wow, so the Cavs got Isaih Thomas, Crowder, Nets #1 pick
- Thread starter Obliviax
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Appears to be a trade that could work well for both teams. Upgrade for Boston at PG, and they have good young players (Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum) who will get more playing time. Brad Stephens is a good coach; I think Boston is a threat to win the East.
I am not a huge Kyrie fan. He is a liability on defense. He is one of the best finishers around the basket but that causes him to take a lot of punishment. As such, he's had some serious injuries. He's also a bit of a head case. He seems to be a nice guy, nobody seems to know what happened, but he could have played for one more championship in CLE and then moved on when James sunsets. Word is that this may be James' last year as he moves to LA and gets into entertainment producing. IIRC, Thomas was better one-on-one when the two teams played except for the playoffs when Thomas hurt his hip.
I like Thomas better than Irving, throw in the draft choice and I think Cleveland got the best of this trade by far.
I dont think they're just a threat, I think they're definitely going to do it. The Cavs just got worse. Isaiah can't play D (not that Kyrie is good on D either), and is coming off a hip injury. Celtics just upgraded at PG in my opinion, plus added a great SF in Heyward and a great scoring forward in Tatum. Since I think they were already close, this puts them over the top. Lebron will get the Cavs to the East finals, lose to the Celtics, and skip town for LA to join Lonzo, Paul George (the tampering thing will blow over), Ingraham, Randle, etc.
I am totally a Celtics fan and the Cavs killed it!!! Zizic will start at Center for them, 13/11/3 guy, Jae will start at 4 and play 3 when Lebron rests, IT will be the point and average equal or more than Irving.... The pick could easily be #1 in draft!!!
totally agree....totally. I think KI and IT are a wash (assuming IT is healthy from his hip injury). Both are great offensive players who are a liability on defense. (KI has an advantage and a disadvantage being surrounded by so much talent). But when you throw in Zizic, Crowder and a lottery pick....no brainer.
Celtic Cavs games are going to be epic next year.
From dealing from what was thought to be a weak position the Cavs nailed this one massively.
I can't believe they received two starters, a lottery pick and a likely good bench guy. IT had a PER higher than Irving last year. He was hurt but Ainge gave up a lot. Wasn't expecting that kind of trade at all.
I can't believe they received two starters, a lottery pick and a likely good bench guy. IT had a PER higher than Irving last year. He was hurt but Ainge gave up a lot. Wasn't expecting that kind of trade at all.
IT would make 2 maybe 3 good offensive plays and then commit two turnovers. Celtics played better without him against Clev.
Irving is a fair amount better than Thomas, IMO. But not enough to make up for Crowder and (especially) a No. 1 pick. Irving will be good with the Celtics, but the Cavs came out pretty well on this trade.
Seems the Warriors are still around. Any team in the east still needs to contend with the Warriors, Rockets, Spurs to win a championship. The West is stronger.
Terrible trade for Boston. One more thing, Irving isn't really a very good playmaker; he was quite the ball hog when LeBron was on the bench. Now that he (in his mind, at least) is top dog in Boston, I don't see this working out all that well for the Celtics.
Yea I have a feeling LeBron is going to make Iriving look like a fool.
That is not the guy I want trying to prove a point.
How the trade ultimately works out depends on if Cleveland can sign Thomas to a new deal and that draft pick, but I am very surprised that a team could get this kind of potential value when trading a malcontent who went public. That pretty much never happens, certainly not in the last 10 years in sports. If I'm Cleveland I am very happy with what is normally a disaster situation.
I have a feeling the price was arrived at because it was the main Eastern conference opponent for them. They could get the most from that one team, and that team only. It was a great move considering LeBron moving on after next year is almost a certainty. But if they can't re-sign Thomas, everything would then hinge on that draft pick.
It doesn't really matter anyway. No one is beating Golden State for the next 2 years minimum.
I have a feeling the price was arrived at because it was the main Eastern conference opponent for them. They could get the most from that one team, and that team only. It was a great move considering LeBron moving on after next year is almost a certainty. But if they can't re-sign Thomas, everything would then hinge on that draft pick.
It doesn't really matter anyway. No one is beating Golden State for the next 2 years minimum.
Well, I tend to disagree, and it will be interesting to see how it works out. Irving has superior ball handling and one-on-one skills, perhaps the best in the league. He can shoot 40% from 3-point and 90%+ from the FT line, as well as finish his drives in style. Not a great defender overall, but comes up with his share of steals; I believe he will respond well to coaching from Brad Stephens and be eager to fit in with other talent like Gordon Hayward and some of the younger Celtics.
The Celtics lost a lot of players from last years team to get Heyward and Irving. I think they are worse today with the moves they made. Who is going to play defense for them? Don't really understand what the Celtics are doing with this trade!
The formula for winning championships seems to be more about having a few great players than having a number of good players.
GS Warriors -- Curry, Klay Thompson, and now Durant
Cleveland -- to the finals and one championship; Irving, LeBron, and Kevin Love
The Celtics now have Irving, Gordon Hayward (close to being a great player), and have hopes for Jaylen Brown and/or Jayson Tatum; they're young and can grow together, while the very active GM Ainge and Coach Stephens put together the rest of the puzzle.
I think you're the only one I have seen that thinks this made the Cavs worse lol. Every NBA "expert" has said the Cavs crushed this deal.
Kyrie is going to fall off his flat earth in Boston.
Best reaction I saw on twitter...
Boston Reporter: "Hello, I'm from the Globe"
Kyrie: "Excuse me?
Boston Reporter: "Hello, I'm from the Globe"
Kyrie: "Excuse me?
I think one can argue the trade one on one; KI versus TI. TI has better stats, slightly. But KI played with LJ, does that help his stats or hurt his stats? One can argue that either way.
But when you throw in the #23 from last year and a probably lottery pick next year its a no brainer. I get KI has a longer contract, but he was leaving anyway and TI frees up salary cap space. If they do well, good chance the cavs get LBJ and TI for at least another year. IF not, they've got two first round picks and a lot of assets to trade (love and Thompson) to gain first round picks to complete the rebuild. It really gives the Cavs a) a chance at another crown in 2018 and b) the ability to rebuild quickly.
But when you throw in the #23 from last year and a probably lottery pick next year its a no brainer. I get KI has a longer contract, but he was leaving anyway and TI frees up salary cap space. If they do well, good chance the cavs get LBJ and TI for at least another year. IF not, they've got two first round picks and a lot of assets to trade (love and Thompson) to gain first round picks to complete the rebuild. It really gives the Cavs a) a chance at another crown in 2018 and b) the ability to rebuild quickly.
I doubt the celtics could have afforded Thomas after next year anyway. Hence they got some value for him this year. They are also reportedly very happy w Jason Tatum and the Cavs reportedly wanted him but Celts wouldn't deal. Plus, there's a rumor Thomas' hip won't make it through the year given he chose not to have surgery. Celtics are loaded with draft picks- they have he potential for like 9 first round picks over the next 4 years. Danny Ainge is a smart guy- and there's likely more to the backstory with Thomas' health.
OR- Adam Silver worked some backroom magic to keep Lebron happy, and keep Irving in the east so they have a storyline- Lebron vs Kyrie.
OR- Adam Silver worked some backroom magic to keep Lebron happy, and keep Irving in the east so they have a storyline- Lebron vs Kyrie.
Looks like a "win-win" to me.
The case for the Cavs has been explained quite well in this thread. No need to repeat.
As for the Celtics, in a game with five players and one ball, they had excess assets.
KI is going to be a better player than IT over the long term: bigger, stronger, younger, healthier with a skill set at least equal to IT, if not better, in the way the NBA game is played today.
Celtics had a real logjam with Crowder, Brown, Tatum. Not enough minutes available for all three. They kept the two young guns with the high ceilings.
Zizic is a project with potential. He will be great for Cleveland in a rebuild. The Celts are leaving rebuild mode and looking to win, so they have very few minutes available for projects.
The value of that draft pick falls if the Nets improve at all. Unless it is in the top 2 or 3 picks, the player selected likely would not have a big impact for the Celts in the next couple years. Look at all the draft picks they've stashed in Europe or simply cut in the last fews years.
Celtics still hold a boatload of draft picks they can use to either obtain one more star (A.Davis) or trade back up to the top of the draft if they see someone they really want.
In the end, the Celtics got the player they wanted without taking much of a hit on the floor. We will have to see how KI works to fit in and how well he plays before we can make a serious judgement on Boston's side of this deal.
The case for the Cavs has been explained quite well in this thread. No need to repeat.
As for the Celtics, in a game with five players and one ball, they had excess assets.
KI is going to be a better player than IT over the long term: bigger, stronger, younger, healthier with a skill set at least equal to IT, if not better, in the way the NBA game is played today.
Celtics had a real logjam with Crowder, Brown, Tatum. Not enough minutes available for all three. They kept the two young guns with the high ceilings.
Zizic is a project with potential. He will be great for Cleveland in a rebuild. The Celts are leaving rebuild mode and looking to win, so they have very few minutes available for projects.
The value of that draft pick falls if the Nets improve at all. Unless it is in the top 2 or 3 picks, the player selected likely would not have a big impact for the Celts in the next couple years. Look at all the draft picks they've stashed in Europe or simply cut in the last fews years.
Celtics still hold a boatload of draft picks they can use to either obtain one more star (A.Davis) or trade back up to the top of the draft if they see someone they really want.
In the end, the Celtics got the player they wanted without taking much of a hit on the floor. We will have to see how KI works to fit in and how well he plays before we can make a serious judgement on Boston's side of this deal.
If I disagree with the "experts" then I feel even better about it. You'll excuse me if I dont think landing a soon-to-be 29 year old 5'6" player on 1 year of a deal who can't defend and is coming off a hip injury that has ended careers is an upgrade over KI.
Yes, Crowder is an upgrade, but my opinion is based on my concern for what IT will be going forward.
Who is going to play defense?? Heyward is great defensively (top 10 in defensive win shares last year), Marcus Smart, Marcus Morris, Al Horford and Jaylen Brown are also really good on D. They're in great shape defensively.
I think the Cavs are now in a good position to not be the worst team in the league after this season, but I dont think they're going to be a contender again anytime soon. Thompson's contract is not going to land them a top 10 pick. And if you aren't top 10, then it becomes very likely you're only going to land role players, not centerpieces of title teams.
So after this season, they're going to lose LBJ, may lose IT, have one top 10 pick and then another pick not likely worth much in the first round as it'll be 28-30. Maybe they can add another 15-20 pick for Thompson. But go look at what the average 15-20 pick gets you and tell me how excited you are for the rebuild.
History tells us it takes multiple top 15 picks to build championship teams, and the Cavs only have 1 lined up right now.
2017 Warriors - Durant (2), Curry (7), Iguodola (9), Thompson (11)
2016 Cavs - Lebron (1), Irving (1), Love (5)
2015 Warriors - Curry (7), Iguodola (9), Thompson (11)
2014 Spurs - Duncan (1), Leonard (15)
2013 Heat - Lebron (1), Bosh (4), Allen (5), Wade (5)
and it goes on forever. Absent the absurdly well-coached Spurs, it appears it takes 3 or more top 11 picks. Hence Sam Hinkie's plan being the only real way to build a champion.
LINK: Trade might not happen.
Cavaliers are doing a "deep and thorough" review. Thomas' hip rehab might not be where they'd like it to be.
Cavaliers are doing a "deep and thorough" review. Thomas' hip rehab might not be where they'd like it to be.
