Hackenberg comment

[psulongago]

"got the talent to be special. If Penn State's coaching staff can put a plan around him like Bill O'Brien did in 2013,"

Saw a 2106 mock NFL Draft, had Hackenberg chosen 5th and first QB with the highlighted quote.

 

[dwiz]

"
Saw a 2106 mock NFL Draft, had Hackenberg chosen 5th and first QB with the highlighted quote.

That's still pretty good for being 108 years old

 

[lionlurker]

Safe to say that BOB was/is an exceptional offensive coach, and we don't have someone like him right now.

 

[bjf1984]

Safe to say that BOB was/is an exceptional offensive coach, and we don't have someone like him right now.

Would you rather have BOB and last year's offensive line........or a "middle-of-the-road" offensive line and any other offensive co-ordinator?

I really like BOB's offensive philosophies, and I think he is a top-tier offensive coach......but I would take "option 2" in a heartbeat.

There just was no way to polish the offensive line situation last year.....and it won't be much better this year.
Walsh, O'Brien......whomever..........was not going to be able to run a fully functioning offense with last year's personnel/experience/depth.

Time will tell just how good the current offensive staff is.....and I wouldn't feel comfortable at all in evaluating them one way or another until at least 2017 (assuming the staff stays together that long).

 

[lionlurker]

Look, BOB got a middling NFL team to play over .500 last year. It's not a stretch to say that he's a damned good coach, and his offensive record that he arrived here with was also exceptional. He's an NFL head coach for a reason. Comparing him to Donovan is no contest, and everybody knows it.

Our line was bad, but I am guessing that BOB's bandaids would have been better last year than Donovan's bandaids. That is a reasonable guess.

The question is, can this staff get Hackenburg back to where he was as a freshman?

 

[Brazillm10]

"got the talent to be special. If Penn State's coaching staff can put a plan around him like Bill O'Brien did in 2013,"

Saw a 2106 mock NFL Draft, had Hackenberg chosen 5th and first QB with the highlighted quote.

That quote is spot on. We really only saw about 60% of the playbook last season due to the O line issues and the overall inexperience of the squad. The result was a very vanilla attack that was easy to scout and game plan against. This year I hope to see Hack running a more dynamic attack with a stronger ground game and less route-running errors by the receivers. Hack also needs to be more aware of the rush this season and be willing to hit checkdowns or throw it into the stands instead of forcing passes into trouble or taking the big sack.

 

[lein]

Would you rather have BOB and last year's offensive line........or a "middle-of-the-road" offensive line and any other offensive co-ordinator?

I really like BOB's offensive philosophies, and I think he is a top-tier offensive coach......but I would take "option 2" in a heartbeat.

There just was no way to polish the offensive line situation last year.....and it won't be much better this year.
Walsh, O'Brien......whomever..........was not going to be able to run a fully functioning offense with last year's personnel/experience/depth.

Time will tell just how good the current offensive staff is.....and I wouldn't feel comfortable at all in evaluating them one way or another until at least 2017 (assuming the staff stays together that long).

If BOB stays, would we still have Butler calling the shots on defense?

 

[sss]

BOB's offense wasn't as impressive his 2nd year here. He had some good games (Wisky eg) but also some clunkers (Indiana) and some mediocre ones (Nebraska). And Hack had ARob to bail him out of several games by simply outjumping and outmuscling DBS on the "hail marys" thrown up. Plus he did pick Butler to run his D, which was an awful miscalculation. I want to see how BOB fairs over several seasons before he I call him a genius.

 

[lionlurker]

Fair enough. I want to say the same about Donovan.

 

[royboy]

Can we talk about Hack here instead of Franklin vs BOB?
I do see Hack as a special talent, and a likely high 1st rounder when he comes out if things go well. He can make some great throws and has already shown the ability to produce in the clutch. Wouldn't be shocked to see him come out for the 2016 draft, but I'm guessing he finishes his 4th year at PSU.

 

[lionlurker]

If he finishes out year #4, that almost guarantees that year #3 will be a disappointment.

 

[bjf1984]

Can we talk about Hack here instead of Franklin vs BOB?
I do see Hack as a special talent, and a likely high 1st rounder when he comes out if things go well. He can make some great throws and has already shown the ability to produce in the clutch. Wouldn't be shocked to see him come out for the 2016 draft, but I'm guessing he finishes his 4th year at PSU.

If you're gonna' talk about Hackenberg (and his progress and expectations for 2015) you gotta' do so in the context of what he has been dealing with.

I've said from the get-go that I really like BOB as an offensive coach, and I surely wouldn't even think of comparing Donovan to O'Brien. But it does everyone a disservice to compare apples to oranges.

Here are some absolute data points to keep in mind.....not conjecture or opinion:



Median numbers (the numbers that 1/2 are above, 1/2 are below):

2013 Offense per Game

40 rushes for 193 yards

2014 Offense per Game:

35 rushes for 57 yards


Should the 2014 staff have run the ball more? With that level of "productivity"?


Therefore:

of the 12 games in 2013, PSU threw the ball more than rushed the ball TWICE.
of the 12 games in 2014, PSU threw the ball more than rushed the ball NINE TIMES (every game except Temple, UMass, and Illinois)

Even in the games PSU lost in 2013, they averaged 37 rushes for 148 yards.
In the games PSU lost in 2014, they averaged 33 rushes for 60 yards.


Is it reasonable for any offense to have success with that level of futility running the ball?

If you go back and watch the tapes, aside from taking more carries from Belton (and giving them to Lynch....of course, keeping in mind that even in 2013 Belton was getting a lot of carries) I can't see a single thing that ANY coaching staff could have done to dramatically change that running game situation.

The basic run plays were the same from year to year (as they are for most teams)....and we couldn't run a simple zone play without there - typically - being 2 or 3 defenders beating their guys up front.

When you have that, your options are "limited" (as in damn near zero).

Opinion time: Until the guys up front either mature - or more talented guys get in there - it ain't gonna' matter if Johnny Unitas or Matt Senneca or PeeWee Herman are back there under center.

 

[WPB_lion]

Safe to say that BOB was/is an exceptional offensive coach, and we don't have someone like him right now.

There is no question that BOB is a great offensive coach and he deserves credit. However, it is much "safer" to say that the offensive personell on the 2013 squad was significantly better than offensive personell on the 2014 squad. IMO, it is unfair to the current coaching staff to write them off based on the performance of an offense that was severely depleted due to the sanctions.

 

[NittanyAmerica]

I'd rather have Franklin then BO'B.

N i t t a n y A m e r i c a

 

[Columbus_Lion]

Hack is going to be the first BigTen QB selected in the first round since Kerry Collins.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Look, BOB got a middling NFL team to play over .500 last year. It's not a stretch to say that he's a damned good coach, and his offensive record that he arrived here with was also exceptional. He's an NFL head coach for a reason. Comparing him to Donovan is no contest, and everybody knows it.

Our line was bad, but I am guessing that BOB's bandaids would have been better last year than Donovan's bandaids. That is a reasonable guess.

The question is, can this staff get Hackenburg back to where he was as a freshman?

The Texans won the AFC South in 2011 and 2012; they've been pretty good recently but have had QB issues. I wouldn't exactly call them 'middling'; just poorly coached (and issues at most important position on team).

 

[bxle]

I like the talent that CJF is recruiting on both sides of the ball. And lots of team speed.

It should be fun to watch!

 

[BarryPSU]

Having worked with him, does BOB go after Hack in next years draft?

 

[GulfCoastLion]

If BOB stays, would we still have Butler calling the shots on defense?

Well said. There will be trade offs with any new coaching staff replacing another. No question Bill O'Brien is a terrific coach and the perfect man during the extremely challenging sanctions and transition from JoePa. I think its safe to say that Franklin is likely the better recruiter (O'Brien may have been good recruiting post-sanctions too, but CJF is one of the best in all of college football IMO) and there's no doubt the defensive coaching is significantly better with the current staff. Sounds similar to our strengths back in Joe's best days, where he recruited as well as anybody and the team was built on great defenses, with the talent to be effective on offense too, even if the schemes and Playbook were somewhat conservative and predictable. Donovan doesn't need to get too fancy with the offense, assuming the recruiting continues to bring in the talented prospects we've been getting. If we develop the OLine and execute effectively, our offense will be good enough.

 

[bjf1984]

Well said. There will be trade offs with any new coaching staff replacing another. No question Bill O'Brien is a terrific coach and the perfect man during the extremely challenging sanctions and transition from JoePa. I think its safe to say that Franklin is likely the better recruiter (O'Brien may have been good recruiting post-sanctions too, but CJF is one of the best in all of college football IMO) and there's no doubt the defensive coaching is significantly better with the current staff. Sounds similar to our strengths back in Joe's best days, where he recruited as well as anybody and the team was built on great defenses, with the talent to be effective on offense too, even if the schemes and Playbook were somewhat conservative and predictable. Donovan doesn't need to get too fancy with the offense, assuming the recruiting continues to bring in the talented prospects we've been getting. If we develop the OLine and execute effectively, our offense will be good enough.

GCL - I think you hit on a very salient point:

Comparing the CJF staff's offensive coaching to the work by BOB and staff on that side of the ball
would be
As illogical as comparing the CJF staff's recruiting to the BOB staff's recruiting

They were both operating under such completely FUBAR situations (BOB's wrt the Consent Decree bullshit as it relates to recruiting, and CJF's wrt the offensive line)


All-in-All, I'd take the CJF staff.....but that's just one man's opinion. You will NEVER be able to fairly compare the staffs....since they operated under such completely different circumstances.

 

[zwick99]

Safe to say that BOB was/is an exceptional offensive coach, and we don't have someone like him right now.

Overrated. THe offense could not buy a third down conversion with OB/Hack. OB also hired Butler who was a horrible DC and the special teams was horrible.

 

[lionlurker]

No argument on the defensive side of the ball. However, Hack was a true freshman that year. Remember that.

 

[zwick99]

"got the talent to be special. If Penn State's coaching staff can put a plan around him like Bill O'Brien did in 2013,"

Saw a 2106 mock NFL Draft, had Hackenberg chosen 5th and first QB with the highlighted quote.

When is OB going to put a plan around the Houston TExans QB? Maybe this season the Texans won't have to rely on JJ Watt scoring defensive TDs to help them win.

 

[zwick99]

I will take Franklin over OB any day.

Notice how Franklin does not call Dave Jones and leak stories every other week that he wants out at PSU?

 

[zwick99]

I will take Franklin over OB any day.

Notice how Franklin does not call Dave Jones and leak stories every other week that he wants out at PSU?

By the end of this season Obrien will be crying about the Bum Phillips Bots in Houston.

 

[eVizions]

I will take Franklin over OB any day.

Notice how Franklin does not call Dave Jones and leak stories every other week that he wants out at PSU?

Wait, so you think that BOB was calling Jones - weekly - and telling him to report that he wanted out???

 

[lionlurker]

I will take Franklin over OB any day.

Notice how Franklin does not call Dave Jones and leak stories every other week that he wants out at PSU?

C'mon. You really aren't that stupid, are you?

 

[NJLions]

So glad we have Franklin - Good riddance Billy Bob.

 

[lionroar88]

Hmmm lets see...

Under Butler our defense in 2013 was one of the worst in PSU history. With basically the same players Donovan took that same group and they were one of the best in 2014.

Under O'Brien in 2012, 2013 he chose to basically ignore OL recruiting, resulting in one of the thinnest OL pools we have ever seen at PSU, the result in 2014 - 2 DL converted to OL, 2 OL starters that hadn't started a game, 1 returning OL starter would played injured most of the season, and 1 returning OL who didn't start till week 10. Best blocking RB goes down on the first play of the season... The result was under 40% of the offensive playbook was used (Franklin has said this on more than one occasion).

The OL is far beyond where they were at this time last season. The OL will be deeper and more experienced (and have players who actually played the position within the past year)... no reason to not see more than minor improvement over last season. This is why I honestly see us going 10 - 2 and winning the bowl game. We will be very close to having a shot at The BIG championship as well as The MNC, will finish in the Top 10. Hackenberg decides to return for his senior year to lead PSU to The MNC...

 

[broey]

Fair enough. We have to give credit to BOB for what he did when he was here. Although, to be fair, BOB did come in with the cupboard full. CJF & Donavan came in with the cupboard pretty empty. So, just as we have to say Billy did a great job at PSU, it would be unfair to judge CJF, or more particulary Donovan, based on last year. I would expect improvement this year from the offense.

 

[zwick99]

Wait, so you think that BOB was calling Jones - weekly - and telling him to report that he wanted out???

I don't know how often he called him but it was definitely Obrien who was the unnamed source. WHo do you think was telling Jones that OB wanted out? Bob pretty much confirmed it at the end.

 

[zwick99]

Hmmm lets see...

Under Butler our defense in 2013 was one of the worst in PSU history. With basically the same players Donovan took that same group and they were one of the best in 2014.

Under O'Brien in 2012, 2013 he chose to basically ignore OL recruiting, resulting in one of the thinnest OL pools we have ever seen at PSU, the result in 2014 - 2 DL converted to OL, 2 OL starters that hadn't started a game, 1 returning OL starter would played injured most of the season, and 1 returning OL who didn't start till week 10. Best blocking RB goes down on the first play of the season... The result was under 40% of the offensive playbook was used (Franklin has said this on more than one occasion).

The OL is far beyond where they were at this time last season. The OL will be deeper and more experienced (and have players who actually played the position within the past year)... no reason to not see more than minor improvement over last season. This is why I honestly see us going 10 - 2 and winning the bowl game. We will be very close to having a shot at The BIG championship as well as The MNC, will finish in the Top 10. Hackenberg decides to return for his senior year to lead PSU to The MNC...

We are not going 10-2. The new players are still green. They are still freshman and RS freshman. Many of them will not even play this year. . The junior and senior classes were decimated by sanctions.

 

[lionroar88]

We are not going 10-2. The new players are still green. They are still freshman and RS freshman. Many of them will not even play this year. . The junior and senior classes were decimated by sanctions.

I see only tO$U and MSU as 'certain losses', no other teams on our schedule would I consider as such. A few are toss-ups, but they are against teams that beat us last year and this team will be hungry to avenge those losses.

We don't have a lot from last year that we lost, so not sure where you get the 'The new players are still green'? All of the skill positions will be more experienced, and the OLine will be improved. Lynch will be starting at RB, and from reports the younger guys are pushing him (which can only mean good things). DLine will be anchored by 2 of the best DTs in College Football, the ends are going to be impressive, the LB corp will lose Hull but will be deeper with the addition of young blood, and the secondary didn't lose any depth....

 

[psuro]

Noticed that in each of Hack's first three seasons, PSU started the season on the road (@ Syracuse in the Meadowlands, @UCF in Dublin and @ Temple in Philly).

If he does leave after this season, he could be the only PSU QB to start each season on the road.

It's not really very important, but I am hoping some media intern picks up on this post and I can hear one of the knuckleheads from BTN (DiNardo) repeat it like he just discovered this little tidbit.

 

[Talpsu]

Don't forget we had our own OL players blocking our own players last year. BOB won with a full cupboard of Joes players and Franklin did a hell of a job with the scraps BOB left behind.

 

[bdgan]

I see only tO$U and MSU as 'certain losses', no other teams on our schedule would I consider as such. A few are toss-ups, but they are against teams that beat us last year and this team will be hungry to avenge those losses.

We don't have a lot from last year that we lost, so not sure where you get the 'The new players are still green'? All of the skill positions will be more experienced, and the OLine will be improved. Lynch will be starting at RB, and from reports the younger guys are pushing him (which can only mean good things). DLine will be anchored by 2 of the best DTs in College Football, the ends are going to be impressive, the LB corp will lose Hull but will be deeper with the addition of young blood, and the secondary didn't lose any depth....

You're quite the optimist. You say we didn't lose much from last year but I disagree. Hull. Barnes, Olaniyan, Ficken, and D. Smith are pretty big losses.

Anything less than 8 wins would be disappointing. 9 would be fantastic.

 

[lionroar88]

we are loaded at DE, there were 5 or 6? that played quite regularly last season. I already mentioned Hull, however the rest of the LB corps it deep and has quite a bit of experience. Losing Hull's leadership and ability to plug the middle are going to be tough to replace, but I think the staff is up to the task. Ficken could be a tough loss if we don't find a quality kicker.

Been through the whole OL discussion... not doing it again. If you haven't paid attention to Franklin not much more I can say.

 

[bdgan]

we are loaded at DE, there were 5 or 6? that played quite regularly last season. I already mentioned Hull, however the rest of the LB corps it deep and has quite a bit of experience. Losing Hull's leadership and ability to plug the middle are going to be tough to replace, but I think the staff is up to the task. Ficken could be a tough loss if we don't find a quality kicker.

Been through the whole OL discussion... not doing it again. If you haven't paid attention to Franklin not much more I can say.

I sure hope you're right but I'm calling it as I see it.

• The OL stunk even with Smith (and part year Dieff). We have more bodies this year but most aren't highly rated and / or didn't show a lot last year. I expect the OL to be slightly better than last year but not materially. I hope I'm wrong. It will be interesting to see how Reihner & Palmer play.
  
• I have no idea how you can say we are "loaded" at DE. Sickels is the only 4* recruit and I think Nassib was a walk-on. Schwan was a 2* recruit while Brown & Cothran were 3*. That doesn't match up very well on paper vs. teams like OSU, MSU, & Mich. I hope a couple of these kids turn out to be stars but I'm not about to say we're loaded until I see them play.

 

[lionroar88]

A lot of things contributed to the poor OL play last year:
1. Their most experienced member started the year injured and didn't play till week 9?
2. Their second most experienced member played nearly the entire year with nagging minor injuries
3. They played with 2 converted DL, who hadn't played OL in over a year, and in over 2 years
4. They played together as a unit for exactly 2 months prior to the UCF game
5. Our best blocking RB went down on the first play of the UCF game and never returned <---- this played a HUGE role all over the Offense last year
6. We were breaking in a nearly entirely new WR corps - they were good, but they missed a lot of routes and weren't able to break open as quickly as the group from 2013 (OL needed to provide more time, which due to #4 and #5 they were unable to do)

If you think #4 isn't important, keep in mind that the team also did not go full out during all practices due to a lack of depth. This hurts big time when it comes to game play. The OL never really gelled till after these season due to the additional practices, and the fact that they were able to practice fully (hitting, tackling, etc). The more an OL plays together - both in practice and game time, the better the unit will be. They learn each other's strengths and weaknesses and they learn to compensate (help each other out). Also, the OL needed to get bigger and stronger - which they have done between last season and this season. The BW game is a poor example of their abilities because, again, they were bringing in three new players to evaluate their potential. Of those three, one was an early enrollee, one was a JUCO transfer, and was a Grad Transfer... and the DL they were playing against is one of the best in country. Jenkins and Palmer have both put on weight, and I would venture have been hitting the weight room pretty hard to get stronger both in upper body, and developing a stronger base. The entire OL is pushing each other, and that only translates into better performance - as long as they stay healthy.

 

[Judge Smails]

I don't know how often he called him but it was definitely Obrien who was the unnamed source. WHo do you think was telling Jones that OB wanted out? Bob pretty much confirmed it at the end.

What does it say about O'Brien that he confided, AT ALL, to that troll David Jones? Any intelligent head coach at Penn State wouldn't tell Jones what he had for breakfast that morning.