That is basically what they did. The Phillies allowed the Rangers to get an elite pitcher for what I think is $13.5m a year for 4 years. That is a bargain for what Price is going to command in six months.

I would be shocked if Harrison pitches. I guess the Phillies figured if they were going to have to throw in $40 million, then they might as well take a chance on a player as opposed to just flushing the green.

This was probably as good as they were going to get and it is not a total disaster. And people should stop with the 1A stuff about Hamels. If you don't think Hamels is elite, you are watching a different game. He has been durable since he was brought up, does not completely rely on velocity as his change is ++ and his curve should be thrown more. His velocity is actually better now than it was early in his career so he looks like he should hold up and be productive over the contract term. Plus, the guy is a competitor. Listen to what opposing players and his teammates say rather than message board drivel. I have watched the Phillies for going on 45 years. He is the best they have developed . Within their system, you go Roberts, Fergie Jenkins, and him since the 50's. These guys don't grow on trees.

There is no hard cap in baseball only a luxury tax.

 

[drunkandproud]

I meant lux tax as a hard cap. Phillies will NEVER go over that unles Middleton represents a change in view.

 

[Victor E. Bell]

I don't know a lot about the talent in the minors, the viability of some of the likely FAs, or the trade value of stars on other teams. What I do know is that when the Phillies were steamin' hot they banged the place out for 257 straight games. I have to believe the ownership is aware of this as well.....and I know the gate is not the whole story but winning cures all ills

 

[ChandlerPearce]

Yes this is a fantastic trade ! I bet these guys might even last as long as the windfall of talent Ruby received in the infamous Cliff Lee trade! WOW.....we got a guy hitting .255, a pitcher that is 3-6, sure future HOFers. Has RA been fired yet?

 

[Chris92]

Why did Amaro trade for two injured players? Because the Rangers felt guilty about packaging the third one in the deal.