Women's Hoops

[GregInPitt]

I said the previous programs yo-yo'ed.

Biggest Y-Y win improvements / Y-Y win dropoffs

Dunn = +9 / -11
DeChellis = +12 / -16
Chambers = +11 / -2

Chambers has not yo-yo'ed. Now if he wins 11 or 16 fewer games this year than last, maybe it's time for a change,

So as long as he is consistently mediocre you would give him a pass.

There are some here with expectations of having a coach that can lead a program to better results. Such as making the NCAA tournament. It happens at other universities. And that is why after 8 years many believe that Pat has had more than a fair chance to take the program upwards, which to this point he has not.

 

[AWS1022]

That's true. But 6 of those 7 guys are either on campus right not (five on this team, four of them underclassmen) or yet to suit up for PSU (one), so the jury is out on how successful Chambers can be with his recruits.

8 years...the jury is definitely not out. This year will be worse than last and next year will be worse than this year....that’s not called progress.

 

[UncleLar]

So as long as he is consistently mediocre you would give him a pass.

There are some here with expectations of having a coach that can lead a program to better results. Such as making the NCAA tournament. It happens at other universities. And that is why after 8 years many believe that Pat has had more than a fair chance to take the program upwards, which to this point he has not.

If you can't see the improvement, you are blind and there is no sense in discussing this any further. I made my points and I documented evidence in support of those points. People with blinders have only one thing that they can hang their hats on, i.e. he hasn't made the NCAAs. That's narrow minded. .

 

[UncleLar]

He's had his recruits for 4 or 5 years....

Yup and the results have been there. He led the program to the second most wins in Penn State history last year. How can that not be seen as improvement?

 

[Waltwam]

OR maybe change the AD.

My question is this......was Rene Portland supported better or more than Coquese is now, by the administration?

 

[AWS1022]

Yup and the results have been there. He led the program to the second most wins in Penn State history last year. How can that not be seen as improvement?

And when they follow that up with a .500 season this year? How is that improvement? And then when they lose Reaves and Stevens next year, then what? Every coach we’ve had has had at least one good season, so how is this any different? Either he isn’t recruiting as well as everyone is saying he is or he doesn’t know how to coach what he’s recruited because the results just aren’t there.

 

[UncleLar]

And when they follow that up with a .500 season this year? How is that improvement? And then when they lose Reaves and Stevens next year, then what? Every coach we’ve had has had at least one good season, so how is this any different? Either he isn’t recruiting as well as everyone is saying he is or he doesn’t know how to coach what he’s recruited because the results just aren’t there.

Aha. I've figured it out. You have a crystal ball and already KNOW that they are going to have a .500 season. There's no reason for us to wait to see how they do because YOU KNOW. Not only that, your crystal ball also tells you that these recruits that he's bringing in aren't going to perform up to their rankings and we are going to collapse below .500 again next year. I can't argue with you because I don't have a crystal ball that can tell me the future.

If we go under .500 this year and next, you won't find me arguing that we should keep Chambers. But you sure aren't going to get me to say we should fire him now because you KNOW he's going to be under .500 for the next two years. That's patently absurd.

 

[UncleLar]

8 years...the jury is definitely not out. This year will be worse than last and next year will be worse than this year....that’s not called progress.

So says your crystal ball.

 

[AWS1022]

Aha. I've figured it out. You have a crystal ball and already KNOW that they are going to have a .500 season. There's no reason for us to wait to see how they do because YOU KNOW. Not only that, your crystal ball also tells you that these recruits that he's bringing in aren't going to perform up to their rankings and we are going to collapse below .500 again next year. I can't argue with you because I don't have a crystal ball that can tell me the future.

If we go under .500 this year and next, you won't find me arguing that we should keep Chambers. But you sure aren't going to get me to say we should fire him now because you KNOW he's going to be under .500 for the next two years. That's patently absurd.

They lost to DePaul and Bradley. They’re 0-2 in the Big already. It doesn’t take a crystal ball to realize they will be around .500 for the year. I said at the beginning of the year they would be down due to losing Carr and Garner...that didn’t take a crystal ball, it took common sense. Just like it doesn’t take a crystal ball to realize losing Stevens and Reaves will be a step backwards. So you want to give him two more years if he’s under .500? Hell, just give him a lifetime contract. I thought this was an 8 year rebuild not a 10 or 12 year rebuild.

 

[AWS1022]

So says your crystal ball.

If you think they’re going to win as many games this year as last year then I certainly don’t want to go gambling with you. Again, it doesn’t take a crystal ball to see that, just common sense.

 

[BlueBand]

Recruiting for one. We've established recruiting bases in both Philly and, to a lesser extent, the DMV. The quality of the kids who are visiting and who are signing have both been upgraded considerably. Without looking it up, I'd say that Chambers has probably landed around seven of the ten highest ranked recruits that we've signed in the last 20 years.

Sustained results for another. Chambers hasn't seen any of the yo-yo type results that we've gotten in the past. Things were too much hit and miss from year to year under the prior regimes. Chambers squads have shown continued improvement.

People only remember the good, they forget the bad. Yes, Dunn had that Sweet 16 run (which wasn’t so much him, but that’s another topic that I’ve written about before). And that Sweet 16 team finished with only 21 wins. How do you get to the Sweet 16 and only win 21 games? They also had a losing record in the B1G that year (7-9). It was a very strange season. But he followed it up with two consecutive 7-21 seasons in his 7th and 8th years. He also had losing seasons after his other NCAA team, and his NIT team.

DeChellis followed up his two NIT teams with losing records the following years, going 11-19 and 11-20. He bolted after his only NCAA team, ostensibly because he knew what he had coming back on the roster (not much), and he would be on the hot seat going forward. Which is what Chambers inherited.

So, we’d have one good year (by Penn State standards), then slide back again to the back of the pack.

Chambers has been much more consistent. Consistently average, but consistent. Recruiting has improved immeasurably, which has probably helped keep the program from experiencing those hellacious slides backwards. But yeah, he needs to start winning more over the next couple of years with those players. I was off the bandwagon last year, but he won me back by the end of the year. Remember, in early/mid January we looked like shit at times and even many diehards were calling for his head. There was the pre-Xmas Rider game debacle. But they turned it around and won the NIT, and had the 2nd most wins in school history (26, the record is 27). So let’s see if they can get it turned around with all of these freshmen and sophomores that are playing, before writing them off.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

In Rene Portland's 27 years at Penn State, the team was never more than 2 years removed from an NCAA Tournament bid. Now in her 12th season, Coquese Washington is 4 years removed from the last bid in 2014, and this season appears to be headed for year 5. In the past 4 years she is 55-70 (24-44 Big Ten). The program under her tenure has reached a point where I seldom watch games and when I do, I rarely last more than 10 or 15 minutes before moving on. To be honest, I really don't care if she stays or goes. It appears from the tepid response to this thread, not many others do either.

I think we get Diane Lane to be the head coach. Interest will indeed pick up. Something will surely pick up. Agree, Gambit?

 

[Hartzie]

If you think they’re going to win as many games this year as last year then I certainly don’t want to go gambling with you. Again, it doesn’t take a crystal ball to see that, just common sense.

You don't know shit. You can predict but you don't know. Let's see how it plays out. The is no doubt he has recruited better than his predecessors. I'm been following MBB since Johnny Bach days and this is the best we have recruited since then. I'm willing to give him a bit more rope.

 

[RGWhirly]

3) Jeff Kampersal - the Girl's Hockey coach, he is 2 or 3 years in….. Girl's Icers have been consistently Blah

There is a huge difference already on the ice just in their play and attitude. Of course you have to actually go to the games to see it. This is going to turn out to be a home run hire. He is in his second season and has a great staff in place that the young ladies trust and believe in. This is a 180 from the last asshat coach.

 

[manatree]

In general, I feel that any coach hired at Penn State should have some sort of proven track record as a head coach at another Div I college. Washington was only an assistant previously.

When Portland left, I thought PSU should have went after Dawn Staley who had turned the Temple program around while still playing in the WNBA for her first five years. That's a heck of a multi-taksing performance. Being a Philly native, Staley might have been open to staying close to home. Instead she was hired by South Carolina a year later and she has turned them into one of the best programs outside of Storrs. Huge missed opportunity.

 

[AWS1022]

You don't know shit. You can predict but you don't know. Let's see how it plays out. The is no doubt he has recruited better than his predecessors. I'm been following MBB since Johnny Bach days and this is the best we have recruited since then. I'm willing to give him a bit more rope.

How much more rope? And I know if we can’t beat DePaul and Bradley, we’re not going to beat many of the top teams in the Big. Brady Hoke didn’t recruit too badly at Michigan...but he got fired because he couldn’t win.

 

[UncleLar]

How much more rope? And I know if we can’t beat DePaul and Bradley, we’re not going to beat many of the top teams in the Big. Brady Hoke didn’t recruit too badly at Michigan...but he got fired because he couldn’t win.

Your crystal ball probably said the very same thing last year when they lost to Rider. Yet they managed to knock off Ohio State three times.

This team can play some pretty good defense (they are ranked #10 in the country in defensive efficiency). That will keep them in games against anyone in this league and they will most definitely knock off a couple of the top teams when their shots are falling.

 

[Media Fan]

What was it, ‘98 or so, 12-4 in the Conf., visiting my daughter and going to a FULL BJC to watch game against MSU. Booth, a very unheralded player from Columbus , OH area- he goes on to play a dozen or so years in the nba; Danny Earl and Pete Lisicky- two almost local kids. Bruce Parkhill, the best of that lot for me.
Seems like a century ago. Yes, I would agree we are better than the horror that was Dunn. Here’s hoping we get better yet, even if it takes another decade or so.
Am I correct when I say I remember a story about a10 year plan that Pat Chambers brought with him; if so, can I get a copy.
One good thing is that the team is moving in a positive direction; the person coaching that other team has destroyed completely what was a very good tradition - and she has done it in fewer than 10 years- there’s hope for all us incompetents that we too can keep our jobs for many years without our boss saying anything. The ad should be reprimanded by someone for her wanton disregard. Sure are different standards in that case.

 

[GregInPitt]

If you can't see the improvement, you are blind and there is no sense in discussing this any further. I made my points and I documented evidence in support of those points. People with blinders have only one thing that they can hang their hats on, i.e. he hasn't made the NCAAs. That's narrow minded. .

That's your opinion. But the reality is that an NCAA P5 BB coach is judged by his ability to lead his program to the NCAA tournament. And in that regard Pat is a failure through 5 years. If you can't see that, you are blind.

You defend Pat's tenure as BB coach like he is your brother-in-law.........

 

[GregInPitt]

Your crystal ball probably said the very same thing last year when they lost to Rider. Yet they managed to knock off Ohio State three times.

This team can play some pretty good defense (they are ranked #10 in the country in defensive efficiency). That will keep them in games against anyone in this league and they will most definitely knock off a couple of the top teams when their shots are falling.

Yep, managed to beat OSU 3 time. And still managed to lose to some suck teams. An indication to anyone without blinders that Pat has assembled the talent to win against good teams, but that Pat does not have the leadership and game day coaching to lead a team to the consistency required to finish games and put together the team resume to reach the NCAA tournament. Time for a change.

 

[fairgambit]

I think we get Diane Lane to be the head coach. Interest will indeed pick up. Something will surely pick up. Agree, Gambit?

Good news/Bad news. It was a brilliant idea, so I called Diane about it and while she said she had no interest in being a basketball coach (bad news), she would be willing to be the AD (good news)!

 

[bison13]

It's so funny how the defenders of PC go in circles to try and make their case. You know like saying he is the best recruiter ever at PSU and showing all of the top recruits he has brought in in comparison to other coaches but then say it takes time to build the program. Do they realize that by saying he has been bringing in the best talent ever at PSU that means he should have more wins than he does? He's been bring in the best for years now so it has been plenty of time.

Is the team more talented, of course it is, you made your point, he has upgraded the talent. But by virtue of that he should not lose games to the inferior teams that he does.

I like Pat, but there are just so many basic game day strategy things that baffle myself and others on a game by game basis. So it's not about FT like last game, or lack of offense other than 3 pointers vs someone else and bad game planning of post/post doubles in another and consistently not getting 2 for 1's, or bad substitutions etc. Its the fact that as his team has grown more talented he and his staff have not grown one single bit in game day strategy.

There is still time this year. I still think they can win 10-11 BIG games and the next 4 non conference. But they also could lose all four of them. It's a huge hole, if he can get the wins I mentioned above and get to 18 in the regular season i think they could still sneak in at 18-12 regular season if they win 2 in the BIG tourney. If not, then he should pack his bags.

 

[GregInPitt]

It's so funny how the defenders of PC go in circles to try and make their case. You know like saying he is the best recruiter ever at PSU and showing all of the top recruits he has brought in in comparison to other coaches but then say it takes time to build the program. Do they realize that by saying he has been bringing in the best talent ever at PSU that means he should have more wins than he does? He's been bring in the best for years now so it has been plenty of time.

Is the team more talented, of course it is, you made your point, he has upgraded the talent. But by virtue of that he should not lose games to the inferior teams that he does.

I like Pat, but there are just so many basic game day strategy things that baffle myself and others on a game by game basis. So it's not about FT like last game, or lack of offense other than 3 pointers vs someone else and bad game planning of post/post doubles in another and consistently not getting 2 for 1's, or bad substitutions etc. Its the fact that as his team has grown more talented he and his staff have not grown one single bit in game day strategy.

There is still time this year. I still think they can win 10-11 BIG games and the next 4 non conference. But they also could lose all four of them. It's a huge hole, if he can get the wins I mentioned above and get to 18 in the regular season i think they could still sneak in at 18-12 regular season if they win 2 in the BIG tourney. If not, then he should pack his bags.

Well said. And since he has had 8 years to improve his game day strategies and management, is any sane fan really expecting him to turn on a switch and develop those skills tonight?

Sadly, No...

And even the cutie that Gambit (and I) would like to bring in to replace Sandy could conclude that.....sadly.....

 

[GregInPitt]

Good news/Bad news. It was a brilliant idea, so I called Diane about it and while she said she had no interest in being a basketball coach (bad news), she would be willing to be the AD (good news)!

Can PSU afford her? I hope so!!

 

[fairgambit]

Can PSU afford her? I hope so!!

Probably not, but since she and I are so close, she's willing to seriously consider it.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Good news/Bad news. It was a brilliant idea, so I called Diane about it and while she said she had no interest in being a basketball coach (bad news), she would be willing to be the AD (good news)!

Whatever she wants!

 

[AWS1022]

Your crystal ball probably said the very same thing last year when they lost to Rider. Yet they managed to knock off Ohio State three times.

This team can play some pretty good defense (they are ranked #10 in the country in defensive efficiency). That will keep them in games against anyone in this league and they will most definitely knock off a couple of the top teams when their shots are falling.

Yes, my crystal ball said they would t make the tournament when they lost to Rider and it was right. And they knocked off OSU three times but no one else of note...sounds more like an OSU problem.

Let me know when their shots are falling. It happens so rarely that it’s hard to count on it.