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FC/OT: Game of Thrones S5E2 - *SPOILERS*

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***SPOILERS***

After last week's premiere which set up the pieces for our *main* protagonists (Cersei, Jon Snow, Littlefinger, Stannis, Tyrion, Daenaerys) this week we're treated to the addition of Arya's arrival in Braavos (have only been waiting three years for this!), our first look at Dorne and it's lovely water gardens, and a great chance encounter between Brienne and Littlefinger. Let's see where we are....:

Cersei and Jaime in King's Landing

Cersei gets a pretty serious threat from Dorne by way of a sinister looking snake head holding her daughter's necklace. She's super worried that they'll retaliate for the death of Prince Oberyn by killing her one and only daughter. Jaime, having mostly failed at everything since taking down Ned Stark, decides he's going to make things right with his family and Cersei by taking a covert mission to Dorne to rescue her. Oh, and he's bringing Bronn with him. I seriously cannot wait to see how this goes!

Meanwhile, Cersei once again shows off her ruling skills by deftly handling everyone (save her uncle Kevan) at her small council meeting. Quite the contrast to Daenaerys who seems to be way out of her element in Mereen....

Daenaerys in Mereen

Without her dragons, Daenaerys is a bit neutered and she sort of knows it. She has power now, but unlike Cersei, doesn't really know what to do with it. She takes some pretty good advice from Ser Selmy when one of her inner council decides to take matters into his own hands, but then sort of blows things by publicly executing the guy in front of her people. You get the sense she's really only around to wait for Tyrion and Varys to show up (and she could seriously use their council) and to provide backdrop for when her impressive dragons show up, as Drogon did last night.

Jon Snow at The Wall

This has always been my least favorite storyline, but I enjoyed it a lot last night. Jon turns down Stannis's offer to make him the LEGIT Warden of the North, as Jon Stark no less, so he can be a man of his word and sulk around Castle Black as a member of the night's watch. Things take a turn for the very interesting when he's elected the new Lord Commander. You can see where this story is going though - Stannis needs the north and needs someone to give it to him. In his way is Roose Bolton and Co. Will Stannis make it to Winterfell with his army before Littlefinger and Sansa do? Also, Gilly is learning to read! Yay! 'I know 's'...'.

Littlefinger and Sansa En Route

Previews for next week's episode suggest Littlefinger's plan is to mount an attack on Winterfell and House Bolton and restore Sansa as proper Ward of the North and Winterfell. It's pretty well known that the Northerners are still loyal to the Stark's, and Sansa could rally them (which would in turn help strengthen Littlefinger's army). I think this differs from the book as Sansa and Littlefinger never went on this journey, correct?

Arya at The House of Black and White

My favorite character and story line FINALLY lives up to it's promise at the end of Season Two when Faceless Assassin Jaqen H'ghar gave Arya his coin and told her to seek him out if she ever felt the need. Well, Arya shows up and after a bit of Fight Club-esque hazing (and a near fight with some locals), she's offered entrance into the mysterious House of Black and White. Oh, and J'quen mysteriously reveals himself to her once again and they have a great exchange. She asks why he said Jaqen H'ghar wasn't there, and he says, 'Because there is no Jaqen H'ghar. I am no one. And that is what we will teach the girl to become.'

Varys and Tyrion En Route

Not much going on here - Varys and Tyrion are making their way to Mereen and Daenaerys, and Tyrion is trying to drink himself to death on the way. He and Varys have some funny/clever exchanges, my favorite being:

Varys: Cersei is offering a handsome reward for your head on a platter.

Tyrion: She should have offered her c***; the best part of her body for the best part of mine.

Anyway, these two are golden when on screen and I hope they get to Mereen sooner rather than later.

Dorne

We get our first look at Dorne and it's spectacular. We also meet Prince Oberyn's gout-affected brother, the king, Doran. He's being pestered by Oberyn's lady love to torture and kill Myrcella Lannister as payback for what happened to Oberyn. She says the people of Dorne would agree. He says they do not do that to children in Dorne, and that it's a good thing the people of Dorne aren't the ones making the decision. We also hear that Oberyn's deadly daughters, the Sand Snakes, support the move, but we're not introduced just yet.

Anyway, great second episode and lots more to dig into. I think we're going to start to see a lot of things differ from the books too, and I'm wondering how book readers will react to that. What did everyone think? Is this not the best show on TV or what??

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Originally posted by Midnighter:

Littlefinger and Sansa En Route
Previews for next week's episode suggest Littlefinger's plan is to mount an attack on Winterfell and House Bolton and restore Sansa as proper Ward of the North and Winterfell. It's pretty well known that the Northerners are still loyal to the Stark's, and Sansa could rally them (which would in turn help strengthen Littlefinger's army). I think this differs from the book as Sansa and Littlefinger never went on this journey, correct?
This is entirely new territory for me. The Sansa/Littlefinger story (in the books) ended in The Eyrie with Littlefinger pledging to marry Sansa off and make an alliance beneficial to her. This must be one of the new storylines that Martin helped write that hasn't taken place in the books yet.

Still no word when Brienne gets to meet Lady Stoneheart.
 
Originally posted by Midnighter:

I'm interested to see how they take things this year - you've got a god awful Book 4 to pick from and a really good Book 5 to pick from as well. Book 4 is god awful slow, but it has 3 or 4 really, really important spoilers, which I won't get into. Lots of good stuff in Book 5 - mostly around Esteros and Daenaerys.

Cersei and Jaime in King's Landing
I wouldn't be suprised if Lena Headey gets a lot of screen time this season. She had to film a particularly tough scene this year, which will likely come near the end.

Daenaerys in Mereen
It ain't easy being Queen. Don't know if the last little cliffhanger bit of Book 5 will come this season or next...

Jon Snow at The Wall
Hopefully this will start to become one of your more favorite storylines going forward. I'd say there will be 3 new storylines that now split off from here - Sam/Gilly's Wild Journey, Stannis best version of Napolean's invasion of Russia and the Troubles of Jon Snow.

Littlefinger and Sansa En Route
I'm as interested to see where this goes. Ditto for Brienne's storyline.

Arya at The House of Black and White
This will be a slow storyline (book 4 stuff I believe) with a big payoff. Arya can't help but be one of everyone's favorite character. If you like the part where Mr. Miyagi trained Daniel-san, you might like this one - but trust me, but Episode 10, you'll see the badass that Arya has become. But not how you might think...

Varys and Tyrion En Route
I can't remember Varys going on this trip, but a good deal of Book 5 deals with this. You know what a long road trip needs? More colorful characters who get introduced along the way,

Dorne
Here's another long, boring storyline that takes up Big Chunks of Book 4 but that has a nice, key important reveal at the end.
If I remember slogging through the 2000 pages of Books 4 and 5, I'm pretty sure thinking it could have all been done in 500 pages. But in the end, its worth it, because you start to see Martin starting to weave all of the different storylines together towards a potential single path. I'm still waiting to see where the 4 or 5 storylines that just ended with some pretty big cliffhangers are going to go next!!!
 
Originally posted by Midnighter:


Anyway, great second episode and lots more to dig into. I think we're going to start to see a lot of things differ from the books too, and I'm wondering how book readers will react to that. What did everyone think? Is this not the best show on TV or what??
It's certainly the show I look forward to the most. Each episode could run 5 hours and I'd never be bored watching it. I'm a little concerned about what becomes of the show as it leaves the books, but I won't get too worried unless it actually messes up. Martin has been giving indications there may be a little friction between him and the HBO writers, and I have a feeling he purposely takes the books a different direction just so he doesn't have to go along with any decisions the HBO writers make.

As an example, he recently talked about a big event he's considering in the next book that would change things dramatically, and he notes the TV show wouldn't be able to do it, because of decisions the TV show has already made about how it's told the story.
 
Originally posted by jjsocrates:
Originally posted by Midnighter:

I'm interested to see how they take things this year - you've got a god awful Book 4 to pick from and a really good Book 5 to pick from as well. Book 4 is god awful slow, but it has 3 or 4 really, really important spoilers, which I won't get into. Lots of good stuff in Book 5 - mostly around Esteros and Daenaerys.

Cersei and Jaime in King's Landing
I wouldn't be suprised if Lena Headey gets a lot of screen time this season. She had to film a particularly tough scene this year, which will likely come near the end.

Daenaerys in Mereen
It ain't easy being Queen. Don't know if the last little cliffhanger bit of Book 5 will come this season or next...

Jon Snow at The Wall
Hopefully this will start to become one of your more favorite storylines going forward. I'd say there will be 3 new storylines that now split off from here - Sam/Gilly's Wild Journey, Stannis best version of Napolean's invasion of Russia and the Troubles of Jon Snow.

Littlefinger and Sansa En Route
I'm as interested to see where this goes. Ditto for Brienne's storyline.

Arya at The House of Black and White
This will be a slow storyline (book 4 stuff I believe) with a big payoff. Arya can't help but be one of everyone's favorite character. If you like the part where Mr. Miyagi trained Daniel-san, you might like this one - but trust me, but Episode 10, you'll see the badass that Arya has become. But not how you might think...

Varys and Tyrion En Route
I can't remember Varys going on this trip, but a good deal of Book 5 deals with this. You know what a long road trip needs? More colorful characters who get introduced along the way,

Dorne
Here's another long, boring storyline that takes up Big Chunks of Book 4 but that has a nice, key important reveal at the end.
If I remember slogging through the 2000 pages of Books 4 and 5, I'm pretty sure thinking it could have all been done in 500 pages. But in the end, its worth it, because you start to see Martin starting to weave all of the different storylines together towards a potential single path. I'm still waiting to see where the 4 or 5 storylines that just ended with some pretty big cliffhangers are going to go next!!!
I always love your comments and hints. I'm especially curious about Arya; my wish was for her to become a Faceless Assassin like Jaqen. I guess she doesn't, or becomes something else? Hm....

And we could use more Sam and Gilly. They're hilarious!!
 
Originally posted by wbcincy:

Originally posted by Midnighter:


Anyway, great second episode and lots more to dig into. I think we're going to start to see a lot of things differ from the books too, and I'm wondering how book readers will react to that. What did everyone think? Is this not the best show on TV or what??
It's certainly the show I look forward to the most. Each episode could run 5 hours and I'd never be bored watching it. I'm a little concerned about what becomes of the show as it leaves the books, but I won't get too worried unless it actually messes up. Martin has been giving indications there may be a little friction between him and the HBO writers, and I have a feeling he purposely takes the books a different direction just so he doesn't have to go along with any decisions the HBO writers make.

As an example, he recently talked about a big event he's considering in the next book that would change things dramatically, and he notes the TV show wouldn't be able to do it, because of decisions the TV show has already made about how it's told the story.
I think Weiss and Benioff do a nice job considering they're not able to put the show on hold for GRRM. It's a monster hit and can't afford the time it takes for him to finish things. Most people I know who have read the book say when the show veers it's typically for the better. To date I think everything has worked out rather well.
 
I actually really like the Jon Snow and the Wall storyline. I actually could do with the Daenaery's storyline. I find myself not really paying attention when it cuts to that storyline. Good breakdown. I look forward to Monday's when you do this.
 
I read the books, but decided to go through them again.

So just started recently back at book #1. Just about through.

Also started watching the series from the first season over again as well. I'm recording season 5 at the same time and will watch after getting through the first 4 for the second time.

I'm finding that I'm picking things up that I missed earlier. Just little nuances here and there that didn't hit me the first time through.
 
Not sure I'm loving some of these changes (book spoiler)...

The whole Jaime and Bronn going to Dorne and Brienne meeting up with Littlefinger/Sansa all seems a little contrived and too convenient. Like - "hey, we have all these great actors we have to use, so let's get them together."

I liked how the book storyline followed Jaime in the Riverlands and his encounter with the Blackfish and that whole storyline. There were some interesting reveals there that I'm not sure will play out in the show.

Also - got to wonder with the no show of Lady Stoneheart (so far), will Brienne's big cliffhanger ever play out. I really liked where that was going, and that (along with Jon Snow's fate) are the two biggest things I'm still looking forward to in the next book.

Verdict is still out on the Dorne and Tyrion storylines - but I also fear we're going to miss out on some of those journeys. Jon Connington? Griff? Will they appear?
 
Originally posted by Midnighter:

I always love your comments and hints. I'm especially curious about Arya; my wish was for her to become a Faceless Assassin like Jaqen. I guess she doesn't, or becomes something else? Hm....
Don't worry - the Arya storyline takes a little time, but I'm pretty sure you'll LOVE the last episode of this season.
 
Originally posted by Grass:
I actually really like the Jon Snow and the Wall storyline. I actually could do with the Daenaery's storyline. I find myself not really paying attention when it cuts to that storyline. Good breakdown. I look forward to Monday's when you do this.
Dany was great in the beginning as sort of the reluctant bride/queen, but yeah, she's basically been stagnant ever since she left Qarth. Freeing cities and stuff is fine, but get to Westeros already.
 
Agree. She was also my least favorite storyline in the book. I think (hope) once her storyline starts intersecting more with the Westeros storyline (i.e. if/when she ever meets up with Tyrion and/or gets over to Westeros), it will become more engaging. Right now - a lot of generally ho-hum character building and plot setting.
 
Originally posted by Grass:
I actually really like the Jon Snow and the Wall storyline. I actually could do with the Daenaery's storyline. I find myself not really paying attention when it cuts to that storyline. Good breakdown. I look forward to Monday's when you do this.
This is pure speculation on my part, but the Series is called A Song of Ice and Fire. Ice being Jon Snow and the Wall, and Fire being Daenerys and her Dragons.
 
Originally posted by dontgojoepa:
Agree. She was also my least favorite storyline in the book. I think (hope) once her storyline starts intersecting more with the Westeros storyline (i.e. if/when she ever meets up with Tyrion and/or gets over to Westeros), it will become more engaging. Right now - a lot of generally ho-hum character building and plot setting.
Ok, I hope this isn't spoiling anything, but...

A handful of threads in Books 4/5 that starts to develop are:

1) Why in the world is Daenerys serving as Queen in a backwater in Esteros, when she is SUPPOSED to be trying to get her throne back in Westeros. Of course, its a long journey, and there's lots of water, and lots of men. In other words - a logistical nighmare. Basically, a lot of the Dani story in Book 5 is "Why am I wasting my time here?" She was SUPPOSED to be learning how to be a Queen.

2) As you've already seen from Varys - there are a lot of people in Westeros who have decided that maybe its not such a bad idea to have a Targaryen BACK on the Iron Throne. WHO those people are...well, I leave that question unanswered because THAT is the next big spoiler.

Of course, some of the BIGGEST questions, I can't answer, and yet I have questions:
1) What are the White Walkers, what do they want, and what are they going to do?
2) What is the significance of Brandon Stark and the Three-Eyed Crow storyline?

I can't help but think those two storylines are intertwined and will help weave the Jon Snow and Daenerys stories into one master story.
 
I'm sure you heard that starting with the current season,

the show is not going to really follow the books as much. I'm guessing major plots will remain, but they have said that deaths in the books and tv show will not align starting this season. Something to be aware of after you get through the first 4 books.
 
This is pure speculation on my part, but the Series is called A Song of Ice and Fire. Ice being Jon Snow and the Wall, and Fire being Daenerys and her Dragons.

I've speculated about this as well, but I found myself leaning toward ice being the "others" and fire being Rhollor (sp) the fire god that Melisandre serves. The game of thrones that men play is a smaller struggle than the one on the horizon? Maybe I'm reading too much into it. :)
 
In regards to Daenerys, it's been mentioned in a few places (and maybe here as well) that the ongoings with the situation in Iraq were a big influence on Martin when he was writing this part. Basically it's saying - ok, we've freed these people, now we have to deal with the administrative fallout. I'm not sure if it's better in the book, but it doesn't make for very captivating TV.
 
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