3/4 way through True Detective - who's the bad guy?

[Nit777]

For a few weeks, I thought it might be Frank, who had faked the loss of his money and was taking all of his old assets back to boot.

However, two other guys I was suspicious of were Bodine, Chessani's lawyer and the Vinci police lieutenant who was Ray's boss. (trim 40 something guy with dark hair - was the bad guy con in Reindeer Games with Ben Affleck)

The phone conversation between Frank and the girl who had her throat slit leads me to believe it was the police lieutenant as she said it was a tall policeman who gave her the stuff to pawn. Probably throwing the police off the track toward the mexican gang who bought it in the episode 4 shoot out.

If it is the police LT, he probably has the 5M and the tape. Thus, he is not in bed with McCandless and Osip as they are still looking for the tape.

Looks like two sets of bad guys in the McCandless/Osip group trying to gain the rail corridor and the police LT attempting to grab a quick 5M and maybe some tape blackmail money.

Some questions:

Since Ani found Vera at the party, who was killed in the shack?

Who killed Stan and why?

Will Frank kill the two mexicans who slit Vera's throat?

Who was the other police/AD guy besides Geldorf at the sex party?

 

[rjg82]

I wish I could answer your questions but I can't. And with two episodes left I am still confused as to who the bad guys are. But I do think Ani's father and Franks's wife are somehow involved,

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

For a few weeks, I thought it might be Frank, who had faked the loss of his money and was taking all of his old assets back to boot.

However, two other guys I was suspicious of were Bodine, Chessani's lawyer and the Vinci police lieutenant who was Ray's boss. (trim 40 something guy with dark hair - was the bad guy con in Reindeer Games with Ben Affleck)

The phone conversation between Frank and the girl who had her throat slit leads me to believe it was the police lieutenant as she said it was a tall policeman who gave her the stuff to pawn. Probably throwing the police off the track toward the mexican gang who bought it in the episode 4 shoot out.

If it is the police LT, he probably has the 5M and the tape. Thus, he is not in bed with McCandless and Osip as they are still looking for the tape.

Looks like two sets of bad guys in the McCandless/Osip group trying to gain the rail corridor and the police LT attempting to grab a quick 5M and maybe some tape blackmail money.

Some questions:

Since Ani found Vera at the party, who was killed in the shack?

Who killed Stan and why?

Will Frank kill the two mexicans who slit Vera's throat?

Who was the other police/AD guy besides Geldorf at the sex party?

Last night's episode was the best so far this year IMO. Got to see our 'good guys' be police and actually *do* something. Ani slicing that guy up, even while high, was pretty impressive. At this point, I think we can assume that it's crooked cops/politicians behind what happened to Caspere, but we still don't know 'why'. I mean, it's one thing to want the guy out of the picture, quite another to perform a very specific form of torture and kill and set him up somewhere very public to be found. Two things stood out for me: 1 - the picture of the two kids orphaned during a jewel heist during the LA Riots - did they become the mayor's kids? I'll have to go back and re-watch, but that's what I thought he said. 2 - Ray's wife's rapist doesn't look anything like Chad either - hmmmm......

Ani's backstory revealing itself a bit during her molly induced haze wasn't surprising, and not really necessary IMO. Only two episodes left; need to get through the sophomore slump and move on...

 

[bmw199]

Last night's episode was the best so far this year IMO. Got to see our 'good guys' be police and actually *do* something. Ani slicing that guy up, even while high, was pretty impressive. At this point, I think we can assume that it's crooked cops/politicians behind what happened to Caspere, but we still don't know 'why'. I mean, it's one thing to want the guy out of the picture, quite another to perform a very specific form of torture and kill and set him up somewhere very public to be found. Two things stood out for me: 1 - the picture of the two kids orphaned during a jewel heist during the LA Riots - did they become the mayor's kids? I'll have to go back and re-watch, but that's what I thought he said. 2 - Ray's wife's rapist doesn't look anything like Chad either - hmmmm......

Ani's backstory revealing itself a bit during her molly induced haze wasn't surprising, and not really necessary IMO. Only two episodes left; need to get through the sophomore slump and move on...

Have they confirmed a third season? I really doubt there will be one.

 

[NewEra 2014]

In answer to your original question, "Who's the bad guy?", I believe the bad guy is the head writer for this season.


Just kidding, but I do think this season has been a struggle. This show has been structured with enough characters and subplots to fill about 13 episodes, but we only have an 8-episode season. Last season worked because it focused on the dynamic between the two lead detectives, and everyone else was ancillary to serving that story. Plus there was some prime female nudity last season, but I digress. The show was actually criticized for taking that minimalist approach last season, but it worked really well. This season 2 has been more of a jumbled mess, and I don't know if it has done a good enough job of making us care about solving the case. But I will reserve judgment until after the entire season plays out.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Have they confirmed a third season? I really doubt there will be one.

Why? Because Season 2 hasn't been that good? It's still a high profile show with potential and since each season is 'separate', there's no real need to worry about building on or using this cast again. Certainly, if done well (like Season 1), it's one of the best shows on TV. No reason for HBO to give up yet.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

In answer to your original question, "Who's the bad guy?", I believe the bad guy is the head writer for this season.


Just kidding, but I do think this season has been a struggle. This show has been structured with enough characters and subplots to fill about 13 episodes, but we only have an 8-episode season. Last season worked because it focused on the dynamic between the two lead detectives, and everyone else was ancillary to serving that story. Plus there was some prime female nudity last season, but I digress. The show was actually criticized for taking that minimalist approach last season, but it worked really well. This season 2 has been more of a jumbled mess, and I don't know if it has done a good enough job of making us care about solving the case. But I will reserve judgment until after the entire season plays out.

Agree - simply too much going on after a pretty good 'set up' in Episode 1. I mean, why are they giving so much attention to Frank's dead low level goon pal Stan when he was barely seen or mentioned prior to his death (note his eyes were burned out though, so maybe some connection to Caspere's death/murderer?)? At some point, you just hope all these seemingly unnecessary plot points are going to add up to something. By my count, we have to resolve:

- Caspere's murder
- purpose of blue diamonds
- how the Pantacenaeum (sp?) Institute fits into everything
- how Dr. Pitlor fits into everything
- how Chiassani's kids fit into everything
- how the missing woman/prostitute fits into everything (at least Ani found her!)
- Frank and Jordan's fertility issues
- Chad's biological father
- how the Mexicans fit into everything
- what Osip and Frank's other goon are up to and why
- what the business execs are up to and why
- why Caspere was buying up polluted properties
- Paul's sexuality and kid
- why is Stan important

 

[bmw199]

Why? Because Season 2 hasn't been that good? It's still a high profile show with potential and since each season is 'separate', there's no real need to worry about building on or using this cast again. Certainly, if done well (like Season 1), it's one of the best shows on TV. No reason for HBO to give up yet.

I know, but it's HBO they've made rash decisions in the past on Deadwood and Rome. If they think it's too pricey I think they'll cut it. I hope not. I actually don't hate this season

 

[robbrunskill]

Agree - simply too much going on after a pretty good 'set up' in Episode 1. I mean, why are they giving so much attention to Frank's dead low level goon pal Stan when he was barely seen or mentioned prior to his death (note his eyes were burned out though, so maybe some connection to Caspere's death/murderer?)? At some point, you just hope all these seemingly unnecessary plot points are going to add up to something. By my count, we have to resolve:

- Caspere's murder
- purpose of blue diamonds
- how the Pantacenaeum (sp?) Institute fits into everything
- how Dr. Pitlor fits into everything
- how Chiassani's kids fit into everything
- how the missing woman/prostitute fits into everything (at least Ani found her!)
- Frank and Jordan's fertility issues
- Chad's biological father
- how the Mexicans fit into everything
- what Osip and Frank's other goon are up to and why
- what the business execs are up to and why
- why Caspere was buying up polluted properties
- Paul's sexuality and kid
- why is Stan important

wasn't the polluted property tangent to the anticipated railroad line and expected to skyrocket in price? Love Frank's classic line "the Fed's involved, there will be overages" and every one's eyes widen and they start rubbing their greedy little hands together.

 

[jj410]

For a few weeks, I thought it might be Frank, who had faked the loss of his money and was taking all of his old assets back to boot.

However, two other guys I was suspicious of were Bodine, Chessani's lawyer and the Vinci police lieutenant who was Ray's boss. (trim 40 something guy with dark hair - was the bad guy con in Reindeer Games with Ben Affleck)

The phone conversation between Frank and the girl who had her throat slit leads me to believe it was the police lieutenant as she said it was a tall policeman who gave her the stuff to pawn. Probably throwing the police off the track toward the mexican gang who bought it in the episode 4 shoot out.

If it is the police LT, he probably has the 5M and the tape. Thus, he is not in bed with McCandless and Osip as they are still looking for the tape.

Looks like two sets of bad guys in the McCandless/Osip group trying to gain the rail corridor and the police LT attempting to grab a quick 5M and maybe some tape blackmail money.

Some questions:

Since Ani found Vera at the party, who was killed in the shack?

Who killed Stan and why?

Will Frank kill the two mexicans who slit Vera's throat?

Who was the other police/AD guy besides Geldorf at the sex party?

They are all bad guys.
A million sub-plots and a story that goes nowhere.

 

[rudedude]

This season sucks. It shows me that Pizzolato is really a hack writer and that Cary Fukunuga plus Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey made last season. Pizzolato likes to try and write clever conversations between characters, but it is a huge fail this season. If I see one more scene of Vince Vaughan trying to be heartfelt and sensitive, then I'll burn my own eyes out with the that friggin acid. Vaughan and Taylor Kitsch are totally useless. The only worthy characters are Velcorro and Bezzirides and I am really getting sick of the Velcorro paternity issue too. The last few episodes had some friggin action at the end finally. It appears to me that the show was written on a week to week basis. No continuity at all and very boring at times.

 

[PSU.:.]

I really don't have a clue what's going on this season. Mostly because I keep falling asleep each episode. Im impressed by anybody who can follow this season.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I know, but it's HBO they've made rash decisions in the past on Deadwood and Rome. If they think it's too pricey I think they'll cut it. I hope not. I actually don't hate this season

I don't hate it either (it's a 'watch live' show for me) but it's really, really, really doing it's best to make itself very unlikable. There's just too much going on and way too many tangential plot threads that may or may not lead anywhere, or worse, won't get resolved. Moreover, the story is just really confusing, and told in a way that provides little clarity. I'm hoping unlike last year, that this year's finale will tie things up all nice and neat (have to admit, the finale last year wasn't very good, but everything else before it was so great, it didn't matter), but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm hopeful HBO will give it another year - everyone knows Deadwood was cancelled way too early. With Fukunaga, Harrison, and McConeaughy all on as executive producers, I'm hoping they can reel Pizzolato in a bit next year (this was him completely unhinged and given free reign) - shrink the story, have a couple of compelling leads, and get back to the whole 'cosmic horror'/occult thing (and maybe have Alexandra Daddario show up for a few episodes??) and I'd be all in

 

[robbrunskill]

This season sucks. It shows me that Pizzolato is really a hack writer and that Cary Fukunuga plus Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey made last season. Pizzolato likes to try and write clever conversations between characters, but it is a huge fail this season. If I see one more scene of Vince Vaughan trying to be heartfelt and sensitive, then I'll burn my own eyes out with the that friggin acid. Vaughan and Taylor Kitsch are totally useless. The only worthy characters are Velcorro and Bezzirides and I am really getting sick of the Velcorro paternity issue too. The last few episodes had some friggin action at the end finally. It appears to me that the show was written on a week to week basis. No continuity at all and very boring at times.

The writers seem hung up on paternity issues. Chessani, Bezzirides, Semyon, Velcorro, little Chad/Ray's former wife and Woodrough all seem to have their own unique fatherhood hangups. Not sure what the underlying message is or how it relates to the corrupt underbellies of law enforcement, drug empires, politics and business. Where does Stan's relationship with his son fit in? Chad's step father seems to be the only (living) parent to have his $hit together.

 

[WeR0206]

It seems to me the bad guys are: state AG/person running for governor and the higher ups at Vinci city hall/Police dept are colluding. The intial investigation into the murder was a sham to whitewash what really happened (think of this as the freeh report).

There actually seems to be a lot parallels with what happened to PSU with Tom Corbett being a corrupt scumbag AG/governor protecting TSM and using freeh to whitewash.

 

[bmw199]

and maybe have Alexandra Daddario show up for a few episodes??

I think everyone will agree on that!

The one thing I don't get is why the cops weren't alerted to Stan's murder and haven't connected it to Casper's via the eye acid. At first I thought it was because Vaughn covered it up, but then when they were at Stan's house his widow talked about the funeral and if there was a funeral then the cops know he was murdered...

 

[NewEra 2014]

Pretty sure that Colin Farrell killed Stan. The reason being that there are only two scenes with Stan in the entire show before he got killed. Yet there has been significant time spent with VV visiting Stan's widow and kid since then, even though the audience doesn't know anything about freaking Stan.

One scene with Stan was when he maced and beat up the guy below the underpass before VV came in and then threatened the guy. The other scene was a flashback when Colin Farrell was given the (false) name of the guy who raped his wife, and then ended up killing the wrong guy for VV. Stan happened to be in the bar when Colin Farrell was given the name of the guy. So, my theory is that CF killed Stan, partly because he is pissed at VV, and partly to kill off anyone who knows about the murder he did for VV.

The hole in my theory is that Stan's eyes were burnt out, just like the councilman's eyes. I don't think it falls into place that CF killed the councilman as well, but I will have to think about that some more.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

The hole in my theory is that Stan's eyes were burnt out, just like the councilman's eyes. I don't think it falls into place that CF killed the councilman as well, but I will have to think about that some more.

Isn't the other hole that CF didn't know he killed the wrong guy until well after Stan was already murdered?

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

It seems to me the bad guys are: state AG/person running for governor and the higher ups at Vinci city hall/Police dept are colluding. The intial investigation into the murder was a sham to whitewash what really happened (think of this as the freeh report).

There actually seems to be a lot parallels with what happened to PSU with Tom Corbett being a corrupt scumbag AG/governor protecting TSM and using freeh to whitewash.

This makes sense and we know the initial investigation was an 'information gathering' effort on behalf of each party (each with their own sacrificial lamb - Velcoro, Besserides, and Woodrough) to shake down Vinci and all the money they have. Once everyone got what they wanted, they set up the Mexican pimp as a patsy and called it case closed. Given the orgy attendees last week, a lot of these guys were into at least *some* of what Caspere was (and attended the same parties). Still, seems to me there was maybe only one other guy or party who was into what he was into (the more private, perverted stuff he liked to videotape) - the business guy Dieffenbach who works for that company that is spearheading the land investments for the group of 'investors" (to include Frank and Osip, and others). He, or the guy he works for, is likely on the video contained on Caspere's missing hard drive, and he wants it back. This leads me to believe that we haven't met our killer yet - this person has motives that go beyond a land deal IMO. I also think this person has ties to law enforcement given the weapon used on Velcoro.

Two wildcards:

- Ani's father; something is up with that dude...
- Dr. Pitlor - my best guess for the killer of those characters we've seen

 

[NewEra 2014]

Isn't the other hole that CF didn't know he killed the wrong guy until well after Stan was already murdered?

As I recall, VV threatened once or twice to CF about going to jail for killing the guy, so it didn't really matter if it was the right guy or the wrong guy that CF killed. VV was blackmailing CF, and CF in his drug and alcohol induced state proactively killed Stan in order to try to protect himself.

Or it could be another hole in my theory!

 

[robbrunskill]

This makes sense and we know the initial investigation was an 'information gathering' effort on behalf of each party (each with their own sacrificial lamb - Velcoro, Besserides, and Woodrough) to shake down Vinci and all the money they have. Once everyone got what they wanted, they set up the Mexican pimp as a patsy and called it case closed. Given the orgy attendees last week, a lot of these guys were into at least *some* of what Caspere was (and attended the same parties). Still, seems to me there was maybe only one other guy or party who was into what he was into (the more private, perverted stuff he liked to videotape) - the business guy Dieffenbach who works for that company that is spearheading the land investments for the group of 'investors" (to include Frank and Osip, and others). He, or the guy he works for, is likely on the video contained on Caspere's missing hard drive, and he wants it back. This leads me to believe that we haven't met our killer yet - this person has motives that go beyond a land deal IMO. I also think this person has ties to law enforcement given the weapon used on Velcoro.

Two wildcards:

- Ani's father; something is up with that dude...
- Dr. Pitlor - my best guess for the killer of those characters we've seen

Why do you think the bird mask spared Velcoro? I'm thinking it was his skinny, dark haired lieutenant doing the shooting and he spared Ray out of some sort of loyalty or maybe Ray would be more useful alive to help find the hard drive or even continue being used to misdirect the investigation.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Why do you think the bird mask spared Velcoro? I'm thinking it was his skinny, dark haired lieutenant doing the shooting and he spared Ray out of some sort of loyalty or maybe Ray would be more useful alive to help find the hard drive or even continue being used to misdirect the investigation.

You're thinking it's Frank's one time top assistant, the red headed guy with the pock marked face, right? I thought before he was actually Velcoro's wife's rapist, and this makes sense given 'what we know' (ie, everything we've actually seen). Also, he knows for sure Caspere had Frank's money (the other missing item, besides the hard drive). Wait - are the blue diamonds missing? Or were those found? Aren't they worth millions? Anyway, like you said, he has good reason to keep Velcoro alive (for Frank) and he likely knew Velcoro would be at that house (Frank is the one who tipped him off to it's location; surely, his top assistant would know that, right?). Still, he's a pretty obvious choice - not sure if Pizzolatto will stick with the obvious after all the red herrings last year...

 

[bmw199]

They need a scene where someone just describes what is going on with certain things. How did the diamonds go from stolen in 92 to in Casper's possession to in his safety deposit box to stolen from evidence locker.

Who was killed in the cabin, it wasn't Casper or Ani's missing person or Stan?

Why did they kill Stan and why aren't the cops investigating it?

To me all signs point to Lieutenant Burris doing a lot of bad deeds on behalf of someone. Dixon was probably working for him before he was killed in the shootout.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

They need a scene where someone just describes what is going on with certain things. How did the diamonds go from stolen in 92 to in Casper's possession to in his safety deposit box to stolen from evidence locker.

Who was killed in the cabin, it wasn't Casper or Ani's missing person or Stan?

Why did they kill Stan and why aren't the cops investigating it?

To me all signs point to Lieutenant Burris doing a lot of bad deeds on behalf of someone. Dixon was probably working for him before he was killed in the shootout.

I think we're gonna get that episode - maybe the last one, maybe the next one - where, a la the finale of Season 1, you get a shot of the life of our killer. But, this time I think it'll be of Caspere and his connections to everyone involved in this entire mess.

 

[robbrunskill]

You're thinking it's Frank's one time top assistant, the red headed guy with the pock marked face, right? I thought before he was actually Velcoro's wife's rapist, and this makes sense given 'what we know' (ie, everything we've actually seen). Also, he knows for sure Caspere had Frank's money (the other missing item, besides the hard drive). Wait - are the blue diamonds missing? Or were those found? Aren't they worth millions? Anyway, like you said, he has good reason to keep Velcoro alive (for Frank) and he likely knew Velcoro would be at that house (Frank is the one who tipped him off to it's location; surely, his top assistant would know that, right?). Still, he's a pretty obvious choice - not sure if Pizzolatto will stick with the obvious after all the red herrings last year...

I was thinking it was Lt. Burris but Blake is a worthy suspect as well. Blake is probably pulling the puppet strings and Burris is doing all of the "wet work". Frank will end up killing Blake to avenge Stan (who probably stumbled into some things he shouldn't have or maybe he was a part of the scheme and then got a conscience). I don't think the series ends well for Velcoro (think Harvey Keitel in "The Bad Lieutenant")