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Zeke Moisey granted release from WVU

As opposed to a lineup with a season of college championship experience and the trsining, learning and one on one instruction that goes with being the starter?

Just venturing a guess, but the only way any of those kids ends up at Penn State is if the staff discovers what is currently in place is not going to be ready. Zain, Mark, Morgan, and Nico were pretty solid as freshmen.

I wasn't debating anything. I just threw a thought out there. Neither you nor I know what Cael is thinking. I suggested he might "kick the tires." To me, that would be, at the very least, a thorough coach doing some due diligence.
 
That's one way to look at it, but the 'haves' taking from 'have nots' isn't going to grow wrestling. In the last 7 years only 9 different teams have occupied the the top-5 spots at nationals. If those same teams are now pilfering top wrestlers from the rest, how are the rest going to build a program?

If WVU, Stanford and the like are having trouble getting fan interest, I can't imagine losing AAs will put more butts in seats. The end result could be more teams closing up shop.

I don't know the answer, certainly you want freedom of movement the other way. Guys like Hammond, Dunmore and the Laws got their chance to wrestle. I just have concerns with the recent movement of AAs ... especially if certain coaches are tampering/recruiting from other schools.

Coaches aren't concerned with growing wrestling in this capacity, though. A coach that turns down a guy who could help them win a title because it's not "good for the sport" aren't going to be a coach at that school long. Or, they end up like Iowa, with coaches who last year realized how out of touch they were with recruiting after spending 8 years not winning a title.

Coaches are concerned with winning and doing what is best for their program, and if that means taking an AA caliber guy as a one year plug then they'll do it. That includes Cael if he thinks it's better for the team.
 
I wasn't debating anything. I just threw a thought out there. Neither you nor I know what Cael is thinking. I suggested he might "kick the tires." To me, that would be, at the very least, a thorough coach doing some due diligence.
You threw it out as a possible thought process and i threw a counter thought out that based on history is more likely.

Again, using history as a guideline yes I do know it is unlikely PSU brings in any of these transfers if the staff believes what they have available is most likely superior to what any of the transfers have to offer.
 
it seems like it's moving toward the professional soccer model where there's a top tier of teams that every player hopes to be good enough to play for some day. players may start with a smaller club (in this metaphor, WVU) but if they show that they are sufficient caliber they'll try to force a move to one of those big clubs (tOSU).

in this metaphor PSU is probably manchester city, who were purchased by a UAE billionaire in 2008 and are now the most dominant club in the EPL.
We're not Manchester City. We're Real Madrid.
 
The mercenary isn't our style. Not what Cael does. And no, nay sayers, Kuhn and Keener were not anything like bringing in McKenna and Campbell, or bringing in DeSanto or Perry, or now Moisey and whoever else jumps on the tan gravy train. Cael and the staff identify them, they become part of the family, and the special qualities they have are then enhanced with coaching and philosophy. I like Gavin, Brody, and Roman. Lets roll with them.
Other than talent what is the difference between the 2 guys PSU brought in for a year (or couple months) and any other "mercenary" you listed?

BTW, PSU recruited at least 2 of those guys when they hit the market and I'm sure just about all if not all would have been welcomed if they wanted to go to PSU.

"The mercenary isn't our style. Not what Cael does"
tenor.gif
 
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Other than talent what is the difference between the 2 guys PSU brought in for a year (or couple months) and any other "mercenary" you listed?

BTW, PSU recruited at least 2 of those guys when they hit the market and I'm sure just about all if not all would have been welcomed if they wanted to go to PSU.

"The mercenary isn't our style. Not what Cael does"
tenor.gif
On the one hand, I agree with your point. On the other hand, my sense is that transfers overall bring less to the bottom line than the effort to recruit and assimilate them into an environment. It’s very similar to hiring a new employee. Do you want someone with experience who may have to unlearn some bad habits, or do you go with the kid just out of college who can be more easily molded into your system. No right or wrong, but each coach needs to have a philosophy.
 
More sour than most of your posts. Andrew followed Cael from Iowa State. Based on your logic (drinking too much HR cool-aid) David Taylor was a hired gun also.

Nope. Never enrolled. Taylor is in Verkleeren, Billy Murphy conversation
 
That's one way to look at it, but the 'haves' taking from 'have nots' isn't going to grow wrestling. In the last 7 years only 9 different teams have occupied the the top-5 spots at nationals. If those same teams are now pilfering top wrestlers from the rest, how are the rest going to build a program?

If WVU, Stanford and the like are having trouble getting fan interest, I can't imagine losing AAs will put more butts in seats. The end result could be more teams closing up shop.

I don't know the answer, certainly you want freedom of movement the other way. Guys like Hammond, Dunmore and the Laws got their chance to wrestle. I just have concerns with the recent movement of AAs ... especially if certain coaches are tampering/recruiting from other schools.


You are absolutely correct....the "haves" benefit from taking from the "Have nots". But...the reason many wrestlers want to transfer to the "Haves" is because they are the "Haves". They have better facilities, better workout partners and much more fan support. I didn't say I like it but I certainly understand it.
 
So did "Have" Rutgers take Suriano from "Have Not" PSU? Did "Have" Lock Haven take Marsteller from "Have Not" Okie State?
 
So did "Have" Rutgers take Suriano from "Have Not" PSU? Did "Have" Lock Haven take Marsteller from "Have Not" Okie State?

Those were 2 outlier cases don't you think?

After struggling with a weight cut and getting suspended at Okie St, he not only left the team, he quit the sport. Marsteller's tweet went like this: "Not a quitter but I'm done with this sport it no longer needs me and I no longer will suffer from it.''

Showing up on Lock Haven's roster was more of a revival than a transfer. He's still in the sport because individuals took interest in a young man in trouble.

Surriano? Theories abound .. who knows which to believe .. but we haven't seen many elite wrestlers (established AAs) choose a similar path and I doubt we'll see many in the future..
 
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So did "Have" Rutgers take Suriano from "Have Not" PSU? Did "Have" Lock Haven take Marsteller from "Have Not" Okie State?

No they did not. In these two cases.....the transfers were because they were not happy where they were (Suriano ) or got suspended and was very unhappy ( Marsteller) so they went somewhere else. Many others .....Law brothers, Hammond and many others across the country left "Haves" so they could start somewhere else. I was referring to starters who left to go to Better programs because they could........or got recruited.......which seemed to be the topic of the thread.
 
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We are a country with a high divorce rate. So we can’t realistically complain about ship jumpers, given our culture. We’d have to complain about the culture, and who wants that? :)
 
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Those were 2 outlier cases don't you think?

After struggling with a weight cut and getting suspended at Okie St, he not only left the team, he quit the sport. Marsteller's tweet went like this: "Not a quitter but I'm done with this sport it no longer needs me and I no longer will suffer from it.''

Showing up on Lock Haven's roster was more of a revival than a transfer. He's still in the sport because individuals took interest in a young man in trouble.

Surriano? Theories abound .. who knows which to believe .. but we haven't seen many elite wrestlers (established AAs) choose a similar path and I doubt we'll see many in the future..
No, can't have it both ways. If Suriano is an outlier then so is McKenna -- nobody punts on a Stanford education half-way thru in order to attend Ohio State. If Marsteller is an outlier, then so is Bubba. If Gross leaving Iowa is an outlier, then so is Downey going to Iowa. They all count or none of them do.

Frankly, I don't understand why people are invested in what others decide to do with their lives. Competitive balance? Whatever. If the pendulum swings too far, people will transfer in the other direction and the pendulum will swing back.

Besides, I didn't see anyone saying Cortez, Keener, or Kuhn should've transferred to Edinboro or Bloomsburg or Maryland or UTC instead of PSU.
 
When there is a coaching change, it should not be a big deal.

Would love to have ZM, but I’m not making funds available for him and he may have to go 133.
 
More sour than most of your posts. Andrew followed Cael from Iowa State. Based on your logic (drinking too much HR cool-aid) David Taylor was a hired gun also.

There is a little more involved than 'following Cael' in the Long story. Taylor was following Cael, Long was closer to a Downey, Desanto situation.
 
No, can't have it both ways. If Suriano is an outlier then so is McKenna -- nobody punts on a Stanford education half-way thru in order to attend Ohio State. If Marsteller is an outlier, then so is Bubba. If Gross leaving Iowa is an outlier, then so is Downey going to Iowa. They all count or none of them do.

Frankly, I don't understand why people are invested in what others decide to do with their lives. Competitive balance? Whatever. If the pendulum swings too far, people will transfer in the other direction and the pendulum will swing back.

Besides, I didn't see anyone saying Cortez, Keener, or Kuhn should've transferred to Edinboro or Bloomsburg or Maryland or UTC instead of PSU.

Your comparatives don't hit the mark IMO.. The thread was about Moisey leaving WVU. Zeke Moisey ... a 2 time AA looking for higher ground ,,, similar to McKenna, an AA.

Cortez, Kuhn and Keener were never close to AA, Marsteller and Gross had accomplished nothing at the college before they left. Surriano and Bubba didn't fit at PSU for some reason... Downey? Really? If ever there was outlier he would be it.

As for being invested in what others do with their lives, where do you get that?. Moisey can go wherever he wants.

Let me be more blunt, I thought it was implicit with my posts in this thread. My concern is that, IMO biased view, there is recruiting/tampering going on. More specifically tOSU. They had 2 holes coming into this year ,,, Campbell and McKenna show up. They have a hole at 125 next year and 2 weeks ago there are reports they're after Schram (AA), now suddenly Moisey (AA) is on the market with OSU a likely landing spot

Maybe ZM will end up somewhere else, but wouldn't it be at least suspicious if Ryan gets him ? Has any team ever poached 2 AAs in 2 years at positions of need?
 
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