“elite” teams DON’T lose to Minnesota and Kentucky

[JusticeBarkley]

Yes. And just basing on where their teams are compared to where they started, Franklin has done more than those three even.

We're talking about today. As of today, in year 6 at Penn State, you're saying TODAY, there's only 2 or 3 coaches that are CURRENTLY better.

Why are we worried about the past? The past is already altered. Best coaches don't have a ceiling. Do you believe, in our current situation, only 3 coaches would have more success with this roster? I'm talking about coaching.

 

[Wesauking Lion]

Thanks for resorting to name calling!
Let me get this out in the open:
We will NEVER, NEVER, EVER, NEVER make the playoffs with JF as coach.
At least 25-30 other coaches DEMOLISH Minnesota, today.
He is a mediocre coach, that wins merely with his talented roster. He CAN NOT, and WILL NOT take us to the next level
Rahne is the worst OC in FBS, and if JF doesn’t fire him, then we’ll wallow even further in mediocrity until Rahne goes, or Rahne’s incompetence leads to CJFs departure.
I hope I’m dead, dead, dead, dead wrong in the above paragraph!!!
Notice how I didn’t resort to name calling, to make my point???

This 10 x...

 

[nittany119]

40% loss of scholarships and all players permitted to leave without consequences....other than SMU that is unprecedented! Do you realize how much of a hole that placed us in? Apparently not.[/QUOTE

Not to mention the lack of offensive linemen recruits.

 

[MaconNitt]

Perennial cellar dwellers? Really? Last year’s UK team was as far from a cellar dweller as you can get....and this year’s Minny team is even further. I am utterly baffled by the level of stupidity on this board after a loss.

Some posters on here would win a gold medal if bandwagon jumping and stupidity were Olympic sports. And its not just after a loss

 

[Crusher1950]

I'm still trying to comprehend why anyone cares that we lost to Kentucky in a bowl game that has absolutely no meaning.

 

[AWS1022]

We're talking about today. As of today, in year 6 at Penn State, you're saying TODAY, there's only 2 or 3 coaches that are CURRENTLY better.

Why are we worried about the past? The past is already altered. Best coaches don't have a ceiling. Do you believe, in our current situation, only 3 coaches would have more success with this roster? I'm talking about coaching.

Other coaches don’t get to inherit this roster...they have to build it while dealing with a reputation that’s still badly stained. You act like because we’re recruiting well and winning the sanctions never happened. We’re in a better place than we’ve been in 30 years.

 

[JusticeBarkley]

What I don't understand, and maybe this is my fault, even if we could agree that Smart was a better coach than Franklin why would it matter. Smart isn't coming here so it's not like we'd want to get rid of Franklin.

Franklin was my top choice when O'Brien left. Couldn't be happier with what he's done but now we need to get to the next level. Can he get us there? We'll find out.

 

[JusticeBarkley]

Other coaches don’t get to inherit this roster...they have to build it while dealing with a reputation that’s still badly stained. You act like because we’re recruiting well and winning the sanctions never happened. We’re in a better place than we’ve been in 30 years.

They would though. If Franklin left another coach would take that roster, right? We're not talking about who was the best coach to hire 6 years ago. What am I missing?

 

[marisa45]

We're in year 6. How many years do we give him. What year to we count as Franklin's 1st year? Year 4 or 5? If so, he still hasn't accomplished as much as them because they made the playoffs in year 1 and 2. So, what year?

Bama just scored back. Who said Bama wasn't elite.

If I was trying to run Franklin out of town you'd make sense but I'm not. I want Franklin here.

Dude, you’re insane. six years ago we were in the middle of the toughest sanctions ever levied by the NCAA.

Fast forward and we’re 8-0 coming into today (top 4 nationally). We’ve been getting great recruits. We were in playoff contention until today. The USC rumors are not BS, they’re real. This is a top 5 coach and he’s young and you guys act like he’s on his last leg and the sky is falling. Sorry, but that’s like baths!t crazy!

There’s a great line from a Radiohead song......”ambition makes you look pretty ugly”.

Seriously, it’s too much please stop.

 

[AWS1022]

They would though. If Franklin left another coach would take that roster, right? We're not talking about who was the best coach to hire 6 years ago. What am I missing?

You’re missing that Franklin is still recruiting at that level and other coaches wouldn’t be. If we got another coach, our recruiting would drop off (assuming we got someone like Rhule). I would rather have someone who is a better recruiter than a game day coach than vice versa.

 

[JusticeBarkley]

Dude, you’re insane. six years ago we were in the middle of the toughest sanctions ever levied by the NCAA. we were 8-0 coming into today (top 4 nationally). we’ve been getting great recruits. We were in playoff contention until today. The USC rumors are not BS, they’re real. This is a top 5 coach and he’s young and you guys act like he’s on his

You certainly don’t sound like it. You sound like someone detached from reality.

Did I mention USC? WHat are you talking about? I'm glad we have Franklin and hope he's here for another 10-15 years. I don't think he's earned top 5 yet though. You have to make the playoff to be in that discussion.

You're focused on the past. Step into the future. That's where reality is. No one cares about the sanctions any more. We can't talk about those forever. Move on.

 

[IANit]

NO!
The person who responded was trying to say OSU isn’t elite, because they lost to Iowa and Purdue, the past 2 seasons.
I’m saying they are.
They’ve won a title/had MULTIPLE playoff appearances in the past 1/2 decade(which is much much much more than Fraud Franklin can say).
And ya know.....the OSU coaches actually know how to prepare for games. They don’t have to worry about losing to SEC cellar dwellers, b/c they make a NY6 bowl 19/20 years!

They were in the playoffs twice and got waxed by Clemson when we had a much more explosive offense. In case you weren't able to figure it out. this Minnesota team has some dudes and they're well-coached. They'll be undefeated when they get to Indy. Hopefully we get a rematch.

 

[Sooner Lion]

You’re missing that Franklin is still recruiting at that level and other coaches wouldn’t be. If we got another coach, our recruiting would drop off (assuming we got someone like Rhule). I would rather have someone who is a better recruiter than a game day coach than vice versa.

And the recruiter just got his ass kicked by the game day coach.

 

[JusticeBarkley]

You’re missing that Franklin is still recruiting at that level and other coaches wouldn’t be. If we got another coach, our recruiting would drop off (assuming we got someone like Rhule). I would rather have someone who is a better recruiter than a game day coach than vice versa.

The last statement is tough. You have to be able to do both at a high level which is why I think Smart is better.

Also, I'm not missing that. If Franklin leaves (hopefully he doesn't) for the first year we'd have a coach with his guys thanks to the early signing period.

 

[AWS1022]

Did I mention USC? WHat are you talking about? I'm glad we have Franklin and hope he's here for another 10-15 years. I don't think he's earned top 5 yet though. You have to make the playoff to be in that discussion.

You're focused on the past. Step into the future. That's where reality is. No one cares about the sanctions any more. We can't talk about those forever. Move on.

So Dantonio is ahead of Franklin because he made the CFP even though he did it when OSU was down, PSU was in the middle of sanctions, and Michigan was way down? Got it.

 

[AWS1022]

And the recruiter just got his ass kicked by the game day coach.

We’ll see...give it time. The game day coach had 5 losses last year including getting blown out by MD and Illinois. One game doesn’t make a career.

 

[JusticeBarkley]

So Dantonio is ahead of Franklin because he made the CFP even though he did it when OSU was down, PSU was in the middle of sanctions, and Michigan was way down? Got it.

Dantonio does more with less talent than most coaches. I know people here refuse to give him credit but Dantonio is a pretty damn good coach. Kudos to him for making the playoffs and taking advantage of the opportunity.

What's his record against Franklin?

 

[AWS1022]

The last statement is tough. You have to be able to do both at a high level which is why I think Smart is better.

Also, I'm not missing that. If Franklin leaves (hopefully he doesn't) for the first year we'd have a coach with his guys thanks to the early signing period.

Smart lost to SC...so he’s not doing it at that high of a level. And with the way he’s recruiting, he shouldn’t lose to anyone. He’s also in a pretty poor division.

 

[JusticeBarkley]

We’ll see...give it time. The game day coach had 5 losses last year including getting blown out by MD and Illinois. One game doesn’t make a career.

Wait--what situation did Fleck walk into? Who cares that he lost 5 games last year? Be consistent.

 

[AWS1022]

Dantonio does more with less talent than most coaches. I know people here refuse to give him credit but Dantonio is a pretty damn good coach. Kudos to him for making the playoffs and taking advantage of the opportunity.

What's his record against Franklin?

He’s a good coach but not a great recruiter....could be why he doesn’t win shit anymore.

 

[JusticeBarkley]

Smart lost to SC...so he’s not doing it at that high of a level. And with the way he’s recruiting, he shouldn’t lose to anyone. He’s also in a pretty poor division.

Wait, so you acknowledge he recruits at a high level (better than anyone) but because he lost one game to a bad team he's not coaching on a high level. You're not consistent. EVER.

 

[JusticeBarkley]

He’s a good coach but not a great recruiter....could be why he doesn’t win shit anymore.

What's his record against Franklin?
Wouldn't you agree it's much harder to recruit at a high level at Michigan State than Penn State?

 

[psu00]

Keeping Rahne as OC, doesn’t scream elite!
Not playing press coverage/having your secondary continually lit up by QBs, who wouldn’t even be our 7th stringer doesn’t scream elite!!

Minny QB was 18/20 for 339 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs. He only missed 2 passes all day.

I know Rahne deserves the heat but the PSU D pass coverage makes average QBs look like all Americans way too often. The pass coverage today was horrible.

 

[AWS1022]

Wait--what situation did Fleck walk into? Who cares that he lost 5 games last year? Be consistent.

I was making a point that the other poster can’t use one game to judge that a game day coach is better than a recruiter. Recruiting is waaayyyy more important because great players make a lot of coaches look like great game day coaches. And I don’t care how great of a game day coach someone is, they can’t win consistently without talent.

 

[Shadow99]

They would though. If Franklin left another coach would take that roster, right? We're not talking about who was the best coach to hire 6 years ago. What am I missing?

You are missing the transfer portal, so no it wouldn't necessarily be the same roster. All of the discussion about in-game coaching is one thing, but those saying "he is just a great recruiter but needs to go" incorrectly pretend that recruiting doesn't matter...if it doesn't matter than why has a "talent gap" be discussed so frequently over the past few years?

 

[JusticeBarkley]

I was making a point that the other poster can’t use one game to judge that a game day coach is better than a recruiter. Recruiting is waaayyyy more important because great players make a lot of coaches look like great game day coaches. And I don’t care how great of a game day coach someone is, they can’t win consistently without talent.

Right--I agree with the first sentence. One game doesn't define anything.
You don't believe Fleck could recruit at a high level at a big time program? The guy sure seems like someone kids would want to play for.
Fleck is going to get a big time job sooner than later. if Franklin did leave, hopefully he doesn't, he'd be near the top of my list with Satterfield.

 

[AWS1022]

Wait, so you acknowledge he recruits at a high level (better than anyone) but because he lost one game to a bad team he's not coaching on a high level. You're not consistent. EVER.

He lost to a bad team and he doesn’t win to the level of his recruiting...that points to someone who is not a great game day coach. He’s a lot like Calipari in basketball.

 

[JusticeBarkley]

You are missing the transfer portal, so no it wouldn't necessarily be the same roster. All of the discussion about in-game coaching is one thing, but those saying "he is just a great recruiter but needs to go" incorrectly pretend that recruiting doesn't matter...if it doesn't matter than why has a "talent gap" be discussed so frequently over the past few years?

I've never said "he needs to go" or anything resembling that.
People make excuses is why it was likely discussed.

 

[JusticeBarkley]

He lost to a bad team and he doesn’t win to the level of his recruiting...that points to someone who is not a great game day coach. He’s a lot like Calipari in basketball.

Do we win to the level of our recruiting? Do we have bad losses?
He lost one game to a bad team. One game. It isn't "a trend". Now, if it continues I'll jump on board with you.

 

[AWS1022]

Right--I agree with the first sentence. One game doesn't define anything.
You don't believe Fleck could recruit at a high level at a big time program? The guy sure seems like someone kids would want to play for.
Fleck is going to get a big time job sooner than later. if Franklin did leave, hopefully he doesn't, he'd be near the top of my list with Satterfield.

I never said Fleck couldn’t recruit at a high level. I like him as a coach and if Franklin left I would certainly be behind Fleck (or Rhule or Matt Campbell). All I’m saying is none of those guys (or anyone else) has done what Franklin has done and I think he should get a lot more appreciation from some of the posters on this board. God forbid he loses a game now and then.

 

[JusticeBarkley]

I never said Fleck couldn’t recruit at a high level. I like him as a coach and if Franklin left I would certainly be behind Fleck (or Rhule or Matt Campbell). All I’m saying is none of those guys (or anyone else) has done what Franklin has done and I think he should get a lot more appreciation from some of the posters on this board. God forbid he loses a game now and then.

That's fine. We can agree on that. Franklin is largely underappreciated here.
I think, and if I'm wrong I apologize, you slightly overreact to me trying to give Smart and others credit because of the insane people here that refuse to give Franklin credit that's due to him.

 

[AWS1022]

Do we win to the level of our recruiting? Do we have bad losses?
He lost one game to a bad team. One game. It isn't "a trend". Now, if it continues I'll jump on board with you.

I think we win above our level of recruiting. We’re in the top 10, but we’re not a consistent top 10 team in recruiting. If you’re #1 or #2 every year in recruiting, you should be a top 2 team every year.

 

[nittany119]

We're in year 6. How many years do we give him. What year to we count as Franklin's 1st year? Year 4 or 5? If so, he still hasn't accomplished as much as them because they made the playoffs in year 1 and 2. So, what year?

Bama just scored back. Who said Bama wasn't elite.

If I was trying to run Franklin out of town you'd make sense but I'm not. I want Franklin here.

Most pundits had us losing 2 of 3 or worse last month. We won them all. Would it have been better to lose as predicted and win today? If anything, we’ve overachieved this year.

 

[JusticeBarkley]

I think we win above our level of recruiting. We’re in the top 10, but we’re not a consistent top 10 team in recruiting. If you’re #1 or #2 every year in recruiting, you should be a top 2 team every year.

I don't feel like anyone should be 1 or 2 every year regardless of the recruiting numbers. JMO.

 

[AWS1022]

That's fine. We can agree on that. Franklin is largely underappreciated here.
I think, and if I'm wrong I apologize, you slightly overreact to me trying to give Smart and others credit because of the insane people here that refuse to give Franklin credit that's due to him.

Give them credit all you want, just don’t over credit them based on what they inherited. Taking over the Astros and winning a World Series is not as impressive as taking over the Pirates and making the playoffs.

 

[JusticeBarkley]

Most pundits had us losing 2 of 3 or worse last month. We won them all. Would it have been better to lose as predicted and win today? If anything, we’ve overachieved this year.

I'm not arguing that. Never did. If we go 10-2 this year I'm very happy with the season as a whole. I've never said otherwise.

 

[PeetzPoolBoy]

I'm not arguing that. Never did. If we go 10-2 this year I'm very happy with the season as a whole. I've never said otherwise.

How will you feel about 9-3? Happy?

 

[JusticeBarkley]

Give them credit all you want, just don’t over credit them based on what they inherited. Taking over the Astros and winning a World Series is not as impressive as taking over the Pirates and making the playoffs.

I still think you believe Georgia was better than they were we he arrived. I believe (going off memory) they weren't even ranked 2 of his last 3 years and his first year was anything but easy. Not a Penn State situation but in year 6 now. I just don't know when we can put them on a level playing field. I feel like we're there now. You don't. So....

 

[JusticeBarkley]

How will you fell about 9-3? Happy?

Ummm...that means we lost to Indiana at home so, no, probably not happy. I'll go with content though disappointed losing 3 of 4.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Maybe... maybe not.

However, it was an example of PSU having weeks to get ready, came out flat, and lost to a good but 1-dimensional team that the old guy would have hammered.

Not that it matters but I jumped off the bandwagon after that.

What old guy?